On Sunday, the Mekubal Rav Yackov Batzri held a special Yom Tefillah for boys in a Yerushalayim Cheder to Daven for the death of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Rabbi Batzri said the Yom Tefillah was linked to the upcoming Yom Tov of Purim, when the Yidden overcame Haman, through Tefillah and Taanis. (More pics HERE)
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35 Responses
Am I the only one bothered by a gathering of children to daven for someone to die?
Mordechai haTzadik took the children and learned Torah with them – that started the downfall of the wicked Haman
no, I am too.
berelshain: No, you’re not. The analogy to Purim fails: Mordechai had the little children learn and daven, not for Haman’s death, but for the Yidden to do teshuvah.
Ahmadi-nejad is merely Hashem’s shaliach, and “harbei sheluchim laMakom.”
Berel, do you want him to live and G-d forbid carry out his wish to eliminate the state of Israel?
as far as i know the Yidden in the time of Esther fasted for the sake of Tshuvah. i dont know exactly how they davened, but i would think they davened for a Yeshuah. I doubt very much if they davened to give HaKodeshBarchu explicit instructions on how they would like him to perform the Yeshuah.
that said, i dont know Rav Batzri, and i dont know how accurately the report describes what actually occurred. i certainly make no judgment about his actions, as i doubt very much if the whole story is being told here.
feivel
This is so wrong on so many levels! Who davens for the death of someone else? Isn’t this exactly what the Palestinians and Arabs do to us–gather their young children to engrain hatred into their minds?!
There is obviously a mistake in reporting here. It does not sound right. They probably davened for a yeshuah from that Rosha. LA you are right, that is what THEY do. It is not our way.
GOOD FOR RABBI BATZRI!
Headlines sell papers!
More exciting to daven for the death of a resha, than to do teshuva. Come on kids want quick results, we live in an instant generation.
Who says that the death of Haman-denijad will improve the situation? Hashem can find plenty of ways for Revach Vehatzalah, some of which may not involve the public face of the Iranian threat going to the big pilgrimage in the sky.
I’m skeptical about this story, but if it did happen, I think that it’s bad Chinuch. And talk about a sad childhood for these kids.
Well lets not talk bad against HaRav Batzri Shlita & loshon hora because he is a very big gadol. If he did it then obviously it was the right thing to do but the question is DID he do it?
WAY TO GO, RABBI…
WE SHOULD DO ANOTHER ONE WITH ALL THE CHILDREN OF THE WORLD LINKED TOGEATHER ON PURIM…
Don’t believe how things are wriiten in the news. They want it to sound sensational, but, it’s not necessarily true.
For all those who ask who davens for the death of someone else… I hope you do! After all we say in shmona esreh v’chol ovei amcha mherah yikaresu…. se’aker useshaber…. Ever heard the words shfoch chamascha el ha’goyim? How about lei tirdifei b’saerecha hashen u’bsuvchascha tivhalem…. The list goes on and on and on, maybe you should know what you are saying when you daven.
who is rav yaakov batzri? i have heard of the gadol rav Dovid Barzri…
yihoishufut kranz — You don’t add anything you your point by implying that no one who has posted here understands Hebrew. At the very least, please brush up your insulting skills.
I that even a rare Hebrew-Understander such as yourself would have to admit that there is an important difference between asking Hashem to exact vengeance in a general, abstract way, and praying for the death a specific individual. This difference is especially pronounced in the context of the sensitivities of children.
It’s not too hard to explain to your child that two sides are fighting a war and we want the good guys to defeat the bad guys. It’s far more difficult to explain to them that this individual soldier is shooting the other one in the head and killing him.
The specific hits home more than the general. Your example would be valid if we had a special Mi Sheberach (Mi Shekillel?) in which we listed evil people and asked Hashem to kill them.
any body that thinks that you are not supposed to daven that a rasha who is not jewish should die is unbelielvable. i didnt know that any body on this site has das torah maybe you should get a few children together and start davening for yourself
KORNDOG — I think that we should be Davening for Hashem to generally bring about a Yeshua in the Iran situation. We don’t need to tell Him how to do His job, and who He needs to kill to do it.
KRANZ — There is a difference between generally praying for the downfall of Reshaim and specifically praying for someone’s death. Also, your (attempted) insult as to the board’s Hebrew skills does not add to your point, and, in fat, detracts from your credibility.
Korndog and Yehoishufut
Well said! I think if these rishoim are desendants of Amelek, its ESPECIALLY ok to will their death.
What do the words ‘tIMCHE ES ZECHER AMALEK’ imply?
LA reader
is your post a pre pUrim joke???
I do not know what is right here, but thank you everyone for amusing me with you LOL comments!
CKY
your criticism of Korndog and Kranz is debateable(although I think both their posts were very impressive)
HOWEVER you’ll have to agree that ‘MEKUBAL’ Rabbi Batzri still has more knowledge of whether or not this is acceptable than you do…….
NAMELESS — Of course Rabbi Batzri is more knowledgeable than I am, although this may not be saying much.
