In the last few days, YW has received numerous emails from concerned consumers asking if we had any insight as to what’s really going on at Le Marais Restaurant in NYC. Here are the facts:A person by the name of Mr. Isaac Bitton worked as a Mashgiach at the restaurant and has made serious allegations against the Kashruth of the establishment. He has opened a website and a blog to rant about his allegations.
Here is his report which he claims was sent to the OU:
Report sent to Rabbi Elefant and Rabbi Luban on: Cover up for a fired chef
I know in this report I will appear more like a private “investigator” then a Mashgiach but I felt compelled all along to play that role when I saw a complete vacuum of reasonability towards Kashrut. I refuse to be part of a corruption and a mockery of basic Kashrut enforcement.
FACTS:
• The first time I heard about was when the French baguette man, Michel announced to me a week before hand that the chef of Levana was to be the next chef at Le Marais.
• This chef had just started to work at Le Marais when Rabbi Shreier on his first visit to the restaurant warned me about him saying “keep an eye on him he is a self hating Jew.
• I could also see for myself right away that he was indeed an anti-Semite.
• Another warning was given to us, the Mashgichim, about two three weeks later by people from outside. They had heard that not only he was a self hating Jew but more precisely he was fired from Levana restaurant. They urged us to be very careful.
• The first week already he had started with us his testing games (check with Rabbi Keller, the morning Mashgiach, for the incident of mixing chicken soup with a fish product.)
• The quite friendly relationship we had from the beginning did not last too long. As soon as he found out, in a conversation that I knew the Kirshenbaums his attitude completely changed. From that time on he started a whole series of provocations against me. He had hoped that by antagonizing me I would finally leave Le Marais.
• Obviously, I understood in retrospect later on, he had something to hide, he was concerned and afraid I would find out about his past since I knew the owners of Lavana.
• After a couple of months of restraint I finally confronted this chef. He stopped right away with his provocations from then on the only talk I had with him was for work related matters.
• Rabbi Keller must remember how many times he told me himself how sly this chef was because of his own experience with him.
• As we received more calls from the same people concerning this chef I finally informed Rabbi Shreier about those problems. (They had also mentioned that they sent a letter to the owner).
• I decided to call myself Avraham Kirshenbaum the owner of the Levana, to find out about these rumors. He assured me that they did not fire the chef but did admit about his bad mouthing of the Jews.
• About five months later the chef was caught red handed by Rabbi Keller smuggling OU dairy margarine, which he had brought from a Supermarket without the Rabbi’s knowledge.
• The few packages he had brought was already used in the pot (see my letter to Rabbi Shreier for details.) This on purpose act of Kashrut sabotage showed clearly the true face of this chef.
• This act went unpunished and the chef was able to keep his job thanks to his protector, Rabbi Shreier, who labeled that incident as a mistake. Though Rabbi Shreier himself issued a warning to this chef his incredible attempt to deny it in front of Rabbi Luban at the last meeting on November 9th was nothing else then a first public hiding of implicating facts. Rabbi Keller is well aware of this warning.
• A couple of days later I called directly Mrs. Levana Kirshenbaum to get her opinion about this dairy Margarine incident. Here is what she had to say about this chef. “of course if he is no longer with us, it is because we had problems with him” “People get burnt in a place and they start a new life somewhere else” She added that “he is rotten”. To my main question if she thought he could do this thing on purpose she said “I can’t answer you, ask Saul the manager”. I did call him but he was not available to comment.
• Rabbi Shreier was always adamant to dismiss this information so he wouldn’t have to admit he knew about the firing of this chef from Levana.
• However, the revelations of Mrs. Levana where clear enough a) to confirm the rumors that we had heard from the begging b) to confirm once and for all that we had at Le Marais a chef that was a big danger for Kashrut.
• Rabbi Shreier’s lack of enforcement in this matter proved me I was witnessing a cover up in the making. No matter how shocking it was I still kept salient about it. My justification to myself for keeping a low key in this matter was a) this chef had for sure learned his lesson and would fool around with Kashrut b) Rabbi Shreier is the Rav Hamachshir, and by not removing the chef is taking full responsibility for any serious problems this chef must have done before he was caught and after. c) I have at last warned everybody about the problem of the xwtd pastry kitchen (where exactly the dairy margarine smuggling occurred).
• I was proved wrong to think this chef had learned his lesson, he still went on with another series of Kashrut rule breaking. (See details in my letter to Rabbi Shreier).
• The chef’s arrogance took over again and showed us he was not deterred and could never be trusted. After signing himself under my nose for a delivery of fresh fish I decided to have a talk with the owner Jose. In that meeting I warned Jose of the danger of keeping such a chef who showed many time no respect for Kashrut. He wasn’t too receptive to my warnings, on the contrary about the incident of the dairy margarine, he try to excuse his chef saying “maybe he did see it was dairy margarine but since he did not find anything else he had no choice then to bring this one”. What a blunder! Is that something we want to hear from a meat restaurant owner?! It is a this meeting that I learned how through an ad they posted in the newspaper the chef came to land at Le Marais.
• My latest attempt to avoid the consequence of this whole affair going public was to place a call to Mrs. Levana, herself, last week, hoping she can testify directly to Rabbi Luban what she had told me last year. She declined to do so saying she doesn’t have anything to do anymore with Levana restaurant. She did however confirm again the chef was fierd for bad behavior.
