Members of the Open House for “filth” and Tolerance asked the Jerusalem Police on Sunday to allow them to hold a “SHAME” parade in the capital on June 21. Officials at the Jerusalem District Police said in response that “the request has been received and we are now reviewing it.” (Ynet)
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35 Responses
NOT AGAIN – Yimach Shmom – how much do these police people want to put up with (more fires, riots, etc.) – Yimach Shmom!
I think it is much better to see these fellow Jews as misguided folks who really need help. Bashing them only gives more wind to their sails. there are Jewish groups that help I think it is important to get the word out about solutions.
Edited by YW Site Moderation Panel.
“Misguided folks”….
Yeah OK.
Well guess what sir? The Torah does not call them “misguided folks”, and does give us “solutions” for them.
They are the WORST form of sub-human crud who must be banished from society.
There can be no negotiating with these parasites.
Also, do yourself a favor and STAY AWAY from them.
THEY HAVE “DESIESES”!!
Vehamayvin Yavin!!
i cant wait for the roits i am booking my ticket and place in the police cells
The fact that they need help does not give them the right to parade their illness across Yerushalayim Ir Hakoidesh. What is next? A murderers’ parade? Many murderers also need help.
On the other hand, violent demonstrations are not of much use. Remember what happened to the last 2 parades – Hashem took care of the whole situation for us.
HERE WE GO AGAIN
I never said they had a right to have a parade. but to be honest, I wonder if ignoring them wouldn’t be better. I think the whole thing would be a small blip on the screen.
But the frum velt screams gevald (and I realize there are some very good reasons to do so) and gives them soooooo much free PR – I am sure they are counting on us! why pay for ads when they have the frum?
anyway….I think there are some major issues that get missed with all the screaming & yelling:
what can I personally do to be a counterweight to them? Learn more! do more chesed! not throw things at jewish cops.
also…and I wrote it earlier….there are jewish groups – with frum Rabbinic backing that provide support & therapy for people who do NOT want to be part of all of that shtus. what is the oilem doing to make sure our young people realize that there is HELP out there if chas v’shalom they need it
the folks running the parade are a small number of prideful arrogant political types. there is not much to be done there. but when we bash them, many who actually see them as “leaders” get the impression that WE are wrong, that WE are like cavemen, closed minded etc.
they have NO idea how true the Torah is, or that this lifestyle really is a DEATHstyle. and us yelling doesn’t seem to be helping much, does it?
so….I suggest stating firmly, clearly in black & white: we oppose the parade, we oppose the lifestyle because the Torah does. we think it is an emotional problem & people with emotional problems don’t get parades….they get help!! and we suggest people turn to x, Y & z for help.
I think we will have a greater impact. and SINCE we really believe the Torah is true & this lifestyle IS simply an ERROR – then it means we believe in Tshuva & that people can change – so let’s give them the info to do so!!
“I wonder if ignoring them wouldn’t be better. I think the whole thing would be a small blip on the screen.”
Why don’t you stop “wondering” since you are wondering KINEGED THE TORAH HAKDOSHA.
Im Timtza Lomar – why don’t you read what I wrote. I honestly do not think I said anything that is “KINEGED THE TORAH HAKDOSHA.” as you put it. If you can prove it to me….then I will, bli neder, retract whatever I said was wrong.
They shoud be executed, al pi din.
“They shoud be executed, al pi din.”
Where did you pick up this narishkeit? Even in the time of Sanhedrin, you would need eidim v’hasraa on the maaseh, k’makchol b’shfoferes. No one is executed for marching.
They should be executed for doing the maaseh. Obviously it would need to be proven in Bais Din with acceptable evidence (al pi din.)
What stupid ranting!! No wonder people think chareidim are out of touch. If we had the bais hamikdash, sanhedrin, etc. we wouldn’t have so many people off the “d” and out-to-lunch! You can’t judge people in a secular society by the terms of a Torah society. Now I understand why Hashem took the reins out of our hands when He exiled us: our chareidi cossacks would be running around distributing malkos and maybe even wiretapping suspects to establish guilt!
Stand up to say the parade is a toevah al pi Torah and a chillul Hashem — form a human barrier to prevent it from passing, maybe. But stop the idiotic remarks which only make us look like dumb fundamentalists.
kishke you are going with the opinion of R’ Akiva in makos 7a. the chachomim say misheyiru kiminoafim and that is the psak of Rambam
The correct response is indeed a massive Tehillim gathering for the day and place where the parade is planned. The cops will be powerless to stop it.
ezrasnashim makes a point. its time to compromise halacha so we don’t come across as fundamentalists–even if the Torah takes a fundamental approach! we should all hide under a tree whenever a torah law sounds too fundamental–like many situations where someone is chayiv misah midaraasah. we live in a new modern contemporary society, and we must adopt as such. thank you ezrasnashim for helping me understand this point.
the Gedolim will guide us and tell us how to act and how to respond to these ugly people.
I doubt that they will advocate killing them – or even violence.
