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Am I still ourtorah???
DAAS YOCHID- Thank you for your explanation. I do know satmar chassidim and they do huge amounts of chesed. But I never heard that shittah and it felt a little bit unahavas yisroel type to me. But thank you for Yor insight. I don’t know so much on this rebbe and that’s why the shittah strung a chord within me
GAW,KJ – alright, what is the shittah then? What would compel a Rav to lay blame on someone else, when he should be teaching his followers to work on themselves and stop hating other frum jews?
KJ-it’s not a matter of logic. They think there’s no logic to what your thinking. In their mind they would be crazy to not have an army. How did the suspects who yemach shemo killed the four kedoshim in the shul in har nof, how were they neutralized? By police and army forces. In their mind they think it’s outrageous not to have an army protecting the Jewish people. You think exactly opposite.
That’s fine. I’m not saying you have to agree with them. Im saying have dialogue with them.
GAW- what makes u so sure it’s not sinas chinam that is causing all the atrocities world wide. It’s ncie of you to pin blame on other people but that will make YOU unproductive in trying to change that. Start focusing on why you are not helping bring the geulah. yiu sound learned and smart but you also sound close minded and not lviing of your fellow Jew. So before you gk and critique a whole group of Jews and pin the blame on them, focus on fixing yourself. If your all done fixing yourself and feel others are not fixing themselves then go out and help them see why. but stop blaming them.
KJ- so tell them that. Don’t complain here about it! Quite honestly I don’t think they get your perspective so you will need to explain it to them. Imnot saying I agree with anyone here I’m just trying to show you their perspective. From their perspective they are greatful to HaShem for giving then back the land they were promised. And they feel compelled to protect it, as every country around them is calling for their destruction.
You aren’t wrong when you say so many people have died because of the state. But so many people have also lived. Think about the assimilation that goes on here in America. It’s mind boggling. I’m not justifying that is happening there, again only trying to give you insight into their train of thought. Whether you think it’s right or wrong is itrelevent. You have no argument until you at least listen to the perspective of the group you are attacking.
KJ, lior- Hi. First of all, I respect your position but I need to point out a distinct flaw in what you are saying. I have learned directly what Zionism is. In fact I elstned more about Zionism in high school than I did real torah kedosha. I would not consider myself a Zionist although I have my own personal opinions about the state.
Zionism isn’t an over arching term to describe people who are extremists, or who would die for the state of Israel. What you describe over and over in your posts are people who caused the seculariAtion of millions of Jews. You aren’t wrong. Herzel himself wasn’t relgiious. The early zionists for the most part were not religious and they ACTUALY opposed religion so much so that they used to spite the religious Jews around them by beig anti torah.
Now let’s move that to a modern day Zionist. Because there are two types. Since the development of mizrachi, the movement of Zionism has become a religious movement. This is not the people you are describing. This is the movement of today and I disagree when you say they are causing the secularization of millions of Jews. They themself our frum jews. Are we going to say how frum? That’s not a discussion for now and it’s itrelevent. According to their lifestyle they put a lot of emphasis on hakaras hatov for the state. So stop hating on them because they are learning the same torah as you. And they protect the people learning that Torah too.
Fine you want to say that they are not being treated fairly being forced into the army etc. again that is being done by secular government. I think even the modern orthodox Zionism agrees that learning Torah is important, after all they do have a hesder program set in place for boys who want both.
DZ- THere is no growth if you try to shut yourself from the world. Other people exist outside of you. It’s important to understand this so that you know your strong within your own ideas. If you feel that you need to exercise control then you might need to reconsider strengthening your views so you don’t get offended by other people here.
If you truley believed what you were doing is right then you wouldn’t worry about seeing other people’s ideas. If I ever get that far I just brush off their opinions at the bottom of the articles. Who cares what other people say, I know where I stand im strong in my conviction and love to hashem and torah. That’s all that matters. You can’t change everyone around you.
@shtatier than you- Not sure what I said, no problem!
