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MP – This is one of the hardest aspects of mussar – managing not to have all the “self-bashing” affect you emotionally. Its really a fascinating topic – as I’ve learnt from Alei Shur, of course.
Sam2 – I don’t know what you mean.
My answer expressed my realization that my view of myself often reflects aspects I would want to see, while I am aware that it may not be accurate.
Oh – I just realized – you were referencing the character I mentioned ? I was referring to other traits of his…
MP- Yes, I would imagine you would say that.
R’ Yisrael seems to have a different view – its better, makes you stronger, etc – but if possible avoid.
One of the main points is to bear in mind that we have a tendency to hugely overestimate our ability to deal with adverse situations. And we also know that one cannot compare their ability to deal with one nisayon to any other. And we know that one cannot be confident because they have succesfully dealt with a nisayon in the past that they will do so again under slightly different circumstances.
Then again, i guess I shouldn’t try to say “kol toras mussar al regel achas”. Many of us don’t admit to these ideas. They seem to give too negative a view of ourselves for us to readily admit to them.
IS – very funny. Perhaps not – but what about confining your religious feelings primarily to the times of “Services” ?
As R’ S.R. Hirsch commented, we build shuls to lock G-d inside…
Mine is wishful thinking…
OOM – My hypothesis was that perhaps part of dealing with a nisayon IS to try to get out of it.
(Not contradicting the obvious fact that to the extent that its here it needs to be dealt with.)
R’yisrael Salanter discusses at length that Yiras Shamayim requires one to avoid the situation which is a nisayon for him, not to rely on attempting to deal with the situation from within. [Yes, clearly once it comes….]
Can someone please start a thread where we all sign up to agree not to respond to these trolls ?
As the line here is (99%) drawn between men and women, perhaps the women should come to the conclusion that they really just don’t get the reality of what men are?!
[Or if they would rather, they can think we’re all messed up. Either way just give it up already.]
This game is similar to the one bygirl and I were talking about in the other thread.
I would like to think mine would be a baboon, as in Rafiki.
I don’t know that we have learned that. I still think is possible for a very many homes not to have internet, especially if viable options are set up where people can have easy access for the real necessities. (There are places where this works very well.)
I think the Gedolim have become realistic not in the sense that they agree that we need the internet in homes, but that they realize that the “masses” will simply not listen to such a ban.
OOM – and yet we daven not to have nisyonos. The topic is a bit more complicated than that.
bygirl93 – I did “animals” on a date with my wife! Sometimes its “huh?”, and sometimes its so clear that everyone sees it! The good ones are when it makes sense for appearance AND personality.
Don’t think anyone here has a picture of me, but this thread got me thinking which character I’d see MYSELF as. It made for some pretty interesting introspection!
Listening is for sure assur, as indicated above. The hilula of Rashbi is different, as it is considered for a mitzvah (R’ Nissan Karelitz).
Here we go again….
It is important that they understand that we are one people and believe in the same things, although there are differences in preference.
Do we really ? Don’t you have difference is beliefs with other jews, despite your acknowledging their “orthodoxy” ?
The concept of a “religion” which allows room for different stands, despite still being the same “group”, may be hard to explain (and many of us don’t understand!), but is still true
R’Moshe Stern and R’ Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg say its assur, and R’ Elyashiv says its like haircuts – which the minhag is also to wait for morning.
There is actually evidence today that teenagers are “wired” to be “owls” – late to bed and late to rise.
It should be pointed out that the only reason they can’t function after going to sleep late is because they’re expected to wake relatively early.
And what is one’s excuse for not learning hebrew ?
It really is a great app.
In Eretz Yisrael its much worse. (again – here plenty of little yeshivos are popping up.)
Rabbi Tatz’s brilliant book “Letters to a Buddhist Jew” discusses many similar topics.
I meant it does not make sense practically. If the boy in question is truly a good boy, kust “unimpressive”, there are plenty of yeshivos that cater to him,and some do a fine job. Maybe you are appling to the wrong places.
Please, do more research – plenty of small places with less “name recognition”, that are davka NOT looking for “great” boys.
I know cops who put their guns to excellent use by shooting dangerous criminals. Therefore, I recommend we all keep loaded guns in our homes, to be used indiscriminately, by people of all ages, with no safety precautions whatsoever, and stop legislating gun control.
147, get a life.
Worked for me, works for many people I advise. Obviously you don’t follow what I wrote exactly, and I tailor my advice for the individual I’m helping.
Obviously, we are talking about people who WOULD go to both…
no asifa bashers please
As someone who is involved with yeshivos, there is something wrong with this story. If this boy’s whole issue is that he’s “sug bet”, and just not particularly “impressive”, but a good boy, AND he did not try applying to “sug aleph” yeshivos, this does not make sense.
How many hands do you need to count the people you know whose hasmada truly is such that it even makes sense to see them using these few minutes for learning ?!
Last ? Look around, they’re a dime a dozen, unfortunately.
I cannot believe that comment from “achosid” made it through here.
A chosid of who, I would ask.
I agree, and have not advocated for banning such devices. I would keep them for strictly entertainment purposes though, for the reasons I wrote.
Camp is vacation/fun//sports/games/extracurricular talents… def. has its place.
So you spend lots of time in real life dreaming ’bout that time –
Reality check, my friend.
Learning isn’t fun. It could be interesting. When learning is fun, that simply means you’ve coupled learning with a fun experience, but the learning itself isn’t fun.
