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aries, have you been able to put your clairvoyance to work and make many Shidduchim? Can I ~p l e a s e~ send you a couple of hundred singles? If you know what is a definite no, wouldnt you sense which Shidduch is a definite yes, or at least a very high likelihood?
aries:
How old are you? Irrelevant to the discussion.
How many shiduchim have you been involved in? I set up a couple of hundred dates in the last 2 -3 years.
How many calls have you gotten in regard to information? More than I can count.
Please answer the above questions and I will continue answering yours. Thanks!
btw, how does the fact that canine is 71, etc tell you he/she has all the answers. Only one G-d in Heaven does! The longer Im involved in Shidduchim, the more I see I dont know, and that G-d runs the world and the less likely I’d say a Shidduch isnt for any individual. The older I get, the more humble I get, bec I see I know and can predict compatibility, and everything else in life, less and less! Can I rent your crystal ball?
A fellow Basar v’Dom, Ofcourse
aries, for clarity’s sake, was your Rov’s or the Chofetz Chaim’s advice to ask the caller:
Why are you asking me this?
Is something wrong with your child?
Did someone tell you something?
What are you afraid of?
Why is this a concern of yours?
And of course I would want to know who they are, who there Rav is, etc.
aries, Im a little wary of all this rethinking what to say and calling back, whether or not to say, whats for who to know and whats for who not to know, and relying on perceptions of people (perfectionist or not), because people get nervous and just drop the idea. Sounds to me like too much reliance on an individual’s tastes and opinions. We are all only Basar V’Dom. The True Judge is up there. I dont think thats the best Mehalech.
Im MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE wary about telling someone “the shidduch is not for her and I am not going to go into details”. Imaginations go wild, and thats fuel for Lashon Hara.
aries2756, OY VA VOY!
How do you go about getting information for your nearest and dearest? How do you respond to the questions you offered above when they’re asked of you, while you’re seeking Shidduch information? Please give sample answer, one by one. Or do you somehow avoid asking health questions? In any case, if you were asked these questions after asking ANY question, how would you respond?
Why are you asking me this?
Is something wrong with your child?
Did someone tell you something?
What are you afraid of?
Why is this a concern of yours?
And of course I would want to know who they are, who there Rav is, etc.
Personally, if I was asked the above questions, when looking for Shidduch info, Id say fuegedabatit! Id think Im getting far away from these folks if theyre friends or relatives! That would probably end that Shidduch idea!
Do you mean Parshas Chayei Sara by any chance?
Parshas Chayei Sara Malbim – An Important Shidduch Lesson
Avrohom had three good friends who believed in Hashem, Aner Eshkol and especially Mamrei who gave him advice to go through with his Bris Mila. Yet not only did Avrohom reject their daughters as suitable matches for Yitzchok, but he went as far as making Eliezer swear that he will not turn to them for a Shidduch. Instead Avrohom told him to to go to his own family, to the land Nachor his brother, where Idol worship was rampant. Why did Avrohom, the battler against avodah zara, show such a degree of nepotism?
The Malbim brings from the Ran that aveiros in the Torah come in two forms, those that destroy the neshama such as bad hashkafos, and those that affect the guf as well, which include bad middos such as jealousy and anger that make the body stir. In the latter case this nature is passed down through the generations, as children often can suffer from the same character flaws as their parents. This was the case of the Kenanim and therefore Avrohom did not want to be Mishadech with them.
Nachor’s problem was purely religious philosophy. This affected the soul and not the genes. It was a mind problem that would not necessarily affect future generations, who may reach thewir own conclusions. Religion is more easily reparable and parents are not an indication of their children. Bad middos are trickier and not likely to disappear. Something to keep in mind when choosing a Shidduch. Avrohom did!
WM, I think e v e r y o n e has that fear to some degree (me 2). Thats probably what contributes to us wanting to conform/stay in line, as opposed to giving in to asstd. crazy impulses now and then, which some do.
apushatayid, please share.
bpt, “I really don’t know the answers to these qustions, call Rabbi ______, who knows the family very well.”
If the one asking the health question asks you: I’ll call them as well, but is there anything that you personally ARE aware of?
What would you say?
At that point, do you
1. lie and say no
2. say you’ve got to go and hang up (dead give away)
3. pause and say I’d rather not answer that (dead give away)
4. get somewhat upset at the caller and say I already told you to call __________ (dead give away)
5. say what you do know
6. say or do something I havent thought of
HaLeiVi,
“I once heard of someone who said that when dating someone, you should think to yourself, is this the kind of person you want your children to hang out with every weekend” ~hee hee~ based on the limited information you got, flavored by the people who gave you the information, which may or may not be accurate.
Some of the opinions above remind me of the reason a Chasida is a Treif bird. She’Oseh Chesed Im Mineha -performs Chesed for her own kind. This somehow doesnt mesh with Kol Yisroel Chaverim.
Allow me to quote a post on rabbihorowitz.com that came up on a search for the Chasida bird:
Talmud Yerushalmi Yuma 4b and Talmud Bavli Yuma 9b together state that the roof of the First Temple was destroyed and we were exiled for 70 years for the sins of murder, incest, and idol worship. During the Second Temple, even though the Jews were diligent in the study of Torah, were zealous in the keeping of the mitzvos, and the Jews had fine manners (or were practicers of kindness), the Temple was destroyed to its utter foundation (“Strip her, strip her to her utter foundations” Ps.137:7) and we are exiled for over a thousand years, solely because of the sin of causeless hatred.