@ GAW- “Part of being an Israeli Charaidi (which doesn’t exist anywhere else in the world) is the promotion of complete isolation from any outside influences, including other religious Jews who are not Charaidi.”
How can you teach your children about “Achdus”, about trying to please Hashem, when you PROMOTE isolation from other Jews, especially frum ones, who follow the same TORAH as YOU????
Just for some input- When I started becoming frummer, and started looking into the charedi community as a beautiful place, I noticed that while alot of people were welcoming of me and my new found appreciation of torah, so many people were like oh how will you find a Shidduch? You didn’t go to Bais Yaakov, you didn’t go to a Bais Yaakov Seminary, your in university etc. etc.
I’m sorry that not everyone fits the mold of the Charedim and their community, and while I think what you are doing is beautiful, people are being left out and marginzlized. Even if I wanted to be charedi, I would never be accepted as one. No mother would look at my resume because I don’t fit the box, it’s “mixing” with other Jews, when your trying to isolate yourself from us.
What kind of Jew are you then? Honestly, please introspect on yourself. I believe what you are doing has beauty and meaning, but how can you explain to your children that you are yearning for the Yeshua everyday, if you are cutting yourself out from the rest of the people who are also. I know me and everyone else are far from perfect, but in all sincerity, the Yeshua will only come when were united. I’m sure from all the Torah you learn, you know this.
(disclaimer- I’m not accusing you of making people feel marignzlied, I don’t know you, but I am saying the mentaility you attempt to foster in your community causes that)
GAW- once again, you try raising a family, running a buisness, shopping, cleaning and cooking etc. a few centuries ago women literally didn’t work. They stayed home and raised families. So why is t suddenly all on the woman to do something someone with 48 hours a day can’t even do?
No husband should learn Torah all day at the expense of a worn out, stressed out wife. Hashem clearly says that it is not only about learning the Torah it is about living it. Being married, raising families, hatch nissa orchid the list goes on and on. Thats why I don’t think anyone is saying learning is not doable, it’s just hard and you must be willing to compromise on things for the sake of the Rorah you are learning.
Daya Zooger- “(how much does university studying actually strain your mental capacity?)”
I dont know- you try taking a 120 multiple choice ADVANCED ANATOMY final in 120 minutes. Then tell me your brain doesn’t hurt…
Be good and goq- +10000000
FFBBT- like I said, just show them you are serious about it. You are still in high school, they might not have a grip on what your doing. Espcially since your father grew up yeshvish, he has his own hold backs.
You were born into the life you have, and you are there for a reason. You have an obstacle, but it is up to you to decide whether this is going to limit you or not.
In my story, I spent a whole year behind the scenes on my life, because my parents didn’t want to see it front and centre. You have to realize that they have their own life experiances and you aren’t going to change that. The only thing you can change is their perception of you. If you show them that you are serious (and by this I mean say to them, I love you, I love that you guide me and have raised me to make choices productivly. I feel that I have thought about this alot and going this path is the way for me. Here is my plan (just a rough plan): Im doing this schooling, this seminary etc. This is how I plan on paying for it (I’ve looked into loans, applied for scholarships, spoken to bankers etc.), because I would never expect you to pay. I want to give you nachas, I want to make you happy, but I also want to make me happy.).
FFBBT, it is showing them you are happy and mature. That means you need to accept them and learn to work around them, not the other way around. If you want to be YOU, then be you. No one is stopping you. Not even them. You just need to elarn to navigate your relationship with them, and that starts with forming a baseline of mutual understadnign between you guys.
Lettakin girl- your 100% right. I guess being exposed to the world growing up has helped shape me into a really well rounded and strog person.
So now my question is for everyone- what is wrong with someone like me? What is wrong with showing your children how to interact with the world around you starting from an age where they can understand it. Showing them that you can still be completely frum and you don’t even need to go to university or have a job in the world- but just so that they r not fragile coming or of the system. Why can’t the chinuch at home in addition to the wonderful chinuch at school be to be the example and show your kids how you can interact appropriately with the world.