The last proof of the cover up
• In the last meeting with Rabbi Luban and Rabbi Elefant, November 9th, Rabbi Shreier vehemently denied he knew anything about this chef being hired by Le Marais. So last week I had a talk with Jose the owner, and he confirmed that he had called Rabbi Shreier to let him know about his wish to hire this chef but wanted to know if everything was ok with him. Since he had worked before with another OU establishment.
THE OU RESPONDS:
A few months ago, a mashgiach at Le Marais restaurant, Mr. Isaac Bitton, alleged that on several occasions, one of the chefs at Le Marais intentionally compromised the kashrus at Le Marais, and that he had been fired from his previous employment for that very reason as well. Mr. Bitton insisted and demanded that the chef be fired.
Over a period of months the OU carefully researched and investigated every accusation, and we spoke to all parties whom Mr. Bitton claimed had information. Obviously, the presence of an individual who is hostile to our kosher program would seriously compromise our ability to provide reliable supervision. At the same time, fairness dictates that if allegations are made against a Jew or non-Jew, the accusations must be independently verified before one is dismissed from his position.
The OU found no evidence of intent to compromise kashrus by this chef. People quoted by Mr. Bitton resolutely denied statements attributed to them. For example, Mr. Bitton claimed the chef was fired from Levana for kashrus infractions, and the management would verify that this was the case. We spoke to the management of Levana and they emphatically stated that this was not true. Mr. Bitton then said a sister of the management would confirm his allegation. She too said she had no knowledge of this matter. Mr. Bitton then claimed that he secretly tape recorded a conversation with the sister and she admitted and confirmed that the chef was fired for Kashrus reasons. The OU staff listened to the tape and at no point did she confirm the above. Initially, she denied that the chef was fired for Kashrus violations. After Mr. Bitton relentlessly pressed the issue, she said he should pursue the matter further with the appropriate parties, if he so desired. Mr. Bitton maintained that not denying the allegation was tantamount to confirming it. We considered it a misrepresentation to characterize this as a confirmation.
Other individuals who worked closely with the chef, such as the second Mashgiach at Le Marais, gave no support to the allegations. With the exception of Mr. Bitton, everyone found the chef to be cooperative.
Mr. Bitton developed amazing conspiratorial theories involving crime organizations to explain why people denied his allegations, and attributed dark and evil motives to sincere and honest individuals within the OU.
Mr. Bitton was dogmatic in his interpretations of situations and did not acknowledge the legitimacy of other opinions. We explained to Mr. Bitton that he was entitled to his opinion, but we do not have to agree. He insisted that his viewpoint is fact and not an opinion.
For example, in one instance the chef purchased dairy margarine for the restaurant (though it was caught before it was used). There is no evidence that the chef did not make an honest error. Indeed, the OU receives numerous calls from people who accidentally used OUD margarine in a meat dish. Mr. Bitton insisted the chef bought the product with malicious intent. In another case, a delivery of non-kosher fish (which was also not used) was dropped off at the restaurant over Shabbos while the store was closed. Mr. Bitton insisted that the chef made the order, though there was no evidence linking the chef to the order, and the fish company advised the OU that the delivery was made in error to the wrong customer. Once again, Mr. Bitton maintained that his interpretation was a fact and not an opinion.
Mr. Bitton threatened to make a public expose of this “cover-up”. The OU took a principled position and did not acquiesce to threats and intimidation.
In protest of our decision to not have the chef fired, Mr. Bitton voluntarily resigned from his position at the restaurant. Since then, Mr. Bitton and others have circulated e-mail allegations about this matter. Many of the statements are patently false, such as the accusation that the chef physically assaulted Mr. Bitton and intentionally placed insects in the food. In a private conversation with an OU staff member, Mr. Bitton admitted that this was not true. Another allegation is that the OU chose to defend the chef for financial considerations. This accusation is absurd. Had the OU insisted that the chef be dismissed, it would have had no financial impact on the OU, as Le Marais would readily have complied. Indeed, the easiest course for the OU would have been for the OU to ask the restaurant to dismiss this chef, and the whole matter would have been put to rest. The OU did not take this course of action because we felt that the kashrus of the restaurant was properly served and to dismiss a chef without just cause was unethical and immoral.
The OU stands firmly behind its supervision of Le Marais and the kashrus there is maintained in full accordance with OU standards.
Rabbi Yaakov Luban
Executive Rabbinic Coordinator
Rabbi Menachem Genack
Chief Executive Officer
Kashruth Division
Orthodox Union
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65 Responses
Count me in, as a NON EATER at LaMarais, if there is an opening of disagreement about a restaurant, RUN the other way. Anyway, prices are super inflated!!
The yetzer horoh to eat at restaurants or go to “kosher” hotels is so strong that people overlook the fact that intentional or not it’s IMPOSSIBLE to guaranty that what you’re eating is kosher, too many things can & do go wrong daily.
Without adressing the issue, as I do not have the facts, (just allegations), let me ask you this: Why was the chef doing the ordering and purchasing of foodstuffs? Shouldn’t a shomer Torah UMotzvos be doing that? Just some “food for thought”…
What sayitlikeitis says is purely believing Motzie Shem Ra, and then spreading it further. What you said is the exact definition of a Rochel, the root of the word, Richilus, that you go around “selling” and promoting the false or unsubstantiated information.
According to you, sayitlikeitis, you would shut down every restaurant that had any inkling at all of an issue, even without verifying the facts. Childish, and Assur, and dangerous to Yiddisha businessmen in the food service industry.
