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Uh Oh!!
Here comes AZ!!
cherrybim:
Well stated!!
SHIDDUCH REMINDER: BUYER BEWARE!!! Do your research carefully. A GREAT Yichus or perfect looking family could just be a charade. DON’T RUSH INTO MARRIAGE BECAUSE YOU ARE AFRAID OF SHIDDUCH STATISTICS.
If there is a history of abuse and estrangement in the family, check things out carefully, and go in with your eyes W-I-D-E open.
BP Totty:
There is a reason why Hashem chose to mention smack in middle of Maaseh Beraishis: “It’s not good for man to be alone”.
If you don’t understand what I’m getting at…GREAT!! The moderators won’t let me explain it to you further!
Kindly explain what you mean by ‘permitted’:
Are you concerned with legal issues, moral issues, ethical issues?
This year’s theme was the love Hashem has for every Jew. Hashem wants a relationship with us and affords us the opportunity to return in order to strengthen the relationship.
One reason why there are more divorces around Tishrei time, and after frum convention season is the lowering of the usual boundaries. When a husband and wife are seperate for eight weeks (wife in a bungalow and husband in the city), the relationship weakens. At frum conventions there are tremendous amounts of male/female mingling and interaction.
Quite simply: Ain apitropis le’arayos. Therefore, both summer bungalows and frum conventions MUST be eliminated.
rebbitzen:
Do you really assume that business executives are that dumb????
Come on now!
They know gantz fein what’s happening, but the residual business given to the company by these chevramen makes it worthwhile.
The Kaf HaChayim paskens that Kiddush is not said even when Yom
Kippur falls on Shabbos. But Yaale V’Yovo is added to bentching.
popa:
For the first time, we see eye to eye!!
mw13:
You might laugh at the difference between anger vs. rage. But, as a business owner who has to manage supervisors with varied temperaments, who in turn must supervise other employees with varied temperaments, you learn pretty quickly to seperate anger from rage.
Anger: Yelling, screaming, pounding a fist on a desk, is one thing.
Rage: Pushing people, slamming things down, throwing things, or balling a fist, are a completely different thing.
Stress can cause a person’s emotions to well up, but putting the emotion into action is inexcusable.
mw13:
There are 2 different things:
Ideally, a person should be chilled out and be mevater and remove the emotion of anger from his heart.
At the minimum a person should keep the rage (action response) aspect of anger in check, or it’s like idol worship.
Rav Solomon repeated this when he explained the intoduction line to the quote. The introduction line was, “IF ONE BREAKS A DISH OR GLASS IN ANGER. IT’S AS IF HE WORSHIPPED IDOLS. This shows that the anger spoken about was, the ACTION of anger NOT the emotion”.
I simply caled the action by it’s clinical name, RAGE.
emoticon613:
Thank you for making this valuable comment!
I know this might unplug a hornet’s nest, BUT…..
There is NO SUCH THING in Judaism called, ‘forgive and forget’, or ‘get over the anger”? The only people who use such terminology are the ABUSERS who seek to deny what the ‘weaker’ person should be feeling.
The onus for allowing the abused person to heal is on society at large to make sure that:
1] Once the abuse becomes known, the ABUSED is protected by the community.
2] The appropriate shilos should be asked by responsible community members to help guide the situation further.
3] If the psak is that the abused should sever all contact with the abuser, the ABUSED person’s needs and comforts trump those of the abuser.
4] The community should remove the ABUSER from ALL positions of power (both paid and unpaid leadership positions).
Anger is an emotion. The baalei mussar were not telling a person NOT to think in an emotional level. RAGE is the action taken by a person who’s emotion of anger takes control over the situation. This is what is what is referred to by ‘whoever gets angry is as if they worshipped idols’, NOT the emotion called anger.
Kasha:
Forgiven!
B’Zerizus next time. You and yours should have a Gut Yar!
Kesiva VeChasima Tovah to everyone.