You say so many kids go off the derech- I’m not one to talk I basically picked up Halacha and I mean real strong Halacha less than three years ago. But ever since I’ve joined the more yeshivish charedi community I’ve tried picking out the flaws in the communities I’ve grown up in and the community I’ve entered and I’ve built myself so I can try to conquer those flaws. And IYH that’s how I want to raise my children. I’m not saying I’m perfect I have tons of growing and learning to do. But I am saying that maybe someone needs to re calculate how their community is being run. Maybe there is a way to appropriately show your children how to interact with the world so that if they do decide they want to get a real degree they can still be frum doing so.
What’s so wrong with balance? I’m not saying immerse yourself in the modern world, I’m saying when you take your kids on trips and yor interacting with the world around you, say even though we’re at the beach we still dress tzniously Cuz it’s a beautiful thing. And the people around us- they don’t understand the Torah. They don’t get the beautify of the things we are blessed to do.
FFBt- in that case youll need to support yourself. get your plan figured out before you go to them again about this. There is such thing as student loans that don’t have interest- look into those. If you get a good paying job you can pay those off within a few years. If you are serious about your descions you have to show them you are. Show them you are taking responsability for it. Show them you’ve done your research, you have a plan, BUT you are open to the fact that you are human and your plan might fail because Hashem obviously has other plans. At the end of the day, you just need to show them you are prepared for the dreams you have for your life.
FFBBT- you sound like me literally 2 years ago (you can go read old threads of mine asking almost the same thing). I don’t want to disclose information about my personal situation, but lets just say it took an extremly long and painful time to get my parents to trust the things I wanted from my life. (including and probably very similar to the things you want in your life).
You are still in high school and you have a great deal of maturing to do. That is normal and I know how terribly frustrating it is. I felt like I was talking to a brick wall as well. There needs to be places where you compormise though. It is easy to say “I wish my parent was like that Bais Yaakov girl, who wants her daughter to dress more tzniously, wants her to marry that type of guy and get that type of degree”.
Hashem clearly didn’t set your life up that way, and the first step to getting you anywhere is to accept that. Accept the parents you were given. I know you say you do, but think deep down. Accepting them is more than saying “they are loving and support me etc.” It is embracing the fact that they have different ideals and values than you, and that is ok.
Once you have accepted that your mom will never fully appreciate where you are coming from you can now move to stage two: compromise. You know your values, but allow yourself to now replace that ideal mother in your head with your mother. Compromise can be as simple as letting your parents more into your head. It is showing them you are taking responsability. Or it can be as far as saying I will do my degree the way you want it, but I want to go to a specific collage.
Part of maturing is stopping to think the world revolves around you. It is scary, and I’m not accusing you of being full of yourself C”V. But everyone has their big dreams. Yours will come one day, you just have specific hurdles to overcome. You have to approach them the right way. Be calm, be patient and be slow to anger. Trust me, I go through this often still, but I have learned how to have these conversations with my parents. You will too.
Im currently in a secular collage- I really have to disagree with this. You can’t say things if you don’t experiance them.
I’m not going to paint you a wonderful ladida picture of what a secular unviersity is, but I can tell you that you are overreacting. I have never had a more REAL growth experiance than the one I am getting here- in a place where Torah isn’t the norm.
Do I think the way people speak here is disgusting? Yes. The professors jokes are innapropriate and I don’t understand most of them. But am I a completly functional Jew, moreso than I ever was. I dress exactly how I always do (covering knees, legs, coller bones elbows etc) I speak and carry myself like a frum Yid.
I’m sorry I have a passion to help people in the health care field. I’m sorry Hashem gave me the ability and to kochos to pick up nesscairy skills to help get people better and make them smile on the meantime. I’m glad I’ve found them and putting them to good use. And if you want to tell me that hearing my professors kfira has made me off the derech, if anything it has strenghted who I am as a Jew, because I get to go home everyday and thank HASHEM for making the halacha and hashkafa where I don’t have to live up to the disgusting norms of the goyim.
If I sit at home and do nothing My whole life money will not fall from the sky.