I personally know Rabbi Luban, and controversy or not, any restaurant that has his blessing is beyond reproach, and probably more Kosher than your (or my) own kitchen!
Inflated prices or not, make my steak medium rare!!!!
I’ve never eaten there but now maybe I’ll make a point in going there! Either you trust the OU or you don’t. This Mashgiach in his “testimony” sounds like he had some personal issue with that chef and was trying to get him back. What should I say, You have this Kashrus huge establishment who’s been in the business for years and only been getting better and better vs. this mashgiach, I’ll go with the OU’s version.
WHY IN THE WORLD DO WE HAVE TO EAT BY GOYIM?
There are enough GREAT RESTAURANTS owned by ehriche yidden.
Go to Yussi’s Grill in Lakewood. I was there the other day and it’s georgeous.
Great food and Yiddishe taam….. with a smile.
“There are enough GREAT RESTAURANTS owned by ehriche yidden.
Go to Yussi’s Grill in Lakewood.”
Great idea! People in Manhattan should travel a couple of hours to eat at Yussi’s Grill. What could be more simple?
I dont usually respond to comments to my comments, here I will say , thanks for the mussar haskale. I dont see where making a personal decision is promoting, selling or repeating loshon hara, and I never suggested a “shut down”. I am a OU supporter & eater, and medium rare is my taste.
I must admit that my initial reaction was just like sayitlikeitis. Why eat where there is even a “chashash?” However, this is a textbook case of the power of Lashon Hara. People could (perhaps unjustifiably) lose their business, their reputation, and on a and on. WE DON’T REALLY KNOW ANYTHING. If you don’t want to eat there because you are machmir on what you eat, that is admirable. BUT when people could lose everything in what may turn out to be just a scandal, please, please, be just as machmir about that!! If you want to “run the other way” because you might be causing harm by what goes into your mouth, please, “run the other way” from things that might cause harm to untold numbers of yidden by what comes out of your mouth.
Or Yeshezkel’s in Williamsurg. Heimish ownership and hashgocho + top rated in Zagats!
Of most concern to me in this whole discussion is how could any employee bring any ingredients into a kosher restaurant without the Mashgiach’s approval.
Whether or not the chef made an honest error in his purchase of dairy margarine is irrelevant. How can we let a chef purchase and bring items into a restaurant. Does the chef know what hashgochos are relied upon by the OU.
Is it standard procedure for the OU to allow non-jewish workers to bring ingredients into a restaurant????????
I believe that these are questions that the OU must answer regardless as to the status of Le Marais.
Reb Kishke –
From you????
With a name like Kishke… I am sure you would’ve tried Yussi’s Kishke by now.
You think that you’ll get a Kishke like that in Manhattan?
If I were you… I would be Yussi’s spokesman in all of his ads.
Have a great Shabbos.
Whoever you are… I’ll be thinking of you on Shabbos, while enjoying Yussi’s Kishke.
For all those who consider themselves meticulous in the laws of kashrus, I would be appalled to know you would consider even entering this establishment!! The fact that we have R’L been exposed to so many kashrus scandals (by supposed erliche yidden for so many years) under the noses of numerous kashrus organizations, should send shivers to anyone even thinking of going to this restaurant!! If your desperate for steak in ‘the city’ – find another reliable establishment, don’t risk it by going to this one. Just to illustrate my point: if someone made allegations that a product MAY have traces of poison in it, would you eat it??!! Even if the producer ‘assured’ you its ok – would you eat it?? I wouldn’t!! its not like your in a desert with no food for a week and someone offers you this possibly contaminated product! B’H there are so many reliable establishments, no one will starve!! And NU, NEBACH what will happen if you don’t ‘go out’ to eat???
In fact let this incident be yet another wake up call to get kashrus organizations to be more scrupulous in their work!! ANY alleged suspicion should be treated like a “terror threat” and be taken very seriously!!
One last point: were right before Pesach, when everyone is sooooo machmir on the slightest possibility of a derivative of a derivative of kitnyois!!
Take a bit of that kashrus concern, and apply it to our every day kashrus – if we do that we’ll have a better kosher consumer and a better kosher supervision standard!
TO Simpleyid Your assertions of either you trust or you don’t are ludicrous. I for one trust Hashgocchos but prefer to eat in establishents that are owned by Ehrliche Yidden. It is very different giving a Hashgocha to someone who understands and wishes to comply and just needs to be assisted, as opposed to someone who does not share your values, really has no chashivus for kashrus, needs the Hashgocha for his business and will do anything he can to get away cheap. Pull your head out of the sand, it is hard to say that saying I trust the OU implicitly will fly in Neis Din Shell Maalah, if there were raeusos in specific instances.
kishke you stole the words right out of my mouth. But I think we’re missing b mazel’s point here – free advertising. I would guess there’s some relationship with the store owner and this person wants to boost business. Last time we heard from b mazel on was by the Hachnossas Sefer Torah
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=5718#comments
another free advertising opportunity. YW editor isn’t there a rule against this?
BTW, is Le Marais owned by a goy? I was not aware – does anyone really know?
Have we not learned from the Monsey chicken issue. If someone wants to bring treif into a store and operates like a Miragel (spy) even the best supervision will be trumped. The OU or any other supervising agency must remove questionable employees from the food chain in oder to prevent another embarssment for the agency and to prevent Torah Yidden from eating treif.
