7:45PM EST: Three people have just been shot in Boro Park at 46th Street near 10th Avenue.
UPDATE 7:46PM EST: Dozens of Hatzolah members have been dispatched, along with three ambulances being rushed to the scene.
UPDATE 7:48PM EST: NYPD is advising that they have the suspect in custody, and the weapon has been recovered.
UPDATE 7:51PM EST: NYPD has called a Level 1 Mobilization for crowd control.
UPDATE 7:56PM EST: A highly credible source has confirmed to YWN that all three victims are members of Shomrim.
UPDATE 7:59PM EST: A 4th person is reportedly shot at location as well. It is unknown if the 4th victim is the suspect in custody.
UPDATE 8:10PM EST: All 4 shooting victims were members of Shomrim.
UPDATE 8:11PM EST: Hatzolah has transported all victims to Lutheran Trauma Center in stable condition.
UPDATE 8:12PM EST: The suspect was in fact shot as well. The total number of people shot is 4 Shomrim members, and 1 suspect.
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Click on this exclusive image to enlarge [BSSP Coordinators Shmilu Follman, Yanky Daskal, (VICTIM) Motty Perl, NYPD Inspector Spraige of the 66 Pct, Simcha Bernath Rabbi Meyer Leifer Administration Liason of Lutherin Medical Center – to the Jewish Community.]
UPDATE 10:32PM EST FROM NY POST: Four members of a volunteer Jewish security force were shot in Brooklyn earlier tonight, police said.
A man believed to be the shooter was in police custody, cops said.
All of the victims, whose names were not released, were expected to survive, cops said.
One victim was shot in the neck; two in the hand, and one in the stomach.
The violence happened at about 7:45 p.m. near the intersection of 49th Street and Tenth Avenue in Borough Park The members of the Shomrim Patrol were following a car they considered suspicious, sources said.
The unarmed volunteers confronted the man at a red light — and he opened fire, sources said.
Shomrim members were able to grab the shooter and held him for police, sources said.
UPDATE 11:43PM EST FROM NY1: Four people were shot Thursday night following a bizarre chain of events in Brooklyn.
It happened shortly before 8 p.m. along 46th street in Borough Park.
Officials with the Volunteer Orthodox Security Force, Shomrim say several of the group’s members spotted a man who had been exposing himself to some of the neighborhood children.
They chased the man and had him boxed in near 965 46th Street.
Members of Shomrim tried to wrestle him to the ground — that’s when the suspect allegedly pulled a gun and began firing.
Four were wounded before more of their fellow community patrol members were able to subdue him.
“When we tackled him to the ground he was shooting. Then we tackled the gun out of his hand,” said Shomrim Coordinator Yanke Daskal.
“The notion that you don’t know when you’re trying to stop some one and trying to protect people — you never know what’s going to happen. This just proves how brave these folks are that they do this kind of work,” said Public Advocate Bill de Blasio.
A gun was recovered at the scene.
The shooter was taken into police custody; charges against him are pending.
The four victims are expected to be okay.
UPDATE 1:05AM EST FROM NY TIMES: Four members of an Orthodox Jewish volunteer patrol in Brooklyn were shot Thursday night after they followed and confronted a man in a vehicle who had been acting suspiciously, the police and witnesses said.
The men, members of the Brooklyn South Shomrim Patrol, a licensed unarmed civilian group, were shot about 8 p.m. near 49th Street and 10th Avenue in Borough Park, the police said. None of their wounds were considered life-threatening.
The man in the car was also hit in the arm by a bullet from a gun he had fired, and he was seized by patrol members, Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said late Thursday night.
The police said the man, whose name was not immediately released, had an “extensive” criminal record.
Members of the security patrol said that the man had been reported sitting in his car and doing inappropriate things while leering at groups of young girls on Aug. 25, and that they had given his license plate number to the police.
They said they had chased and tried to apprehend him, and had made a plan to confront him.
On Thursday night, they said, they spotted the man driving up 46th Street in a silver Hyundai after residents called their hot line. Members of the patrol began following him in an unmarked car, and contacted Shomrim members in other vehicles to help box him in, said Sam Follman, a coordinator for the group.
