Eida Chareidis Av Beis Din HaGaon HaRav Moshe Sternbuch Shlita was injured in his face by police teargas during today’s protests in Jaffa against ongoing chilul kevarim.
Protests resumed after shabbos after it became clear to the Eida and Asra Kadisha that promises to halt Israel Antiquities Authority excavations are not being upheld. Eida rabbonim are discussing what actions to take as the antiquities authority is beginning to work in a number of controversial areas.
One can only question the actions of police using teargas against elderly rabbonim, who by all accounts were not engaged in any violent or illegal activities, present in a showing of solidarity and to obtain a first-hand view of events on location.
UPDATE: Protests just announced to begin at 7:00pm at Kikar Shabbat to Shivtei Yisrael Street to decry police spraying HaGaon HaRav Moshe Sternbuch Shlita with teargas at Jaffa excavations site.
PHOTO LINK: Click HERE for photos taken by Kikar.net.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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28 Responses
When you let the genie out of the bottle, you never kow where he may end up.
Of course everyone agrees that an elderly Rav shouldn’t get hurt. Actually, nobody should get hurt. That includes decent, law abiding citizens who get upset when their streets are turned into battlegrounds by out of control thugs. I hope Rabbi Sternbuch wasn’t in the thick of things, or some people may say he brought it on himself by being in the middle of the protests. Refuah Shleima. Tear gas is nasty stuff.
everyone knows that if you go to a protest, you might get hurt. the police cant possibly judge who is acting violent and who is peaceful so they just do everything possible to scare ppl away and end it.
it is such a chutzpah to make protests on the fact that soemone got injured at a protest. these ppl need to get a life.
Speaktruth too, is 100% right! I’m sure that he agrees that protesting peacefully at a place where the Torah is being stepped on is the right thing to do. Our friend “Speaktruth” is just here to make us aware that when someone decides to do the right thing and go, it is the that “everyone knows that if you go to a protest, you might get hurt” and therefore “it is such a chutzpah to make protests on the fact that soemone got injured at a protest”. So, don’t get him wrong!!
I am not saying it is good that he got hurt. I am not saying there is anything wrong with protesting peacefully. I am talking about going to a demonstration where people are acting violently and illegally. It is well known that police arrest randomly people who are in the area even without evidence of their acting violently. As such, someone who goes to such a protest, knows that this might happen.
If the gedolim would make protests which would be peaceful and not consist of violence or damaging property but would just defend a point, I would be all for it.
What do you blame the police on? That they didnt realize he was innocent?! I am just saying not everything is their fault. It was a sad mistake.
If you ever saw a protest with hundreds of ppl doing things, you would realize how hard it is to control it and stop it.
Rav Sternbuch was hurt because he was sprayed in the face with teargas during a protest. What do you do? Organize another protest so that more people could get hurt! What else? HUH?!?
Play with fire, and you will get burned….
I agree 100% to Besbubby (#2).
We all pray that all Maranan verabonon living in the Meah She’arim Neighborhood (even not the Eida ones) who are “law abiding citizens who get upset when their streets are turned into battlegrounds by out of control thugs” and as we all heard their outscream on this behavior, perhaps even more than from Harav Sterbuch…, should not get hurt.
“Thick of things” – I sure do hope that Harav Sternbuch wasn’t involved in overturning and burnt rubbish bins etc. However, being that he’s from the Briska Cheder, I’m sure that “some people may say” that even if they differ in general of his extreme opinions it is acceptable for him to atmost protest verbaly and peacefully and voice his angst and hurt at the grave desecration site….
Mr. wheelchair,
Aderaba, do you have a suggestion on how to express our opposition to this action? I’m sure that you don’t agree that it was right to spray him, you just don’t agree of protesting on this. I’m sure you’re also very hurt on this Chilul Kvod Chachomim that happened. It is recommended that at the same time when you complain of the steps being taken to condemn this you rather suggest alternatives.
It’s all fake. It’s PR. It’s not anti-Zionism. If they were really suffering they would go to the Americans, to the UN, to Amnesty International, appealing for international intervention. They don’t care, all they want is a haredi medinah. They are not against Zionism at all. It’s a power struggle against the Agudah and Shas. Nothing more.
I didn’t have the guts to watch this entire video. Just the thought of an elderly man being sprayed with tear gas, and no less a man of Rav Shternbach’s stature is inconceivable.
How low can one sink?
Speaktruth, Let me try to explain to you my view of their opinion and maybe you and other good Jews will be open to understand from where their coming from. I’ll try to be short.
1)The ancestors of those people lived here in the Yishuv Hayoshon generations before the Zionist Israel existed. They all only knew about erliche people Lomdei torah with mesiras nefesh mamesh. Once the new people started to appear in Yerushalayim wanting to get controll of the youth and the education following by chilul Shabbos and finally desecration of the whole Torah. ALL the gedolim became uproared from this “chutzpa” and that is what triggered the start of the ongoing milchama laHashem which hasn’t yet to have concluded. Picturing yourself in that position, I think it is more understandable on why their reaction to all this is different to how we feel about it.
