A western Quebec hotel is allowing only Jewish guests at its gym and pool during three days of Pesach, a move that has upset regular members. The four-star Château Cartier hotel has been completely booked by hundreds of Jews from as far away as Mexico and Belgium.Hotel manager Hubert de Gonneville said it is the first time all the rooms have been reserved by a single party for that long, and so good business practice demands that the hotel accommodate its guests’ special requests.
In this case, the group has asked that the gym and pool be closed to regular members so the group can ensure that men and women stay separated.
Regular gym members will be without the facility for three days, but are being offered a one-week membership extension to make up for it.
At the hotel gym on Friday, many members said they did not support the hotel’s decision.
The hotel has no plans to change its decision, whether regular members like it or not.
CBC
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26 Responses
what’s the opposite of anti-semitic?!?
To receive one week extended membership to make up for 3 days sounds more than fair.
This is only one of the causes of resentment.Why must we flaunt our wealth and clout every Pesach spending a minimum 10 G-25 G at these places.The goyim around there must hate it.Who knows what they say behind your back?I myself was once at a Torah Umesorah convention listening to the Dining room manager after concluding his Friday afternoon meeting with his waiters say ” One thing I forgot! Whatever you do,DONT MENTION MONEY TO ANY OF THEM! The goyim probably cant stand all these jews on their turf.My story was at a Chinuch function but why must we stick it in their faces during Pesach? I dont blame the goyim for being ticked.Whatever happened to ” A stay at home Pesach Family”? Those that can afford a Peasch at a hotel can probably afford all those extras at home as well.
‘I dont blame the Goyim for being tickled’
Do me a favour, either keep your Jewish pride in tact, or mouth off against our religion at the next Neo Nazi convention!
The fact that Jews are Matzliach in their endevours was always the reason for antisemitism. Dont fall prey to their resentment and jealousy. Lets just continue serving Hashem the way we were commanded to do. In a hotel or at home!
“The fact that Jews are Matzliach in their endevours was always the reason for antisemitism.”
Actually, not. Esav Sonei Es Yaakov is not subject to financial criteria.
I don’t judge those who go to hotels for Pesach, but Detroiter is articulating a Torah view, as espoused by many Torah greats, in countless Shiurim.
As a lamb among seventy wolves, we should not flaunt our wealth or success. Tznius is important in this aspect of our lives as well. So even those who attend Pesach retreats have an opportunity to be less ostentatious with their money- we can play down materialistic achievement in many ways.
Nameless, I was stunned to see you draw a parallel between Detroiter’s admonition to be careful regarding flaunting gashmiyus in front of Nochrim and neo-nazism. We certainly DO have Jewish pride, and will therefore strive to BEHAVE in a yiddishe, tznius, and dignified way, at home, and certainly in the public sphere such as in hotel venues.
Let’s keep our values straight, and strive to make a Kiddush HaSh-m in every setting.
I’m not sure what this has to do with staying home or not, but why could they not hav just made separate times of swimming and excercising. That way, they’ll probably be less goyim anyway and they can’t fume about the hotel favoring anybody-and even if they do join in, that’s fine!
Nameless, detroiter is right. What caused the Germans to get really mad at the jews? They were in the highest positions in government, prominent doctors, loads of money etc, and it was all flaunted in their faces. Thats what is happening in this country now. we have to make a loud noise if we don’t have it our way. We are different from them in many ways and I am sure it is not hashems will that we celebrate pesach in a way that irritates the gentiles.
On a side note, we have stooped to new lows when we find it neccessary to spend thousands of dollars and go to these exotic places and hotels to spend pesach. Having the ultimate in gashmious is certainly contrary to what chazal have taught us.. Just listen to Rav Matisyahu and Rav shlomo Brevda Shlita what they have to say with regards to this. I am sure I will now receive some counter comments that who am I to say this, guess what? I have a right to say what I want and obviously if you get upset , the truth hurts.
Sarah
Do you want a list of gdolim who participate in Pesach hotel vacations for different reasons listed? Does it matter?
Why can’t those who stay home be satisfied, and those who go away for the chag (is going to your parents/in-laws in fancy neighborhoods, with an inground pool, and home help different from a hotel) fulfill their Pesach chiuv? Let it go already.