If a counter-demonstration is called for, it has to be organized properly and the counter-demonstrators need to kept in-line. The press LOVES nothing more than to show the Religious community in a bad light – yelling and screaming – shaking their fist – spitting – throwing rocks etc… while showing the anti-Torah as peace loving.
My idea of a proper counter-demonstartion would be to line the streets, face away from these ugly people, and recite Tehillim. If the press asks why we are opposed, there should be talking points: “Violation of a Torah precept” or “if pork and shell fish lovers (pick your aveirah) wanted to march – also a violation of a Torah precept, we would protest”…
…But, being as I don’t fit into the category of my first sentence above… I reserve the right to change my mind when we see what the Torah giants of our day have to say.
Joe Schmo: They are the “worst form of sub-human crud who must be banished from society”? What about the Nazis? Arabs? Those who want to destroy us?
I say people should be strong in themselves and their Torah and thats all that you can do–you can not control what others do or thing–just do whats best for you and for yourconnection to Hashem.
how about a psak from maran r’ eliyashev !!!!!!!!!! y is evry one makeing up there oun hallaches . besides I don’t think that the police r going to let the hole story replay itself.
Joseph
‘They should be executed for the maaseh’
During the Sanhedrin even a Murderer being put to death was a longshot!
If all the members of the Sanhedrin would decide he was guilty, he would go free! The guidlines as far as Eidim and HASROAH were very tight. I think it was R AKIVA who once said that if HE were on the Sanhedrin NO ONE would be put to death and in fact I think there was only 1 person who WAS executed.
Williamsbogen
your sarcasm is a bit off base! Someone once said , ‘its agood thing we are judged on YK by Hashem and not by people, or else we would all be goners!
Protes the MARCH AND S
The Tehillim gathering strikes me as one sort of thing that would leave the press & public with an open mouth “gee, now what?”. there was a HUGE protest (no violence) against the supreme court years back & the media still refers to it.
no need to talk about killing & all this stuff – especially since we all know it ain’t gonna happen
Williams, I hope you are being sarcastic. Either that or you are a spy for the Deformed or the (artificial) Preservatives 🙂 🙂 🙂 (it IS still Adar!)
nameless, that is correct. I said they should be executed once all the halachic standards were satisfied (including 2 eidim, warning, etc.) and a 2/3 majority (but as you said non-unanimous) of Bais Din accepted the charges and convicted them of sodomy.
Itzik, I was being sarcastic as nameless understood.
nameless, this type of crime (assuming all of the Bais Din’s Torah standards of evidence were met), are judged by men (Bais Din), not only by Bais Din Shel Maaleh.
Joseph
I know what you meant. The point I wanted to make is that EXECUTION by Sanhedrin was extremely rare due to the fact that the hasroah has to be given within a specific time limit before the Aveiro is done . If the timing is not exact then the warning is not acceptable. Am I right?
nameless, you are correct. My point is again, if ALL requirements are met.
williamsbogen, you (and Joseph) clearly didn’t learn how to read or think in your years of ameilus beTorah — just to pass out-of-whack judgments condemning people who have the brains to make distinctions between Torah yidden and the rest of the olam. By your warped reasoning, every Jew who isn’t keeping Shabbos kehilchasa in our times would be chayav misa, and we’d all be mechuyav to FORCE all Jews to keep Torah al pi halacha or be punished!! STUPID! STUPID! You think speaking Chinese to Frenchmen is the answer?!!
We are in golus because we OURSELVES, the chareidim, don’t DESERVE to have shlita over klal Yisroel! We need to inspire them, teach them what’s appropriate! Say No when they go too far, and stick to it. The rest is up to Hashem. And when the Ribbono shel olam returns us to har habayis, IY”H, bekarov, by definition yidden won’t be so depraved as to WANT such parades. Until then, we need to be great ourselves, individually, so that we can MERIT the final geulah.
“kishke you are going with the opinion of R’ Akiva in makos 7a. the chachomim say misheyiru kiminoafim and that is the psak of Rambam”
Fine. Either way, it’s not for marching.
On 2nd though, it’s quite possible that even with eidim and hasraah they would not be mechuyav misah even in the time of Sanhedrin, b/c as tinokos shenishbu they are regarded as anusim.
There is no misas bais din in our days.Even during the Sanhedrin’s times these people would be convivcted based on the AVEIRO INVOLVING THE ACT, NOT THE ORIENTATION ITSELF .
In any case, no one would be put to death for parading!
kishke please write sources sanhedrin would never pasken from boich sevaros. Af hen marbin shofchei damim biyisroel
TO THE ISRAELY GOVERNMENT GO AHEAD AND YOU WILL HAVE MORE PROBLEMS THEN YOU CAN THINK
nameless, it isn’t an ”orientation” as the sodomites would like you to believe.
Joseph
either way, there is NO conviction unless there is proof of improper conduct. No one will be punished for calling himelf a ‘ganiv’ unless he is acutally SEEN commiting the crime
nameless, that point is true and it has been clarified several times in this discussion already (see above.)