Gezunt, nachas, hatzlachah in parnassah, and a year full of simcha for everyone. Both simchas that you already know will IY”H be happening this new year, AND those you can only hope for. Smile and realize that Hashem loves you. Spend some quality time with Hashem and may your tefillos be answered!
Rabbi Finkel from Chicago had a beautiful post on another website regarding kiruv and chinuch issues. Here is a portion relevant to this discussion:
blinky:
Sheep: to remember the Akeidas Yitzchak
Fish: Lots of fish and no Ayin Harah
gavra@work:
Baruch Hashem, tuition is no issue with me. If you’re trying to give hope to people, explain your intent. My comment last week which I apologized for, was trying to tell you that you sounded like you want to stick it to those who need tuition assistance most. It was just how it came across and that was my issue.
You didn’t insult me bichlal on any Yeshiva World thread.
The most offensive post was on Blinky’s thread, Moderator 80 edited the entire comment to make it sound like the poster was being friendly. Ah!! The power of the Send Post button! Moderator 80 knows good and well what this is all about.
Local gvmt: You will only be hired with politics and protektzia. When the wind blows the cradle rocks and out you go.
State gvmt: Unless you work in Indiana which is in the black financially, your job might only last until June 30 of the year.
Federal gvmt: Life time position with great benefits. They are therefore VERY picky. No pull or protektzia will help you.
The Federal government takes approx 2 months from application until interview. Another month until hire. THEN…..Another 2-3 months for a background check, since you have access to sensitive information. Some positions might let you start right away while doing the check. If the check fails, you are escorted out by security.
Decisions are VERY regulated with almost ZERO deviations from a rigid formula. Plus, veterans and former employees take precedence over new applicants.
hmy1:
Kindly elaborate about your experience so we can help you brainstorm other ideas with your skill set.
Social work is a nice field, BUT has the highest student loan default rate. The reason is because you don’t get an MSW and open a private practice off the bat. You first work in a non-profit organization. Non-profit, kishemo kain hu!!
Write a little about your skill set and industry you came from, and you’ll receive a better sense of direction from the CR>
Very well put!!
It goes without saying that if a person SAYS what’s bothering him/her, the klal MUST LISTEN AND RESPOND. The teen at risk and abuse victim are crying out loud, it’s time to hear them and help wipe their tears.
It’s a passuk in Koheles:
Vehakessef Yaaneh Es Hakol, which translates to money answers everything. This expression means that every drey and perversion can be twisted into a kosher thing if money is involved.
BP Totty:
I never saw any over the top comments from you on any threads I gravitate towards. Then again, I only get involved in certain discussions.
MODERATORS:
WHERE IS MODERATOR 80 hanging around these days??
Blinky:
I am not insulted by any of your comments. Most of the comments that I disagree with you about, are well written but show a lack of life experience. They are NOT written with ill intent.
The comment I was refering to WAS written on that specific thread you clearly remember, BUT you weren’t the offending party. The party involved as well as Moderator 80 CERTAINLY remember what was edited out. My clarification on a new thread as to why I was so insulted, was deleted.
The offending party K-N-O-W-S who they are.
so right:
“Out-of-towners flock to NY in droves”
The ONLY reason:
Their GPS was broken!!
gavrah_at_work:
I will n-e-v-e-r Chas Veshalom agree with you on your signature issue of tuition. When I fight you, it is done to wake you up that Hashem hears the cries of the poor. Have some more rachmanus in the new year.
AZ:
We agree to disagree!! If I ever laced into you, my apologies. You mean well, but you’re a handful!!
Moderator 80:
Hanistaros, only you saw!! Vehaniglos, you so expertly edited!! Hatzlachah in the coming year.
People who display contempt for and make entire groups of people into caricatures, make my blood boil. Only one member who will remain nameless owes me an apology. Vehamayvin Yavin.
Shana Tovah!
Agree!!
This is why Aish Hatorah is supported by the wider Jewish community. They accept people in with the knowledge that they won’t see a penny fortheir education, BUT when the graduates make money, Aish is at the top of their list, both for their education and to ensure that future Aish students will be treated the same way that they were.
