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sarahbarah2:
It is truly wonderful that you put so much time and effort into your davening. Halevi more people should put that much time and effort into their davening.
Wolf:
“It should NOT take an hour to daven Shmoneh Esrei every day”
Why not? What is wrong with spending an hour a day (or 6 hours a day, for that matter) davening?
“and the school certainly has no requirement to accommodate her unusual davening habit.”
Umm… religious rights?
“I think she can find a way to make her davening meaningful and *still* be within a reasonable time frame.”
Just as we shouldn’t judge somebody with a 90 second SE, we shouldn’t judge somebody with a 90 minute SE. If sarahbarah2 feels that an hour-long SE is what she needs, kol hakavod. It’s not like she’s saying everybody must daven SE for an hour – only that she wants to. What do you have against that?
“But what the heck. We all know that modus operendi around here has always been to tear people down rather than help them, right? So certainly I *must* have been trying to be negative and harmful to her.”
Umm… for a rant against judging people’s motives negatively, you seem to be judging people’s motives rather negatively….
“That (adding extra stuff into SE) is wonderful. However, it can also be done *outside* the context of SE.”
Yes, it can be done out of SE… but why should it be?
RSRH:
“we can’t focus too strongly on any one of them to the detriment of others.”
I disagree. I think that davening certainly should be focused on, even if it must come at the “detriment of other” things. Our davening is the core of our personal relationship with Hashem, which is the point of our existence.
Mod. 80:
“i have never said a S’E for an hour, but i have on many occasions said it for about 25-35 minutes… its what Tefillah should be. i cant always do it. it is work. hard work for me. it is Avodah. it is wonderful “
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
apushatayid:
“Have the principal of your old school speak to the principal of the new school.”
Good idea.
yichusdik:
First of all, nice shtickle Torah. However, even if this woman was a complete onnes and not at all at fault, there is still a problem here that has to be fixed (that something was visible which should not be). So this case would not fall into the category of Hochacha, but one should still try alert the woman that there is problem that needs to be fixed.
IMHO, the reason one feels “pure” while in school is not just because you haven’t done anything wrong yet, but rather because your neshama is constantly being “cleaned” with the continual input of Torah and Hashkofa. This immersion in Torah and Hashkafa is what keeps you feeling pure. But once you leave school this input is stopped, and things go downhill from there. (As the Baalei Machshavah tell us, a person is never standing still; they are either growing or falling.)
Therefore, the logical way to gain back this sense of purity is to re-immerse oneself in Torah and Hashkafa.
(On a practical note, I highly recommend the sefer “In Their Shadow”, a collection of truly inspiring Gedolim stories that show Hashkafa in action. After spending just a few minutes reading these stories, I can literally feel the difference… it really helps add that spiritual sense to my day.)
mdd:
“some of the so-called right hashkofoa are actually farfrumed ones. Even if I accepted what you wrote about the right hashkofos and right sources as is, still, this is not something to lose sleep over.”
This statement is a perfect example of what adorable was referring to (wrong hashkofos on the internet)… Losing one’s correct hashkofos is most definitely something to lose sleep over.
TBT:
You’re right, I just meant spends alot of time learning.
“I, probably among many many others, disagree with your definition of Yeshivish.”
OK… what’s your definition?
IMHO, there are two different parts to yeshivish. The first one is halachic yeshish; spending excessive time learning, keeping many chumros, etc. Not only don’t I see anything wrong with this, but it think it’s a very good an praiseworthy thing.
Then there’s the culutral yeshivish; a certain mode of speech, dress, etc. While I do not see anything wrong with this, I can understand why some people might not like it in excess.
PBA: I agree (and apparently, so do the mods).
Depends what you want to use it for. Tip – download iTunes, load it up with everything you plan on putting on your ipod, and see how much memory it will need.
“the Shoah is in a category of tragedy all by itself”
Perhaps, but it is still not anywhere near the tragedy that the Churban still is.
Glad to hear it.
“Does TRUTH always reveal itself DURING the lifetime of the person ruined by falsehood?”
Looking around, I’d say the answer is no.
“Can a person daven profusely for a yeshuah,and simply not merit it?”
I would assume so.
“No matter how high a wall one builds, there will always be a ladder even higher. If the ladder breaks, there will be a shovel readily available.”
True; but that’s no reason to not bother building a wall. Some will get in, but others will stay out.
Because the mods, who make the subtitles, don’t like him.
binayeseira:
“i was talking about chocolate and flowers in a marriage!”
Perhaps you were, but others most certainly weren’t. They were talking about throwing money at the girl while dating.
“and i’m not at all saying that it’s shallow to care about looks – most of us do… girls (women, whatever?) are also not always purely spiritual human beings.”
