Just as the dust settled between the Chareidi community and El Al, the winds of war might be whipped up again with El Al having flown again on Shabbos. According to Israeli Media outlets a plane run by El Al on a flight from Canada on Friday that was forced to land in London for technical reasons took off again on its way to Eretz Yisroel just minutes before Shabbos.
However, in order to live up to the letter, if not the spirit, of the company’s recent promise not to fly planes on Shabbos, the flight was rescheduled to fly under the Sundor name – event though the plane was the same, as were the passengers. Frum passengers who refused to fly on Shabbos were put up in a London hotel and arrived in Eretz Yisroel on Motzei Shabbos.El Al has been operating Sundor since the 1970s, and the company has operated flights on Shabbos since its inception. The Sundor flight arrived in Israel about 10 PM Friday night.
An El Al statement said that the changeover was legitimate, since the original El Al flight was canceled and the passengers re-ticketed for the Sundor flight.
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36 Responses
This is like the family that keeps THREE sets of dishes: Milk, Meat and Treif.
El Al’s story essentially is that it switched over to its Treif dishes, while keeping the other two sets kosher.
did anyone think that el al will never b mecalel shabes again ? I hope the gedolem from america & e”y put out a letter that you’r not alloud 2 fly on el al.
BIG DEAL
They are a public company that is in transportation field they did what they had to do in order to fulfill there obligation. Do you really think we really going to leave their clients stranded in London over a weekend?
what in world r u talking about?
and why do u say do you really think”we”are going to leave …..? is this el al bloging?
i mamish dont chap the pshat in el al what is their hava amina i think the rabbonim should come out with a kol koreh against them again!!!
This neat ‘trick’ should work everytime ElAl wishes to be mechalel Shabbos kodesh. Obviously the ”agreement” was all a branding issue. You merely ‘reticket’ everyone with the mechallel Shabbos brand.
Why do you say “sort of” Mechalel Shabbos? Sounds like blatant Chilul Shabbos to me.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. ElAl did this now because they know that all the Bachurim are planing on using their open ticket to come home for Pesach. (there aren’t too many other options for those who already reserved with ElAl, & they know the Bachurim won’t stay in Eretz Yisrael)
so what was the point of having that Rabbi to ask a shaila if it became necessary? They have an in-house solution already: continue to fly on Shabbos Kodesh under a different ‘banner.’
i can’t belive this.
Newsflash everyone- El-Al was, is, and alway be michalal Shabbos. Sun-D’or has been flying for years and nobody kvetched. Why the sudden complaints?
“ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. ElAl did this now because they know that all the Bachurim are planing on using their open ticket to come home for Pesach. (there aren’t too many other options for those who already reserved with ElAl, & they know the Bachurim won’t stay in Eretz Yisrael)”
Yeah that’s definitely what they were thinking! They’ve got a plane stuck on the ground in London right before Shabbos, and they weren’t going to takeoff until someone shouted, “Hey, the z’man is almost over! We can get away with it!
Gimme a break.
Besides, if this whole mechalal Shabbos thing is so important, and it really is a sakanah to fly El-Al, then I’m sure all the bochurim would be glad to stay in EY for Pesach and not take the risk flying El Al home back to the U.S.
destro, take the 613 out of your name. You have no idea what you are talking about. i.e. Howard Jonas does not own a majority of IDT shares, nor does IDT sell its business to a goy on Shabbos Kodesh.
The decision about shmiras shabbos pertaining to ELAL was since it is the govt airline and represents the Jewish country Israel, SUNDOR is not a govt airline and does not represent ISRAEL. Rav Amar is the middleman posak, let him deal with the question is this considered chilul shabbos or not?
Ok guys,
Instead of pontificating lets see what the gedoley haposkim tell us to do and follow we shall!!!!!!!!!
Well B’H after we canceled our El Al tickets when this whole balagan happened to an other airline we B’H didn’t change it back we thank Ha-shem for that.
this ”changing name” thing has bin going on for years!!! (at least 3)
‘….took off again on its way to EY just minutes before Shabbos”
And the flight arrives at Ben Gurion well well into Shabbos, where the Airport is in full operation with JewISH workers unloading luggages, dealing with passenger immigration and customs. I assume there are announcements made on the loudspeaker, desecrating Shabbos right and left.
Why is there no one on this forum, concerned With that point?