Studying in university is putting more hishtadlus and you WILL make more money. So technically putting in more hishtadlus will make u a greater parnassa
FFBT- from the information I’ve gathered about your parents from your others thread, it seems to me that this isn’t an issue of “controlling” rather it is an issue of miscommunication. Your parents have a different hashkafa from you- in her mind the way they raised you is correct. Seeing that you have different ideas is probably offensive to them. Is that to say you shouldn’t have those ideas? Chad veshalom. Everyone must find their right path and you should be matzliach in your continued growth. Your parents will always be your parents and your the lucky type that has parents who actually want to be involved.
You have to know this doesn’t change over night and this is going to be a challenge for you for the rest of your life (a great and blessed challenge). It is a learning process. My best advice is to show your parents you are understanding of their view point. Always start off your difficult conversations by showing them that you care about the way they are, and then explain to them why you are saying what you are saying. You must be very well thought through as well.
Ex: if this is an issue about the type of boy you want to marry or the lifestyle you want to lead. Show them h things you still do- show them your still you in your essence, but your hashkafa has evolved. This isn’t about proving them wrong this is about proving you right. It is about showing them Yor serious about your life choices while showing you are mature and well thought out.
I can tell you from experiance as my parents are also more left wing and modern than I am. And trust me we butt heads a lot. But we’ve really grown with each other. Seminary defiantly helped answer a lot of questions for me, but really it’s just putting yourself in their shoes and saying would I want o hear my daughter choosing all these things we didn’t raise her to do? Yes on their part they must realize their children are gifts from hashem and not clones of them. On the other hand- you are their child they put all their time and effort into you, they just want to see you happy, but respectful and well thought out.
DY- Just because someone learns for longer doesn’t mean its “more”. Chronolgically it is more, yes they are taking more words of Torah in. But someone who is working to make a parnassa to raise Jewish children is living Torah “more” than someone who sits and learns it.
This shouldn’t be a compare-compare situation. You can’t say someone who learns for 12 hours learns more than someone who learns for 2. Hashem deosn;t work on hours a day. Hashem works with intentions of a person. Hashem works with how much a person wants to serve him, and how a person serves him. It isnt for us to say someone who learns for 12 hours learns more than someone who learns for 2. that could easily balance out with someone who makes a kiddush Hashem daily in his workplace, doing honest buisness dealings in a Kippa etc.
Just to clarify, I am chas veshalom not agaisnt someone who learns in Kollel. In fact I am in university now to get a good degree and I hope that maybe I will be able to support my own husband in Kollel. But I think it is unfair to say one life is better than another. That produces winners and losers. Some boys can’t learn all day with kovea itim (if my husband can’t, that is totally fine as long as he is kovea itim leTorah)
DY- I sincerely hope this whole thread is a joke then 🙂
Im glad you are equating taking caution of driving a car to raising a family, caring for a husband and having a job!
Have you asked her if she is comfertable having her picture sent out to guys? Maybe she thinks its the right things to do…?
oomis- beautifully written!!
Is your great granddaughter ready to get married- or is she being told shes ready- afterall she hasnt even graduated yet…
I don’t think SAM2 is looking for a heter, he’s just saying how it works in some communities. No one here disagrees with Rav moshe. I think it’s ideal and that’s why girls and boys should be separated from the start so that you don’t get to the “years of dating situation”. I’m sure FFBBT doesn’t want to still be saying this boy I’m sure she wants to be married to him already- I know this Cuz I was raised in that type of community. I’ve seen this happen to many people and bH they are fine. Those people also probably never heard of Rav Moshe (or at least his psak). It’s simply the community- no one is saying your wrong.
DY- Your correct and I’m sorry for usInng tthe word judging. I just wanted to tell u that’s its not simply explicit. This girl probably has never heard that Halacha before (assuming her parents don’t seem to care too much that she’s been dating for 3 years). Please forgive me, I really didn’t mean to say that
DY- My point was that to you its explicit but to the communities I’m talking about it’s not. It’s just that simple. I didn’t learn that halcha until I got to seminary. So yes there is a distinction between communities because the people who don’t know about Rav Moshes response it isn’t explicit
Daas yachid- I just want to give you insight into a different community- this is in no way a disagreement with you because ideally that is what should happen. In a community like a more modern and open community it is normal for people to date for that long and still be frum and raise frum kids. The reason they don’t get married rigt away is because they don’t have the money and parents believe in further education and not supporting ther kids.