I agree with that – that at the end of the day, externals do have a legitimate role to play in shidduchim. (Now obviously the internals should be the main focus, but the externals are important in forming an attraction.) However, some on the “shidduchim and weight” thread seemed to be disgusted by the very thought of externals playing a role in shidduchim; and I wonder what they would say about chocolate, flowers and the whole “he should throw money at her” concept in general. If looks have no place in shidduchim (which I do not hold), then “wooing” should have no role either.
walton157:
“@mw13: How can we make a decision for someone who wants to remain single? When people turn 18, they are emancipated from their parents/guardians. Noone can make this choice for anybody.”
First of all, nowhere did I say that “we” should make any decisions for anybody. I said that to make the decision to remain single is halachacly, and therefore morally, wrong.
binahyeseira:
Oh, I get what you’re saying now… thought you meant something I had said on this thread.
TikkunHatzot:
“MW13, some of the “boys” were not being defensive, they were being offensive. To be defensive is to say, “I am entitled to my opinion & there is no reason that I have to change my opinion in what I prefer.” Some of the guys did that, but others began straight out attacking.”
Yes, they were attacking the notion that this is all the boys’ fault. That’s defense (albeit aggressive defense) in my book.
Dovid HaMelech:
“Choosing to remain isn’t an option in our Klal.”
walton157:
“We DO have a choice to get married or remain single. That is the difference between humans and animals. We can choose, they can’t.”
True. But I think what Dovid HaMelech meant was that choosing not to get married is not halachicly feasible.
“So, it’s better to settle for someone just to say “I got married”?”
No, they should continue trying to find the right one for them instead of deciding to stay single.
binahyeseira:
I completely agree that is is deeply regrettable that this thread took such a turn, and I fully understand why many find it hurtful.
However, I’d like to point out that,IMHO, you missed a step in this thread’s history. At the beginning, during the sympathizing phase, some girls wrote posts blaming the boys. This understandably led to the boys defending themselves.
“mw – i’ll answer you on a different thread where you addressed the same issue.”
Answer what issue?
aries2756:
Excellent comment.
bombmaniac:
“the minhag makes no sense.. what. so. ever.”
I wouldn’t go quite that far. I will admit the chashash chometz is a rather small one… however, my father doesn’t eat gebruks, so, no matter how small the chashash, neither do I.
“why should achdus matter…why should it matter if its only mid’rabonon…? chametz is chametz and since when do we disregard halachos mid’rabonon”
Huh? (As in, what does this have to do with achdus and exactly what di’rabanans are being disregarded?)
Clark Kent:
“If you see it on the street you are an Ones. You didn’t set out to see it. And when and if you do c’v see it, you should turn away from it asap. Watching a movie… it’s not an excuse as you knew it would happen so you can’t put yourself in the position of seeing it even momentarly in the first place.”
Couldn’t agree more.
binahyeseira:
“how he treats you is most important, but what helps marriage is when feel appreciated and loved, and somehow chocolate and flowers speak very eloquently.”
I’m with you until the second comma. Again, why does love and appreciation have to expressed through all these gifts? The only thing this shows is that he’s got money to spend, not that he cares about you in slightest.
“if you are a girl, i think you would understand without me explaining.”
And if you were a guy, you would understand what we’re saying on the “shidduchim and weight” topic. But I’m not a girl, and I don’t see how chocolate and flowers show you anything but the guy’s finances, and certainly not his deepest feelings. Sounds pretty shallow to me. (Which, as I was pointed out before, is exactly the type of thing that everybody was bashing on the “shidduchim and weight” topic.
“according to rav Dessler – ahavah increases through giving, so by husband giving to wife, it increases his love for her.”
Then shouldn’t she be getting him chocolate and flowers too?
“by romance, i think people mean – make it romantic – showing the girl that you care about her, etc. – which means buying her chocolate, flowers, etc.”
I agree (that this is the definition that most people have of romance or romancing), but I think it’s wrong. Why should how much somebody cares about you have to be expressed with money? Why can’t you judge how much he cares about you from the way he treats you? Why do girls seem to need to have money thrown at them in order to be convinced a guy likes them? Weren’t you all just blasting judging things by externals in the “shidduchim and weight” topic?
“My point is that you seem to feel that other people do not havethe freedom to somethinh that you feel is conytarry to your definition of halacha.”
People have the “freedom” to do whatever they want; it’s called bechira.But yes, I do feel that any action that violates the halacha is wrong. Actually, I would consider that one of the basics of Judaisim.
“You also eel that goyim don’t havethe right to do do the same thing because they are wrong.”
Correct.
“Muslims are wrong in their beliefs;However, once you establish the principle that you can enforcr halacha on anything that offends you, the fact that they are wrong would not stop them from enforcing Sharia law on Jews walking rom enforcing Sharia on any Jew walking down Coneu=y Island Avenue.”
I’m not trying to stop anybody from doing anything; I’m trying to explain the truth as best as I can understand it.