I think this is a bad association. We use incentives for learning, but that is different. Kids will understand that its the candy that tastes good, and is simply being used for a reward, “shelo lishmo”. As they mature, they will come to outgrow it. When we try too much to “make learning fun”, however, they will come to see and expect learning to be fun. Since this fades as the child grows, and the natural interst they have in the learning process itself, which would be the best tool with which to approach learning, will not have been developed.
Life ain’t always fun. But if we can help our kids maintain their natural curiosity and excitement for learning…
I know I shouldn’t judge, but…
Staying in an abusive marriage for financial reasons shows pretty interesting priorities. How about if I offer you a job 9-5 to get abused, great pay ?
Staying in an abusive marriage for parental reasons is simply almost always wrong – the kids will usually be much better off out of it. Unless you won’t get the kids if you leave, obviously.
“Unproductive” marriage is a different story.
Not to justify something which is probably against halachah (though I like R’ Weinberg’s pshat), but if these are our problems….
The OP wrote “I think what bachurim sometimes do/don’t do doesn’t always reflect on who they really are and want to be”
So if the things you’ve done are truly in the past, you can often let them stay there.
It sounds to me, though, like you are referring to things bachurim sometimes do, knowing its not really right, and assume things will change once they marry. There’s the problem.
Habits die hard, and marriage is not a hospital. If you currently do not act in the way you portray yourself, forget about fooling her – you are very possibly fooling yourself.
I used to eat cholov stam, my wife never did, and she can’t understand why I’m still reminiscing about kit kats and entemans…
Wolf – come on.
We all know that the majority of problems associated with internet affect men much more than women.
And if for whatever reason its not for women, should they change that for the relatively minor group of single mothers ?
If these are your reservations… nu nu.
Of course a list of Class A vs. Class B yeshivos is not soemthing I’m going to post here, but there are PLENTY of yeshivos today for these boys. As someone posted above, don’t apply to riverdale or philly. As a rule, the older established yeshivos are the ones pursuing the better boys. MOST of the yeshivos opened in the last 10 years are not that type – and there are many.
I was associated with a yeshiva in E.Y. that catered to such boys, and i can think of 5-6 yeshivos that sent there off the top of my head.
Fun is about enjoying an activity in the moment, for no purpose. Children naturally find learning INTERESTING – they want to learn about the environment and how things work etc. The more you associate learning with fun, the more you are training your child NOT to pursue learning for the intrinsic interest he should have in it.
The effect of technology on this generation’s attention span is well documented, and needs no elaboration.
Even if no experts will speak, the rabbanim have been well educated about the practicalities involved. I personally know of meetings they’ve held with experts in the field.
That’s the way it should be – getting hadrachah from gedolim, who have come to their conclusions after consultings with the appropriate experts in the field. We need these expert’s knowledge, not their opinions.
OOM – and the learning they introduced was not rote memorization and the like, or even an appreciation for the complexity of torah. It was seeing how to take hashkafas hachaim out of the torah. The main meforaish S.Schneirer used for chumash was R’ S.R. Hirsch’s pirush.
Several Chasidus’ booked huge blocs of seats, if the Rebbe says go they go, so that’s not such a probable scenario.
HaLeivi – like it or not, this is the project of R’ Mattisyahu and Skulener Rebbe, they’ve been working on it for months.
Before the internet, kids always had places to go find “bad stuff” if they wanted to. They weren’t there in droves, so that obviously is not such a big problem (I’m talking about what causes issues, not where one could go if they already have an issue.) Clearly the main problem is the availability in the homes. Now if everyone had a filter, why is there such a problem ? Yes, you can bypass passwords etc, but you can control access to your computer etc, and yes, there are still plenty of kids not so knowledable in computers.
The situation is such that many people just don’t understand the problem. People think it wouldn’t happen to their kids etc.
This asifa will serve to convince everyone that unfiltered internet is simply a no-no. They will be concinced to get filters, understand it or not. The big, public nature of the event is both for chizuk, and to make a mass impression. People will realize that this is what is being done, and stop rationalizing. They will finally start to get educated about proper internet usage. And this will go a long way towards helping the problem.
The issues of making yidishkeit appealing etc. mentioned on this thread still stand, of course.
“Now, to be fair to Rabbanim, decisions are often made by Daas Askan and shoved under the rubber stamp for approval.”
yeah, ok, lets say.
“Had Gedolei Torah discussed, analyzed, and pondered the status and the Nolad…”
And why did that not happen ? Did “Daas Askan” stop them from properly analyzing the matter ?
Don’t know what their rationale was, but yes, it is a bit ironic that they’re trumpeting this asifa as if they’re on the front lines of dealing with the issue, when what it comes down to basically is the fact that they didn’t deal with it correctly by attempting to assur it completely.
Sam2 – What mitzvah do you get when carrying in a place where its mutar ?
Again – you keep speaking of two perpectives. I am making a distiction between cases where you realize it depends who/where you are, and where your sechel tells you the other is wrong.
That is why I keep agreeing to your points – because of course there may be another valid way. What I am stressing is the idea that you may be aware that there is another way, because there are other ways to think, but according to your way of thinking, you are right and the other wrong. And that is why there are these battles – often we don’t say “there may be another valid way”, but we fight for our way.
Sam2 – feeding a hefker animal basar b’chalav is a shailah, actually they make tzushtel from Pesach
147 – I like.
And what does R’ Miller say on the subject ? 🙂