“He noticed we were behind him, and he was scared,” Mr. Follman said. “He’s a known perp to us.”
As the man drove along 46th street between Ninth and 10th Avenues, he had to stop behind a double-parked car on a one-way street.
“When he saw he was blocked, he got out and started running,” Mr. Follman said. After a brief chase, members of the patrol converged on him from several directions, tackled him and forced him to the ground. The man then pulled a .22-caliber gun and started firing, Mr. Follman said.
“Probably he got off five, six shots,” he said. “While he was on the floor, he kept shooting.”
According to the police, four members of the group were hit. They were taken to Lutheran Medical Center. Mr. Follman identified the injured patrol members as Abe Kaztow, a baker, who was hit in the hand; Motty Brauner, a dry cleaner, who was hit in the neck; Joel Klein, an insurance salesman, who was shot in the abdomen; and Motty Pearl, also a baker, hit in the hand.
At a news conference at the hospital, Mr. Kelly said the suspect had a record that included arrests for public lewdness, gun possession and robbery. The Shomrim has been patrolling Hasidic communities in Brooklyn for more than 20 years, and works closely with neighborhood precincts. Mr. Kelly said the police “have a strong relationship” with the group.
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39 Responses
the situation is getting from bad to worse, first they shoot one person, then a bank robbery, then 3 ppl shot, oy vey this is crazy, the courts should put such ppl away for life, or maybe the electric chair
I knew this was coming after the incident by the bank in Boro Park, where a shomrim member picked up a radio pointed it at a suspect and told him “drop the gun or I’ll shoot”. The suspect subsequently shot at the Shomrim member. The first thing a Hatzolah member is taught, is check to make sure the scene is safe before entering. As a yid, that seems pretty silly, shouldn’t trying to save a persons life be the first thing? The founders of the EMS system rightfully so hypothesized that if the EMS member is injured, it doesn’t help anybody. To all Shomrim members: PLEASE! Nobody is helped, if you get hurt in any way shape or form. Use caution when interfering with a suspect. You do such great and important work, and we need you guys around for a while. I would like to wish a refuah Shleimah to all the people who were hurt today.
I’m on the scene. Chopper hovering right above us, though people are saying they caught the shooter.
No word on the condition of those shot.
Thank You Rudy Guiliani for your great leadership and crackdown on crime, we appreciate it.
At the same time, Thank You Mr. Hussein Obama for wrecking up our economy like never seen before. Next time, mention the TWO TRILLION DOLLARS you put to waste on the economy before stating that the money which effectively removed a reckless dictator and got us an ally in a strategic locating was a waste (and a fraction of what you spent).
As the saying goes:
RECESSION: When your neighbor loses his job.
DEPRESSION: When you lose your job.
RECOVERY: When Obama loses his job!
And last but not least. Thank You Mr. Mayor for putting the mosque and golfing with the president a priority before our safety!
My goodness, we don’t realize how the Shomrim really do put their lives on the line to protect us. May Hashem protect them and give those who them a refuah shleima.
must hock your really shouldnt talk you sound smarter quiet! the shomrim members do great work and should be carrying guns also……. the best witness is a dead witness…. everyone should start carrying locked and loaded
If the suspect was indeed shot, big Al Sharpton will be heard from and a law suit will follow.
#6
I agree just like in Israel!!
Mocking a gun is the last thing too do especially when your advertising what you do on a video.. unfortunately this is a result. may our members have a complete refuah and use better judgement… Let the cops intervene they have bullet proof vests
If a perv is on the loose in our community we have to take him down at all costs.. How would the members know he has a gun when approcahing the car?
Borough Park, NY – NYPD of the 66th Precinct are on the scene for shooting that involved a Boro Park Shomrim member.
Police are calling for a level-1 mobilization for the shooting at 46th Street and 10th Avenue.
Hatzolah on the scene, all injuries are minor, mobilization has been called for crowd control, police have perpetrator in custody.
4 Borough Park Shomrim Patrol members were shot, 1 in the neck, 1 in the stomach and 2 in the hand.
NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly and NYPD Chief of Department are at Lutheran Medical Center emergency room with the victims.