We also must remember the entire issue of kosher is based on trust and Yiras Shamayim
May H”B protect us from our enemies both from within and from outside
IT SOUNDS LIKE THE SAME KIND OF COVERUP THAT HAPPENED BY EMPIRE KOSHER POULTRY 6 TO 7 YEARS . IF YOUR NOT FAMILIAR WITH WHAT WENT ON THERE, SPEAK TO RABBI BESS FROM L.A., RABBI FIRST FROM CHICAGO, RABBI E. GINSBERG, OR RABBI M. SCHIENERMAN FROM BROOKLYN, N.Y.. SEE WHAT HAPPENED TO THE THE PEOPLE THAT TRIED TO DO SOMETHING. – THE BOTTOM LINE IS- MONEY RULES THE BIG KASHARUS ORGANIZATIONS. – SHIAY M.
Frumblogger,
I think your analogy to poison is way off base.
If there was an allegation of poison in a product and the product’s producer said it’s okay, I would not eat it. BUT, if an independent agency tested the food and said it was fine, then I would eat it.
The same thing here. If Le Marais had issued the statement saying that the former Mashgiach was wrong, I too wouldn’t eat there. BUT, once the OU, which is an independent and trustworthy agency, has checked the issue thouroughly and has cleared up the issue by showing that the Mashgiach was spreading malicious and false accusations, there should be no reason not to eat there.
Squeak –
We don’t have much choices in Lakewood. It just happens to be that
Yussi’s is the nicest place we have, and I wish him much Hatzlocho.
Squeak, I’ll be thinking of you when I eat Yussi’s gala – I doubt you can get that in Manhattan.
Good Shabbos.
b mazel: I know you are what you eat, but I am one person who is not.
Kishke and Squeak-
Please don’t take this nonsense so serious.
Wishing you my name,,,, MAZEL v’kol tuv.
Have a great Shabbos and Kosheren Zeesen Pesach – for Klal Yisroel.
This is a comment I sent to the OU. Just wanted to share with this group and maybe get your reactions:
Dear OU Communications,
I have received the clarification e-mail that you sent out regarding Le Marais. Unfortunately it raises as many questions as it answers. Foremost on my mind is why the OU would deny wholesale the allegations of your former mashgiach (in an e-mail from a few days ago, which I have pasted below), only now to explain that there is actually a grain of truth to two of his central allegations (the dairy margarine and the shellfish). Even if you are correct and both these incidents were innocent mistakes (as I would also tend to think that they probably were), why not explain them to your public from the beginning? It leads one to conclude that you take your public to be too simple minded to understand the difference between an innocent mistake and an intentional act, and so in order to to maintain our confidence you felt you had to deny the story in its entirety. Surely it was simpler to do that than to bother explaining that there are sometimes breaches of supervision, but that in this case they were corrected before anything bad happened, and that there was no fundamental problem with the supervisory process. You did not give your public credit for being able to understand and accept this. This is patronizing. And you chose that course even though in the process you were implicitly making out one of your former employees (and a rabbi) to be a liar who is fabricating the story from whole cloth. In addition, by issuing the tersely worded clarification, you omitted material information necessary to make your denials not misleading in light of the context in which they were made. This is not true honesty.
Moreover, a close reading of your most recent clarification leads me to believe that you are giving away just enough to satisfy a by-now-suspicious public, but are still not being totally open with us. I think it requires explanation, for example, why the chef would be bringing ingredients, kosher or non-kosher, into the restaurant in any event. I am unschooled in the procedures of hashgacha, but basic management principles and common sense would dictate that ingredient-buying and delivery would be acitvities that need close monitoring in a supervised restaurant, and that there would be person whose job it was to purchase kosher ingredients. Why did the chef bypass this person? In other words, how could even an innocent mistake of bringing dairy products into the restaurant take place? A related question is why there are fish deliveries, kosher or non-kosher, taking place on Shabbat? Shouldn’t a mashgiach be present when food is delivered to the restaurant? If the restaurant was closed, was the fish left on the sidewalk until it opened on Saturday night? Or is the restaurant routinely open on Shabbat to accept deliveries and for other administrative reasons? If so, I find that problematic. You don’t have to have rabbinical ordination to see that if there is no supervisory presence in a restaurant, and the owner and managers of the restaurant are goyim, they should not not be trusted to adhere to Jewish laws regarding the use of the kitchen and ingredients. This is especially the case on Saturdays, when they would know with certainty that there will be no Mashgiach to intrude upon them in a surprise inspection.
In short, even if the conclusions of your investigations are all accurate, I am left deeply troubled by the implications of the Le Marais incident.
I love how the OU responds to this issue with a nice letter many moons after the story breaks. I also wonder why the OK dropped this establishment. At the time I thought that it was a monetary issue, but perhaps it wasn’t. These are valid concerns that the OU didn’t address in their letter.
Yes this store is owned and operated by a gentile. Yes we should not allow staff (specifically non-jewish) to bring outside ingredients into a restaurant at all! If they run out their should be a process that they follow.
That said I have eaten here and I love their food. I also think that the OU is a trusted kashrus org. But, everyone could use some help in this area.
kishke you are right…
next time i have to take a client out to lunch in Midtown Manhattan, i will definitely get on a NJ Transit bus and go down to Lakewood…
Anon
good post
i share the same concerns how can a goy purchase ingredients,
What gets me even more scared is the OU admittance that there was a margarine issue (that supposedly was caught on time ) and if that is not enough they admit there was a fish meat issue (supposedly caught on time too)
havent they learned a lesson yet, it scares me to think how many were not caught on time!
and any way why in the world have margarine which is ussually a pareve product made dairy isnt that itself a michshol!