One has to wonder, how could they have been practicers of kindness, well mannered, yet at the same time be guilty of Sinas Chinam?
Remember that Chazal has taught us that “Anyone who lives in a generation that the Temple does not exist in, it is as if it was destroyed in their generation. Look around us and see people who perform unbelievable acts of kindness and are well mannered…to their own kind, like the treif “Chasida” bird. Yet hateful and cruel to those who are not of their kind.
It is this very lack of respect for others, lack of tolerance for those different, combined with the misplaced haughtiness of sadly mistaken self-righteousness, that is the very cause of the destruction of our holy Bais Hamikdash and the repeated destruction of our very communities.
Enough is enough. Klall Yisroel needs to focus first and foremost on learning the halachos of mitzvos Bein Adam L’Chaveiro and then start practicing chumros in Bein Adam L’Chaveiro. For this is where our true weakness has been ever since the first nuclear Jewish family, the sale of Yosef by his own brothers. This is the breach that needs to be repaired first.
aries, unfortunately there’s lots of lieing parents around. Theyre not unique. Uch in Vey if we’re depending on the parents to fess up about their child. Even now they’re saying the divorce happened because there is something wrong with her! Thats the way it goes in Divorceland! If I wasnt closely involved, Id think that might be the case. From what Ive seen, parents N E V E R offer negative info on their kids, unless its something obvious! Theyre looking for another victim, nebach. I feel bad for them too though. They didnt cause the original problem.
Anyhow, the Posek told me that if Im pushed against the wall, I have to say something. Maybe not give all the details, but not deny it totally.
Tums, I was never contacted by the Kallah’s side, b”H, but just the fact that I and almost everyone at that Lchayim knew and pretended, bothers me terribly.
aries, sorry for my tone, but this is a sore point for me because of 2 recent cases I can think of and here’s one:
I have a relative by marriage who was in Shidduchim a couple of years ago. I knew that he had emotional issues, and was on meds for a while. I used to daven when he was in Shidduchim that no one should call me about him. At that time I asked a Shailoh about what I should say if asked, and was told that I have no heter to lie to anyone. I dont have to offer the information on my own, but I cant say no if I have the bad luck to be pinned against the wall with a health question about him. B”H I was only asked about the parents.
Update: He is now divorced with kids, and even though I was never asked about the boy’s health, I feel terrible for the girl. I think about her all the time. She tells people that she and her family were too trusting, and they lost faith in humanity. Such an innocent sweetiepie. Throughout the engagement I was thinking that I hope she finds out, but it cant/wont be through me. I remember being at the Lchaim, and everyone there knew and didnt say anything then and throughout the engagement. Very sad.
aries, “today’s society which looks at you and puts a “time” frame on what has to be done when doesn’t help any”.
Agreed, and HOW!!!
When girls in the frum community get to their mid twenties or thirty, theyre lucky if they’re not suffering from depression, to some degree, or thinking about slowly going off the Derech, worst case scenario, or becoming much less frum, at best ( quietly thinking if there was a G-d, He’d know how alone and ashamed I feel…). Constantly going to friends weddings, brises, kiddushes, one after another, with old friends talking about their husbands and babies…..
“Keep your eye on the prize…” is easier said than done.
I think the truthfulness of the information you get hinges on how much connections you have. If you’re not that well connected, you have only the references given as a source of information, or the principals, neighbors, or friends, etc of the single. Generally speaking, unless these people know you, they arent going to tell you anything negative. OTOH of you get someone you know well, who either knows the person they’re asking the questions of well, or has “muscle” in the community, to inquire, more chance you’ll get the inside scoop.
If 2 people, one a stranger, one an acquaintance, ask the same person, the same question, they often get a modified answer.
As far as Dor Yesharim, no one Litvish I’ve dealt with checks before a fourth date, and it seems strange for one side to ask for the other’s numbers before then, for that reason. For some reason, the more modern the crowd, the later they check. Possibly because each additional date, isnt of such major importance bec they go out with many more people.
And what about the guys in their mid twenties who go out with about a hundred people in 2-3 years? It would be nice if all guys would find Miss Right with less attempts, but thats what I see happening. Either the guys have the combination of Mazel and/or personality type to marry a girl within the first ten girls they date, or the numbers increase to a hundred or more, very, very quickly.
How much checking are they going to do at date #56?
Thanks smartcookie, Ill try them iyH. 🙂
Any new places where someone got a good deal with good customer service?
I hear many people not wanting any starch that goes into the regular store bought rolls, have their fish store make them a roll of pure fish, onions etc, and no starch. The rolls are at least $10 a piece though.
Anyone here knows a store in BP that they know offers a tasty one without special order? The ones that dont do it regularly, you have to custom order 10 rolls at a time.
Best case scenario, in the homes where a parent remarries, and sometimes thats BOTH the father’s home and the mother’s home, usually the child/children feel like fifth legs, and unwanted furniture, even more so, when new children appear on the scene. Look at the 8 year old kid in the news last week who shot his pregnant stepmother to death. His feelings werent at all unique. Only how he reacted was. He was jealous of the attention the father was giving the pregnant stepmother.
Perhaps the LV admin wants LV bags to be the Bag of Choice for WASPs only.
amichai,
“both his parents came to visit him together in camp on visiting day. really special”.
Exactly, very unique! Unfortunately his parents post-divorce behavior isnt like most others’.
See thread: How often is Divorce the better option for the entire family?
eclipse, how about Purim for the Chanukas Habayis/Shack? We could all come incognito! That would be a blast (even for me, a Bubby)!!!