Part one of the attached clip is a group of “Bochrim” from the “Peleg Yerushalmi” which is under the leadership of Hagaon HaRav Shmuel Auerbach Shlita, as they violently attack an Egged bus in Jerusalem on Tuesday night causing damage to the bus. The second part of the clip is where protesters from the Peleg Yerushalmi throw rocks at a police car which had to be escorted out of the area under heavy guard.
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43 Responses
If the Palestinians don’t get their way through violence why do these chevra think they will succeed through violence?
I disagree with the Peleg movemement. I am embarrased by their actions.
That being said, I cant believe that YWN woud compare them to murderous suicidal maniac arabs who are “omdim aleinu lechaloseinu.”
Why aren’t they arrested? If they want to fight, draft them
Do we need for the bus driver to run over and crush one of these crazies before the Gadol running the Peleg realizes the danger of these violent demonstrations. If c’v he wants a martyr for the cause of resisting the draft he is likely to get one if these demonstrations continue to escalate.
Interesting that the violence accompanying the evacuation of Amona a few months ago didn’t get a fraction of the coverage that Peleg is getting. Coincidence or deliberate? I think I know the answer.
Moderators Note: With all due respect, the Amona violence was covered extensively on YWN. It only lasted 3 days and was on an isolated hilltop, as opposed to Peleg Yerushalmi which is shutting down the roads and causing chaos inconveniencing hundreds of thousands daily – for weeks and weeks.
We even posted op-eds comparing the two. Here is one
Every time I read about this group I think about the peaceful and gentle impressions I have about R’ Shlomo Zalman zt”l and lhavdil the mishigaas, and frankly violence, that describes people who surround his son shyichye. I find it crazy.
Are you kidding or are you just git meshige? The Pali’s would be nothing if not for their violence. All the billions in aid money they got and continue to get are only because of all their violence. There are plenty of oppressed ethnic groups in Africa and Asia that don’t receive a small fraction off what the Pali’s get. In fact the Zionists set up Israel with violence as well!
american_yerushalmi [5],
It’s a much bigger Chidush to see so called “yeshiva Bochurim” act this way.
If Rashei Yeshiva would condemn and ostracize violence, which is is direct violation of the Shulchan Aruch (aside from other things), as they do someone with a smartphone – we would be in better shape…
to number 2, i had an experience in israel a few years back with the similar type of “yeshiva Bochur”. he was seconds away from being put out of his misery, but my friends stepped in and saved his behind. these kind of people need to be put down. they should be blacklisted. all they do is make a real frum jews life more difficult. i agree with the yeshiva world, these kids are garbage.
This is so overwhelmingly disturbing. I had so much more of a better image of the Yeshivishe Bochur, and this is truly bringing down that image.
I have alot of respect for our Gedoleih Torah, I just can’t come to grips with what they’re trying to do here. I can’t believe that taking the innocent Bochur from the Bais Medrash to have him behave this way in the streets is our derech of chinuch. Like said so often before, I just can’t see R’ Sholomo Zalmen and R’ Sholom, R’ Nosson Tzvi… sitting by while this was going on with our most precious and sacred jewels running amok in the streets like this.
This is NOT the Derech of the most Heilige Litvishe Gedoleih Torah.
Disgusting and reprehensible
I had my husband call the Gabbai of our Adopt-a-Kollel fund to determine if they are aligned with this Peleg group…..BH they are not!
Do not come raising $$$ by our door if this is your hashkafa of Toras Hashem.
Few thing frustrate me more than YWN moderators trying to defend themselves against users’ comments.
One sign of a mature, unbiased news outlet is its ability to keep its mouth shut when people criticize it. Such silence gives off an impression of confidence, kind of like “Say what you want; we don’t need your approval.”
Sadly, YWN doesn’t yet have such maturity or confidence. Let’s hope that one day it will.
This is shame! A disgrace! How could chareidim do this?
