It’s interesting. Yesterday was the yartzeit of Rav Yakov Yosef, zatzal. Reb Yoel Teitelbaum zatzal had spoken of his gadlus and said that anyone who davens at his tzion would certainly find his yeshua. His kever, in Union Field Cemetary (Queens) was PACKED all day with mispalelim, mostlty hasidim, mostly satmar. It leaves one to wonder why these people did not join in those ranks, when it was their own Rebbe who had advised them to do so.
#1 # 2
The Holy Satmar Rebbe zatzal took the decision to demonstrate very seriously, and it is known that he fasted on that day, and used to daven special tefilos that only a Kiddush hashem should come out of it. So maybe those Satmar Chasidim you saw yesterday couldn’t make it to Washington D.C., so they opted instead to go pray for the success of the demonstration.
To all of the posters yelling chillul hashem , please be advised that in his Holy Sefer V’yoel Moshe, the Satmar Rebbe clearly explained and proved that it is a KIDDUSH HASHEM to protest the brazen uprooting of the holy torah and against the creation of the State of Israel before Moshiach .
The Sefer was published almost 50 years ago (1961) and has not been refuted by anyone.
interesting… he only says that he’ll suceed with the help of various govermantal agencies and politicians. He doesn’t mention with the help of Hashem.
“Ultra Chillul Hashem”–modiinbob (N0. 1)
Unfortunately, there are too many people like you–well-meaning people–who are ignorant of Halacha.
These protests agains the Israeli Government’s atrocities are being encouraged by the Gedolei Torah of Eretz Yisroel–true Talmidei Chachomim. I think it is safe to say that they know the severe penalties of creating a Chilul Hashem, that they would never authorize any action that could be considered a Chilul Hashem.
When Jews protest the desecration of Jewish gravesites, they demostrate that they honor the Jewish dead and cry out at the desecration of their gavesites. All decent people, no matter what their religion or nationality, can relate to such a demonstration and respect such demonstrators.
It is the Israeli Government that is creating the Chilul HaShem, by trampling on everything that is dear and holy, not only to Orthodox Jews, but also to all decent religious people who consider Eretz Yisroel to be holy soil.
I refer not only to the desecration of Jewish gravesites, but also to the public displays of immorality (Toeva parades) that are being conducted in Tel Aviv and this Jerusalem in the summer months–SHAME!!!
deepthinker: however, the true gedolie tora in chutz laaretz and in eretz yisrael are against it. r’eliyashiv would never permit such a thing and many other true gedolie torah (needless to say all the sfardi and mizrachi gdolim are against or are they not true gedolie torah)
I haven’t seen the Delaware, Erie, or Iroquois Indians demonstrating against New York City built on top of their grave sites… I’m certain there’s a difference somewhere, other than the obvious.
yechezkel89 (NO.6)
How do you know that Rav Elaishiv wouldn’t permit it?
One of the spokemen for this demonstration is Dr. Bernard Fryschman, of Agudas Yisroel. He is, certainly, no Satmarer. He is involved in saving Jewish cemeteries in Europe.
Certainly, no Godol, regardless of his affilation, would accuse Rav Schmidl of Asra Kadisha, Rav Weiss, and the Dayanim of the Edah Hachareidis of creating a Chilul Hashem.
#3 – mogold – thank you for the explanation. You truly clarified their perspective for me. However, is it possible that these protests would be in place if they were in Eretz Yisroel? What is the point of demonstrating in America, in a place that is growing dangerously with anti-semitism and in front of a president whose concerns for our safety are clearly in question (this isn’t about medinas yisroel, I’m talking about his apparent disaffinity to klal yisroel).
Big Deal! Last week Agudah was threating public protests against Israel in the US if the Emanuel mothers were arrested. By the Gaza withdrawal the Mizrachi organized public demonstrations against Israel throughout the world. Lets be honest everyone demonstrates against Israel and in front of goyim if the issue gets their gut.
Satmar & Neturi Karta had no right to take Yidden away from learning in NYS to demonstrate against the State of Israel in Washington DC while the PM of the State of Israel visited the US President. This is the Three Weeks by what right did they have to create a chilul hashem , Israel & the Jewish poeple have enough serious pikuach nefesh problems to deal with & these misguided zealots have to castigate the “Zionist Medinah” for a private developer not treating graves that are not known to be Jewish with the respect that is due known Jewish graves. I can not picture any true gadol who would favor such demonstrations against other Jews in the US Capitol. I’d like to see the names the gedolim that supported this demonstration & their justification for such behavior that puts other Jews in danger from the goyim who hate us & can claim that even ultra-religious Jews hate Israel.
I like how everyone is deciding what gedolim would agree to or never agree to. As long as they agree with you,(no one in specific) you say they are on your side of the issue. when they DO say something not to your liking then its either “not really them” or they are misinformed. they are always on your side. What a scam…
“The Sefer was published almost 50 years ago (1961) and has not been refuted by anyone.”
You haven’t studied. In fact the VaYoel Moshe contradicts itself! See the section where the Satmar Rav discusses why the Rambam didn’t include the Shalosh Shvuot in the Mishneh Torah. What comes out of that analysis is that the VaYoel Moshe argues with the Rambam! Thus, the Sefer was refuted almost fifty years ago.. by the Satmar Rav himself.
1) Jews should be more focussed on the living than on the dead. I agree with #11, in these times, there are definately more important issues to raise and it is a real shame that these people decided to confuse the public and the govt about the more important matters.
2) Why is it that when these guys dance with arabs, the frum community shouts that they are not satmar, they are neturei karta. But now, they go back to being part of ‘mainstrem’ satmar…?
#14: Jews are concerned with halacha whenever it applies. That means for the dead as well.
