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I’ve seen the figures 4.2% given for chareidi growth rates in Israel. (Growth rates as it pertains to shidduchim may differ slightly from growth rates on a society wide demographic basis, being as the only real numbers that are to be compared are the number of children born in one year to the number of children born X number of years later. For example, if 90% of a society gets married, and the statistical growth rate is 4%, the actual relevant growth rate is actually 10% higher than that figure, being as the people that never got married drag the numbers down but don’t actually have any relevance to the number of people entering the quote unquote shidduchim pool, which are the kids from the families that did get married.) The number for Ultra Orthodox population growth rates in the USA according to some studies has been pegged at about 3.6%. In a vacuum, given the 5% birth rate gender disparity, this would call for a 17 month age gap on average to even out the numbers. This is in fact approximately the average age gap in Europe and Israel, and there is much less of a perceived crisis there. In communities like the Chassidim in North America where the girls are on average the same age or a bit older, there are too many boys (due to the birth rate disparity).
You bring up a good point with OTD rates (boys being more likely to be disabled or deceased is not so relevant to our community). It’s hard to get numbers, but i have seen statistics that a solid 1%-3% more boys (which is a huge chunk) are what would be considered “OTD” than girls. Again, this depends on definitions of OTD.
There are plenty of other factors to be taken into account, such as developmental delays, personality disorders, and major mental health disorders, and what the prevalence rates are for each gender, and much more. There’s a myriad of different factors that need to be gone through. All I’m saying is that an overly simplistic “There’s 5% population growth, so for every 100 boys born in 2000 there’s 115 girls born in 2003, and that’s the answer to why there are issues with shidduchim”, is ignorant of both the actual math and the plethora of other factors at play that someone seeking to drive meaningful change would need to investigate.
GH: Not sure what you define as a marriage or a family, but I’d set the bar a bit higher than just engagement in procreational relations. There are plenty of people that share core values and life visions that would make them compatible to other people, were they willing to learn to respect others that may have minor differences than them, be willing to put in the work to communicate (as is necessary in every marriage), and not be hung up on their preconceived notions on exactly which boxes a spouse needs to check off to be considered a respectable shidduch (whether it’s familial wealth, prestige, parental employments, prominent pedigree, number of years learning, exact heights or physical profiles, exact acceptable occupations, exact backgrounds, or so much more).
When hopes and aspirations are code words and romanticizations of unrealistic entitlements and expectations, then yes, people should grow up and be ready to work themselves to build a life together and to learn to respect others instead of waiting for everything to be delivered on a silver platter.
Physical and intellectual attraction is also overblown. You need to find the person pleasant looking and to spend time with, and can’t think of them as revolting or an idiot, and you need to be able to respect them. However, you shouldn’t need a model or a trophy spouse, neither physically nor intellectually, nor should they need a prestigious position or to have a venerated reputation as top of the line in whatever society in your circles aggrandizes. He or she doesn’t need to be the king or queen of the world to be king or queen of your world.
The age gap theory is complex and nuanced, and needs to take into account a myriad of factors. A simple statement, for example, of something like the below, is factually incorrect on multiple accounts, and also fails to take multiple crucial factors into consideration. “The math is very imple and you can do it yourself. If the population grows every year by some percentage, say 5% for example, then in 2021 if there were 100 boys and 100 girls born (assuming approximately the same of both), so in 2022 there will be 105 boys and 105 girls born and in 2023 110 or more boys and girls each born. If then the boys and girls marry at close in age there are equal numbers for all. If the boys from 2021 marry the girls born in 2025 – there are more girls so not enough matches.”
This writer only mentioned 2 factors – population growth rates (5%), and male to female birth ratios (1:1). Both numbers mentioned were completely wrong. The math was correct, but the data was quite wrong. In addition, there are a large number of other factors that would need to be taken into account to factor for how many boys of a given age group would be compatible to marry the number of girls in the given age group.It is hard to avoid the fact that there will be a degree of a mathematical imbalance. However, a careful calculation of the numbers will still reveal a marked discrepancy between the differences that should be there and the reality of the situation the way people are perceiving it. It would appear that there are many more factors than simply age and demographics to be taken into account.
A more accurate statement may be “There is a noted discrepancy between the particular profile boy being sought by girls of a given demographic and age group, and the availability of the number of boys fitting that profile”. However, there may be a large number of boys available that do not fit this exact criteria that are eminently marriageable and would make wonderful husbands and fathers that are being written off. The solution may well be an adjustment of expectations, rather than a changing of the system to try to satisfy these unrealistic expectations.