Reply to No. 10
You say that having “our most precious and sacred jewels running amok in the streets…is NOT the Derech of the most Heilige Litvishe Gedoleih Torah”. Two problems: First, these hooligans and fanatics are not “our precious and sacred jewels” and second and perhaps a bit less clear is that either a certain Rav is clueless about the anarchy being conducted in his name, perhaps because of his age, declining cognition or cutting himself off from the media entirely or perhaps he simply has a different and very troubling shita from those of ALL the “Heilige Litvishe Gedoleih Torah”. In other words, a true gadol hatorah would not encourage this craziness and disruption to the entire tzibur
Let’s try understanding this saga. First let’s try imagining that they consider kol ba’isha against their religion. Let’s add to the picture the fact that the upper military and govt echelons are anti haredi. Let’s even accept the fact that their agenda is to abolish the dating leumi/haredi hashkaffa. There is a reason rabbi rafi Perez (previous idf chief rabbi) resigned. He complained that all the assurances he gave to the dati/haredi that they would not have to compromise their religion (they way they see their religion), and the upper brass overrode him. Now the dati leumi and haredi are under the total control of the hiloni command.
When I do the math it equals to forcing one to forgo his religion. Protest is perhaps the only option as nothing else will work.
As a side note, there an abundant amount of proof I didn’t include.
Why compare to Ramalah
עניי עירך קודמים
Compare it to Obamahusseinislama Hillary supporters “Protesters ”
Actually all have the same gol obstruct others Because if anyone really wants to protest you speak scream
But obey the laws don’t make destroction dont brake others properties or ther peace
if 20,000 Jews demonstrated about something extremely serious and the rabbis announced publicly on the loudspeakers many many many times that no one should do anything out of line and despite that the media who was looking and looking for the slightest bit of violence and all they were able to catch were 4 kids who disobeyed and were being violent and then they made the whole coverage about the violence and all the commentators on the websites raged about how violent the Jews at the demonstration were – would you call that media antisemitic? Would you call the commentators dumb biased fools?
btw just a reminder the Rambam writes that an apikores burns in hell forever לדורי דורות and Rabeinu Yona writes that an apikores is not just one who disgraces a talmid chachom but even one who just does not accord him the greatest respect so all those who left comments who are sensitive to heat remember only the talmid chochom himself can forgive so you better make your way quick to R Shmuel’s house and while your there explain to him how to be manhig klal yisroel because after all you obviously know better than the only gadol in the last 50 years that rav shach reffered to in a letter as שר התורה and הגאון האמיתי and who’s father r shlomo zalman said many many years ago (to Rav Leizerson present head of chinuch atzmai) “maybe there are more but i only know 2 talmidei chachomim that know all bavli and yerushalmi to its depths till their halachik outcomes and they are my son r shmuel and rav elyashiv.”
A movement has started!!!
To stop all funding coming from chutz laretz to these so called Jews, talking about peleg yrushalmi.
Sharei Chesed neighborhood and all the so called yeshivos who are associated with this behavior.owning a smart phone was the big issue, but damaging property and steeling time from people that’s OK, not to mention calling names like natzi etc, the unbelievable amount of chilul hashem being caused, simply no words!
One of the ways to end this, is to put a stop to the funding, maybe it will be some type of wake up call.
Can anyone please tell me what is the typical punishment under US law for damaging a bus and throwing rocks at a police car?
Respectful reply to the moderator. So, if the Peleg demos would have ended after a few days and not blocked traffic in the center of the country, it would have been OK? All the vicious name calling — admittedly not in the main YWN reporting but mostly in some of the comments (for which YWN has to take responsibility for publishing) — is solely because the protesters are blocking traffic? One gets the feeling this is not quite the case. But, rather that the ideological matter surrounding the dismantling of a settlement is somehow more legitimate than some mere Chareidi demand … That is certainly the tone of many commenters who express considerable contempt and revulsion at the chutzpa of Chareidi talmidei yeshiva to protest anything at all against the “holy” state — and certainly against the matter of the IDF draft, an issue that is older than many of the commenters themselves.
