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Odd how most discussions here go off-topic. The OP was looking for advice, not a hashkafa debate.
I will chime along with everyone else here. I would also recommend Rav Belski, assuming you are in the US. Definitely far out of the scope of this forum.
I wish you all the best!
Things seem to be getting hot in the Coffee Room. Maybe we should all cool down!
I honestly think you should let them decide. If they are seriously into learning then for starters, their Yeshiva may or probably will give them a scholarship, maybe even full. When they get married, they may or may not be able to make parnussa. Getting a college education is in no way a guarantee, and their are many who have done better without.
If they would like to earn a degree, they could do so on-line, without missing out on sedorim, and going to a physical campus. One of my friends in Yeshiva got an accounting degree through correspondence off hours in Yeshiva, with the Rosh Yeshiva’s knowledge. Probably the only one I know of.
I would suggest have them discuss the predicament with their Mashgiach or some other Talmid Chahcham that hopefully both of you respect. Being supportive is important, and respecting them for their accomplishments.
My feeling is, that it’s a lot easier to work hard and be dedicated to something if it’s important to you. If they don’t see the importance for planning for Parnussah now, they will probably not be dedicated to secular studies, on the other hand if and when they need it for parnussah, they may be far more dedicated.
Good luck!
The program doesn’t work too well for me. It keeps on closing down.
I grew up in LA – in the Valley, and moved to E”Y many years ago. Since my parents made aliya, I haven’t been back since.
My oldest brother was working as a menahel there this last year, while his family was in E”Y, commuting regularly.
While I went to Day School, I also learned in the Y”G for a short period of time, and am familiar with B”Y high school a little bit.
I had an excellent experience in Day School, and that’s what inspired me to come to E”Y and drop plans for going to college and dedicate my life to Torah.
Please don’t get me wrong about what I’m going to say!
I would be very hesistant to move there if you expect to live a life anywhere similar to BP, Monsey, Lakewood, etc. Check your resources well.
LA is big, spread out, fun – maybe the term Fruppy (an oldy) is applicable, laid back (a former UK affluent roommate of mine in MIR, who visited LA put it, you can cruise in a Jaguar at 55 MPH), although not as much as it used to be. The frum community is no where near the size of a community like BP. I’m looking for some other terms, but seem to be short.
If I were to move back to the states, a possibility I’ve been researching. I would goto one of the previous 3 mentioned if possible, and if going out of town, some place on the east coast, else Detroit would probably be a top choice as well.
I wouldn’t count out LA, but I grew up there, and I think I could live there based upon my prinicipals, knowing how to adjust.
Good luck!
Maybe in Satmar. I would make the question much broader. Do Seminaries teach anything practical, or are they trying to compete with the Yeshivas.
Oh, Mod, that was a good link. I’m downloading now.
Reb Daniel –
Thanks for posting the material you did, especially concerning Rav Avigdor Miller ZT”L. Your haskafas here on right on.
The Big One –
Do you have a source for that?
The Baba Sali had 3 wives.
Aside from minhagei Hagra, I haven’t change hardly anything. The standard tefillah from Tefilat Kol Peh, where there are a few minor changes, no tefillin during Chol Hamoed. In Chareidi-Yeshiviish areas no one changes their pronunciation.
Where did you hear that?
Oomis – Sounds like you do marriage counselling!
Well said WellInformedYid. Giving a Haskama is fine, but Rabbanim are being used as milk cows. Tzedaka organizations need to have enough self confidence to be proud of what they’re doing and suggest people donate based upon that. If we can’t donate money to tzedaka-good causes without these promises we’re in very poor shape.
They’re are enough promises in Chazal about the merits of tzedaka, without going over board. Unfortunately, these practices remind me of Angelican faith healing.
I was learning one morning, when someone saw a certain sefer being displayed for sale. On the advertisement the paper said, the Gedolim held it was an obligation to buy the sefer. No, it wasn’t anything halacha lemaysa, and might have been an excellent sefer as well, but the Yungerman, commented, maybe he should have added, what a statement “no one she donate less then” etc., like what is done with charities.
Just a final comment. I believe Hidabroot and other organizations do excellent work. Comment is only regarding the approach.
I believe the root of the problem is that people don’t have enough self respect, and in order to obtain their lost self respect they need to lower their friend’s.
I am interested in getting personal information about the community. Could someone please give me some advice on how to get that.
Just on a side point. There are some great bargains on ebay for used clothing. Yes I’ve actually puchased from there, no busha. Name brand suits just like new for $10-15. Not alot of white shirts, but pants and sports jackets as well.