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Ultra Chillul Hashem
It’s interesting. Yesterday was the yartzeit of Rav Yakov Yosef, zatzal. Reb Yoel Teitelbaum zatzal had spoken of his gadlus and said that anyone who davens at his tzion would certainly find his yeshua. His kever, in Union Field Cemetary (Queens) was PACKED all day with mispalelim, mostlty hasidim, mostly satmar. It leaves one to wonder why these people did not join in those ranks, when it was their own Rebbe who had advised them to do so.
#1 # 2
The Holy Satmar Rebbe zatzal took the decision to demonstrate very seriously, and it is known that he fasted on that day, and used to daven special tefilos that only a Kiddush hashem should come out of it. So maybe those Satmar Chasidim you saw yesterday couldn’t make it to Washington D.C., so they opted instead to go pray for the success of the demonstration.
To all of the posters yelling chillul hashem , please be advised that in his Holy Sefer V’yoel Moshe, the Satmar Rebbe clearly explained and proved that it is a KIDDUSH HASHEM to protest the brazen uprooting of the holy torah and against the creation of the State of Israel before Moshiach .
The Sefer was published almost 50 years ago (1961) and has not been refuted by anyone.
interesting… he only says that he’ll suceed with the help of various govermantal agencies and politicians. He doesn’t mention with the help of Hashem.
“Ultra Chillul Hashem”–modiinbob (N0. 1)
Unfortunately, there are too many people like you–well-meaning people–who are ignorant of Halacha.
These protests agains the Israeli Government’s atrocities are being encouraged by the Gedolei Torah of Eretz Yisroel–true Talmidei Chachomim. I think it is safe to say that they know the severe penalties of creating a Chilul Hashem, that they would never authorize any action that could be considered a Chilul Hashem.
When Jews protest the desecration of Jewish gravesites, they demostrate that they honor the Jewish dead and cry out at the desecration of their gavesites. All decent people, no matter what their religion or nationality, can relate to such a demonstration and respect such demonstrators.
It is the Israeli Government that is creating the Chilul HaShem, by trampling on everything that is dear and holy, not only to Orthodox Jews, but also to all decent religious people who consider Eretz Yisroel to be holy soil.
I refer not only to the desecration of Jewish gravesites, but also to the public displays of immorality (Toeva parades) that are being conducted in Tel Aviv and this Jerusalem in the summer months–SHAME!!!
deepthinker: however, the true gedolie tora in chutz laaretz and in eretz yisrael are against it. r’eliyashiv would never permit such a thing and many other true gedolie torah (needless to say all the sfardi and mizrachi gdolim are against or are they not true gedolie torah)
I haven’t seen the Delaware, Erie, or Iroquois Indians demonstrating against New York City built on top of their grave sites… I’m certain there’s a difference somewhere, other than the obvious.
yechezkel89 (NO.6)
How do you know that Rav Elaishiv wouldn’t permit it?
One of the spokemen for this demonstration is Dr. Bernard Fryschman, of Agudas Yisroel. He is, certainly, no Satmarer. He is involved in saving Jewish cemeteries in Europe.
Certainly, no Godol, regardless of his affilation, would accuse Rav Schmidl of Asra Kadisha, Rav Weiss, and the Dayanim of the Edah Hachareidis of creating a Chilul Hashem.
#3 – mogold – thank you for the explanation. You truly clarified their perspective for me. However, is it possible that these protests would be in place if they were in Eretz Yisroel? What is the point of demonstrating in America, in a place that is growing dangerously with anti-semitism and in front of a president whose concerns for our safety are clearly in question (this isn’t about medinas yisroel, I’m talking about his apparent disaffinity to klal yisroel).
Big Deal! Last week Agudah was threating public protests against Israel in the US if the Emanuel mothers were arrested. By the Gaza withdrawal the Mizrachi organized public demonstrations against Israel throughout the world. Lets be honest everyone demonstrates against Israel and in front of goyim if the issue gets their gut.
Satmar & Neturi Karta had no right to take Yidden away from learning in NYS to demonstrate against the State of Israel in Washington DC while the PM of the State of Israel visited the US President. This is the Three Weeks by what right did they have to create a chilul hashem , Israel & the Jewish poeple have enough serious pikuach nefesh problems to deal with & these misguided zealots have to castigate the “Zionist Medinah” for a private developer not treating graves that are not known to be Jewish with the respect that is due known Jewish graves. I can not picture any true gadol who would favor such demonstrations against other Jews in the US Capitol. I’d like to see the names the gedolim that supported this demonstration & their justification for such behavior that puts other Jews in danger from the goyim who hate us & can claim that even ultra-religious Jews hate Israel.
I like how everyone is deciding what gedolim would agree to or never agree to. As long as they agree with you,(no one in specific) you say they are on your side of the issue. when they DO say something not to your liking then its either “not really them” or they are misinformed. they are always on your side. What a scam…
“The Sefer was published almost 50 years ago (1961) and has not been refuted by anyone.”
You haven’t studied. In fact the VaYoel Moshe contradicts itself! See the section where the Satmar Rav discusses why the Rambam didn’t include the Shalosh Shvuot in the Mishneh Torah. What comes out of that analysis is that the VaYoel Moshe argues with the Rambam! Thus, the Sefer was refuted almost fifty years ago.. by the Satmar Rav himself.
1) Jews should be more focussed on the living than on the dead. I agree with #11, in these times, there are definately more important issues to raise and it is a real shame that these people decided to confuse the public and the govt about the more important matters.
2) Why is it that when these guys dance with arabs, the frum community shouts that they are not satmar, they are neturei karta. But now, they go back to being part of ‘mainstrem’ satmar…?
#14: Jews are concerned with halacha whenever it applies. That means for the dead as well.