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And as far as me “turning out ok”, believe me, in real life, I do not have many of the “things” (lux cars, fancy clothes, movie star looks, ect) that the hype makes you believe that without, you are nothing.
What I do have, is a positive attitude. And that is something each of us can attain, with just a little bit of effort.
And AYC, if you are reading this thread, I appreciate the vote of confidence you gave me on two other posts. Thank you. The gains I’ve made were hard earned, but worth every minute and every effort. Know why? Because now I know how to empathize / sympathize with others.
A short while ago, I faced a real monster of a crisis, and BH, I made it thru. How? Syata D’shmaya and a positive outlook. You need both.
The thing to remember is, that no matter how hard you try, there will always be some people that do not appreciate what you have to offer.
On the other hand, there are ALWAYS people out there who will value your friendship and accept you as you are.
Focus on the latter, and have pity on the former.
” where’s bpt? “
I was busy yesterday, defending “frum married men” on another thread.
Which has since been shut down, so now I’m ready to pick the next battle.
But not when it comes to nail polish. The Mods have me on the watch list as it is, and making a comment on nail polish is sure to get me in hot water.
” if you were my husband “
Now that you’re engaged, no one else exists, Adore.
Start bragging about chosson # 1 (as he no doubt is doing about his kallah)
“at least your wife can boast about you being in BMG”
Not sure if she’d be proud. I know I would’nt be. The only place I can see myself being happy in BMG is the Executive Suite
In one of the womens barracks, there was only one mattress for 40 women, and each one got a turn. One night, it was the turn of an 18 year old, and an elderly woman asked if she could have her turn, because she really could not stand another night sleeping on a plank of wood.
She gave up her night, and that night, the guards came in drunk and shot up the mattress.
That’s the short version ( The long version is in one of the maggid books)
“this does not seem like you.
has anyone in your vicinity taken over your cr account?”
No. But I take great offense at the assertion that “frum married men” are acting like construction workers, when the person in question is sending off signals that imply nothing but the highest standards of tznius and virtue.
What was discussed was (IMHO) worth discussing, and as always the CR visitors part as friends, whether we agree or not.
the dreaded edited
“make her come out”
I see her point. Because left unchased, she could spend another hour in front of the mirror (and another hour+ on the phone with her five BFFs (conference call) to agonize over the pros / cons of which bag matches her shoes best.
No, best to chase her out the door as soon as he arrives!
“It should be shared or just the man, but never should it only be the woman. It’s not how the torah teaches us to run a home.”
Geshmak – You are technically right, but in the wrong market if you think that’s the reality out there right now.
From a previous post of yours, I understand you to be single. Ask around how many boys there are that share your views. And be prepared for an unpleasant surprise.
(Oh, and sorry if you took my replies to your other post as hostile. But that’s the way things go sometime in the CR)
Wow, BP Mentch, you must have posted a doozy to have earned an EDITED.
# 1, I do not blame victims. And I’m also opposed to the use of the phrase “she asked for it”.
# 2, Its a free country (though not a hefker velt) and the OP (and anyone else in the CR) can dress any way they please.
But choices come with side effects, and the way you present yourself (both good or bad) has a direct impact on how others treat you. Fair or not, its fact.
Plus, as I stated earlier, the “chatting up” may have been Ms. OP’s dramatic imagination, thinking that all the men are out to get her. I’m not sure of your workplace experience, but I can assure you, mine is extensive and non-frum.
In the workplace, trouble knocks on the doors that have someone home. If the chatting up was truely out of bounds, it might warrant a self assesment.
“but it is not nice to ask others to comply.”
Oh, thats what all the 26 year olds say!
Each and every day. In fact, I wore a clean shirt, so I look like a mentch when the big moment is announced.
That, and I tried as best I could to rack up mitzvos and avoid averos. If the arrival is today, I want my scorecard to be a winner!
“hang out in the coffee room all day”
Can’t imagine it rivaling the coffe room I already hang out in. Plus the cig smoke would drive me nuts, so that’s a no-go.
Any other ideas?
Did’nt we already discuss this?
Ok, round 2:
Women may think the relationship is platonic
Men are uncapable of such a thing.
As Rabbi Wallerstein says, until you have a ring on your finger, and a kesubah in your hand, you have nothing.
” Isn’t this enough of a reason for us to work on it??? “
Wow, re-typed in all caps? I didn’t think it was that out of control. To be honest, 99% percent of the tribe is doing a fine job of compliance. Its the 1% that makes the news
Tell them you changed halls / menus. You are now making the affair in THEIR HOME and THEY are the caterers.
