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mybat,
As someone who can tell the difference between Coke, Pepsi, RC Cola, and tell the difference between coffee made of Arabica coffee beans and coffee made of Robusta Tree coffee beans, I assure you that I have no trouble tasting the difference between fine whiskey (such as JW blue, green or gold) and low quality whiskey (such as JW red and black labels). And I would not be surprised to hear that most people can taste the difference.
ames – I’m going to submit your claim to Dr. Pepper for analysis. You have started 63 threads in the nearly 11 months since you signed up, which is a little more than 5.7 threads per month. I am sure that a number of users average 1 thread PER DAY on the first day they sign up.
mazca – what you said is exactly why many great Sages were fearful of the nisyonos of being wealthy. It is not easy to know how Hashem meant for a wealthy person to use his wealth. But this applies not only to those who we think of as wealthy (i.e. those who appear wealthy relative to ourselves) but even to ourselves, as we skrimp and save to “redo the kitchen” or whatever. We have the same opportunity to use the money to feed the hungry, but it’s between us and Hashem only.
Thanks again, 80! You’re really there for me today!
Q.E.D.
An acronym for the latin phrase quod erat demonstrandum, loosely translated as “which was to be demonstrated”.
What I meant by it was that jphone’s comment proved my point about the CR not being the best place to find a sympathetic audience. But if the mods are the demi-gods they pretend to be, then I believe such a thread could succeed. It’s all up to them (and y’all)!
mepal – I would, but CR rules prevent me from teaching Latin here.
To jphone’s post, I reply to the rest of you: QED.
NY Mom – good example. You are right, there is no point of a support group if the audience is unsympathetic.
The group would only work if the members were aware of where each one is holding in terms of tsnius observance. So if Member A never wore a sheitel and then posted what you describe, the other members could say hurrah, and many more. But if Member B who always wears a sheitel posted it, the other members would be unimpressed.
Such a group might (understatement of the year?) not work in the CR.
The finest clothing carries no label. My tailor told me so. He left Saville Row to do custom work for the quiet connoisseur.
Joseph – that’s $100 per boot.
oomis, in those days, $25 was worth something! Ach, kids – you can’t learn ’em nothing. Retirement is the way.
you called?
This is by no means a new issue. This is just another one of a number of halacha questions and scares that make their way around every few years. Although some people do hold this issue is a problem, most poskim I have spoken to are not bothered by it. Indeed, most kashrus agencies are not bothered – and not because they don’t know the facts.
AZ – you too, know my position. The narrow-mindedness I refer to is what you are espousing. We have debated this ad-nauseum here in the CR.
I hope you enjoy the human experiments that you are so excited about – but a poorly defined problem usually does not lead you to the correct solution.
EDITED
The narrow-mindedness I am referring to is that of assuming that the entire problem can be solved without considering more than one variable.
I have discussed this before, at length. You know this.
I have nothing negative to say about the Chassidishe shidduch model. But I would be against an all-out kol korei insisting that everyone adopt the Chassidishe model in order to solve a shidduch crisis. If our leaders say that this derech is better than our current one, then fine – but to say that their derech will solve the problems, no.
kapusta – you’re taking this very calmly for someone being stalked.
Joseph – real problems cannot be solved by narrow-mindedness.
NY Mom – here are the answers to your topics:
Allowance – No. Give small amounts for performing chores though
Kvetching – Buy yourself a Bose noise cancelling headphone set
Nightly HW – Builds character. Also helps relieve hypertension (yours, not theirs)
mepal, exactly.
80- that’s funny, because they told ME when YOU joined.
Bemused- I’m very proud that you were mechavain to me 🙂
80 – hang in there and you’ll soon see.
How did you do that? No one told me you joined the Moderating team!…80
SHUT is probably an acronym for Shaylos U’Tshuvos. Which is a very nice thing to study, but it is not something that you are supposed to use to find a psak for yourself.
Harav HaGROAN strikes again.
Wolf,
Admit it. Secretly, you really want to see it debated here.
TY!
NY Mom,
I definitely don’t think that saying “Now THERE’s a tsniusdig outfit” is the right approach. That’s not a compliment – you are calling attention to her wrongdoings.
How about being much more simple: When you see her dressed b’tsnius, say “You look nice today” and no more. Never call attention to the mistakes.
People usually know when they’re doing right and when they’re doing wrong. If you compliment her appearance when she is tsnius, and say nothing at any other time, she will understand on her own what you are appreciating (on a conscious and/or subconscious level). Don’t be surprised if after a while she starts to walk straight over to you every time she is wearing something tsnius, just to get your approval. That’s how powerful this method is.
