twisted

I posted this before, I am sure one of our archivists will post the link. I know a thing or two about chickens, and the chicken industry, and myself do not eat chicken due the high risk (IMHO) of nevela and trefa inherent in the modern processing realities. There is another level to this beyond the issue of how it plays out in the public square. The earliest mentions of the minhag reflect that your kaparrah was your local bird, in your courtyard, kitchen or yard. Your children might had given it a name. It was shechted in the home or very nearby. It was a much more personal experience, and virtually no Jews lived in anything tha could be compared to a metropolitan area> Thus you have the negative street publicity, and two disconnects from “the way it was” just considering the historical data that we have.

Another disconnect eludes most because we are for the most part, very urbanized, yet unschooled in finer working mechanisms of the gashmuis world. To most, chicken is generally a pink thing wrapped in cellophane bagged and boxed frozen. Unless you are buying from a breeder, a hobby farmer or a hatchery, there are no tarnegol zachar to be had commercially. They are all culled to be wings and fryers at two weeks development, before the bird matures, becomes a nasty character to deal with and with stringy and tough flesh. It is a kapporah in itself to manhandle a grown rooster.

But non are to be had, the operators are getting truckloads of pullets diverted from the trip to the processor, and often truckloads of spent laying hens that generally get gassed and batch processed into not for human consumption protein meal. These latter are the shmatta looking birds for whom the box and trip on the truck are not too different than than the regular inhumane way they lived as caged battery layers.

Summation: How irecognizable can our practice be from the original minhag, how many of the details are essential elements how much can change before we can rationally and emotionally can abandoon a minhag that is so distanced.? How long before we can say it is ok for a zecher of the minhag? When do the disconnects and public liabilities exceed the benefit?

I will be sparse with the detail to maintain anonymity. I flipped my NY home for an apt in Jerusalem at the top of the NY bubble, and that at least according to the taxi drivers makes me a millionaire. I could not make that move today, but I suppose it give me a head start. I was able to transfer my business, a trade, but yes, at much less money, and serving in a poor (hareidi/kollel)area makes it even harder. Competition is fierce, but excellence sells. as does yashrus, and the american concept of customer service. I have found a niche of fixing other’s shoddy work.

You must have agile language skills. I had a vast vocabulary from my broad learning, and did not attend ulpan, sometimes I speak effortlessly and sometimes haltingly, I don’t feel ashamed, and I generally make myself understood. Because I am a hot commodity, most put up with it.

We felt education costs, healthcare cost (nothing drastic b”h), bituach leumi and taxes not as daunting, albeit with two local incomes at starting level and only city tax as our housing cost.

We did the very discouraged move, of coming with two pre- teens. They were both educationally challenges and “hard nuts to crack”. They both were bounced from school to school many times, today they are b’h almost well adjusted productive members of society. I suspect they inherited my exceptional resilience. The most slimy disgusting bureaucrats we’ve encountered were in the educational field.

Religion: My two youngest are not on the same page as I, but I think back two where they would might have fallen had we stayed in chu”l. My community there had a large tribe of seriously OTDed youth on parade in lurid detail. Did we save them? I don’t know, and I don’t know how they will ripen. I know that spiritual legacy goes missing, but it doesn’t hide well, and it doesnt hide for long.

I, as American Yeshivish, not living in Bet Shemesh, I did not fit in tightly anywhere. I hobnob among the DL and the kollel crowd, I crave intellectual company I find some approachable yechidim in the DL, less so in the Haredi.

Tachlis, it is up to:

emuna and bitachon,

a hard core belief that you belong here,

being able to bend and get along while holding fast to who you are

a plausible way to make a modest living. you can not too much research.

having some or all family here.

speak Ivrit now, and ramp it before or as you arrive. The farther you move from the major population centers, the more the language barrier will loom. though there are some small enclaves that are frum and somewhat english speaking, but for employment, you must have Ivrit, and some arabic is also helpful.

Prospective community and prospective housing. With children, the right schooling trumps community and housing. This is not such an issue in the cities.

Be open minded about changing profession. Academics and desk jobbers have dim prospects of continuing such careers. I know one professor doing janitorial work, he is deliriously happy here.

All the negative chatter, the real and the imagined. can be filtered through the idea that the comfort level in chu”l is likely to dip, as it has for our brothers in France. The level of French spoken on the street is increasing.

It may be that kibbutz galuyot will hybridize us to be what we should be. The wonderful eidlekiet of americans could be an essential ingredient. This is Eretz Hatvi, there is place for all of us, and ????? ???? ??? ?????

It is the curse of the ????? that the land under your feet shifts. Think of all the built capital of former Jewish strongholds such as Haarlem, Lower Manhatten, South Queens (Jamaica,Laurelton, st Albans). All my adult years in NY (been gone ten years) my grandparents’ Little Jerusalem of Brownsville was empty grass lands.

