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McCain was not much better … there is so much to dump on the Obama administration, why choose something so stupid?
1) As long as people are still saying “this wasn’t about race” the entire election was based on race
2) 0 out of 10 … if Jimmy Carter likes him, then we have a problem
areivimzehlazeh … an example please?
torahtziva … why is it muttar then?
oomis … if credit is given, it is called a cover, and the general idea is that it is ok to do
oomis … why would shabbos be any different?
Joseph …
1. Would you appear before a Judge in Court on behalf of a client in anything but a suit?
2. Should you appear before G-d in a Synagogue in anything but a suit?
The fact remains that we don’t. I am not saying it is right or wrong … as stated before, I have no problem wearing jeans, and have long learned that judging people based on what clothes they wear is pointless. However, philosophically, I think that every method of dress has its time and place, and there are few things (this is a recurring point in all of my arguments, in case you haven’t noticed) that are black and white Assur/muttar … discretion is the key
areivimzehlazeh … this is a honest and sincere question.
please explain to me where you feel i overstepped my bounds and how? I try my best not to
In Azi’s defense, he never said there was nothing wrong with biblical criticism … as someone who has studied it on my own, I can confidently tell you that it’s foundations are weak and its proofs non-rigorous.
However, if in fact, Rabbi Solovetchik did allow it to be taught, clearly he had a reason, to which I am not sure
Full Disclosure: I wear jeans, so my posts will be slightly biased
Clearly, I do not have a problem with jeans.
Here is why:
1) why is it different then any other type of legwear?
2) In many cases, it is simply more practical than khakis/dress pants
3) why not?
Sorry … i meant gratuitous personal insults …
As well, I gave Joseph a way out, but still requested that if he can, to justify his claim.
Joseph, I am not certain that you are correct. I know that there are Rabbonim (and I have the ability to name names, although I will not in such a public forum, for reasons I am sure you understand), who have allowed the objective study of said heresy, provided they could handle it.
Joseph and Azi … that should be interesting.
check out pajamas media and instapundit for some “conservative” views on the war
azi … i don’t think so … if i may be so arrogant, I would like to say that I merely possess a higher level of intellectual honesty than you do, and therefore are able to concede with grace.
That being said, Joseph, do you mind trying to qualify and PROVE (sorry don’t know how to underline, the caps are not shouting in this case, it is for emphasis only) what you are saying? I am curious to hear your views on this
I don’t know whether it is holy or not, but i do know this … some of the phrases that are commonly used in yiddish (heilege abbaye, heilege rava) would sound very funny in any other language, but in yiddish retain an authentic meaning
azi, thanks for the support, but to an extent, Joseph did answer me. My question to him was slightly unfair, b/c it is difficult to put the logic behind it into eloquent prose.
Can I make a slight request? Thusfar, this topic has retained a high level of both intellectual honesty, as well as a low level of personal/ad homenum attacks. Can we keep it that way?
whatsup?
mod25 … so close it!! lol
Gut Vocht All,
Flatbush27, just curious, what would be your opinion on people learning 3 sedarim a day, who also would like to broaden their horizons secularly, and therefore read news, opinions etc? Would that be problematic?
Joseph, while in theory I do not disagree with you, I think that to say that the issues of kefirah are on the same level as those presented by pritzus, minimizes the challenges of the latter. As well, I am not convinced that the study of said kefira with the attitude that it must be carefully considered and weighed against Torah values is necessarily wrong. Are you able to justify your claim?
flatbush27 … none of what you are saying is incorrect. However, I feel that the instinctive “curl up into a ball and insulate ourselves” approach is misguided and will create more harm than good. Teenagers (and adults for that matter as well) can and will find ways to access what the want if they are so inclined to. By allowing supervised access, and with parental supervision, intervention and communication, teenagers (and adults) can learn to use the internet properly.
what do you think?