BTW, just for the record, aside from that one op-ed you referenced, can you point to any others? This is my point. It’s the unspoken tone of the reporting. That one group’s protests are more legit than the other’s. And it is with much sadness that I note that YWN scorns nearly any public display of Chareidi dissent/outrage at anything the medina does. This not-so-subtle undercurrent of practically any article reporting any public Chareidi protest is that it is less justified than anything any Dati-Leumi group protests. Sometimes, as with Amona, this is accomplished using a clever literary contrivance. By declaring a particular dispute as a face off not against the holy medina, but against the unholy supreme court. So, that’s OK to protest, even if things get out of hand. But, the medina in general — is holy of holies. So, how dare those #*&%&! Chareidim dare complain against “the beginning of the flowering of our redemption?”
With sincerest hopes for the speedy coming of Moshiach Tzidkeinu be’meheira be’yameinu.
well, now we all know that mr moderator is biased against the ‘peleg’ (although throughout, you could see the bias).
ps. Reb Shmuel Auerbach gave the order that as soon as the atzeres was over – e/1 went home.
i live in the area, and the only people who remained are the ‘shababnikim’ who do NOT belong to the peleg!
SO THERE!!!
Just a concluding remark to my previous post. I am not necessarily favoring what Peleg is doing lately. I think that things have gotten out of hand. I do wish there was tighter rabbinical control over what the protesters are doing. I am not necessarily in favor of blocking traffic, etc.
I just wish that even when we have an internal dispute among ourselves, we would learn some calmer, more balanced way to express it. While we shouldn’t sweep our shortcomings under the rug, we ought to be more careful about displaying dirty laundry in public as well. Let’s restrain the public self-flagellation. And commenters who don’t subscribe to the Chareidi hashkafa, please, there are so many other websites where you can post your views. Leave this site free of your anti-Chareidi diatribes.
i dont believe that there are so many Peleg followers.
I’ll bet that half of them are just bored boys w/ empty lives looking for a sick outlet.
Why doesnt someone provide healthy alternative outlets? I think it would be better that they have smartphones to play with instead of making them into animals…
Where are their parents??
I fail to see how your coverage differs from that of the secular media in focusing on the actions of a few fringe elements and ignoring the tens of thousands of Rabbonim and Bnei Torah who acted totally peacefully and responsibly. Also to ignore the important message the distinguished speakers were trying to convey, that the government is trying to weaken if not destroy the Torah world by getting as many Bnei Torah as possible into the army where they can use the very powerful weapon of military discipline to uproot as much of their yiras Shamaim as possible as transform them into mainstream Israelis (the government officials have made it clear in Knesset hearings and media interviews that this is their real intention) before what they call the “malignant demographic” makes the frum into a majority of the Jews in the country. They also quoted people like Rav Shach, ztl, who said that going into the army is yeheirag v’al yaavor. If the frum don’t start taking these messages seriously and instead get diverted by the actions of deviant fringe elements (some if not most of whom are probably agents provateurs planted by the police or Shabak) a lot of people may wind up being very sorely dismayed by how their children and grandchildren are going to turn out.
There are no hashkofa issues here. These are simply a bunch of kids out to have fun. No one has told them that the way to avert gezeiras is to sit and learn an extra hour or tow. To them and their mentor the best way to avert the gezeiras shmad – as they describe it not me – is to show the world that the way to advance Yiddishkeit is the way we believe in – b’koichas yodi. Hey wait a minute, isn’t that what they spit on the IDF for?
Just a minute let’s get this straight. Having a smartphone is ossur because the rabbonim, or at least some of them say so. Stealing is an issur d’oraisa. If you block the highway and take away an hour of my time, that is stealing and you can never get mechila because you don’t know why I am. However this is fine as it is all in a good cause. Do I understand things as the peleg bochurim do?