And btw I agree with the posters above. Shomrim was founded when crimes was high and police response was slow. They initially started as a patrol force simply patroling the streets and holding down suspects until NYPD arrival. Perhaps due to immaturity (no offense) it turned into a group of ‘Impersonator police officers’. Marked cars, command centers, vests and high-volume radios and the likes. It may be some help to catch suspects, such as a teenage boy stealing bikes or a shoplifting thief. However, due to lack of training, armed robbers and professional burglars don’t back off. Are we to wait for a tragedy Chas VShalom? I thought that they learned a lesson from the bank robbery, obviously they didn’t. They should not play ‘big’ and go back to the old-fashion way. Follow a thief by maintaining a distance without flashing lights and blaring sirens while waiting for the PD. May they all have a Refuah Shleimah!
And as usual…. The NYPD cops on their RANT are laughing, cursing and enjoying the fact that the Shomrim were shot.
Never mind that 4 cops could’ve been shot instead.
That’s how much they love us.
3borohocker, let me clarify: when i say these ppl I mean these perpetrators a.k.a. the suspects. By all means the shomrim are the best people, we all owe them big time for keeping us safe!!
It’s not a Hatzoloh rule, it’s a test question on the EMT and medic exam. I have been at shooting/stabbing situations and we sit in the ambulance untill the police officers arrive and say that the scene is safe. This is an unfortunate situation and I can understand that a yid would be moser nefesh for another. But it doesn’t serve any purpose to risk your own safety and than you loi oleinu, have many victims, that’s the police depts job. I am not a Rav, but I recall a halochah stating that your own life comes before another. It makes my blood boil when I see emergency vehicles, even with lights & sirens, jumping stop signs. They must make a full stop and see whether there are any idiots that are not yielding to them and we do not chas vesholem risk your own and your families life to get to a scene that may not even be a life threatening situation. I have had members cars jump red lights, and cut off my ambulance, when I had the right of way, just to get to the scene first.
Why they doesnt just get some guns so they are safer. And thanks GOD for Joey Espo at the ER for he will put the savage in a good arm lock and crush his brains out. The meshugeh gunman was trying to kill good boys for nothing but doing their lousy job patrolling the streets. Everyday they put their life on the line for us, got shot and beaten and no thanks. the city must give them all their pensions now since they can not work on the force any more. Joey Fox promised SWAT weapons for them, I remember,he was the top commander of all of the boroughs, Status Command 1. That is now the new top directive to fortwith the weapons to the members of service in need.
I was very dissapointed and shocked at the praise Commisioner Kelley had for BP Shomrim this past Tuesday at the pre High Holiday meeting of Police Clergy. There is no doubt in my mind, that his public praise of what these irresponsible members did to put there lives mamesh in sakanah, created within the BP Shomrim a feeling of fake and dangerous gevurah. Who gave them the right to pave the way for their wives to become Almonos and their children Yesomim. Their feeling of Gayvah has brought them to an unprecedented level of Kochi ve’Otzem Yodi. That they can take their radios and point at a person with a gun and go bang-bang your dead. Now who is wallowing in the pain and humiliation of such outright stupidity and madness? There is no doubt, that if chas ve’shalom any of these BP Shomrim would have been killed Hashem Yishmor, they would have faced a bais Din Shel Maaleh confronting them with the fact that they were mischayev benafshom.
No, they do not deserve any praise. No, they should not be looked upon as heroes. The Brisker rav zt”l said, ven a mentsch shpilt nisht genuk ven er is young, vet er shipeln ven er is alt. These members should be releived of their relationship with Shomrim, and more responsible chashuver normal people should replace them. The same should apply to the Shomrim hanhala that seem to encourage this type of madness. AH! VOS TOOT NIT KAVOD.
RSG, I pray you & your family are always safe & you never need Shomrim. I had to call them out once, when I was a victim of a gang initiation activity…I was never so terrified, being trapped in my car with angry “locals” surrounding me & cat-calling. Thank G-d they were there in minutes, way before the police who told me it was all my fault for not recognizing gang initiations!!!