BTW, I never mentioned the word filters … they don’t really work and are too easy to get around. However, monitoring software that it is clear that it will be known to whoever is monitoring that it was disabled, works much better (some examples are spector, covenant eyes etc)
Flatbush27: What about yeshiva bochurim who are also taking Secular courses, and require internet for research, or are interested in secular science, literature, politics etc? Do they really not need it? Should they be banned from using it? Please respond
Joseph … sorry buddy, but that is not what is breaking up countless marriages, causing teenagers to destroy their minds with pritzus
Native Israeli … true, however, when was the last time someone went of the derech b/c of Plato?
The challenge of the Internet is pornography and other such items, not “kefirah”
I will restate this again and again: the internet is to valuable a tool to simply throw away entirely
Full Disclosure: I listen to non-jewish music!!
That being said, I do not know if the singers themselves know that it is copied (i have a feeling yes, but i will be dan lekaf zechus).
However, jewish music, in the past, has copied from: AC/DC, Scorpions (Lev Tahor Asher Bara and Rock you like a Hurricane), Andrew Lloyd Webber (Joseph/MBD), Rihanna and Lipa Shmeltzer, U2 and Shalsheles (the bridge of “Sunday Bloody Sunday” and Kel Hakovod sound very similar, do they not?), Lev Tahor and one of the artists from the “Shrek” soundtrack (the L.T song is: Avinu)
I could go on … would anyone like me to?
how about this?
Parents stop blindly trusting the filter, and actually proactively both educate and monitor their children’s internet use. The internet is too valuable a tool t simply throw away definitively. The best things are not filters, but rather monitors that either record or forward histories of internet use (such as spector, covenant eyes etc). It does not prevent access to bad sites, but acts by way of deterence, as it is noticeable if it gets deactivated.
question … the rabbanim never assured running into traffic. Does that mean it’s ok? you don’t need to ask the gedolim whether is’ okay to sneeze, and you don’t need to ask about smoking. Smoking will kill you!!!
holtzichfest … your type of thinking demonstrates exactly what is wrong with today’s Jewish society
Azi … finally a voice of sanity.
This constant black-and-white rhetoric is driving me insane. The internet, while it has dangers that cannot be understated, have tremendous benefits as well. It is not so simple that something can be banned outright, and to be frank, I do not trust someone to tell me what to do in a situation that they have NO experience with.
As well, why is it more dangerous to a teenager than to a regular guy. They/We all have the same challenge in this regard, and although the challenge to teenagers is more pronounced, that does not mean that it could be disregarded in adults.
A filter/screen that someone else checks constantly is the best way to safeguard oneself from these issues, and the simple banning of said internet is both foolish and wrong
flatbush27
Member
Misterzee- does any serious self resecting bochur go on the internet?
why not?
As well, JoJo, i hope that you are talking (typing) tongue in cheek, b/c if you really believe what you posted, I really feel bad for you
notpashut, thanks for the reference
thanks for answering my question.
In reference to the Mishnah B’rurah that was cited, I am pretty sure that he says the reason for wearing a hat is b/c that is how people dress in the street. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that that is not the case today
considering that my post was not answered, i will re ask it
RoshYeshiva,
Not necessarily. When it comes to it, and whether you like it or not, physical beauty (not taken to the point of excess, itself a contentious point) does elevate and create a nicer atmosphere
SJSinNYC,
while in theory you are correct, the fact is that kids have a habit of finding these things out anyways.
I think that it makes more sense (with internet at least), to rather than simply all-out ban it, educate people in the proper use of this most valuable tool/resource
I request a rabbinical source predating the modern era (before 1800) that defines or describes this vague concept called “Da’as Torah”.
Thank you
mazal77 … i don’t understand. Does that mean that if you have the ability to make a fancier, more elegant simcha, you shouldn’t because someone else is so insecure that they feel the need to be just like you?
Why is that the G’vir’s issue? Should they also share their wealth
interesting topic, but let’s start with the basics … but who says that wearing a hat is required al pi halacha in the first place?