“minhag” can refer to the format of following a Halacha, as here, and there are more than two ways. In rishonim there is mention of ma’aleh u’morid, molich u’mavee. There is also chiluk with associated waving or shakes to the x/y axes moves, is it one move or three moves, one move and three shakes, or the combination? I have heard of a concept of being yotze all deos. Not a nussach issue by any means. Hag sameach y’all

I was taught, in all things do drisha vahakira to seek emes la’amito. And we see the “seal of HKB”H is emes, so that emes is the glue of this creation. Of course there are places where one need not dig, and there are Midrashim that indicate that truth was somewhat handicapped in the course of Creation. This is not lost on certain voices within hareididom, who would have us believe we are not to be trusted to see, hear, or think certain things.

“Letting looxe” beore the “mad” rush just cost us a life in Yerushalayim.

I would not submit to another din torah unless the dayanim are known to me and the baal din, that they should have some busha and not do what I sas a BD do in brooklyn. The system is indeed broken in the private sector batei din. I have had even worse luck in EY, if you are small potatoes, or a “headache” they will chase you away.

I think this is the yagon va’anacha that we daven to be saved from in bracah hasheeva shofteinu.

The way the geometric progression of parentage works, we are all, or mostly related to those few legendary women who functioned as “behind the curtain” roshei yeshiva. They gifted us our smarts.

+++ for the mismatched socks from a kindred sock mismatcher. In seriousness, it is foolish to rely on chitzonius as much as we do, and neglect sensitivities and mussar that are the internal mark of a refined human being. Twas at a chareidi run chareidi serving supermarket in chareidi area Thursday, and crossing my sight plane were people attired just so properly, yet engaged in behavior that disqualifies them for edus. I try to not be judgmental, and to have a positive view of my fellows, but I was having a really bad day.

Goose stuffing was flagged in the Ramo and Shach in lamed gimmel, as a safek nekuvas haveshet from the scarring that is common to this practice.

Yes there are halachic issues, and hashkafa issues as well. The commercialization of meat production can lead to real problems. If you look real close, or read too much, you can begin to distrust mass produced kashrus. The Bavli in Chullin makes the points that would rule out casual meat consumption in a derech eretz sense. You also might want to consider that an animal designed to eat grass gets poisoned and sick from grain based diets, and needs to be medicated and stuck with needles to make it to market.

HaLeiVi, it might be wise to consider the weather, and the zmanim

The sheidim can be regarded as extra- terrestrial, as the terrestrial world has dimension. Science errs in seeking only water and oxygen based systems.

not that I am an opera star, but in my leining career, I used such an artistic azlahgeresh, that an educated tzibbur would wait for it without interrupting.

1;00 chatzot was 12:40, with some elderly, a half hour walk home, and I made it to the netz minyan.

derech agav, i saw a entry in Kovetz Hamoadim, claiming that chametz is when the dough relaxes (bitul hitnagdut temicha in the ori ginal). With our modern grains, a 5-10 minute knead causes the proteins to get stringy, that forms a more pliant product. This theory eases the understanding of some halacha, but it does match up with others. It might be that the lafa type matza is kneaded for longer that a standard matza. Back to the question, is it not possible that they did not have the ten minutes, have you never been short ten minutes that you cannot relate?

Moadim lesimcha! As a veteran home matza baker, and running low on teeth, I thoroughly searched the early Ashkenaz poskim for clues and for validation of doing soft matzos. I experimented with chametz, and consulted some local expertise for shimmush. I did three soft matzos in my erev Pesach baking, At yaschatz, it passed the “string test” and at korech my core of lettuce was actually wrapped in a two inch square (or little smaller) kezayis of a a softie. I found it sort of tasteless, missing the toasted whole wheat taste of my cracker matzos, and yes they go stale. I won’t try it again until I master salt free tortilla making.

Haleivi, what pic in what haggada? Likely not me, I am sort of camera shy.

Taka: Don’t assume. My 100% whole wheat is medium dark brown, like coffee w/o enough milk, and with orange flecks of wheat germ here and there. Yes, it is much tastier (fresh ground flour) but really difficult to work with. My guess is that the industry standard is 10 or 20 percent max. Certain niceties cannot be mass produced.

Mobico: re, “The whole issue of mass Shmura Mazto production is not simple at all”

Indeed, if you really want an apprecieation, visit the halacha, and see the poskim that even before advent of the matza machine, they saw the commercialization of matza as a great tragedy. Dozens of details in halacaha indicate that it was written for the home baker, or small, community op or chabura. The greatest tragedy is that there is no rolling back the clock and the halachic skill sets that were once universal are all but lost in the larger public.

takamamash, it is not really cheaper if you are living in shekels, and it was davka in EY where I saw stuff that made my hair stand up and my stomach lurch. I no longer use any commercial hand matzos owing to that experience.

I remember crushing the poppy in a mortar and pestle as a child. It was then sweetened and stirred into a stiff filer. The pleasant smell is forever embedded in my mind. And yes, i am past the half century mark.

as ancestry works as backward geometric progression, all lines must cross eventually, and as we are a rather inbred bunch, those common lines merge sooner. We are all cousins of one distance or another.