is this for Miami Beach only or the entire city of Miami?
was this a recent publication or perhaps something old that resurfaced?
The decree doesn’t specify what an elderly couple should do if they own an apartment facing the beach. Must they sell it?
why are there no litvisha signatures on this ????
This leaves me in a quandary…i live in miami beach and my apt. faces the beach…is this a new psak? does rav Elyashiv and rav Kanievsky endorse this kol koreh? please help
About time
I don’t understand why people want to know if it’s new/old or which Gedolim signed. These are basics that unfortunately have to be made into a Kol Koreh.
Whats the difference if their are no litvishe signatures. That is really a narishkeit to worry about
The date is on the document.
I want to know because Miami Beach has been around for some time now. It is a major stop on the parlor meeting highway and has been home for some major personalities during their convalescence from serious illness.
Are we warned not to walk the streets of NY in the summer or to avoid the boardwalks of Coney Island when the weather turns warmer? These are basics for the observant Jew and do not need a Kol Koreah.
I question what new pieces of information prompted this letter and why it is limited to the Chassidesha world.
Last I heard the yeshiva olam has not received any special shots immunizing them against this danger
Its to blurry for me to read. Is there anyway someone could rewrite what it says?
gezintumenucho, Are you telling me that you only care if r’ chaim and r’ eliyashiv support this? the vishnitze rebba alone is not good enough. All the rabbonim that signed this kol korei are massive people and talmidie chachomim.
Obviously R Matisyahu Solomon and R malkiel Kotler don’t approve of this kol korah because they are giving a shiur there right now for the yarchei kallah which is now taking place in the miami kollel.
joenj…if you lived in miami beach you’d want to know which gedolim signed it!!! dont be a tzdik on yenem’s cheshbon!!
Can you translate?
Anyone one know what age is considered old? (I guess if you have to ask then youre not old enough..). I might have to change to GrumpyAlmostOldMan.
The old joke was that the Hisachdus “issur” on going to Miami was dated “po Miami Beach”
For the benefit of all, Kol Korehs should be printed in English also. Didn’t comprehend the wording that states “a man without a beard should not travel to Miami Beach”….
ITS A FRAUD since the Skulener Rebbi’s handwriting is no where close to the way its signed here compared to a recent document since he is very not well
Dear 26 estates this is dated Teves of this year now one thing for sure is that this is a fraud
I’m not sure if everyone figured this out – but NORTH MIAMI BEACH IS OK – it says it in the Kol Koreh itself – so don’t shoot out at R’ Matisyahu Shlit”a.
Come and visit in Boyton, Delray and Deerfield, the hottest spots for real estate for seniors. Appropriate davening places, stores to buy glatt kosher, shiurim and opportunities for chesed abound.
Please translate into English. What happens to all those owners in Tower 41?? (It’s far from the beach?)
Some of the signatories used to go miami themselves!!!
And tommorw morning he’s giving a shuir in Miami Beach not North Miami Beach
FREE TRANSLATION OF THE HIGHLIGHTS (Comments welcome):
The news that we have heard — namely that certain Charedi individuals have permitted themselves to travel to Miami Beach (a place of much immorality and abomination) during the winter months — is not good. Recently, much of the seaside locales to which the Charedim travel have also become filled with immorality and abomination. (Until recently, swimming was prohibited at certain beaches). It is a great Chilul Hashem that Jews in Charedi garb travel to a place like this.
[…]
RULES:
1) It is prohibited for one who is not old to travel to Miami Beach, even to visit ones parents. This does not accomplish Kibud Av Va’Em as it is a Mitzvah Ha’Bah B’Aveirah
2) In the event that ones parents are ill and live in Miami Beach and require urgent assistance, a woman should visit them, and not a man (assuming the assistance can be rendered by a woman). Otherwise, a man may go, but shall not visit tourist locations such as bird exhibits and aquariums. He should not travel on immorality-laden streets unless absolutely necessary.
3) No one (including the elderly) may live in a dwelling whose windows have a view of the beach.
THIS TRANSLATION IS NOT COMPLETE, BUT IT HITS THE HIGH NOTES, IN MY OPINION.
what exactly is a yirei shomayim buying an apartment facing the beach for?
Yeshivah Bachur
If you move your mouse around to the lower left hand corner of the kol koreh, a button should appear that will let you make it bigger.
I suspect that we have here a case of the “everyone’s doing it so it must be ok” heter
It seems clear to me that the main problem of pritzus is being near the beach or in tourist spots. As I recall, North Miami Beach is niether. Isn’t it purely residential? Frankly I dont’ understand the “old man – young man” difference. I never saw that one in halachah.
I don’t know how much you can be medayek in the loshon of this kol koreh, but regarding North Miami Beach I see a stirah between the “raisha” and the “sayfah”.
At the top it talks about Collins Ave, the hotel strip, and near the beach. But near the end, it says something to the effect, “If you are old and must go, then go to North Miami Beach and similar places far from the beach”.