The Cherem deRabbenu Gershom conversation is a bit far fetched too. There are much simpler answers to the crisis, that would require a bit of maturity instead of a complete transformation of the marital and familial structure of our society. If we can’t convince litvishe girls to be willing to date wonderful chassidish boys, or various other great profiles that they refuse to consider, do you really think they’d be willing to date as a second wife? They would need to really be sold on the status symbol of the prestigious husband to be willing to be a second wife as long as they can be associated with his illustrious brand.
In general, that underlies a major factor in the shidduch crisis which is 100% real – that people are looking for a certain picture perfect image that they consider societally acceptable and pleasing, as opposed to a spouse that they can have a marriage and a family with. 40 days before conception, the Bas Kol may have delineated the spouse, but it didn’t necessarily include the whole package deal that isn’t necessary for a successful marriage but people still insist on. When we’re looking to solve this crisis, the entitlement and education crisis may be the real core issue to work on.
23 year old male law student? Depends what particular demographic you’re targeting, but should be a desirable catch with plenty of options. I would be very surprised if he doesn’t have lots of great girls to date.
@saulred Can you please email me? You sound like an amazing person, and perfect for someone I know. Email address is aw10146 at gmail dot com . Thanks. (Hope mods let this through.)
Any way to contact someone from here? Either via PM or a mod. Thanks.
So anyone who was brave enough to go for anger management and admit it is assumed to be a sociopath?
I think this is an exceedingly small group (boys supporting their family), and there is usually a story behind them. However, I think that this theoretical group contains the most eligible boys for marriage, being as they have a mature outlook of life and dealing with its challenges. Your average working boy doesn’t fit into those category, however. I’m not saying anything against them; this thread just isn’t discussing them. Any boy that fits into the category that we are discussing should be more than happy to go back to learning, if the girl had a decent job and he doesn’t have to support his family.
Now if you would have left that half a shot there, in three years you would have had Glenfidditch 18.
How can anyone with yiras shamayim shower more than once a week? Think of the bittul torah! Try it, it won’t kill you. (Although telling someone to try it might constitute trying to figure out someones identity, being as it will be pretty noticeable that the person didn’t shower in a week; and would therefore violate cr policy.) You would be surprised how many purple take two or three showers a week, with no one the wiser.
Our aveiroz have a lot more to do with the equation than the political atmosphere.
From lag baomer to yom yerushalayim is a pretty long date. You may as well just say to move there, and name every mitzvah hanoheges baaretz; instead of yom yerushalayim, of all things!
My teacher always called me “Quiet!”.
35 mph isn’t quite speeding like a meshugana. And people shouldn’t be walking in middle of the street. 25 mph is excessively slow. Almost every city in America has local speed limits around 35 mph. So unless you’re calling them all “speeding tow trucks on a rain slicked highway” (Can you imagine someone going so fast on a highway? 35 whole miles per hour?!?!?), calm down the rhetoric.
Fifteen more hours (to file your extensions).
The exercise is not supposed to help you introduce yourself to others; as much as to introduce yourself to yourself. It raises self awareness when you have to think what your main essence is.
What about women who’s marriages are failing but stay with them anyways? How are those numbers? (In general, married people do better socioeconomically than divorced people. I don’t know how that impacts the statistic.)
Three are dozens in Brooklyn. Just search for the listing, someone made a compilation. (I think I saw it in the newspaper, I’m assuming its online.) I usually do it by one on avenue L and east tenth. There’s a prominent spot on avenue O and east tenth area. Sign in front and multiple trees. All this info is also in the listing, so I know I can post it.
Ahh. I love witch hunters. Easy way to lose your olam haba in one shot; just hang someones picture on the wall. I wouldn’t bid much on this persons olam haba if it was on Ebay.
To be fair, the mini-meter system is the best thing to happen for fighting parking tickets in a long time. (Good things tend not to happen when it comes to fighting tickets).
No Meir Kahana loyalists mentioned nuclear bombs yet? And to think that Boruch Marzel almost made it into the Knesset.
Neither do I, that’s what I wrote. 🙂 I tried to write rules, but my keyboard knew better. Sorry.
All Jews have an equal status as Jews, regardless of level of religious observance.