Please don’t be judgmental of FFBBT, I can understand exactly where she in coming from. And I know you are coming from a completely correct and halchic situation, but she met this boy and she is going to marry him. It’s just a matter of when. If Rav moshe was still alive and we bright this to him maybe He would say it was ok maybe he would or restrictions on the relationship until it was closer to date of marriage. That’s not for us to speculate. But if you don’t have insight in this community I suggest you don’t advise her on this. You aren’t wrong DY you just need to understand that this is standard according to her parents. I’m sure if she wanted to get married and live in poverty and live a kollel life she would. But she also has to balance that with kibbud av vaeim.
Life isn’t balck in white in the modern orthodox world- it really isn’t anywhere. But I can tell you from experiance that her situation isn’t abnormal. I’m sure she is dying to get married to him and that she knows he’s the one she just doesn’t want to throw her parents away and everything they believe in. Yes if she was from a classic yeshivish home then this might be a different story- but she’s not. She shouldn’t be penalized because of this, if she has found her basheret and they are willing to wait for the sake of things outside your realm that’s for them to know and not you to judge (even if your not judging your just stating Halacha).
Sorry again for the rant- just felt compelled to state that
Ffbt- If you dknt mind me asking- how did u become more right wing than Ur parents? Was it your high school? Cuz if you met him before u changed does that mean U changed for each other? Make sure to keep in mind that high school is an import timefir self identification (without boys). I grew up MO so for me It was the norm to date boys in high school. Aka it wasn’t shunned or unheard of. But I think for u to go to seminary could be eye opening- especially if you didn’t get the self growth experience in high school
oomis- you rock! I always have appreciated your posts, you are sensative to every type of jew and thats why your post before came from an innocent and heartful place! It is so nice to hear the way you apologized to Goq- I have alot to learn in the middah of rachemim, and reading your posts are a good place to start!
Goq- Thank you for YOUR kind words! You are always so thought provoking in your posts as well. I was not aware of the many nisyonos you went through as a child, but I can tell now that you are an articulate, well thoguht person with incredible iontentions to help others! Thank you for inspiring me, and others around you!
FFBT- thanks pal 🙂 You can! It will be hard, but it is doeable. That is something they will have to get over though. My best advice on thqt note is that if they arent supporting you, they shouldn’t have a say whether you have kids and are in school- you are supporting yourself. You can decide to take out student loans as well (intrest free!) if you are in collage, which can help you support your family until you get a job! Keep strong, and Hatzlacha!
FFBT- “My parents would love for me to go to college and explore the world but I want a different life than them.”
Just because you go to college doesn’t mean you won’t have a different life than them. I fell like you almost resent the way you were raised and that you just want everything different for you and your family.
I only say this, cuz that is what happened to me. I came home from seminary with a very yeshvish outlook, and I was like I am not doing university, I want to lead a kollel lifestyle. But then I matured, ALOT, and I realized that one thing doens’t mean the other can’t exist.
Just as alot of people here are saying- you can lead a kollel lifestyle and be supported by your parents, eating at fancy resturants every night, going on beautiful vacations having the faniciest phones and posting it all to your instagram account. Or you can live a life with none of that and compeltly dedicate your resources to Torah and Tzeddakah. I’m not saying one of the other is right. I’m saying it is ok to find a balance.
What your parents want from you is one thing. But I don’t think they are wrong. Getting a degree is super helpful in todays stressful economy and they want your life to be as stress free as possible. Going to college doesn’t mean your following their path, it means you are opening the doors to a great career with a good income, and your family will only benefit from it. I don’t think to be a “real kollel wife” you need to sacrafice your talents to be a teaching assistent if there are other things you will enjoy more. I don’t think it means you have to cut yourself off from your past and everything you were raised with. I think part of your growth process must be to evaluate your past and bridge it with your future.