Stirah.
if you save to your computer and view it as a jpeg it will be clear.
Also the signatures can be from a stamp. Just because the Skelener Rebbe didnt sign it personally means nothing.
FMLOGIC, indeed we are warned against walking down coney island when the weather gets warmer and we do something about it. Its called the mountains. And whats the difference between yeshiva world and chasidishe world? We are all jews. I happen to be a yeshiva yungaleit but a chassidishe rebbas signature is good enough for me
joenj34 – The Miami Kollel is not it North Miami Beach, it is actually 2 blocks away from 41st Street which is prominently mentioned in the Kol Koreh.
sayitlikeitis – It is Zakein, not Zakan, old not beard! I hope you were kidding.
esg78:
There are 2 versions of this Kol Koeh. I saw one without the inclusion of North Miami Beach. That would answer the stirah.
2 things to note. 1. Pretzus away from the Beach is no more or less than what one sees anywhere else. No chidush in asuring the beach. Always wondered why so many think it’s muter to walk on the boardwalk. 2. During the winter countless Rosh Yeshivos are in Miami. As pointed out above the Miami Beach Kollel is a block off of 41st street. R’ Shushtal, R’ Matisyahu Solomon R malkiel are all in town right now. R’ Orlofsky gave shiur yesterday, R’ Reisman last week, the Bostoner Rebbe last month, the Satmar Rebbe last year…
gemorakop
I wanted to see if anyone was reading it.. & yup was kidding.
REMINDER: Comments which question Rabbonim (be it Litvish, Chassidish, Sephardic etc etc) will not be published.
Please think before commenting.
“the fact that your feeble mind can’t comprehend genius and the truth doesn’t mean that you should censor it.”
I will not debate if your right or wrong.
There are rules on this website, & Lashon Horah will not be allowed. PERIOD.
Should you need to publicly make your statement, I would suggest that on Shabos morning in your Shul, you should Klap on the Bima and speak your mind.
Don’t do it on Yeshivaworld with a phony screen-name.
Hope you got the point.
Since everyone is so sincere here, I am sure you will sell your apartment right away. As an inducement I am offering all cash for any apartment facing the water(provided I can flip it). Terms are 7 day escrow with no contingencies. Please respond ASAP.
Yeshiva world editor
Thanks for censoring all the news to keep out Lashon Hora. Keep up the great work!!
I also have my doubts as to the authenticity of this document based on the signature of the Skulener shlit”a. When was it supposedly signed? Where is it being circulated? Remember that Purim is on the way, and there are a handful or more of malicious pranksters in every community.
“who are the signatures from”
Any normal person (who obviously couldn’t read hebrew- nebech lo’l) would write who signed this. It’s clearly mashma that you know these “Gedolim” didn’t sign this and you just want to know who manufactured/forged their signature- hence “who are the signatures from”.
The Chofetz Chaim was once in a hospital. He asked his son to get him a male nurse. His son said, “Tatte, but you’re a old man.”
The Chofetz Chaim replied ” I may be old, but I AM NOT DEAD”
What’s the difference if you are old or not, if it’s assur, then its assur, if its not, then its not.
Mekablim es ha-emes mi-mi sh’omra. We accept the truth from whoever tells it to us. Obviously a yorei Shamayim has to be careful to avoid exposing himself to pritzus wherever he might encounter it — the fact that this appeal focuses on Miami Beach (when there are so many other places as well) is most likely because, as the statement itself says, so many people seem to be taking it so lightly. I happen to be visiting North Miami Beach at the moment and find it a fine community full of precious neshomos and ovdei Hashem.
to jdspero: to answer question number 3 – yes, but you have to sign a statement that you do not posess binoculars or a telescope.
jdspero,
You wrote, “Why, in this day and age are there still so-called frum people that need everything translated from Hebrew for them? We are raising a dor of very Frum, but very ignorant people. I got news for you, Moshiach will not speak English or Yiddish, so you better start sprucing up on you Lashan HaKodesh now.”
Well, jd, being involved in kiruv on a day-to-day basis, I know an awful lot of frum people who have not received the opportunity to learn fluency in Lashon HaKodesh. I guess we can now call them “so-called frum” people. I don’t have definitive answers to exactly what kind “of dor we’re raising”, but I do get a sense of the world YOU live in- extremely narrow and myopic.
Please think next time.
Perhaps the Editor can clarify the source of this document so as to settle the speculation that it is not authentic. Did it come from a reputable organization? Was it simply found online?
The intent of the Kol Koreh is to be admired whether one agrees with the exact wording or the exclusions or not.
I just wonder if something that is so short lived as a proclamation will have the desired effect.