(and then, have you and all the other guests arrive at the hall of your original choice and party hardy!)
And Mazel Tov!
And as far as this jeprodizing your shidduch prospects, don’t let that worry you. It may close a door or two, but a working B-I-L will open doors for you that you’d have never been redt to otherwise.
Ignore the hype. Choose substance and you’ll live happily ever after.
Let the critics try this:
GET A JOB, and you’ll see its not the averah its made out to be.
As for poppa who is now a melamed, for him, I have nothing but respect. And if he thinks his working son-in-law is giving him agmas nefesh, check back with him in 6 months. He may have a new appreciation for what is considered agmas nefesh.
Working S-I-L will likely be the least of his problems.
“I don’t think it’s right to assume things about the OP, .. I say we drop it. “
Sorry, QB, I was not the one who threw the first punch. The OP said ” frum married guys .. tried chatting me up ” and that puts me and all the other “frum married guys” on the witness stand. So until we determine just how innocent Ms. OP was, I think the case is still open to discussion.
I travel to and from Manhattan by train, and see all sorts of Am Yisroel girls / women. Most of them dress and act in a manner befitting a bas Yisroel.
There are a few though that have a tug-of-war with their hemline (and seem to be losing). This, mind you, by girls davening with a bren. So I ask you, is a woman like that faultless?
True, we do not know what the OP comes to work like. But for her to launch a generalization about “frum married men” is also uncalled for.
OK, now I’m ready to drop it.
” Are you :?) “
Are you kidding? How many fathers can brag about a smart-alecky, uber-athletic, all around nice guy as their kid?
(And when you find someone who fits that m/o, please tell my father. He always wanted to get someone he could take places when he wanted to show everyone how great a kid he’s got.)
Since you asked (and I can never answer a question normally), try this and see how old you really are!
Google preventdisease.com and take the quiz to see how your lifstyle impacts your life expectancy.
I tried it once by choosing all the bad choices(Overweight, poor diet, no exercise, ect.)It added 5 years to my actual age, and projected a probable demise at around 71.
Then I recalculated the quiz with my real lifestyle, and came up with MUCH more encouaging results.
So, regardless what the calendar tells you, if you are as healthy as a teenager, you are ahead of those 10 years your junior if the yougsters cannot keep up with you.
” Ask away! “
Ok, how’s this:
I want to be percieved as an underacheiver/ shlemazel so I’m giving the fewest chores at home, yet be thought of as a go-getter /A++ superdude, so my wife will brag to our neighbors (both city and bungalow) about what a terrific guy I am.
What do you suggest?
I can sympathize with you MM22, because I was the child who was the recipent of 2 such phone calls when I was a kid. Both callers told my father, they do not think that little BPT is a good influence on thier sons. Yes, it hurts real bad.
But under the circumstances you described, consider yourself lucky that your child is protected from someone who says, “I’m going to kill you”. Its not a joke, and while not necessarily a real threat, it does reflect what the child is hearing / seeing at home.
The main thing for you to do now, is keep building your child’s self esteem. With time, he will overcome the obstacles he now faces, and then you / he will have the last laugh.
Oh, and by the way. The two kids for whom I was deemed to evil to play with?
I’ll not list specifics (after all, this is YWN) but suffice to say, they are not a source of nachas for their fathers (or children) right now.
“behavior or personality. Maybe it’s because she’s a good worker.”
If this is the attention she was getting, I doubt she would have had an issue.
I’m willing to bet, she got the other kind of attention (real or imagined, as is sometimes the case)
My question was, WHY did she get that sort of attention?
Between work, home, schools, shuls and bungalows, I have seen many women of all types and levels of frumkeit.
The ones who adhere to tznius like they mean it rarely get hassled.
Its ones who work the system, and play the “guidelines” game that get the treatment.
As a rule, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
Who here lived thru the shaitels from India story?
And who had to throw away a shaitel because of it?
(We did, to both questions)
Seems like the Baal Dovor knows he can get his hoof into the doors of frum homes by using the words “fashion” and “beauty”
” not for a bas yisroel. “
So, let me see if I have the facts down.
You came to work in a modest, pleated skirt, sensible flats, business appropriate blouse, hair in a pony, and only a touch of makeup, and the “frum married men” were on your case like pack of wolves?
Or is it perhaps time for a reality check?
I have worked in a mixed office for years. The people that attract trouble are the ones that invite it.