Its actually in the cr rule thread stickied on top; that you should check if there is an existing thread in the subject before starting a new one. So your question is really who listens to tiles. To that, I have no answer.
If you are ever in a situation in which you ate considered a mandated reporter and halacha doesn’t allow reporting, you are mechuyav to leave the country. Quite a nisayon.
Chess isn’t easy or hard. It depends on who your opponent is.
If you report someone to the police in a case which you are not entitled to do so, the din is hashkem lehargo. It doesn’t say that about many things. The role of the government is not to provide justice, but to protect society. If no protection to society would come from reporting this guy, is forbidden to report it. (I can already hear the next poster saying that prosecution protects society by dissuading other potential wrongdoers. For that, you have no right to use this guy as a korbon.) Remember, you are gambling with his life (and yours, being as you have a Din Rodef.) That’s not something to play games with.
Writersoul: my grandparents did.
ZD: do you want zahava growing up with unlimited unfiltered internet access?
Zd: that’s the third time you tried to divert the thread from the issue at hand. Three strikes and you’re out.
Boruch mechayeh hameisim. Welcome back kj chusid. (I see you got a revised subtitle.)
We have a weird minhag on Pesach not to call people crazy for their chumros. The rest of the year, anyone more machmir is fanatical and crazy, and anyone more meikil is a goy.
For that price, you can donate $10,000 to the needy for Pesach and register on craigslist. You may not find your soul mate you were looking for to build a bayis neeman beyisrael, but you’ll probably have fun. Or you can deal with a real person that actually knows what both sides are aiming for in life. The fact that their goals match on paper means nothing. All five people to describe yeshivish, and you’ll get five different descriptions. A search engine just doesn’t cut it.
Yiftach bedoro kemoshe bedoro.
There’s an old saying in yiddish (I’ll say it in English) “She says the daughter but means the mother”. Everyone knows that the problem is as bad for adults as teenagers and kids, but it’s more comfortable to talk about the kids.
The haggadah is talking about a missionary. First save what you have, them fix what’s broken. Your “ben rashah” today has nothing to do with believing in Hashem or not. His problem is emotional pain, so that’s what contemporary gedolim tell us to work on. The concept of a maskil is almost non existent in our generation. People in kiruv will say the same thing. People don’t become religious because they rationally decided that there must be a Hashem. They do it because they are looking for happiness.
Yekke2: you’re not the first to define frum like that. The tziddukim already did thousands of years ago. In more modern times, that description was taken up by the Christians. Just believe and you’ll be fine. And don’t worry about those crazy rabbis. They’re still living in the dark Ashes, and don’t know that things have changed. Just believe in god, and love everyone, and j—s will save your soul.
This whole discussion is ridiculous, because regardless if a smartphone is a problem in theory, it takes a moron to say that it’s not a problem in reality. Ask anyone involved in marriage counseling how much of a role phones play in sholom bayis issues. Look around next time you are in shul during the week and see how many people are using them. Same thing for any event. How about by family time? And this is without discussing what they’re doing. Just look at how addictive it is, even if its for purely innocent things. And the comparison to a car was also rather unintelligent. I think that is self explanatory. However, anything that is said against the internet over here will automatically elicit a defensive rather than rational response, being as every single person here is on the internet (and not for business). If its a choice between you being wrong or the rabbonim being wrong, and you already decided that you’re not listening to them, you may as well call them delusional idiots, to ratify yourself (in your own eyes, at least), why you’re not listening to them. Anyone on drugs says the same about the police and the doctors. You have plenty of company.
Being as the crowd in the CR are people using the internet for recreational purposes, you’re automatically going to get a slightly biased opinion. You’re not getting a real cross section off the frum community.
Someone who believes in the sanctity of Torah and mitzvos over anything else, who tries to fulfill its dictums, and who believes in the worthiness of our gedolim.
What do you call frum?
Health: I apologize. I didn’t realize you gave for safety courses. Of course they’re essential. I have no time, but I’ll be happy to give you a donation.
???? ??. I don’t think anyone knew that until you told us. Thank you for enlightening us that smoking can kill. It might even be assur, according to some poskim. I’ll bet none of you knew that.
In line with their religion,I think the Arabs are right for killing people. However, being that their religion makes them a life threatening danger to society ,I think we are right in killing them first.
What happened to kjchusid? He went zionist?
Its a 24/6 computer. People are on them all day and night.
Reb Yitxchok Hutner was makpid that people eat gebrokts.