Sorry for the rant, theres just so much in your story that resembles me and I had a very difficult few years that I feel I need to get off my chest.
oomis and GOQ- beautifully written! you have an incredible mindset, and you are helping to bring moshiach closer! I think what Goq was getting at was misinterpretted by you, and that was just a miscommunication. Goq, thank you for your insight into your upbringing. You are correct, many people show they are from a “Torah home”, whatever we might define that as, but really they are just faking it. I think we can all agree that a true Torah home would never abuse their children, treat others badly, teaches negative middos etc. That is not that the Torah teaches.
FFBBT613-I know you werent saying that, I am just saying, it could be an incredibly mature thing to come to your parents saying here is my plan (whether that be going to seminary, getting married etc.). Your parents want to see you are on your own two feet. It is easy to imagine being married and working as a secretary, having kids etc. It is alot harder to go throuhg with it, therefore I suggest you lay out the pros and cons of everything. What are the pros of doing the degree through seminary- what types of jobs will that get you in the future- will you be happy with the salary of that job, or will you want something more. Are you the type of person who enjoys shopping, or will want to cook up extrvagnat meals? Are you a huge red mest eater- thats expensive! Start looking into the price of living, how much is rent, where do you want to live.
The most important thing here is to know yourself. Know your limits and know what you want out of life. Don’t rush into life without knowing yourself first (that could mean take the year to go to seminary and learn more about yourself). Remember, you have the rest of your life to enjoy marrige BH!
FFBBT613-I think I can say I’m sort of in a similar boat to you. I’m just a bit older but your background sounds pretty identical to mine. I think the most important thing for you to remember is what @DQB said (you said it beautifully: do not rely on your parents. My parents are also more modern than me and they have told me many times they won’t support me. Is it hard to see other people get married run off to Eretz Yisroel on their parents credit cards- yes, a bit. But that’s life and HaShem gives everyone their own challenges.
What I did was I went to seminary and now I’m in university studying To become a nurse. I do not think getting a one year degree is gonna get me an income I will be happy living off of (assistant teacher secretary etc.) I personally have a love for helping others and I’m interested in health and how the human body functions. I’ve actualy grown closer To hashem in the secular university I am in.
Life isn’t always ideal, but it’s how you decide to live it and take Yor challenges that will make R life how it is. Just learn to rely on yourself (of course via hashem) but not your parents. They seem like wonderful loving people, but this is Ur choice, live it and make it your choice.
a jew who cares- so to be comfertable in your skin and consider yourself a “yeshiva guy” you have to wear a jacket and a hat all the time? Is a coloured button down shirt on a weekday a sin?
a jew who cares- why you so judgemental? Stop focusing on other peoples growth
sam2- TWINS!!
easiest recipe- 1 package of paerve whipping cream and one package of pareve cookies
Whip the cream and pour in smashed up cookies- makes tweo pies. freeze them and voila a yummy delcious shabbos dessert (cookies and cream pie!)
vogue- do what every collage student wants- SLEEP!!!!
come on over…welcome to canada! #wethenorth
Ray- thank you so much for clarifying. I completely read your first post wrong and that is why I answered the way I did. It seems to me that whether your real issue is ASD or socially you have troubles, that issue is getting fuel from the fire of your parents who are unsupportive of you emotionally.
I have to tell you that I went through a few years of having completely unsupportive parents and I suffered terribly. My mother would make the same snarky remarks your mom does about the way I dress and how I looked awful and no one would ever want to date me. It seems as though you are getting hit much worse and this has been going on for you since you were four. I know I am not going through what you are but I want you to know I understand you and your feelings. And I hope that means something to you, because you are so craving for your parents to. I really understand you.
I am happy you are speaking to someone about this. Ray, you sound like a mature, smart, growth filled, fun girl who just wants some peace of mind. I think whether you hahe undiagnosed ASD or not is not really the forefront issue. ASD is just a title. It comes with a stigma and you have been linking yourself to that stigma your whole life. If you have ASD clearly you are mostly in control of your life, don’t let the rest of the stigmas eat away at you.