Very well put Moq. Unfortunately I have seen this numerous times. I had a debate with a prominent Rav about this issue as well. He is under the impression that some well intentioned Mashgichim and Kollel wives can usually do the trick. When their is a real problem you need a real professional, and even those have to be checked out well as you mentioned. A relative of mine recently sent someone to therapy, and the husband asked me to check out her professionalism. No academic credentials, and yes she’s become an ally as well. She told me she had Rabbinic Approval, so I asked her who they were, she refused to state, saying that’s none of my business, everyone should ask whom ever they like. If the husband isn’t happy that’s his problem, let him ask his Rav what to do, the main thing is she’s happy.
This relative’s uncle recently got divorced, and we know both parties well. I really hope some ….. didn’t blunder with them as well.
Yes, a decree from Heaven.
Oh, I’m sorry, I rushed to a quick answer, didn’t notice this was referring to a perfectly healthy person.
I heard in a shiur this is discussed quite clearly in Igros Moshe, however, haven’t seen it inside. Apparently he paskins that it’s Gezeira Demalchisa if someone can’t fast, and therefore shouldn’t be done.
A tourist visa, to the best of my recollection is for 3 months. They usually don’t make a big deal if you are slitely overdue. If you leave regularly you should have no problem.
Didn’t sell that by us. The highest bidders were around 500 shekels for aliyas.
Hi, Charlie. Out of curiosity, could you please post some more info about what your work entails, and the type of degree(s) necessary.
I would like to add a personal thought related especially to the Chareidi-Yeshiviish world, especially in EY, both of which I’m a part of. A large percentage of those around me live in a virtual reality, a facade, a phony self.
Some stay in Kollel because it looks good, including pressure from some peoples wifes. Some leave Kollel for the same reason. Some dress modern Yeshiviish, frumy, etc., all to satisfy the way they deal with society. I have a former talmid who is a big Baal Mosed, without the minimaal amount of Yiras Shamayim to be doing anything directly related to Chinuch.
Living as a phony is bound to cause friction. We really need to get back to the basics and start acting as our real selves.
I wouldn’t suggest travelling through Turkey after the recent incidents.
American Airlines, French Airlines, Swiss Air – go to their web-sites. Daka90, Ian.com. If you start your travel from Israel, ElAl’s website has a 10 payment plan.
I will second the issue was burning a Koran, which I sure hope noone will do.
When the voucher bill was proposed in Ca., the advertising funding was 10:1 against, moreover, some of the main opposition was from the Public School teachers themselves, who send their children to Private Schools. I had a Professor in college, who was a public school teacher at the time. She was as well one of those.
CharlieHall –
I appreciate your response. I agree that Milton Friedman didn’t initiate the actual idea, as he said himself, however, he was one of the main individuals, and especially one of the more well known individuals supporting it. You have provided me with some quality information. I have recently become a major advocate of the idea, which has been partially initiated in different situations. The one I heard of was in DC.
This issue is a much broader issue then simply the Yeshiva-Religious world, it goes way beyond that scope. It deals with minorities as well.
Tax cuts and a voucher system are no contradiction. Milton Friedman was a proponent of the system and definitely advocates lower taxes and smaller government. They actually are quite compatible.
artchill
If and when I have more time, I really think I could convince you. I would suggest doing some additional research on the issue. You can look up Milton Friedman, Thomas Sowell, and Walter E. Williams at YouTube, or read their books.
Public education has and will constanntly fail, just like all other goverment programs.
I can tell you from my personal experiences in Eretz Yisroel, where religious schools get funding, why even there, there should be a voucher system.
Case in point. I started a school for children with learning disabilities, and other factors, which made a school system the best option. I applied for government funding, went through all of the legal channels, and all the beucratic nonsense as well. 1.5 meters height of oil based paint on the walls, etc. In the end, the money never arrived, all the salaries except mine, were paid out of my pockect app. 50K+ of debts, but that was the least of the problems. The children who left the school, most of which were almost ready to be mainstreamed back into the regular system got lost. One child who I see regularly now, an adult, who was a genious. Learning Gemara with Rishonim at the age of seven, but had some minor issues, that needed work, eventually had a full break down, based upon what he told me, to the point he was hospitalized. Most of the rest have suffered tremendously, but honestly who cares. Professor Friedman has a video of a school set up in store front in Harlem. I highly recommend watching it.
I don’t know if this has been raised here, but the idea that Milton Friedman originally suggested about a voucher system, would likely help to solve these issues. I remember it was put on the ballot app. 20 years ago in Ca. and was defeated. I wouil suggest that everyone try to push legislation. Far more important than the majority of welfare programs.
We had two granchildren, two brises and one pidyon, and our foster child just got engaged. The latter was a real simcha to top things off.
Do you think the ravkard are safer?