Are these flights an issue of Chillul Shabbos or and issue of Chillul Hashem?
i dont fly elal for that reason
i rather contenental and etc.
why is everyone getting all bent out of shape. elal did what they had to without breaking any of their agreement. after all, sundor has benn flying on shabbos for years. so why is it any different than israir flying on shabbos. so lets all stop trying to be so “geshmak” and make believe we know what their responsibility is.
“sayitlikeitis Says:
February 25th, 2007 at 2:16 am
The decision about shmiras shabbos pertaining to ELAL was since it is the govt airline and represents the Jewish country Israel, SUNDOR is not a govt airline and does not represent ISRAEL. Rav Amar is the middleman posak, let him deal with the question is this considered chilul shabbos or not?”
for the past 2 years, El Al is a private compnay – not government owned.
im in eretz yisrael now, and ill tell u what the guys are saying. we will do what the gedolim say but the gedolim know our parents wont let us stay here 4 pesach even if it costs them an xtra 1000 dollars. im sure elal knows this. we also dont think this decision was made on the ground in england. it was probably what the lawyer told them when they signed, that legally they can do this and not lose in court. soooo “cwy”….are you gonna host me here in israel for pesach? both sedarim? do u have any idea how hard it is 2 find meals when everyone is by their in-laws?
Joseph : howard Jonas owns 51% of IDT
destro613 norman- yes you are correct it is not a govt airline, it just gives that “assumption” since the govt officials use it and it displays the flag.
ELAL could not care less about the beinhazamanim flyers, the JPost states that 200,000 passengers leave Israel for Pesach, while almost the same amount come to Israel for Pesach. What percentage do you think, are torah students flying to and fro?
sayitlikeitis; it’s not a matter of percentage or “yeshiva bachurim” it’s that they know that the no refund policy is in effect, so yether the frum are coming or going, they’re stuck. ernstabachur is right parents & bachurim will do anything to b with the family for Pesach.
There’s no such thing as “sort of” mechalel Shabbos. El Al was always mechalel Shabbos and how anyone believes otherwise is beyond me. I never flew El Al for this reason. I’d rather fly on a non Jewish air line which doesn’t have any prohibitions about flying on Shabbos. If El Al wants Chareidim to fly on its airline, then they have to be completely Shomer Shabbos without any Ands Ifs or Buts. But, that will never happen because then the non frum, non Jewish passengers will have what to complain about and they’re more important to EL AL than the frum clients.
i hope i don’t have to stay in seminary for pesach. it’s all in hashem’s hands so if i have to stay gam zu l’tova.
Who cares what ElAl does–they are a private company. If you don’t like it, don’t fly them!
What I am going crazy about is that these posts about ElAl and the posts about Chovevei Torah and others get so many heated and angry responses and posts but the one about a SHUL being RANSACKED and the lives of people living in small communities, not like Lakewood or Brooklyn, get NO REPSONSE!
If you ask me, thats a huge chillul Hashem. I’m sure that many will not agree but just wanted to share that.
Dont think it didnt cost them $$ for changing the rerouting to Sundor. There is a lot involved in that, be it with the Avaition agencies or even internally.
Yes, I still think it stinks. Lets just call it like it is and cut the semantics.
I don’t know what everyone is surprised about. I knew YEARS ago that ElAl was mechalel shabbos. I once flew ElAl and was served a nice kosher meal which I washed for. After the meal they gave me a bencher. I opened it and saw that it had “Ritzay” in it. Now what would they need Ritzay in their benchers for if they don’t fly on Shabbos!!!
Mishenichnas adar marbin b’simcha!!!
Enjoy!!!
It is the best thing for us that we don’t fly El Al. The movies they play are among the worst of other airlines. Why can’t they show nature movies? I’m not saying that we should watch any movies. Also the “pritzus” is among the worst. I’ve been a “mashgiach kashrush” and have flown around the world with many airlines.
I wish you never worss if you have to stay in seminary for Pesach you will have an amazing Pesach I know girls are doing that & have done that. I know that in the past the girls that stayed had a better time then the girls that went home. It’s only another 6 weeks to come home after that what a waste of money.
Has anyone heard the latest El Al food scandal? Stewards/esses were seen boarding a flight carrying Burger King bags containing treife food!!
if anyone needs a place for Pesach in E”Y, let us know
i mamash cant believe this elal is the most geshmak airlines, how could they do this to yeshiva bochurim?
there is no hava minah you chap what im saying?
Dear Rabbi Kaufman,
Lemme tell ya, the National Geographic channel aint too much better. What you see on that channel is also “natural” besides that, the chayos dont make a brocha before eating and they are also eating N’vayla!
kanoi, I need a place for Pesach. Whats your number?