Same old kashrus issues being repeated, nothing changed,
I wouldnt step into establishments or hotels with these type of supervisions, were these issues are constantly gioing on.
just my personal choice and opinion
Eating out was not a tradition from “der alter heim”. When people travelled , they had to eat so they ate at Jewish owned inns, but, the idea of eating out in restaraunts is a relatively modern phenomenom. If we must have kosher restaraunts, they should hire only erlicher Yidden for everything, including the cooking. Even if the chef made a mistake with the margarine (which to me sounds quite fishy) it shows there is a possibility for problems which seriously compromise the kashrus . I would not eat there or in any other establishment that did not have an all Jewish, frum, staff.
You people are unbelievable. You trust the OU on everything else regarding kashrus, but some guy makes some accusations which are disputed by the OU and everyone goes crazy. The OU checked into it and said it’s good. That’s all there is to it. If you believe the OU to be a corrupt organization unconcerned with Kashrus then you should probably stop eating everything with an OU. It’s amazing how many people are ready to jump ship because one guy no one knows says something against a very reputable organization like the OU.
Joseph: You are being inane. Try and get a grip.
Groiseh Shkoyach to Yeshivaworld for bringing this issue to the public. We know we can count on you.
Rodef Shalom, your point is well taken, that OU does not suddenly become disreputable because of one incident. But I guess my point is that even if everything is 100% kosher food-wise, everything is not 100% kosher beyn-adam la-chaveyro. I perceive a problem with the manner in which the whole issue has been handled internally and the way it is being communicated to the kosher public. I will keep eating OU (my wife will kill me if I tell her to stop buying OU products) and in a few months I might even forget this whole incident and eat at Le Marais–as I said, I actually do believe that the investigations they did probably did arrive at correct factual conclusions and that the food is as kosher as the next place. But there honestly has been an erosion in my confidence in OU the organization. Admittedly my skepticism is not new and not limited to this incident and not limited to the OU organization either. I am skeptical by nature but I’m also a realist and realize we live in the real world…plus did I mention my wife would kill me…?
As usual, the OU is still the best hechsher by far.
In regards to the comment from “YESHIVish,” I would just like correct a misspelled name. It’s R’ Fuerst from Chicago, not R’ First. Please make sure you have the proper spelling before stating someone’s name in reference to anything.
This WHOLE story is a false accusation. If u read this story like a detective u see that he was the one prob ordering the non kosher fish and the butter, settting up the chef. CHAP??
It is plain obvious that this bitton dude hated this chef.
If ANYONE think OU is standing behind le maris they ARE OUT OF THEIR MIND. I WOULD EAT THERE YESTERDAY>
and we should also try to avoid posting loshen hora on this website.
OneBigSketch:
WHAT are you talking about??!!
You are contradicting yourself all over the place.
First you say that the Mashgiach set up the OU, then you said that the OU would never stand behind the restaurant.
THEN you said that you would eat there yesterday?
I am confused buddy..
to say that if you eat one thing from the ou you should eat everything makes no sense. A prime example is ou d. Besides that, there are many things that the ou feels are mutar and the star k argues. The opposite is also true. It is therefore very possible that when mixing 2 ingredients you end up with something that both agree is asur, albeit for different reasons. The only way around this is to go through their psakim or consult with someone who did. I have gone through hundreds of psakim from several organizations. Rabbi Luban can verify this. I therefore eat some things from one and some from the other. This includes heimishe hechsherim. Others should either do the same or talk to someone who did. with that said it is likely that regarding physical supervision of food service establishments the ou is the best by far. They are one of the only ones who require a mashgiach temidi for all of them. This includes pizza shops and caterers.
But there honestly has been an erosion in my confidence in OU the organization.
Let’s see.
On one hand you have the pre-eminent kashrus organization in America saying that the accuser is just plain wrong about his allegations and seems to have some kind of agenda.
On the other hand you have a guy nobody knows making wild accusations against the chef and the restaurant, and after the OU investigated his claim and found them to be baseless, he accuses the OU of engineering a coverup. Smells of paranoia if you ask me.
But yet you have people questioning the OU in this incident. I don’t get it. Why would you take his word over theirs?
Rabbosai, may I quote from mr. Bitton himself? He wrote: “This chef had just started to work at Le Marais when Rabbi Shreier on his first visit to the restaurant warned me about him saying “keep an eye on him he is a self hating Jew.”
A gentile, no matter how anti-Semitic, is not a self-hating Jew.
Other than that, I would agree with several of the writers who suggest trusting kashrus at places run by ehrlich yidden more than trusting the semblance of kashrus at places owned or operated by gentiles.
Anyone who is not personally vested in the obligation to observe a mitzvah can not be 100% committed to performing the mitzvah.
The crucial issue in this case is cheskas kashrus.
Which, in mittn drinnen, is somewhat in doubt as far as Le Marais is concerned – either one of their employees WAS compromising kashrus, OR one of their employees was himself so ‘unkosher’ as to, without actual grounds, call their kashrus into question, or interfere with it himself.
Either way, at the time that mr. Bitton was there, something was going on.
Since then, there has been loshon horo and motzi shem ro about the issue. Has the issue really been resolved?