AZ, I think for once you are saying something that I can back you up on.
Why do we need shadchanim at all? Why don’t we simply do as all the cynics are proposing, and do away with them completely? Let boys and girls mingle and find each other on their own?
The answer is simple. We don’t want our boys and our girls mingling. We are maintaining a high level of kedusha in our communities by keeping boys and girls separated from an early age. As a result, the chances of meeting the person that you are going to marry on your own is low.
There is a price to be paid for this hiddur, just like there is a price to pay for any hiddur. Just like there is a price for running our own school systems. Why do frum people pay thousands and thousands per child to send them to a frum school, when there are free options? Frum people realize that kedusha has a price, and it is worth paying for.
Shidduchim is no different. These boys and girls need a third party to make the connection. They need coaching, coaxing, and good advice from someone who can tell them how to deal with the opposite gender, because they have no experience of their own to guide them. This means that a disinterested third party has to do a lot of work so that two people can find each other – after spending their whole lives keeping as far apart as possible. While I’m sure that some shadchanim don’t care for payment and are satisfied with acquiring chessed, not all shadchanim feel this way and there is no reason why any shadchan has to be an altruist.
If you don’t want to deal with someone who needs to be paid, then by all means operate without the professional shadchan. It is your choice. But if you do use the shadchan, then you’d better be prepared to pay for it – just like you know that you (or your parents) had to pay for all those years of Hebrew school.
ouch
artchill – I withhold, and do motion that an amendment be added to include an amortization schedule for the escrow account over said 5 year period, payouts to be determined by actuarial tables incorporating untimely deaths and early withdrawals (no interest component for Shomrei Torah U’Mitzvos).
Also, make sure to add some “Heretofore”s, “Henceforth”s and “Inasmuchas”s.
ames, what did Dovid Hamelech say? You should be making T-shirts for those who cause you trouble first, and only then for your friends.
ames:
truthsharer, I’m not sure what you want from me. Would you like me “ask, debate, argue, and yell” at my rabbi until he “backtracks” from his psak? Do you think that would be appropriate?
ames, I can tell you what I think you should do.
I think you should “ask, debate, argue, and yell” at truthsharer until he “backtracks” from his position. That would be appropriate.
Kupat Hair is a sheitel organization in disguise. Please send them money so that they can replace all the Indian shietelach.
NY Mom,
In truth I would not be surprised if many women are still rebelling against the “tsnius lady”. That’s the way people are: Most people have trouble getting past things that hurt their pride – and being told “you’re not good enough” is at the top of that list. Even 30 years later they might still be trying to prove (to themselves) that they can decide for themselves what is good enough.
You are absolutely right that everything is between you and Hashem. However, think to yourself (and be honest) about how many of the things you do are things you want to do (right things AND wrong things). Compare that to how many things you do even though you don’t want to but ONLY because Hashem says you must. I think you will agree that wanting to do something is probably the most necessary component to doing. That’s why I suggest that the only way to improve tsnius is to make a culture of women who WANT to be b’tsnius. You can make them want to by admiring their efforts.
Moral of the story? Don’t yell “free” in a crowded clothing store.
No, wait, that wasn’t the problem. Moral of the story – always pay the cab driver 🙂
artchill,
WADR, it is most certainly not unethical for a headhunter to charge the candidate for his/her professional services. It is mererly uncompetitive to do so, given that virtually all headhunters get paid by the employer. The employer is not going to pay until the position is filled, so payment for failure would have to come from the candidate. If you tried that, all your candidates would go to other headhunters.
I do not want to detract from your argument re shadchanim, which is avodas kodesh and Hashem will pay for the hishtadlus. Only your comparison to headhunters was invalid.
mybat – oi vey! 6 kosher restaurants? No pizza and no ice cream? Boy, how the Yidden suffered!
Breaking news, kids. 6 kosher restaurants would have been a dream where I grew up (and when). Also, printing kosher symbols on labels was unheard even up to only a few years ago in certain countries. “Checking the ingredients” was how it was done, or by buying off a list distributed by the Rabbinate. Of course, ingredients were so much more straightforward in those days… you couldn’t imagine doing such a thing now if you keep kosher.
600,
Milk from a geshuchten cow might be fleishig. Maybe you missed that word in his tshiva.
I sustain myself on bread (with some salt) and coffee, and both have reliable hechsherim. I’m not on the madreiga yet of bread and water, but when I get there, I hear that in many places the water already has a good hechsher.