Do the Muslims, mistakenly thinking they are right, believe that they are justified in enforcing their incorrect beliefs? Probably; but in the end of the day they’re wrong. So yes, they subjectively think that they’re right; but since our religion is the true one, they are objectively wrong.
lesschumras:
First of all, you are talking about “freedoms”, I am talking about what is right and what is wrong. One can have the “freedom” to something, but it can still be wrong.
“Contrary to your opinion, Boro Park is not a theocracy”
So what? The halacha applies everywhere, whether it’s accepted or not.
“And you should care what they think… The fact that the Russian peasantsvwho murdered Jews during this time of year were wrong in their beliefs didn’t make the Jews any less dead.”
Not sure exactly what your point is here… nothing in this world will make Jews murdered in the pogroms any less dead.
Can we stop with this blame game? These conversations accomplish nothing except getting people upset.
For clarification, I was just wondering why eclipse chose to point that out…
OK…
PBA & Daas Yochid.
Simple answer: I don’t care what they think. They’re wrong.
Going back quite a bit…
SJSinNYC:
“So no one would have a problem is an atheist spray painted over an add for a frum organization? It’s their belief that we are spreading lies. Part of living in a wonderful country like the USA is that we are given freedoms. If we don’t respect the freedom of others, others will not care if our freedoms get restricted… PETA believes this is how to act as well. If someone posted how PETA had vandalized a picture of Chassidim wearing streimels on the street, no one could be ok with it. When we ask for freedoms we have to grant it to others, or we have no right to ask for it.”
I believe the essential point that it boils down to is this: we are right, and they are wrong. It may not be very politically correct to say (understatement of the century), but ani maaman bi’emunah shelaima, I believe it with complete faith. Therefore, the actions we take based on our correct ideals are justified, while actions taken based on incorrect ideas are unjustified.
In other words, I do not blame atheists, PETA, etc. for the actions they take to support their ideals; I blame them for having the wrong ideals in the first place. Their base belief is off; therefore, everything they do to support it is unjustified.
We, however, are correct. Therefore, the actions we take to defend our correct, God-given ideals are perfectly justified.
GB3:
Kindly stop these personal and insulting comments.
Does anybody else here think that this topic has long passed the threshold of what is appropriate, and should be closed?
Apology accepted. But if you don’t mind me asking, are you retracting your comment or changing your hashkofos?
“people dont understand how hurtful this can be to someone. dont say no just bec of a picture!!!… but bec some boys (not all.. there are some really normal ones out there im sure…..) cant get passed the desire for perfection they wont even give me a chance … its just plain hurtful!!!!!”
I understand why this would you make you feel hurt; however, that does not automatically make it the boys’ fault. If the attraction isn’t there, it isn’t there; it is not necessarily anybody’s fault.
Smiles247
“looks are not everything.”
I don’t think anybody is suggesting that looks are everything, only that one must be attracted to a girl to consider marrying her. If for whatever reason that attraction does not exist, a marriage is simply not an option.
“Maybe that Hashem only gave them one child.”
The Goq is clearly discussing people chose to have one child quite intentionally; one does not usually applaud people for things they have not intentionally done. (Also, if having only one child was not intentional there’s no “restraint” to be applauding.)
“How unfair and unkind to make fun of such people.”
Nobody’s “making fun” of anybody. We’re simply pointing out that intentionally having only one child is to condemned, not applauded.
yogibooboo:
“GB3-u have mad issues. please seek help!”
A little maturity, please…
“you dont even make any sense whatsoever!”
I beg to differ. Actually, his point was fairly simple: just as you tell others not to judge you until they’ve been in your position, don’t judge others until you’ve been in theirs.
beinhazmanim:
“gb3-you r right on sista!”
geshmakebachur3
right on sista
“Girls don’t want fatsos either! But they don’t ask if the boy is a 38 or 42.”
True, but they do tend to ask how tall he is… Why is that any different?
The Goq:
“maybe the parents should be applauded for their restraint”
Maybe the parents should be condemned for ignoring the mitzva of “piru u’rivu”.
Actually, cancel the maybe.
“Is there something inherent in the act of viewing pictures at the rate of 30 per second that causes one to distance themselves from HaShem regardless of the content (as you claim)?”
No, watching a movie is inherently no worse than reading a book. However, the vast, vast majority of movies have either inappropriate images, so-called “morals” in direct conflict with those given to us by the Torah, or both. So seeing as 99% of movies are inappropriate for a frum person, some have taken the prudent move of not watching any movies at all.
“What’s in the miiddle of the NK on the rright and the MO on the left?”
The vast, vast majority of orthodox jewry.
“Naturally, the Chareidim l’dvar Hashem.”
And who exactly is that?
am yisrael chai:
Maybe you can email her a link to this thread?