I used to work in midtown Manhattan and would often need a place to eat with colleagues; not because I wanted to but because I was EXPECTED to in conformity with the corporate culture I worked in. Le Marais filled this need beautifully. So to all those commentators saying they would ONLY eat in Lakewood, or Williamsburg, or places with heimish ownership, or with heimish workers, or nowhere since it’s a new affluent Jew thing, keep in mind that many hundreds (thousands?) of frum people would have nowhere else to turn to when REQUIRED by work to eat out, if not for La Marais and places like that. So let’s hope this kashrus issue gets resolved quickly!!
OU is the best Hescher.
Be honest with yourselves- does it bother some of you ” yeshive guys ” that the OU stems for the more “centrist” brand of Orthodoxy?
OU represents ” erhichlike ” Yiddishkeit. A yiddishkeit that is honest and sincere, one that searches for Emes and doesn’t stand behind ” levush ”
Reflect on this:
Kosher chicken scandals don’t happen with OU Hasgacha.
“Food” for thought. (sorry, couldn’t resist that pun)
Yehudi Echad: That is why you only go to hotels or restaurants where you trust the hechsher that is no reason not to go to a restaurant or hotel. You never went to a restaurant or hotel before?
Anon 1232,
It is very common with any establishment under ANY hashgocha for the chef to bring in an ingredient if they run out. This is normal and BH it was caught.
ModOrth 849, if you walked into the OU kashrus office you would not beleive it has anything to do with a “centrist” organization. If fact if you saw any gathering of the entire kashrus staff as I have been zoche to see on many occasions, you would see mostly very frum mostly “right wing” people.
Modern orthodox
do some research on charlottre chickens back in the eighties under the ou where for years was being switched with neveilos, it makes the monsey story pale,
just athe facts
Kosher chicken scandals don’t happen with OU Hasgacha.
That’s an irresponsible, deliberately inflammatory statement and shows that you don’t really understand the hechsher process today. I realize that you’re saying this just to provoke, but even so I feel I have to respond to uphold the kavod of the rav hamachshir.
Baruch Hashem there has only been one kosher chicken scandel of that magnitude. It had absolutely nothing to do with the hechsher and could’ve happened just as easily with an OU hechsher. There is no such thing as 100% certaintly in hechsherim without relying somewhat on an ed echad.
Not knowing the facts, and just reading this post, it would seem that anyone who blindly boycotts the establishment on the account of an unproven word is, whether admitting it or not, feeding in to exactly what the accuser wants. Not the truth, necessarily, but the destruction of a business and the reputation of the owner. I would think we need to be smarter and above it and not hurt someone so wantonly.
What is bizarre about this is that if all it takes is someone’s accusation of wrongdoing to make good people stay away in order to “not take a chance” than anyone at any time can seek revenge for a bad meal, poor waiter service, personal gripe, bad hair day, rejected shidduch date, etc, and hurt an innocent business in the process.
Not sure that is what G-d has demanded of us Jews at Sinai. Not sure our sages through the ages would want us to take a man’s parnossa with such casual shrug.
What does the Chofetz Chaim say?…..
While every hashgacha has issues from time to time I find it very problamatic when a particular hashgacha spends more time trying to defend themselves then acknowledging the problem.
It is obvious that a problem existed. Admit this and move on. I have more faith in people who admit their mistakes then those who envelop themselves in a false aura of perfection.
M. O. how do you define best? By supervision or by standards? Your impression that noone intentionaly gets things by the ou and that there have never been scandals is simply not true. They will tell you that themselves. As far as them being a “centrist” organization that depends where you draw the line to the left. If only torah observant jews are included they are definitely to the left of center. “Erlich” is very subjective. You are certainly right that they don’t base things on levush, but that does not in itself make them more honest. It isn’t always a maalah to ignore dress as it is sometimes ignored when it is not tznius as well.
Modern:
Some of us are old enough to remember the OU Shelat chicken scandal. Try again.
Besides, the reason the OU is getting better is that it realizes that fewer and fewer serious frumer leit accept the old standards, and it has moved more to the right in response.
Edited by Site Moderation Panel
I just got this emailed to me from a woman in Lakewood who knows my family.
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Hi everyone,
The email that we have all been receiving about the unkosher activities occurring at Le Marais is pretty descriptive and disturbing in its allegations.
In addressing my own concerns I have contacted the OU and Le Marais to find out what is really going on.
Here is the story:
The evening mashgiach and the chef had a big falling out. When the owner would not fire the chef, the mashgiach resigned and started a smear campaign against the restaurant. The OU is still giving certification to the restaurant and has investigated the issues and found NO HALACHIC VIOLATIONS.
1) Shellfish- The rabbi alleges that the chef ordered shellfish and used it in the restaurant. In reality a new food delivery company for a restaurant next door made a mistake and dropped off the wrong package on a day Le Marais was closed to patrons, but open for construction. The box containing the shell fish was never even brought into the restaurant but left at the door. The delivery company admitted the error and has the invoice to prove it.
2) Unkosher Margarine- The chef of Le Marais ran out of margarine and went to a supermarket up to get some more. Upon his return the mashgiach saw that the chef had purchased OU-Dairy margarine. The dairy margarine was brought right back and NEVER came near ant food. The chef realized the mistake and since then has been even more careful, and relies on the mashgiach’s advice for everything purchased in an emergency situation.
3) Strawberries- The claims that strawberries that had not been properly checked were used. This is just not true as the morning mashgiach, Rabbi Avrohom Keller, had cleaned and checked all the strawberries.