These young men are not lunatics, nor are they gayveh-driven. They are devoted to the welfare of the community & BRAVE, & it’s more than can be said for you.
What are their names for Tehilim?
Good questions posted here: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/shomrim-member-shot-whats-your-thoughts
WOW, some of you are really messed up… This guy was driving on the sidewalk trying to gets kids attention and getting undressed in public. He’s a known perp who has been followed once before and of course “The NYPD” never showed up, well they did show up but once he’s gone he is gone. What happened this time is that a shomrim coordinator asked on the radio “members please handle it the professional way, I activated PD just follow till PD gets here” and what happens next? This perp started driving up on the sidewalk when the traffic gets heavier.. How about he would of killed a child?! (well most of you don’t care others kids that much -off topic for now) so who do we blame for putting their lives at risk? SHOMRIM!! [Vodka isn’t that bad]
Maybe the Shomrim need to wear a special vest to protect themselves. The Shomrim are special people who go out on a limb to protect the community. May Hashem help them recover.
#17, RSG. YOU ARE A SICK PERSON!!! to even contemplate writing something like this… By the way, I think you would make the perfect candidate as a Shomrim member…LOL
At this time while everyone is trying to figure out who, what when why.
We must not forget the NYPD who constanly day in and out put’s their lives on the line for our community, and every community in NY.
To the ladies and gentelmen of the NYPD we say THANK YOU !!
This is something that you may not hear often enough, but we do appreciate all that you do.
We appreciate that you understand and cater to the religious needs of the community even though it may make your job more difficult at times.
As the Jewish New Year approaches we only wish you and your families Good tidings, health, wealth and well being. Get home safe.
Buckle up & advise when 84 🙂
Guys lets not forget that without the cooperation of the NYPD. Shomrim would not be able to operate the way they do today. Thank you to all the folks at the NYPD.
We know what the Shomrim did was dangerous but sometimes the adreniline kicks in and you don’t really have control.
True they should have waited for NYPD but what would you do if you knew a pervert was on the loose ?
To the fella’s @ NYPD we know “the job” gives you limited resources and you can’t be everywhere all the time.
Thank you for all that you do.
it looks like dinkins is back!
17 RSG: You seem like trying to imply that your comments are originating out of genuine concern for the physical safety of our Shomrim, yet you degrade and humiliate these [wounded] people publicly throughout your post and label them baalei gaava and shpeilers? If you were really concerned with their personal safety and you feel you have some wise advice for them, then you should go yourself to Shomrim hanhala and voice privately with them your concerns; however, an anylasis of your post seems to imply that you’re really motivated by a self driven desire to feel satisfaction of power through degrading and humiliating other people, all under the desguise of giving musser lsheim shamayim. Shame on you less than a week before Rosh Hashana to be malbin pnei chaveirecha b’rabim w/o any conscience!
On behalf of all the rest of us normal civilized people, we would like to express publicly our great appreciation to our wounded Shomrim for your mesiras nefesh on our behalf, and may you all have a speedy recovery and ksiva v’chasima tova in the zechus of being osek b’tzarchei tzibbur!
@y2k, I’d let the pervert loose and run for cover. The NYPD is one of the best police force in the world – leave it up to them. Think if you were the wife or child of a Shomrim member. Would you rather want your husband or father shot (and in more unfortunate situation killed r”l) or a suspected pervert on the loose?
Are these two bakers the original “Bakery Boys”?
#17 RSG. We all wait for the day to come when u will post here that without the Shomrim u would of been dead! Wait & see!!
We all wish these brave Shomrim volunters a Refuah Shelaima Bimhayra!
Now that we have seen three incidents in which guns were used in Boro Park, It’s about time to arm selected Shomrim with handguns. They shouldn’t ever be placed in a position where a criminal could slaughter them.
I have a lot of respect and appreciation for what Shomrim do. –
HOWEVER, – I really think perhaps as the economy gets worse, and the trash on the street get more desperate, it is time to re-think whether it is worth it for husband and father to risk his life to prevent a stolen bicycle or hubcap.