Another point: Concerning the wisdom of staging demonstrations, I leave that to biger minds than mine. I will share with readers excerpts from a sheet that was passed out last night, a reprint from a letter to Yated dated 13 Menachem Av 5745 (soon after it was founded by Rav Shach) in response to a letter that had been published the week before criticizing demonstrations in those days against chillul Shabbos saying that not one person had started keeping Shabbos as a result of those demonstrations: “Only public demonstrations have brought about everything that exists today in Eretz Yisroel in the matter of shemiras Shabbos. Would whole sections of Yerushalaim Ir HaKodesh look the way they do today? How would we be able to bring up our children and where would we have to send our brothers whom we’re trying to be mekarev? … Only thanks to ongoing uncompromising struggles guided by Gedolei Yisroel. … In this war we have to be guided by the Torah’s teaching: The weak and fainthearted ones should go back to their homes and not cause the hearts of their brothers to melt.” This letter is signed by a young Rosh Kollel and askan from Ofakim by the name of Moshe Gafni
People should read for themselves what the Peleg’s newspaper has to say about the facts of the army’s campaign against the Yeshivas. The Friday edition is available by free email subscription. There’s a certain amount of factionalism but it’s possible — and important — to overlook it and focus on the very disturbing trends and developments.
Regarding 12, 17, 20, 21, 24
In my case, family and friends and neighbours in large numbers have moved to Israel. Plenty of visitors of various hashkafas come here. In all these decades I have yet to hear from any of them one single case where someone who followed the rules by registering in time with proper documentation was drafted. (It is also true that of those who volunteered there were certain complaints about the way things happen in the military, but that is not the topic here. The topic is drafting.)
So here is an example of why YWN needs to tell the Yeshiva world what is happening. If the lies about the draft are not refuted, then the lies and the “demonstrations” spread. They become more violent. And they are reported in the secular news, possibly spreading even to the U.S. secular news (and one cannot blame YWN for what the secular news reports, whether or not YWN reports it). And that affects the voter world, which may lead, as example, to a Lapid government in Israel (and even before such a tragedy may theoretically affect U.S. relations with Israel because of voter perception in the U.S.).
I have seen posted some vague claims that there were those who were drafted. From my contacts I have no evidence that anyone who really followed the rules was drafted. So this “fire” of lies has to be addressed decisively before it spreads and leads to more tragedy.
To #19
Wikipedia under “criminal rock throwing” states:
> In Great Britain, expansive legislation on public disorder introduced in 1986 allows stone throwers to be sentenced on average to 3.5 years in prison if the criminal justice system can prove that the action took place in a riot
> In New Zealand, individuals who throw rocks at cars can serve 14 years for endangering transport
> In the U.S., charges vary by state. For example, in New Hampshire , Oregon individuals who throw rocks during demonstrations can be charged with riot, also called “criminal mischief,,” a felony [maximum 5 years in jail and $125,000 fine)
#17
It really needs to be stated that the terms “apikores” and “talmid chachom” are extremely fluid terms which change their meaning depending on circumstance. The concept that not honouring a “talmid chachom” is an act of an “apikores” refers to a very specific definition of “talmid chachom” which, in many if not most opinions, does not even exist today. In the Artscroll story on R. Shmuel Salant (Rav of Jerusalem for some 70 years, niftar 1909) states he himself has met only one person in his entire life who he would consider as qualifying for such a definition.
i hate to brake it to all who comment here without great respect for a talmid chachom and all the more so gedolei hador but it will be very hot forever in hell because the halacha is not decided by a story in an artscroll book i quote the words of the chofetz chaim in sefer chofetz chaim 8:4:
“the severe punishment of one who is mevazeh [[[as i quoted earlier from rabbeinu yona (sharei teshuva 3:155) this includes even just not conferring the proper respect- therealstory]]] talmidei chachomim is known as it is written in sanhedrin 99b and it is codified (in Shulchan Aruch Yoreh De’ah 243:6) that he is considered like one who has despised the word of Hashem and his soul will be eternally excommunicated. However the yetzer hara incites man to think that the law of being mevazeh a talmid chochom is not applicable today, only in the days of the gemarah since there lived extraordinary talmidei chachomim in those days, but it does not refer to talmidei chachomim in our days. However, this is incorrect as one is considered a talmid chochom in relation to the generation he is living in.”