Schools who are mentchlich with parents and students reap the benefits in the long run. The schools who pressure and extort as much as possible win in the short term, but once the family isn’t FORCED to pay, they’ll never see another red cent.
Your question therefore runs deeper:
IF A SCHOOL IS SO DISRESPECTED IN THE COMMUNITY THAT THEY CAN’T RAISE THE REQUISITE FUNDS TO ENABLE ALL CHILDREN WHO NEED FINANCIAL ASISTANCE TO ATTEND IS SUCH A SCHOOL SERVING A PURPOSE, OR IS IT NEEDED FOR THE PRINCIPAL’S EGO?
charliehall:
BUT…
Since money is often given and an audit showing the institution is in substantial non-compliance with terms of the grant comes later on. Therefore, unless the Board of Directors are willing to personally vouch for orgainizational compliance, where they are liable for deviations from the grant proposal, NO PUBLIC MONEY SHOULD BE GIVEN.
I don’t begrudge the handful of Jewish Educational Institutions who’s Board’s would be willing to do this.They have nothing to hide. However, these institutions are to the left of the Jewish organization advocating for Public Funding for Jewish schools.
charliehall:
Personally, I am strongly opposed to Public Funding of ANY Private Educational Institution, and have made no secret of this to the elected officials. These are my two strongest objections that resonate across the aisle:
1. Every time the government is generous and foolish enough to carve some money out to help Private Organizations do the work of the Public, misplaced advocacy takes place. It’s inevitible that Frum organizations jump in and make a Chillul Hashem. See: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=68891
2. Public funding for education means that the Private Educational Institution DELIVERS a quality SECULAR EDUCATION as mandetaed by State standards. How many Lakewood mesivtas will offer three hours of QUALITY secular education as established by the State? Private institutions that don’t wish to abide by the terms of the PUBLICLY FUNDED GRANT should not ask for it to begin with, and don’t complain when BIG BROTHER WATCHES OVER YOU!
Feif Un:
Rabbi Bender is a powerhouse. He should have health, happiness, and success ad meah v’esrim. V’Ad Bichlal!!
Guess who is up day and night raising the money?? RABBI BENDER Bichvodo U’beatzmo!!
Feif Un:
The concept of employment assumes an AT WILL relationship. The employer or employee can terminate the relationship AT WILL. The employee is not a slave, and the employer is not stuck with a ‘lemon’ employee.
This is a STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE in most schools under the Torah UMesorah umbrella:
1. When a school falls behind on paychecks for TWO MONTHS, they warn their employees that disaster is upon them, and ask for employee patience and cooperation.
2. If a school fails to find resources and has already announced their situation to their employees, they have two weeks to make a determination about financial abilities.
3. If after these two weeks, it is apparent that the resources won’t be granted, the school is to offer any teacher unable to afford to wait for payment, the option to remove themselves from employment. THESE EMPLOYEES ARE GRANTED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS.
4. All monies raised MUST go first to those employees who opted out.
5. School administration and board of directors are to meet with staff every two weeks with updates.
These guidelines allow the staff to make a reasonable judgment whether they are employed or are volunteering! Any employee who agrees to these terms, has to be a team player and stick with the administration and board. As long as the school was honest, the school is in the CLEAR, because it was the staff person’s personal choice to stick with it.
BP Totty:
With the proliferation of teaching courses, there are Baruch Hashem many CAPABLE and Cracker Jack rebbeim chomping at the bit for an opportunity. Today’s Educated NEW rebbeim are not like how it was even ten years ago. The schools should have NO qualms about opening the door an letting the ‘striking rebbeim’ see the Egress!!! Every Rebbe understands the joke!!
gavra_at_work:
Who has the crystal ball to see whether “It’s expected that the child won’t work anyways”?
How will this child who society has raised it’s nose to and determined that they are “expected that they won’t work anyways” live when he grows up?