As far as singing together. Almost all of the poskim I’ve heard permit family members (parents, brothers and sisters) singing together. That includes Rav Vozner who is not a maykil on these matters. I would definitely not equivilate that with shaking hands with another woman. At best it might be equal with shaking hands with ones sister.
Nice to hear that Charlie.
I started a thread about this 3 weeks ago, it’s here – http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/rav-amnon-yitzchok-discusses-music.
OOmis – as far as the bracha goes, refer to my previous post. The Rush uses that as evidence for the contrary, while the Revash uses that as evidence that it’s a mitzvah.
Rush – Is the Rabeinu Asher, the father of the author of the Tur Shulchan Aruch.
I stand corrected. It’s quite clear that there is a machlokos whether marriage is a mitzvah or not.
The rambam States in Ishus “1,2” and in sefer hamitzvas “213” see the magid Mishnah there, clearly that it is a mitzvah.
Similarly the sefer hachinuch “552” as well holds it’s a mitzvah.
Apparently the Smag & Smak as well hold that shita, but I haven’t yet seen them inside.
On the other hand the Ran in the beginning of the second perek of Kiddushin, on the Gemara “Bo yoser mebeshlucho” says the mitzvah is “pru uvru” the achronim are medayik, I saw in Reb Shmuel’s shiurim that there is no mitvah of nissuin or kedushin.
The Rushin Kesubos similarly asks a question why the bracha of the Chupa isn’t a short mitzvah bracha, from this he concludes that there is no mitzvahs kedushin-nesuin.
I didn’t find any mention of a mitzvah neither in tur or Shulchan Oruch.
On the other hand the Revash 398 (see comments by the Mechon Yerushalayim) asks an opposite kasha as that of the Rush. Why is there bechlal a bracha by kedushin-nesuin if there is no mitzvah, anf it’s only dinim. He then argues with rav chasdai, and concludes it’s definitely a mitzvah. He answers the Rush’ kasha by saying that the lengthy bracha is tosfes shevach for this important mitzvah.
Apparently the Shach as well paskens it’s a mitzvah, but I haven’t seen that inside yet either..
The Derech Hamelech (I saw this in the M”Y notes) mentions beginning of hilchos ishus, that the Menchas Chinuc when he was mesader kedushin, would tell the chasan to have kavanahs to be yotze mitzvahs esseh of the those shitas who hold it’s a mitzvah.
Getting married is not a mitzvah, Chazal teach us that it is one of the main purposes in creation though. Have any of you seen what Kabbalah happens to say about the topic.
Good middos are not mitzvahs, but they are an integral part of teshuva, and create a human character which will peform Torah and mitzvos.
Becoming a complete person, and saving the world from Dinnim.
Correct OOmis. One is considered to be incomplete without a spouse.
I have a suggestion. Why doesn’t someone get a clear interpretation from a highly respected Rav, and post it here!
Oh, and Wolf, why don’t you ask your local Rav, as you generally suggest in other posts.
Any more creative opinions?
There are loads of free software for download, mostly open source. There is shareware as well. Downloading software which is not free for free is a serious halachic problem, as well as illegal.
Wolf wrote – “You’re right. Why even have a local rav to whom one should ask questions? After all, if he rules like R. Moshe, then we can just look it up ourselves. And if he disagrees, well then he’s a midget not worthy of being asked a shaila…”
It depends on who your local rav is and who is asking the question. In many shuls, the average member doesn’t know Shulchan Aruch by heart, and therefore doesn’t know Tshuvos of Reb Moshe, or Tshuvos of Reb Shlomo Zalman or Rev Elyashiv or even Rav Vozner. General speaking if they do, they are probably more capable then the majority of local ravs.
Has anyone quoted Rav Volbe. He was against Corporal Punishment in our generation.
I didn’t realize what a real nerd I am. It seems that I primarily beshowed. Do I have to get a gartel now?
Interesting you ask. My son-in-law said he asked his father to take him into his business and he refused. Now I would never discuss this with my mechuten.
Creating real self esteem, one must do and behave in a way that they have respect for their own deeds. If you respect someone else you should respect them for their deeds. Unfortunately in todays society at least, people tend to respect power, money, and any other outcome instead of actual deeds. A poor outlook.
Point 2. There is a close relationship between depression, and low self esteem.
Here are some questions you should ask yourself.
Do you feel week, tired etc.?
Are you somber?
No reason to wake up or excitement in life?
As far as reading material. I would reccomend Rabbi Dr. Twerski’s books (the non-kosher ones). Especially the peanuts series.
Good luck!
Some people have problems, don’t know halachas, are having a bad day, ich veys vos. I tend to agree with aries.