I could just imagine, unfortunately, many many people saying in a few thousand years from now, after spending a few thousand years burning in a fire 60 times hotter then the hottest fire on earth, “was it really worth this just to post a stupid comment online, oh why didn’t i listen to therealstory and just spend a thousand dollars to go to yerushalayim to ask mechillah its expensive but nothing compared to this, forever!”
Georgeg, ty for every truthful word!!!
Doesn’t Rav Auerbach have any charota for what his Talmidim do? He is totally silent, except to encourage them. I find it astounding that someone of his stature condones these thugs. I wish someone could explain his thinking & lack of response to this violence.
And then they wonder why they are despised.
He said many times that he condemns all violence so it’s obviously not his talmidim and just some, and very few i might add, who have jumped on the opportunity to act stupidly. Unfortunately, clueless people who’s information is solely based on openly biased reporting, as i have proven in other comments, fall for it. Fortunately most normal people with a bit of savvy know whats really going on despite the biased reporting!
He said many times that he condemns all violence so it’s obviously not his talmidim and just some, and very few i might add, who have jumped on the opportunity to act stupidly. Unfortunately, clueless people who’s information is solely based on openly biased reporting, fall for it. Fortunately most normal people with a bit of savvy know whats really going on despite the biased reporting!
I have never before commented here, but just can’t control myself. I learned by Rav Shmuel in Yeshiva. I used to visit him every time I was in Eretz Yisroel. I can’t bring myself to visit him anymore.
Just take the Peleg on here today going crazy defending them,selves and saying that Rav Shmuel made a clear announcement last night that everyone should leave peacefully and only a few bad apples cause violence.
Really? So that means that Rav Shmuel and the Peleg ENDORSE the nightmare standstill traffic around the country for the past three months?!?!
We thought so.
I am finished with these thugs. Rav Shmuel has no idea who is around him and telling him such a pack of lies. It is just sickening.
How many people lost money because of this traffic? late to work? Late home from work? late to doctors? Missing appointments? Missing flights (I know of a few personally).
And watch them respond that he doesn’t condone blocking traffic, but he does. Just read his own newspaper called Hapeles. I believe YWN even published the clip from it last week telling all their followers not to use Highway 1 that night but instead to use the 443 because it will be closed due to Hafganos.
They are literally a bunch of thugs. It was sad at the beginning, but now it’s become a sick reality that needs to be stopped.
Stop finding them. Stop funding BMG – since Rav malkiel Kotler is raising these animals millions of dollars. Stop funding the Tzedakos of Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel of South Fallsburg who is fundraising for the thuggery every day. Stop funding Chaim Berlin and Rav Aaron Schechter who is a huge supporter of this madness, and of course stop giving all the chayos from the Eidah and Satmar (R Zalman leib – and his French Jewry campaign) a PENNY.
That should take care of the problem in a short time.
The gezel dirabim of peoples time is horrific and I am saddened that no one at the peleg can provide a maar makom in Halacha for the Heter to do this.
Take care.
again i’ll say it real slowly:
1) Every faction does this under extreme situations.
2)streets are shut for every levayah and hachnasas sefer Torah every day for the last fifty years! Sorry no one (besides amey ha’aretz on the internet) holds it is gezel.
2) All the gedolim shut down the entire yerushalayim when they made the mass demonstration two years ago.
3) it all depends what is near and dear to you.
4) if they govermant would physically kill or even hurt on a steady basis frum yidden everyone would protest like the bnei Torah. What can we do, frum people have this weird belief that the words of the gemarah “it is worse to cause one to sin then to murder him” are true!