As for your parents, I am so sorry this nisayon seems so bleak for you. I think you should try to trust the person you go to speak with otherwise get a new one. Or speak with a rav, mentor, teacher etc. try your best to allow yourself to open up about what is happening with your parents. It is not right and must be addressed.
I’m davening for you ray!!!
Observer36- That was a beautifully written, sensative insight from an outsiders perspective. Thank you for sharing, I think even if this is not the issue “write or wrong”‘s child is having, it was still a way for others with children like this to relate to and understand.
Write or wrong- Firstly, I would like to send you all my support because I know you are going through an extremly tough time. I went through a sort of opposite situation where I became more frum than my parents, and to them this was basically OTD. They would say “What is wrong with the way we raised you?” “What makes you think you are better now than you were before?” “How do you know that what you are doing is right, afterall, we are the ones with the life experiance?”
Questions I am sure you ask yourself many times a day. My answer to my parents was and is probably the same as your sons, this is the derech that simply makes sense to me. Yes, you as parents do have more life experiance, you do have more knowledge! I think something us as young adults find is that as we get older ourselves and accumulate our own lfie experiance, we tend to follow the path that seems to make the most meaning for us. Not that there is anything wrong with your path, because there isn’t, it worked for you.
When I spoke to my rav about how I should come about this issue, and approach my parents who could not talk to my face because they were so offended, he said, you must know that Hashem gave them the Bracha to raise you, but you the Chochma to find your derech. They will learn to accept you, and you will have to be patient with them and respect them along the way.
I know your son and I r doing something completly opposite, and I am not comparing our situations, but I am only trying to give you insight into the mind of a thinking young adult.
I know your son is obviously doing things that are worse than you’d ever imagined, and he might be harming his health and his neshama. I think the thing I wanted to see out of my parents most in my time of development was that we were on a level of respect with each other. And frankly I have gained alot more respect of who they are, and what it means to be a parent. I think you are doing an absolutly wonderful job just the way you express yourself. I am sorry if anything I said hurt you, or was unrelatable, I am only hoping to add some clarity into the minds of young people like me.
davening for you!
It says that he said “kill the jews” before he did it… not in that specific article but later when they learned mroe information
RayofLight- Wow, again I am so so sorry. I did not mean for you to understand that as me expecting you to be a person with special needs. As Syag beautifully wrote, we all have a tough time reading each other, the meaning behind what people say to us.
Again I am so sorry if it hurt you, I was not trying to put you down. I was simply trying to lend you advice on how you can improve self esteem and especially your relationship with your parents.
Chas Veshalom, I would never have intended to say you are not normal. We are all not normal in our own way. I would never disregard your issue and say you are special and need to be treated that way! In the work I do, I attempt to make life as normal as possible for my campers, and the kids I work with, no matter what their ABILITY.
I’d like to highlight the word ability because Ray, no I do not know who you are, I was not aware you were a poster from before, and I am sorry if I am seeming inconsistant with you. But I know, no matter who you are, you have abilities. You do, Hashem gave you them when you were born. Even my camper who could not move anything in his body but his eyes had abilities. He has a personality, feelings and the ability to make people smile and appreciate life, and be a good friend and companion.
You need to take your abilities and seperate them from what you might consider your “disability”. If you are having trouble socially, whether you have ASD or not is irrelevent. You are having a problem that you want adressed. But don’t put your whole persona down. You are an able person, with like you said, a nisayon from Hashem.
My advice to you is to communicate that with your parents (and if you have read my posts in a while back I know how difficult it can be. It took me a year and a half to open up with my parents about a major issue). Please do not take my posts as rhetoric, or ridicule on you Ray, I sincerely care about you and want you to succeed in life. Not because you are special, because you are my Jewish sister who is hurting and wants to find a beam of light.
Please mochel me, I am sorry.