4) Turning on the flame- the daytime mashgiach, Rabbi Avrohom Keller, has never ever seen this in his experiences with the chef.
5) Beetles in the lettuce- The rabbi claims that the chef intentionally placed bugs in the salad. It is the mashgiach’s responsibility to check the lettuce for bugs before it is served; yet, the chef he directs his anger wasn’t even at the restaurant the night he claims it happened.
Again the OU has investigated and found these to either be slander or misunderstandings. The OU is still giving their certification.
I hope that you will trust the OU here as we do on so many of our products and trust the integrity of the owners of le Marais, who have been slandered for no reason other than the anger of a disgruntled mashgiach. What the allegations amount to is a bizarre reversal of the old Jewish “blood Libel” canard, as the chef and the owner of Le Marais are not Jewish, and are being accused of intentionally feeding Jews treif to satisfy some perversion.
After speaking with the owner of Le Marais and meeting Rabbi Avrohom Keller, a good man and trustworthy mashgiach, I hold them in much esteem for being so thorough in their investigation to get to the bottom of this. The daytime mashgiach stated very clearly that the evening mashgiach was warned repeatedly by the OU to stop making up his own rules about kashrut and stop the rumors and gossip he was creating, and to stick to the kashrut guidelines of the OU.
Rabbi Yakkov Luban and Rabbi Dov Schreier at the OU, prepared a defense of Le Marais and disgust over the slander. I have enclosed it with this email.
If anything changes I will be sure to let you know.
Avra
That was a great resoponseto the OU, joseph99. You took what I and I’m sure so many others are thinking and put it in writting so eloquently. Please share with us any response that you receive from the OU if you get one.
Hold on a second. A respected and trusted organization such as the OU places a Rabbi as the representative of the OU in order to be its eyes and ears for the sake of OUR Kashrus. The Mashgiach reports back with these accusations, what do you do??? It’s his word against the chef.
My G-d! Have we stooped so low that we will take the word of a guy over the word of our own (for money)? One who’s job it was to report these very actions.
I could care less about what the investigation brings. A frum yid that you place as the Mashgiach comes and tells you, “hey, this chef actively defying our laws,” he goes through the loops and brings you the evidence, what would you expect an organization such as the OU to do?
What does it say about the OU when it puts out a letter claiming this Rabbi has nothing better to do than lie about a chef? It’s the best way to brush this story under the rug, “he’s paranoid.”
In regards to those who have said that this is just Lashon Hara, or that “these are false accusations”, IT’S THE MASHGIACH THAT IS SAYING THESE THINGS, NOT ANY JOE SCHMO FROM OFF THE STREET. IF YOU DON’T TRUST HIM, HOW COULD YOU EAT IN ANY RESTAURANT?
Rodef Shalom Says:
March 23rd, 2007 at 6:05 pm
On one hand you have the pre-eminent kashrus organization in America saying that the accuser is just plain wrong about his allegations and seems to have some kind of agenda.
On the other hand you have a guy nobody knows making wild accusations against the chef and the restaurant, and after the OU investigated his claim and found them to be baseless, he accuses the OU of engineering a coverup. Smells of paranoia if you ask me.
But yet you have people questioning the OU in this incident. I don’t get it. Why would you take his word over theirs?
PEOPLE, BE AWARE OF THIS KIND OF TACTIC
THE OU KNOWS IT’S IN TROUBLE, IT WILL STOOP EVEN LOWER
fmlogic said: “It is obvious that a problem existed.”
That’s not obvious at all. It seems far more likely that the problem is with the mashgiach, not the chef and not the OU. Yours is more illogic than logic.
In response to “Modern ortho”
>>>>OU is the best Hescher.>>> Be honest with yourselves- does it bother some of you ” yeshive guys ” that the OU stems for the more “centrist” brand of Orthodoxy?>>> OU represents ” erhichlike ” Yiddishkeit. A yiddishkeit that is honest and sincere, one that searches for Emes and doesn’t stand behind ” levush ”>>> Reflect on this: Kosher chicken scandals don’t happen with OU Hasgacha.
Arow
good point
I find it interesting that the OU who employed Rabbi Biton as there Mashgiach
now suddenly refers to him as Mr Bitton in their letter,
A guess its a quick demotion for questioning their kashrus.
Response:
1) OU represents a centrist brand of Orthodoxy. The fact that they employ and give Parnosah to right wing YU types as well as Lakewood types is great, IMO. But the OU is not Aggaduh, sorry.
2) Like it or not, the Kosher chicken scandal represented the “9/11” or the “mother” of all Hasgacha scandals. OU long ago put methadology in place such as bar-coding preventing this from happening.
3)The Masgiach in the kosher kitchen scandal is the most wonderful, Erlich person around. Sadly, this scandal happened under his watch and his legacy will be forever tainted with that tragedy.
4) The Mashgeichim that are employed by the OU have one common denominator- not tricks, no ” Koonsim ” Do not reson from a converse and say my thoughts imply that other Mashgichim are not honest. If you have met any of the OU Mashgiechim you will know exactly what I mean.
5) As an addendum to point #4, I have testimony from a man employed in a certain food industry, where a particular ” run ” of a baked food products is then labeled as ” Heimeshe ” but the basic Hasgacha is OU. This man, a very frum Jew, says the OU Mashgeichem come at any hour of the day or night while the Heimeshe Mashgeichem are no where to be found. Who’s tricking whom in this situation?