If I name a Gadol who is greater than Rabbi Batzri who does NOT support enlisting children to pray for the death of specific individuals, do I win this round of “Dueling Gadols?”
There are great Rabbis who (gasp!) disagree on key issues. This has been going on for some time in our religion, but does not, in my opinion, preclude people from discussing current events. Of course, if you know more than me and disagree with me, I may be wrong…
CKY
I admire the pride in your humility but what I meant to say was that if Rav Batzri decided to hold this special tefillah, then obviously its not worthy of the harsh criticism that I see on this board.
Has it been rejected by other Gedolim?
As far as I know, no other Gadol has called for people, especially children, to pray for the death of Haman-Denijad. (In fact, I followed up on this story, and it appears doubtful that even Rabbi Batzri did so.).
Charedim Kol Yisroel Says how do you daven everyday why dont you just let has-hem run everything????? what you are saying is clearly false how do you you say three times a day in vlamnalshinim that Has=hem should destroy the wicked read what your saying. stop haveing such a liberal view point. find what das Torah says and then speak and then we will enjoy the name Charedim Kol Yisroel until then
KORNDOG — Do you name specific Malshinim in Shemonah Esreh? Perhpas I have an older Siddur.
My point, made several times, is that there is a difference between Davening for a GENERAL Yeshua and telling Hashem who he SPECIFICALLY needs to kill to accomplish this. Hashem can make it plenty worse with Haman-Denijad dead, and plenty better with him alive.
I will ignore the rambling insult portion of your post, as it is not particularly witty. Please improve the insult quality.
korndog – I agree that we we should keep the wicked in mind while we doven vlamnalshinim – let them all perish (and not be replaced).
however, to remove children from learning to have a special prayer session???
Shmuel said to Shaul – what is the sound of the sheep that I hear (he kept the spoils of amalek – forbidden). In the days of Mordechai, Hashem said this Posuk when Mordechai took all the children and continued learning with them – this occured while the adults were busy worrying about the future. (paraphrased from the gift of Yom Tov by Rabbi Yisroel Miller of Pittsburgh).
The point is: their is a time to doven and a time to learn. teach the children to doven appropriately (kavanos to have) when it is time to doven, and learn properly when it is time to learn. It was the learning that “soothed” HaShem in the time of Mordechai and Esther.
Charedim Kol Yisroel first off i made no insults and second i will now you are just a big LIBERAL and thats simple. america has corupted your way of thinking and has made you a big lib. third why dodnt you go and sit and learn for a while and aquire das torah and not just your opinions which sound like there is no das torah in them at all fourth of coarse you have to daven for a yeshuah what does that have to do with asking Has-hem for personal needs . FIFTH STOP BEING A BIG LIBERAL.
CKY
my question wasnt if there was asituation prior to this where a Rav called for the death of the Iranian leader.
I asked whether his motion to call a Yom Tefillah in general was crticized by other Torah leaders….
‘…….it appears doubtful if Rav Batzri did so.’
Again, commenting on this board is based on the information we read here without assuming its not true.
KORNDOG — Your logic does not hold up. I made a point about praying for the death of specific individuals, and you reply by calling me a liberal three times (a Chazakah, I guess) and telling me to sit and learn. When you would like to discuss the actual issue, I’ll be there.
Also, I live in Canada 🙂
NAMELESS — Your logic is (a little) shaky. The fact that Torah leaders don’t decry something doesn’t mean they necessarily approve. Otherwise, Gedolim would have to be opining on dozens of issues an hour just to keep up. As they say, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Still, I hear what you’re saying, although my thoughts are that no one spoke up because it seems doubtful that this actually happened. The comments of a principal of the school (not the Mekubal) look like they were taken out of context.
Ok well then limagine th following scenerio;
Germany 1939. A Rav calls a Yom Tefillah for the death of Hitler y”s.
Not knowing what you know now, had that occured and the tefillos would have been answered, there would have been a catastrophe avoided!
Ofcourse you are still free to say ‘Hashem could have made it PLENTY WORST WITH HITLER DEAD AND PLENTY BETTER WITH HIM ALIVE’!!!!!!!
I call that shakey logic!
Besides, how do you explain the idea of ‘tzaddik goizer vhakodosh Boruch HU MIKAYEM’ ….It has happend that tzaddikim willed the pain and suffering of rishoim…case in point?? The delegation of Rabonim who cursed the Kennedey family…..for the antisemitism of the grandfather Joe Kennedy…..seemd to work!
there…explain that one!
NAMELESS — I think we have differing conceptions of how Hashem runs the world and to what degree we are capable of comprehending His plan.
Sometimes a Tzadik is Gozer and Hashem is Mekayem, and sometimes He is not. I don’t pretend to know why.
I don’t know how you can say that a dead Hitler Yemach Shemo would mean an averted Holocaust. Maybe, maybe not. Again, I’m not arrogant enough to think I have the answer. I don’t see how that is shaky logic.
who is rav yaakov batzri???? i have heard of the gadol and Mekubal rav Dovid Barzri…