Dear therealstory, how do you expect simple logic to change the nature of שנאת עמי הארץ לתלמידי חכמים? Even with this hatred in him, the jew is so great that even an am hoaretz wont flaunt his hatred to talmidei chachamim because his conscience doesn’t feel right about it but every once in a while the opportunity comes when a few kids act inappropriately and then we can hate them לשם שמים but of course its ONLY THEM and the hatred IS ONLY because of the chillul hashem they cause. But the truth comes out a sentence later when they can’t stop themselves from spilling the beans and showing their true colors and from the few kids in Yerushalayim it turns into “Stop funding BMG – since Rav malkiel Kotler… Stop funding the Tzedakos of Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel… Stop funding Chaim Berlin and Rav Aaron Schechter…” There is nothing like the timeless wisdom of chazal who state גדולה שנאת עמי הארץ לתלמידי חכמים…
Real story
I will say it very slowly
1. Not every faction does damage to an Egged bus, breaks windows of cars and fights with police. When we, the Charedim had a demo against the supreme court system, none of that occured.
2. When there is a levayah or hachnasas sefer Torah there are legal permits, people are aware of the time constrains and what blocks will be off limit.
3. The huge demo was in Gan Sacher, a huge property in the middle of Yerushalayim that did not close down all traffic and intersections.
4. There are many issues near and dear to us as a klal and individually except none include property and personal destruction and causing a huge chillul hashem.
5. Perhaps go to the enlistment office, where bnei yeshiva, charedim and religious go daily, apply, sign some papers and request an exemption for full-time learning. The system has been in place since the early years of the state and still works efficiently. Break the law then conviction is around the corner.
It is time for all Frum/religious Jews – Charedim, Sefardim and Dati Leumi to protest the IDF new character of mingling of genders, loose shabbat observance, lack of Torah classes, and kashrut that can be better. Do it as a team — the results will be faster.
Just pure facts on each of your points:
1)that is true, in fact even the bnei Torah faction has repeatedly condemned such action which damage there cause as well. if you are saying that they do do such acts based on the fact that the anti religious media, after searching among countless demonstrations by countless individuals has found a few people who did act in such a fashion then please explain to me what is wrong with groups that say the Jews are all thieves! You want proof? Bernei Madoff!!!
2)sorry no one gets a permit in israel for levayas (especialy in yerushalayim were the mes must be buried within hours)
3)The demonstration two years ago by the entire chareidy community was not in gan sacher! it simply wasn’t! look it up it was at the entrance of yerushalayim extending extremely far shutting down many many main streets.
4)Please explain: Are there issues that involve the government causing us physical or spiritual harm to the extant that the draft law is in the view of so many gedolim? if there was such death or destruction being caused physically would you say we cant block roads in protest and just let the death continue or do you disagree (i wouldnt be surprised at all btw) with the gemara that it is worse to cause one to sin then to murder him?
5)Baruch Hashem i am an American who is exempted from army service therefore i dont have to follow either the gedolei hador who say not to go to the enlistment office or the gedolei hador (incl. a gadol of recent fame who has advised to follow these gedolim as well, our very own bklnmom) who say to go to the enlistment office.
The actions of the fathers are signs for their children. In 5745 there were big battles in Yerushalaim over indecent advertising on Egged buses and bus stops and frum people were getting arrested for tearing down and defacing them (even though they violated laws on the books, the police stood up for Egged’s right to violate the law rather than give in to Chareidim). It only stopped after the Minchas Yitzchak (then Ga’avad) and R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach announced that unless the ads stopped the two of them would go out themselves and start pulling them down and let the police arrest them and then deal with the inevitable reactions of their followers. Now these two Gedolim certainly knew that the result could be enormous violence and property destruction and yet they felt it was worth taking the risk of that happening in order to stop the indecency. In the present situation – where the stakes for the future of Torah Judaism in Eretz Yisroel are far greater – one can understand how R’ Shlomo Zalman’s son (who certainly remembers that episode and most likely discussed it with his father at the time) might draw the conclusions he has drawn.
I can’t believe the criticism of R’ Shmuel Auerbach that’s said or implied in these comments
FYI, R’ Ahron Feldman, R’ Elya Ber Wachtfogel, and R’ Ahron Schechter all signed a statement aligning themselves with R’ Shmuel’s ideology.