Many years ago I learned a lesson about wealth that I will never forget. I happened to have had the experience of attending a very old, famous college — this is not an endorsement of college; it was a long, long time ago — that educated the children of many old-money WASP families along with a fair number of the nouveaux-riches.
Almost without exception, the students from old-money families were extremely circumspect. They wore high-quality clothes, but not so many or so ostentatious to cause notice. Family vacations might mean three weeks in Europe or in the Bahamas, but no details were ever forthcoming — “My family gets away for a while in the summer” would be the only report, making it sound like a camping trip. “My dad works in the city in financial services,” was how one friend described her father’s “job” where, with a staff of about thirty, he managed the family’s billion-dollar plus holdings.
The nouveaux riches, on the other hand, spared no expense. I actually remember girls wearing fur coats and Louis Vuitton handbags to classes. The old-money WASPS seemed a little bemused by the nouveaux folks — as if they thought it was some kind of joke or costume party.
A ger once told me that he was saddest when he saw Jews doing things that even goyim had realized were stupid. It is bad enough that we have fallen so far that not only the words of chazal but advice from our own gedolim fall on deaf ears. If we are so determined to be like goyim, let us at least emulate the manners and habits of the *highest* class of goyim rather than the loudest.
Sarah
Yes ‘eisov soneh lyaakov’. However if you’ll ask a Goy why he hates a Jew, he will say, as the Italian facist leader , Il Duce once said,’they are a nation hungry for power and money’. Whether you like it o not, the typical antisemite is disturbed by the fact that a tiny torchered people make such an impact in this world.
Detroiter was bothered by the fact that goyim are tickled by the way we flaunt our gashmiyos. I am not tickled by the way the rich goyim display their jet set type of life, nor am I intimidated by the way some Jews do. If Hashem blessed someone with parnosoh, and they do mitzvohs, they have the right to enjoy their wealth. We are the Am Hanivchor for heaven’s sakes.
I think you should take the advice of ‘sayitlike itsis’…LET IT GO
Mikedrezz.
‘waht caused the Germans
to get mad at the Jews?…..they were in the highest positions’
They were in those positions because they earned it!!!!
your even handedness to these Nazi Rishoim is absolutly pathetic!
You would have made a terrific lawyer for the typical Jew hating Nazi. But your comments are not impressive on this discussion board!
(The truth hurts’
what hurts most of all are the attention seeking kvetchers who submit their comments without thinking!
Nameless wrote:
“Do you want a list of gdolim who participate in Pesach hotel vacations for different reasons listed? Does it matter?”
Of course not! Many Choshuvah Rabbonim go to hotels, for various reasons. Did you by mistake not read my words:
“So even those who attend Pesach retreats have an opportunity to be less ostentatious with their money- we can play down materialistic achievement in many ways”,
or perhaps you forgot to read:
“We certainly DO have Jewish pride, and will therefore strive to BEHAVE in a yiddishe, tznius, and dignified way, at home, and certainly in the public sphere such as in hotel venues”.
My words should have made it obvious to those who read carefully, that my point is ostentatiousness and flamboyance, as per our Gedolim, not ‘Mussar’ against ‘going to a hotel for Pesach’. How you chose to read disapproval regarding hotels in my post is beyond me.
Nameless ended with:
“Why can’t those who stay home be satisfied, and those who go away for the chag (is going to your parents/in-laws in fancy neighborhoods, with an inground pool, and home help different from a hotel) fulfill their Pesach chiuv? Let it go already. ”
Nice Mussar, but not related to my post, or those of others who expressed similar sentiments to my own.
Once again, let us keep our priorities straight, and strive to make a Kiddush HaSh-m in ALL venues, be it at home, at a hotel, or in any other setting.
Sarah
sorry, I didnt submit any of those comments. Your confusing me with ‘sayitlikeitis’. Reread the posts.
I mistakenly addressed Nameless instead of Sayitlikeitis, both the message is important to both:
The “letting it go” needs to come from you both, as you have entirely misread and misunderstood my post. Enjoy your hotel stay, or your home, or wherever you may be on Pesach, and please don’t get so excited when someone mentions it is wrong (according to Chazal and Gedolim) to flaunt our wealth.
Yes, “let it go”, be careful with how you appear to Nochrim, make a Kiddush HaSh-m, and enjoy a beautiful Pesach.