2)Now regarding the illegality that you mention, in addition to what I explain in #1, they claim that meetings were first held at length with different ideas of different options how to avoid desecration of the ancient possibly holy graves, and still being able to procede with the developments. Still the authorities didn’t respect the rules of what they consider their own nation. The authorities and police guarding those areas are not there to inforce the legal law, they are there to show that they will show once and for all that they will do what they want even if there are alternative options. In my opinion it is very understanding why the reaction for this would be followed by protests even not legal ones as long as they don’t damage property. I understand why they react in a way trying to hold back the tractors as much as possible. In their eyes it is not a matter of legality it is a matter of one wanting to overpower the other.
I’m clearly not relating to the damage and violence being done in the streets of Me’ah She’arim, which I already attached a link to Harav Moshe Sternbuch’s opinion on that.
To #12. You are completely ignoring the point of this activity. This activity is designed for one purpose, and one purpose alone: to “correct” problems in the Medinah. This has absolutely nothing to do with being anti-Zionist. Some haredim want to “correct” the Medinah in the Knesset, others want to do it on the streets.
In any case, this is plain HEFKERUS.
See yourselves which of the gedolim are against violence and damage. This article appeared in another website. I hope the editors will allow this in here.
ראב”ד העדה החרדית הגר”מ שטרנבוך עונה בראיון נוקב לאתר האינטרנט “וין ניו-יורק” על שורה של שאלות בעקבות ההפגנות הסוערות בירושלים. הוא אומר כי זורקי האבנים הם אנשים שגם ללא זאת הם פסולי עדות
חיים רוט06/09/09 | 13:54
העדה החרדית מתנערת מהמפגינים האלימים ומזורקי האבנים בפה מלא. “מי שזורק אבנים ומשתמש באלימות בהפגנות, הוא פסול לעדות בחופה וקידושין ובכל עדות בישראל”, כך אומר ראב”ד העדה החרדית הרב משה שטרנבוך, בראיון לאתר האינטרנט מפורסם
את הראיון ערך העיתונאי יאיר הופמן מפלעטבוש, השוהה בימים אלו בארץ. במהלכו עונה הרב שטרנבוך על שורה של שאלות הקשורות כולן במערכות שנוהלו על ידי העדה החרדית בחודשים האחרונים בפרשת חניון קרתא.
הרב שטרנבוך מבקש מיהדות ארה”ב ורבני ישראל “לעמוד במערכה לימין הביד”צ בירושלים, נגד ראש העיר שהחליט לפרוץ בפרהסיא את השבת בירושלים”, הוא אומר כי “אין כל מקום לפשרה על חשבון השבת”.
הראב”ד מסתייג באופן ברור מכל אלימות שהיא, ואומר כי מי שמשתמש באלימות הוא מחלל שם שמים. מעבר לקביעה כי הם פסולים לעדות, קובע הרב שטרנבוך כי “על פי רוב אנשים כאלו הם אינם בכלל יראי שמים, ויש הרבה סיבות בשלהם הם פסולים לעדות”.
לשאלת המראיין אם הוא מכיר את מי שמופיע בתקשורת בשם “הקמב”ץ של העדה החרדית”, ר’ יואליש קרויס, מסתייג הרב שטרנבוך ואומר כי אינו מכירו והוא אינו נושא בשום תפקיד רשמי מטעם העדה החרדית.
I think we need to start a new protest, it will be a protest against yiddin calling other yiddin “Nazim”! That is one of the biggest chilulei Hashem there is here! The police are there to keep things in order and also to follow their orders. They are not Nazis by far! Protesting this holy cause is a great thing. And wouldn’t it be an even greater thing if instead of screaming and yelling at the police, the protest consisted of public Torah shiurim and public Torah learning!?
#15 Why learn Torah if it doesn’t hurt you when the same Torah is being stepped on!!? When someone gets hurt, he screams! no? WE ARE HURT! OUR BELOVED TORAH IS BEING HURT!! How can we not scream!?
Police are absolutely NOT there to keep things in order, they are rather there to make sure they overpower the Torah Hakdoshe which is struggling so much that her people keep her.
Please see my explanation in # 12, I hope you will pbe open enough to accept their position in this.
I was there today, how about the hardship created by these vandals to all people using buses in Geula and other areas, be shoppers, pregnant ladies, babies and elders….How about putting pashkalachs calling for Diseases and Cancer for jews that disagree with them? About poverty, cursing, is this okay? And the pashkalachs were put by the Badatz and signed…..
Thus thugs are a minority, they cause chilul Hashem, they burned rubbish, but the smell prevented people from learning all around…..No excuse, Rabbi Shternbuch was not born in Israel and not Rabbi Weiss.