The hashkafic outlook you present is precisely what has gotten the Mosdos HaChinuch into the current financial mess to begin with. There are some major Jewish philanthrophists who will NEVER pay anything above what the school’s bills for tuition, to any Jewish school. The reason is because of the treatment their parents received at the hands of the tuition commitee members, and the “expectation, they will never succeed anyways” society ingrained into them.
There is a Din and a Dayan for those who use the faulty crystal ball approach you speak so highly about.
Editor:
Okay! Okay!
I’m too hot today. My computer is actually smelling funny today!
I’ll try and take a chill!
arc:
You’re right!!
Most other companies and industries won’t get away with not paying employees. However, Rav Moshe was QUITE emphatic that rebbeim are NOT TO STRIKE.
EDITED
gavra_at_work:
I have tried my hardest to not respond to any of your posts since the discussion last year about the same topic. Today, you have pressed the button and will get a response:
you suggest a child be rejected for a lack of money? you say a family should choose between food on the table vs. tuition? you suggest a family homeschool their kids?
Here’s a sweet secret as to why the wealthy benefactors of a city pay the tuitions of the poor families. It’s not for the sake of the schools. It’s for the sake of the poor family’s children future. Without formal education these children will be the next generation of poor families unable to send children to school. The tuition is paid in order to BREAK THE CYCLE OF POVERTY.
This should be the priority of every donor. NO MONEY SHOULD GO TO INSTITUTIONS OUTSIDE OF YOUR CITY, UNLESS EVERY INSTITUTION IN THE CITY IS ABLE TO WITHSTAND THE FINANCIAL BURDENS.
EDITED
For a rebbe to strike for BACKPAY OWED, Rav Moshe has already paskened NO.
For a rebbe to strike about a PAY CUT, certainly NO. There are ten capable people to take over any desk vacated by ANY rebbe. If the rebbe feels his s’char betailah is worth more than his salary, kol hakavod, QUIT and try out the REAL job market.
Strikes and Unions are NOT the way Rebbeim should be acting. If this is their mentality, they should be in another profession.
According to Rav Amnon Yitzchak all “WITCH SINGERS” are really “SNAKE CHARMERS” who have no chailek in Olam Haba.
dveykus613: WELCOME ABOARD!!
This is exactly where the problems lies: Creative minds are not invited into the inner circle of the organization that prides itself as the voice of the gedolim.
squeak:
There is NO VALID REASON why the status quo must be sustained. The system was broken and as predicted the recession has forced a correction in the way the community thinks.
The reality is, there is no school or institution that is too big to fail. There is no inyan to have an able-bodied person with a decent mind sit and drink coffee all day. I’m in full agreement that married men should learn in kollel when they get married. But, by the beginning of Shana Revi’i close to 85% of them are burnt out and spending more time shmoozing about yenem than about Abaye and Ravah.
BMG of Lakewood needs support, fine. But, the Roshei Yeshiva must give their word that the only people who will get money from the public’s tzeddakah money are those who are ACTIVELY LEARNING and are not spending more than five minutes every 1.25 hours away from their seat.
There are many pressing community needs and tzedakkah issues that are more of a priority than paying for “Starbuck’s taste testers” as Rabbi Finkel in Chicago would call these burnt out kollel people.
Rosh Chabura:
STOP RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE!!
1. In Chicago more than 90% of the school parent body WORKS. The Kehilla Fund merely substitutes the missing amount and is a lump sum per school attendance. It is not earmarked towards person A or B.
2. In situations where the family will sink financially there are a few families who are major donors to the school anyways, and they cover the costs of those families. Chinuch is NOT FREE in Chicago.
3. Chicago contracts out tuition decisions. Each parent must send in their Tax Returns to the contractor who has a computer algorithm that sets a tuition rate. This takes the ability of one domineering tuition commitee member from taking revenge against families he doesn’t get along with.
4. Any parent who has the chutzpah to call up a school and demand that another child NOT BE ACCEPTED, or ask for another child to be thrown out………………(My wife didn’t let me finish my thought!!).