6) In my opinion, it is troubling to some more yeshive types that they have to rely on the OU for Hasgacha, an organization that represents a certain form of Orthodoxy that they may disdain. To those people I say the following- look at the restaraunt in question here and think how many financial deals are consummated at this establishment. After all we Orthodox Jews make deals over food, not on the golf course. Now think of all the Tzedaka money emanating from these deals helping finance institutions such as Lakewood. Be very grateful that the OU can provide the hasgacha and accomodate the business world allowing the money flow to continue.
Arrow: That’s ridiculous. It’s not at all uncommon to hire someone and then find out that he has an attitude problem.
So according to the ‘verified’ story, the check ran out of an ingredient, and ran out the supermarket, and brought back dairy stuff.
This story is scary for a number of reasons.
1) Why did the chef, who has a huge staff, himself run out to the supermarket? Could he not have sent a bus boy??
2) He ran out, and came back with 1 tub. Being as busy a place as it is, 1 tub will last how long??
3) So it was caught before it made it into the kitchen. Was it caught by luck or because of a process in place.
While I won’t deny that its possible the mashgiach has an issue with the chef, the fact the the OU confirms the basis of the story, leaves a doubt in my mind. Modeh bemiktzas, modeh bakol.
YW EDITOR: Why are you letting this post continue!? It is just LH and everyone telling their opinions etc when surely Le Marais is losing business. You should close the comments and just post an update directly from the OU of if the restaraunt is kosher or not. I don’t think the specifs etc matter–just say whether we should eat their or not (and I dont even eat there cause I live in LA!)
To, b mazel, kishke, & squeak,
Why don’t we all go to Yussie’s tonight for supper.
I’m sure b mazel would let us eat there free of charge.
I agree with LA Reader, but since comments are open, I’ll add my quick 2 cents.. okay, its a nickel’s worth:
As far as I know, I do not know the mashgiach at all nor do I have any relationship with the OU.
To those scandalized “believing a goy instead of one of our own” and by the “demotion” of the Mashgiach: I’m not sure that every mashgiach is a “Rabbi,” nor does a person’s employment as a maschgiach ensure that he would not resort to misinformation because of a personal vendetta
According to the OU, the mashgiach admitted that he invented the stories about being assaulted and the beetles being added to the salad. If that is in fact the case, the mashgiach’s charges are not even worthy of a second look.
To the fellow who views this as a Bnei Torah vs. YU thing — and to those who are foolshily and wrongly joining what they perceive as a battle because they are “l’sheim shamayim” against the Modern Orthodox. Even if the Kasris division was run by the MO, it would we wrong. But it is run by Beni Torah who are neither Modern Orthodox nor YU talmidim, so both those MOs reading this an anti YU campaign and any follish others are all off base.
Hello fellow Bloggers.
Please know that the O-U has a major lack of dis-respect for Rabbi Bitton.
In the way the handled the responses to the pulbic and how they painted him.
Unfortunately people are gravitating towards the O-U because they like to believe they can trust them.. if they can’t …then their whole trusting world comes to a crash… every frum jew wants to continue living in the cushy bumpered cacoon world they live in by believing the O-U has their best interests in mind.
The simple fact that they can belittle Rabbi Bitton who is the most trustful yid, and G-d fearing person (from those who know him – and for those who don’t – you have no idea who this man is and how bad it is what they are doing to him)…they do this to someone who was JUST DOING his JOB is horrible.
So basically, you need 10 mashgiach’s in a restaurant and the O-U will take a poll from all of them to figure out their thoughts when something ‘goes wrong’.
they are sick to the core.
the simple fact that they could not take his word for it is pathetic.
the other mashgiach – Rabbi Keller – if anyone knows him then you would understand his whole stance on this story. this guy won’t even stomp a fly. he’s petrified of the establishement. this guy would never stand up for himself ever not to be mean but these are FACTS about him.
the ou got to him but they obviously could not to Rabbi Bitton.
I don’t know him extremely well – I did know very well of him and trust me when I say he’s a good yid, y’ras shamayim and everything that goes along with it.
all you naysayers are very wrong.
the thing everyone should take away from this is to be more prudent. don’t be so trusting .
good luck to everyone in your kashrus and freilichen pesach.
Edited by Site Moderation Panel
Either the Lashon Hara stops NOW, or this thread will be closed.
It’s pretty pathetic that close to THREE HUNDRED comments were submitted, yet only 60 were approved!
Please.
Only 1/5 comments get approved?
I’m very honored that my thoughts were posted.
May I wish all of Klall Yisroel a Chag Kosher V’samayach.
My Pesach thought re: Kashruth- the best Hasgachah is your house. Always stay home for Pesach…. Never quite understood this whole “Kosher for Pesach Hotel” industry….
“O-U has a major lack of dis-respect for Rabbi Bitton.”
You mean they do respect him or they don’t?
>>
SO WHY NOT JUST CLOSE IT??? YOU’RE JUST TEMPTING PEOPLE. PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE SELF CONTROL TO STOP TALKING LASHON HARA!
EITHER EAT AT LE MARAIS OR DO NOT—WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO TO TALK ABOUT IT!?
If this discussion is closed, it would be a disgrace to TRUTH and would undoubtedly give the OU a lot of naches. And for the hundreds of messages that are not posted, I think that you (YW Editor) must have a good reason for not posting them.
…..and we must have a good reason for deleting the rest of your seven page megillah.
This thread is now closed.
YW Moderation Panel.