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I used to think the idea of not addressing women co-workers by their first name was “narishkeit”… until I heard some hair-raising stories (similar to above)… and thought to myself that perhaps it’s not such a bad idea after all.
I think that it’s a small step, that if implemented (by girls/women themselves AND/OR bosses/managers) can make a difference. That formality can help keep the level of office-intimacy between men/women co-workers appropriate – and discourage even those of lesser caliber to keep their distance (and uncalled for “remarks”) to themselves.
I think a modest snood (covering all hair) IS more tzniusding than the type of sheitel you describe. So although in these type of communities – it is understood and accepted that a snood is more “casual” and not dressed up as a sheitel… SO WHAT!. Obviously whoever is wearing a snood, is currently in the more “casual, not dressed up” mode. What a HUGE chutzpah for anyone to impose their “mode/mood” of dressing on someone else. Not to mention that there are many pious women (usually from Israel) who prefer NOT to wear anything else BUT a snood for tznius reasons…
(The debate if a snood or sheitel is more tznius – is a whole other thing. I personally believe it is easier not to risk showing any hair with a sheitel than a snood…thus, I prefer wearing a sheitel when out and about.)
Absolutely wonderful story… brought tears of pride to my eyes.
Here’s another good one:
wwww.simpletoremember.com
(their own site description “Hand Selected Jewish Articles, Audio & Videos
only the good stuff – all free – no signup”).
Good stuff.
Just for the record:
I completely agree that it would be a good topic to EFFECTIVELY discuss – how to increase tznius awareness.
I completely disagree that “laypeople” (of the male gender) should be bringing up “specific” tnius issues relating to women in a public forum. My gut reaction to that was – that in of itself is UNtznius! I could understand a comment here or there – but obsessing about it…??
AND then presenting an attitude/comments showing a complete lack of “understanding” of the proper way to deal with the Tznius issue, and a contradiction of “really wanting” to influence Jewish women to higher/better levels of tznius… it reeks of pompousness, as if that person has “arrived” on THAT issue (relating to men).
So bring on the discussion of “Tznius Awareness”, heaven knows we need to improve in so many areas including this one.
So again, the topic is a good one, males should definitely be careful of that slippery slope of borderline-tznius interactions with the oopposite gender – online, or off.
Kashrus & Shmiras Shabbos – are “universal issues”.
Tznius – while it may affect a man – IMHO – it’s UNtzniusdig for him to address WOMEN on this topic in a public forum. And that is my main point.
And Joseph – I highly recommend you start “reaching higher” by “looking within”, not outside at WOMEN who may or may not be dressing tznius. THAT, sir, is THEIR issue.
YOUR issue is, controlling YOUR eyes, mind & heart – as you encounter women dressed in a way that may cause you to sin – jewish or non-jewish.
Get it? TZNIUS – (in the sense that you’ve been going on and on and on about – namely “women’s tznius”) is a WOMAN’S issue. NOT SINNING thoughts-wise or otherwise – THAT IS WHAT YOU need to concern yourself with (surrounding this issue.)
If YOUR WOMEN don’t dress tznius – wife, children – then you may have some power to influence them.
But to think of taking this topic to a public forum – which isn’t anymore your domain (opportunity to influence) – is ANTI-TZNIUS.
I find it disgusting actually. And I suspect other decent women and men on this forum feel similarly.
GO GROW YOURSELF. Don’t be so busy “helping women grow b’tznius”.
Josephf –
Yes you have a point. You made it once, twice.