I am all for private citizens LEGALLY being armed (at least in their homes) BUT…
for UNarmed young Jewish guys, with very minimal training, NO weapons, NO bullet-proof vests to be out on the streets confronting criminals…
I think we need to ask a shaiyla.
The strength of the Shomrim response in this case was probably directly related to the nature of the crime, which the Jewish community rightfully abhors, and which the rest of society just laughs at since it is not considered violent.
Although I am not a frequent poster, I feel like I need to weigh in based on some of the above comments.
While I agree that Shomrim provides a vital community service, they should not be endangering their lives and the lives of others by confronting dangerous criminals. I dont know if the woman would have been held at gunpoint if not for Shomrim chasing him, I do know that 4 shomrim members would be home with their families had they not confronted this nut job, I also know they are very lucky to be alive. You don’t know if someone has a weapon or not until it is too late. It’s one thing to confront someone stealing a bike, its another league to chase down bank robbers and felons. One can get cocky and overconfident by confronting a non violent petty thief and then not think twice before chasing a felon.
A volunteer patrol should do nothing more than follow from a distance without alerting their presence to the perpetrator while advising the police of their location. Using a fake gun (or a radio antenna) against someone with a real gun is not heroism, it is stupidity and is only through shomer pisoyim hashem that there weren’t devastating circumstances. The bank has insurance, leave the apprehension to the FBI and PD.
To those suggesting Shomrim should carry guns, please know that a private citizen licensed to carry a gun, it is for his/her personal protection only, and does not make you a FREELANCE POLICE OFFICER. You have no right to confront criminals, detain, and arrest except (depending on State Laws)to prevent to commission of a felony. This does not apply to someone fleeing since there is no longer a danger to oneself or the victim. It’s not like they were trying to prevent a rape, they were pursuing someone on suspicion of lewdness. Adrenaline in overdrive.
If NYS has such a thing as a peace officer, constable, or the like, perhaps they should complete the proper training and certification, that would be a different story.
This week it appears, there was no reason for this recklessness.
Shomrim Guys:
You guys are great and we love you.
V’nishmartem M’eod L’nafshoseichem trumps chesed. Chamira Sakana M’issura!
Please be careful.
Don’t chase perps openly, don’t enter dark alleys without knowing if someone is lurking with a gun. You’re no match for someone on drugs. Be the eyes and ears for us, leave the police work for the police.
Keep up your great work, but I beg you don’t endanger your lives. Klal yisroel and your families need you around for many years to come.
Your brother.
YeshivaRodefKesef says: “…they should not be endangering their lives and the lives of others by confronting dangerous criminals.”
Theoretically, you’re right. But in the real world, the police do not arrive in time to save anyone who is in imminent danger. They arrive in time to write a nice report, which goes into the crime statistics.
The Shomrim fill this gap, just as hatzoloh fills the gap of slow response times by EMS ambulances. City workers just do not care enough to do things in a hurry.
The truth is that, if qualified people would be licensed to carry handguns, these criminals would not be so bold in attacking citizens on the streets and in the schools.
It is only because they know that the citizenry is unarmed that they they have the confidence to carry out these henious crimes.
I read that there is a city in Florida that MANDATED a weapon for every citizen, and the crime rate dropped precipitously. (See John Lott’s study “More guns, less crime”).
they need bulletproof vests.
how exactly is a bulletproof vest going to help a neck gsw or a hand gsw? shomrim needs to learn basic head to head combat or at least somthing that they could use to control a situation………… if they “tackled” the guy and he was still able to reach for a gun and pull it out and still be able to let off 10 rounds there must be a problem…. you cant bring a “radio” to a gun fight….. they do amazing work and should keep it up but some tactical defense should be taught……
for all negative people!!!
I guess u have never used shomrim before be thankful for that. I hope That g-d won’t have to make you use shomrim that you should appreciate they work!!!!
They held the guy down because they didn’t want people on the street as little kids and adults should get shot so they took the shots for them!!!
That what shomrim is all about they protect our community!!!!
They even took shots for us!!!!
Be thankful that we have such a org as shomrim in our community!!!!!!!!!
And pray for our heros should have a speedy recovery!!!!