‘Please dont get excited when someone mentions its wrong to flaunt your wealth’
No problem. Now please dont get excited when I quote those same gedolim
who say ‘al todin es chavero ad shtgiya bmikomo’. Can we assume that many of these people who go to hotels Pesach ar e not able to make Yom Tov at home, due to ill health or age? If these people already can afford a nice hotel, why should nt they enjoy it?
Nameless, and Sarah, you both are very interesting in how you at eac other.
It makes for good entertainment.
Nameless: If you read mussar seforim or attend mussar speeches, you will find that the way a jew must conduct oneself is to live simply , not indulge in gashmious. Its a fact that when jews become powerful the goyim resent that tremendously. i did not say that becoming a doctor or lawyer causes them to hate us. what causes them to hate us is when jews are powerful in government, jews run hollywood and become just a little too well known that causes the hatred.You dont want to face reality , do you? Are you are part of the ilk that insist that we have every right to do what ever we want and nothing should get in our way no matter what the chazal taught? We are not in golus. No we are here to stay and lets shove it in their faces wheather they like it or not. We are the powerful ones and we will do what we want. You people are lentghening the golus.
Edited by Site Moderation Panel.
bklynmom Says:
“To receive one week extended membership to make up for 3 days sounds more than fair.”
However, if i am a repeat or permanent member, as many may be, the value of the “free” week is minimal.
“fox” is right. I would add that the Ramban at the beginning of Kedoshim may be quoted more often than practised.
nameless in your posts re. Winston Churchill you wrote that our attempts to integrate causes anti-semitism. Now you seen to be singing a different tune. Please explain.
I am not sure what all the fuss is about. From a business persepctive what the hotel is doing makes sense. A couple of summers ago my sister and her family went to Disney World. They paid full price for park tickets. At 6pm the park made an annoucement that everyone had to leave because a company had rented out the park from 6pm-9pm. What about all the people that had purchased tickets believeing they would be there till a night – sorry was the answer. The park made a buisness decision. Same thing here, the hotel is just accomodating its guests and reimbursing its members very nicely. I am not even sure what the issue is.
If you want to discuss whether or not people should be going to hotels and exotic locations, that’s one thing but that’s not what this particular story is about.
Yakkov Avinu put it very succinctly, “lomo tisrau”.
In other words, if you have, DON’T flaunt it.
Go argue!
‘if you have , DONT flaunt’
Your right except for one thing. Who is the Judge of what is considered ‘balabatish’ or what is considered ‘flaunting’.,? everyone must decide for themselves according to what they have…!
did we forget GOLUS !
You are all just yenting away. I want to talk tachlis: I have a shaylah- What if there is a goy in the hotel who becomes a ger IN MIDDLE of pesach. What happens? can he swim? is it a din in the reservation or a din in metzious- that in order to enter pool you must be a YID? I want tachlis,baby!
Yenta… You are saying good. I’ll give you My Psak in 3 weeks.
“No problem. Now please dont get excited when I quote those same gedolim
who say ‘al todin es chavero ad shtgiya bmikomo’. Can we assume that many of these people who go to hotels Pesach ar e not able to make Yom Tov at home, due to ill health or age?”
Tayereh Nameless, it’s not your fault you’re not reading my posts, which would help you see that I have no problem with anyone going to a hotel for Pesach; the Erev Pesach activity is surely reason enough for anyone to make a mistake. There are so many valid reasons to go; you must be mistaking my post with others (as I did with you before, so now we’re even :).
“Who is the Judge of what is considered ‘balabatish’ or what is considered ‘flaunting’?”
That is true. Each person needs to make their own decisions (consulting Da’as Torah when appropriate), and it is not our job to individually judge others. In general, I think, tznius in materialism is a good thing to discuss and increase awareness.
Susshow wrote:
“Nameless, and Sarah, you both are very interesting in how you at eac other. It makes for good entertainment. ”
Susshow, I guess I’m glad you’re entertained when two thinking people discuss issues such as tznius with materialism- I’m sure you can use the entertainment as a break from Pesach preparation.
A Kosherin Pesach to all (in all venues!)
Folks,
I have been in the industry and I could tell you this is normal. If the hotel has a group, it is very NORMAL to allow the facilities ONLY for the group. Whether or not the hotel was smart enough to put that into its contract is another thing?!