5. Schools that treated their alumni well during their stay in the school, and treat the current children well ARE NOT SUFFERING FINANCIALLY DESPITE THE ECONOMIC DOWNTURN. If you treat them well, they’ll treat you well back. It’s just that simple.
Definitely, Absolutely, Positively NO!!
Rav Yitzchak is a power house kiruv guru, BUT is not listened followed by most of his most tzebrenteh chevra. He certainly won’t reach and be accepted by the Hamon Am.
One would have hoped that you did your due diligence before signing up for training.
I wish you hatzlachah in doing what you obviously enjoy doing.
However, on a practical level:
* How will you be paid for by your clientele? These services are NOT covered by Medicaid/Medicare. Nursing homes will not hire for a nonpayable service. Most insurances don’t pay for such services either. Charging people out of pocket and collecting from them is a road fraught with heartache.
* What clientele are you catering to? Male/female, seperate/mixed.
* Relaxation therapy generally needs a pleasant environment with meticulous detail of highly professional interior designers. Do you have the MONEY for such an investment?
If this is something you truly desire to go into, Hatzlacha. If you feel defensive or insulted by any of the above VERY BASIC questions, I would strongly recommend rethinking things.
Rent a bungalow, or even a house and cook your own food. Check out VRBO.com, or http://www.reservekosher.com.
Hotel Holiday Programs and Reasonable should NOT be said in the same breath. PLUS, despite the advertisements to the contrary, there is nothing ruchnius or heimishe about it.
The main thing is to be Ach Someiach!
Go to your local Young Israel or shul that builds a sukkah for the shul kiddush. Their sukkahs are very big, and built with the understanding that people who don’t have access to a sukkah, can use theirs.
Have a little pushcart or stroller for food (as long as you use an eruv) and have fun. Or, if you are in a small, intimate, kiruv community join their communal events, or get invited out.
This is beauty of jeff Seidel and the Machlis family in Israel. They make everyone feel at ease and let them enjoy ‘winging it’. Be flexible and have fun. My wife is laughing how mellow I am getting in my old age!! But, that’s how you stay young.
If you have children to send to school and want a nice out-of-town community with great commuting to D.C. and Baltimore move to SILVER SPRING. Think about your children, v’hamayvin yavin. It’s a much safer and better bet!
If YOU are the one paying their living expenses and they make a costly mistake which YOU will have to pay to bail them out of. By all means let them know.
If THEY pay their bills and they make a costly mistake. If they ask for your input, by all means give them your honest opinion. If they don’t ask, you shouldn’t tell.
If you disagree and think that they are mistaken with where they daven, send their kids to school, go on vacation, etc. These issues are NOT costly mistakes for you to have an opinion to offer.
Yes, it’s a culmination of a number of events.
BUT….
This culminating event of the white donkey and shofar blowing, etc. can happen at any moment now. That is what the ANI MAAMIN means.
mosheemes2:
What kind of hakaras hatov do you expect the suicide VICTIM to have from his community?
His community obviously abandoned him, saw him on the downslide but willingly chose to do nothing, and made him feel like an oismentch. Where does hakaras hatov come in??
People who realize that in the eys of their community they are of no greater worth than a cockroach slated for extermination, don’t feel very good. This is why when I read stories of frum suicides, overdoses, and frum teen criminals, I get furious at their communities THAT ALLOWED AND ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED SUCH A TRAGEDY TO HAPPEN.
The community is ‘oiver’ on murder, not the suicide victim being ‘oiver’ on suicide. For every one finger pointing at the victim, four fingers point back at the community.
I am terribly distraught over the tragic loss of Moshe Menorah and family members.
It is no secret that Moshe gave tzeddakah unselfishly with no agendas. He did not live an extravagant life. He flew a plane as a convenient mode of transportation, no different than a fellow reader driving a Chevrolet. He was a great man.
Sadly, some of the Yeshiva World accountants would say that a personal plane is lavish and excessive. All you people do is create din against those who do things above your expectations. How many more times will there be titles about Mansions, Excessive Spending, Snobby Billionaires? Realize the damage you might cause.