Rayof Light- I am so so sorry I did not recognize your post before! I did read it, I forgot to add your name to my post.
And that is exactly my point. You might look at me as perfect, but I have my problems too. They are extremly different from yours, but I am not perfect, I make mistakes. I forgot to mention you, which probably hurt your feelings. As humans, we all have our issues, but we need not be defined by them.
I am very happy to hear your friends are kind to you, it is a Bracha from Hashem. As for your parents, take two approaches. the first could be to discuss with them how you are feeling. If you cannot do that through a conversation, write it down and hand it to them and walk away. But the main point is to give them insight into your head. Let them know what is going on.
I am so sorry it has been so hard for you, that you do not feel safe and you are embarrassed and afraid. But there are so many ways that you can feel loved, embraced and safe. You can attend a camp like camp kaylie, which has facilities that accomodate kids with special needs and integrates other kids with them. There is camp simcha, camp HASC( which does not seem to be for you) but I am saying that there are programs out there that can help you work on your self esteem, your outbreaks and your sense of self security.
Your parents love you, and they must be very special to have a special child like you. It is hard for them, as they are not speaking your language. You are blessed it seems to be able to communicate. Many “typicially developing” people cannot communicate with their own parents. Many people have strained relationships. Try your best to find a way to show them what is happening in your mind!
hatzlacha rabba
agreed with someoneMe2
and im sure if someone has something negative to say, or that has no place here, 100 our friend will take care of that!
As someone who works with children and adults with special needs, let’s all first an foremost rename “autistic children” to children with autism. The minute you focus on the aspect that they are children or adults first and foremost can help shape your attitude.
When I work with this population I think the most important thing to do is learn their language. I have worked with children with all types of abilities and needs and frankly every child has their own language, their own triggers, things that make them upset or get them moving along. It is a bad attitude in general to assume that children with autism who are non- verbal or canny express themselves do not have feelings. Keep in mind they are CHILDREN with autism. They are humans.
As for the two posters above- thank you for the insight into your lives. I am sorry it is so difficult being in your position. Just know that it is also hard for us to read you and we are trying our best to listen. As for the people who do not treat you well, they are simply missing out on some of the holiest neshamos HaShem brought to earth.
Lior- I agree with you and some other posters that yea it is important to look into how the divorce affected the prospect shidduch.
The problem arises when you put too much emphasis on this thought. There are many statistics that also discuss how parents from together homes who are constantly at work and have no time for their kids also affect them. Or how bullying in school can have a long term affect on someone. Or how expectations of parents on their kid can have a huge negative impact on them.
I am not discharging the stats you have posted as yes many stats are correct. But I disagree that this is a rule.
When looking at the prospective shidduch, look at the person first and foremost and see how their life events have shaped them. Get to know them, it is unfair to judge people like that. Just because divorce is painful and people know it is a terrible thing doesnt make it a better target than what people could be suffering inside.
One must take into account the person as a whole. We would have a lot more shidduchim if people didn’t judge so much…
eek- im not saying zionism is extremism, i’m saying for those people who are so pro it they cannot see anyone else exists, just like neturai karta, which cannot see anyone else exists because they are so against it.
voos- I am comparing you to them only because honestly you guys have more in common than me and you do. You both hate each other and love your cause. The rest of us just try to be the best jew we can and make the most from life. Why cant you just love your fellow Jew for one minute. If you truley wanted to make Hashem proud in that aspect (you cannot deny it it is a mitzva dioraysa “veahavta leryacha camocha”) then you would say ok I hate Israel, but first and formost I love my fellow Jew.
All I am saying is that If you truly believe you are right, you wouldn’t try projecting your emotions and beliefs so much. That is usually a sign that you are uncomfertable deep down with what you are doing so you try to get others to agree with you. If you were comfertable with what you did, you wouldn’t need to project it. You’d recognize that other people do not see life the way you do, maybe they have never heard your side of the story. But burning their flags, things they grew up knwoing surly will not help your cuase.
Think about it.
lior- why does tkaing a subway need a heter? It is the same thing as walking along a street in any city in the world.