# 12 very good but The Z made it a state and Moslems wont come in like in ’29 and slaughter you. OK? NOW you original miyashvim want to force chilonim to be frum??The way to do it is not the Aida Charaedus way, that way is the CH.H. way——- WE all see that. There is only one way——- the Torah way. Whats that—- Why dont u ask the biggest R.H. in the world IN E.Y Rav Finkle hummmmmmm.Or the other non chasidishe.Not the hot heads, who are only LSHAIM SHUMAYIM.Ask any Godol Batorah, youl have a totally different approach . This will be a kovod and Tiferras even for the Mishtara. But most of you dont even know what I am talking about- u dont hear it.THIS is the bezoyon. RACHMONA LITZLAN I hope the “freih” will not take revenge on such ” innocent people”. THe “frume” are bringing it on themselves we all see it. But they dont,, b/c their ” LSHAIM SHAMAYIM. such primitive havana . Its pathetic that frie look at me and think I am one of them. H yishmarainu!!!!!!!!
#1
in other words kivan shnitan reshus lmaschis lhashchis ain mavdil bein tzadik lrasha
how come not one Ltveshe Rosh Yeshivah is involved, OR cares——– HUMM ?????? IN ANY OF THESE HAFGANOT HOW COME ???
It is obvious that protesting doesn’t help. It only makes the Zionists (Netanyhahu and police) angry and truthfully I don’t blame them when the’re called Nazis and rotzchim. What’s the point of ongoing demonstrations if it just causes more stubborness NOT to give up the digging?
I think the way it’s done in Europe, through political channels is much better.
How about those who care about the digging up of ancient graves (I do) should not come in a way of confrontation, rather they should come up with ways that could EFFECTIVELY help their cause.
NEVER and I mean never would they do this to a catholic priest, or an iman; there would be a violent sruggle and the whole world would want an un investigation. The israeli police not all but a lot are nothing but a bunch of violent thugs and especially when it comes to the charedi. We have the right to protest. We don’t have the right to destruction. If you notice most of the destruction is done by teenagers which must stop.
I tried watching the video, but listening to the constant cry of “Nazis” by the protesters throughout the entire video sickened me beyond belief. Who are these Jewish police and soldiers? Are they not children and grandchildren of Jews who survivied Aushwitz, Buchenwald, the death camps and ghettos? What right does any Chareidi have to call another Jew “Nazi” and provoke these people?. How would you expect a child of survivor to react?
Rav Sternbuch had absolutely NO right to be in a demonstration that was provoking policemen and the demonstration is therefore NOT peaceful. He and all the Nazi-calling animals, should be locked up for their crimes against the Jewish people.
#18 And how many yidden were blown up in pizza places or on school busses and died fighting in wars SINCE the Secular Zionists took over?
FAR more then died in Hebron in 1929 that is for sure, and along with that go theaters open on Shobbos and all kinds of other government supported anti Torah activities.
Israel must remain a strong state because without it there would G-d forbid at THIS point BECAUSE it has been there and the Arabs want revenge, if it were dismantled there would G-d forbid be another holocaust.
But that does not change the fact, that there was a reason why Torah forbade it being created in the first place.
The Seculra Zionists did not do anyone any favors, by going against Torah in 1948 or in all all their activities over many decades, leading up to that point.
Sorry folks but I didnt see on the video where the Rov was hit by teargas.
Yep, the “nazis” cry is a travesty, even if the police there were not Jewish.
Yep, the “Chitutei Shichve” is devastating, even if the police there were not Jewish.
BH
#14 & #19 = please translate into English from now on. There are many people that come onto this site for various reasons, & venture that many do not understand Ivrit. You can state your claim in Ivrit, but please translate so that everyone can understand and be a part of the blog. Thank You!
I have a concern. Which is better – standing up for Jewish Law or allowing others to desecrate Holy graves? Certainly I think all of us will agree that allowing people, Jewish or nonJ, to desecrate Holy Jewish graves is a very “grave” matter and truly a chillul HaShem.It MUST be stopped. Unfortunately we also know that this is not the first time these things have happened. However, I am not so sure that “violent” protest is the correct way to battle the police and others. I think their point & message would be better received if they held protests in the same locations, about the same concerns, with the same people, but without the violence rhetoric and actions. Invite great orators, invite everyone that can stand speak for your cause – but let it be peaceful protest. Violent protest hurts everyone. Even in chutz la’Aretz – how many times have we been at work, shopping, or just speaking with friends and colleagues, and they mention to us, what is all this fighting going on between the religious in Israel? Everyone sees it and questions why this is happening and how can “religious” Jews fight each other? So there actions hurt not only the Jews in Israel, but all of us. Peaceful protest can often be as effective, if not more so, than violent protest and B”H a lot more people get go back to their famiy w/o being hurt or carted off to jail, rachaman l’etzlan, Gd Forbid.