At your next job (may you land one soon), try asking your Rebbetizn or Sem Madricha for fashion tips.
Chances are, that will give you the respect you seek.
Its bad enough they earn more than their husband, now you want them to out-learn them too?
What’s next.. wearing pants? (oh, sorry.. they already wear the pants).
” I hope you’ve been able to successfully take steps to heal.:”
” getting help via chat rooms ”
AYC –
My incident was a very long time ago, and yes I got thru it. My parents gave us a very supportive home growing up, so I B’H got thru it without any lasting damage.
As far as what chat rooms can do, I see 2 things:
1) It allows victims to reach out to others that have been trhu the same (or similar) situation so they know they are NOT to blame ( a tactic that many abusers use to keep the victim quiet)
2) It puts abusers on notice that their actions WILL become known. It may not cure them, but it will make them think twice before acting, and if not, it will get them caught.
“but more likely a second wife.”
Not necessiarily. Mothers are sometimes so afraid of the beatings getting turned on them, that they look away.
Same goes for the other kind of abuse. They know, but are powerless to do anything about it. Fear is a huge factor, and cowards like wife / child beaters feed on it.
Sad, but hopefully this case will get the help thats called for.
All car companines allow you to take a test drive, so I see no reason that Chevy should be any different.
Oh, Shevy? Not Chevy?
Sorry, my bad.
“do you happen 2 b married?”
Are you kidding, Cucumber? Or are you new to the CR?
This might work:
Try to find a song that inspires you, and find the words to that song in the siddur or tehillim.
Then, learn the meaning of the words. That way, tefillah won’t be an empty, rote chore. It will be someting that springs to life and jumps off the page.
When we lain the tochacha, it sounds very scary. But sandwitched in between is a few lines of hope, that (when sung to the tune that the Piamentas made famous) it sounds very comforting.
Bottom line: prayer is communication. Do it in a way that helps you connect.
” I’m not a guy so I probably don’t get it. “
Wow, Queen B – Talk about an understatement.
Take it from a guy; you females have no idea what we face. Doesnt matter if we’re 5 or 105. Males are always at risk.
Do I think the cereal boxes need to be covered? Perhaps not.
Do I think its wise to take a male to a mall?
Lets put it this way; its a real risk.
Good question, and one I asked my wife, when I saw the Hollister bag.
And to think, people have an issue with the (V.S.) pink striped bag
Lesson # 1 –
Disclose too much info on the CR (like the fact that you / your friend just got engaged to boys from OOT, and that you are both moving OOT) and you are bound to provide people with the facts they need to connect the dots.
Lesson # 2 –
Absorb lesson # 1. Getting married means you will be privy to details you do NOT want to share with others. And if you think the people you share secrets with keep it to themselves, trust me, they don’t. They may not say, “such and such told me xyz” but when the say, “a friend told me” and the next day you drop a connecting hint, the facts all come together.
New reality: keep things you want kept secret to yourself.
Not to worry.
As long as your friends / neighbors stay in YWN, the Mods / Editors will see to it that anything unflattering will be removed from the Web.
And should your friends / nabes venture outside of YWN, you don’t need them as friends anyways.
Its not a crisis..unless its you / your child / your friend / your sibling that is still single.
(Honestly, Tomche.. where are you coming from?)
” my dad wears polo “
TAB – is your father in his mid-late 40s?
” and personally its my fave “
Its been 20+ years since I wore cologne. Are you telling me that Polo is still worn?
” nail polish seems to be a favorite joke topic of bpt.”
Oh, if only the Mods had let that one crack of mine slip past. That was destined to be a BPT classic.
Too bad its out of bounds. (and perhaps righfully so)
The other thing you can do is show them the film clip of the father hitting his daughter at the Kosel. Show them what anger looks like when caught on film. (see post “this is going around the world”
Shocking. But I’d venture a guess and say that if any of us saw our actions on film we’d be shocked at what we see.
Still, to hit a child that’s clearly a teen is (IMHO) grounds for arrest and removal / restraining order. And the way he shoved her to the ground? That’s subhuman.
” never even heard of him “
Google it. You don’t know what you’re missing.
Perhaps. But in the meantime, you are suffering. And if you’re not the only child at home, they are suffering as well.
Maybe you can record it and send it as an e-mail to them, with a note telling them how much you care about them, and why this is killing you.
“it can’t always be pastrami.”
This is true. For a deli salad, you need smoked turkey (preferably from Hod Golan)
“Corned beef has its merits”
Name one. I’d love to learn