My personal feeling is that it would be far more effective for every Rav whether it be a large Bais Medrash or a small shteibel to speak to his Olam about the issue of tznius. This can include Miami Beach , Orlando ,LA , NY and bring home the point in a way that will impact a larger segment of our population. The Catskills are not immune to this as well and many frum lives have suffered massive spiritual contamination in the mountains. This should be pounded into our heads with as much or even more vigor then the evils of the internet have been. Young and old, men and women, our indifference to these problems is epidemic. It is far easier to see someone else’s faults or control someone else’s Yetzer Hora then it is our own…. This Kol Koreh is a good beginning but it must not end here.
Shtusim, what an appropriate name. When and where exactly was the Chofetz Chaim ever in a hospital. A similar story is tolld about the Chofetz Chaim, but he did not say “I may be old, but I am not dead.” Since I am not 100% sure of the Chofetz Chaim’s exact loshon or where the story happened, I will not relate it here.
there is a story about R’Lopian z’tl when a young man asked about attending a wedding. he figured the young man was asking b/c there may be immodest women there. the young man replied that there may be, but he trained himself not to notice or effect him. R’Lopian replied that he is an old man and he has very poor vision and it still bothers him.
Not sure of the source of the story – I heard it from the previous Rav of my Shul.
jdspero – First of all if you think that Mashiach won’t speak Yiddish, I think you may be in for a big surprise. Also, why should the Gedolim use the Ivrit word for lifeguard instead of the English one? Is it more “holy” in Ivrit, i don’t think there is a Lashon HaKodesh or Yiddish word for lifeguard.
In regards to your point about there being no difference between men and women, we are not talking about not dressing BeTznius (they are not addressing that crowd), they are talking about watching what you see, and in that regard that definitely applies to men, not very much so to women.
with all these comments you would think the neturi katta put this out!!!!!!
JDSPERO First of all lishetascha that it has to be fake b/c if it was real they would have written “matzil” and since they didnt it cant be real, and mimeilah fake, so the person who wrote it knew everysingle word except for lifeguard? If it was fake they would want u to believe its real and would have MADE SURE to write “MATZIL”. Chassidishe Rabbonim write in that way. They write english words instead of hebrew for words they dont feel are zoche, (or tznius) to be written in hebrew. AND BESIDES REBBAS SPEAK YIDDISH NOT HEBREW. It could be that this is fake, but not because of that. Everyone else out there, If R” Chaim or R’ Eliyashvs’ signature would be on here we would assume that it was real until proven fake. Why are we doing the opposite just b/c they are chassidishe rebbas?
Derech Agav, I live in Monsey and daven in Vishnitz everyday. I have not seen the kol korei posted anywhere. That is not a rayah to anything just stating the facts
CKY
SOME hakoras hatov. Thank you for the transalation.
JDSPERO
you have a point with regard to the word ‘lifeguard’.
STAMAYID
The question is not whether ONLY chassider Rabonim supporting this Koreh is enough, but whether or not some Yehivisher people might take this as aprohibition for ONLY chassidim. Thats is why I have my doubts as far as the authenticity of this Kol koreh.Tzinus is an issue for Rabonim whether Litvish or Chassdish!
For those who confuse Ivrit with Loshon Hakodesh you may want to look at the Chizkuni when Yosef Hatzadik says ” Ki pe hamidaber”
You may also want to understand why Paroh understand every language with the exception of Loshon Hakodesh while every Arab in EY speaks Ivrit
It’s really interesting and amusing to read everyone’s comments. Has anyone out there seen an actual copy of this anywhere? Y.W. editor, it’s time to disclose your source for this kol korei,if ,in fact, there is one.
Stamayid:
‘If it was fake they would want…….matzil’
Did it ever occur to you that maybe they want to drop some hint that it IS a hoax???
jdspero – Obviously we all hope that Moshiach comes very soon, and given that Moshiach will be someone living at that time (which hopefully means someone living in our midst now), I think it would be a safe bet that whether he is Chassidish or Litvish he speaks Yiddish. (Of course, if Moshaich is a Sefardi that would not be the case, but I doubt that is what you meant).
Unless you think that Mashiach will have a Kipah Serugah. If that is so you may be in for a surprise…
i called the Rosh Yeshiva R’Green – I did not speak with him, I hope to do so later – the person, I assume it was his wife, so the notice and confirmed it looked like his signature.
…stay tuned, I will call back again later
Moshiach, how we wait for his arrival!
What will he wear, and how will he speak!
Probably a long white robe with a talis covering his head, in order to be accepted by all. The loshon spoken will be Loshon Hakodesh, so that all Jews can understand. (for those who cant, artscroll & feldheim will give instant messaging via a kosher cellphone).
One thing for sure.
Moshiach will come when the world is either ‘kulo zakai'(all good) or kulo chayov(all bad).
A very choshover Rebetzin once said’ you see, because of these few tzadikkim, Moshiach is being delayed’.
Bitter humour actually!
who needs artscroll and feldheim – there will always be someone on YW to translate what was said (and others to argue about what was said :o)
FMlogic123 There is absolutely no difference between lashon hakodesh and Ivrit. According to you paroh could speak Ivrit but not lashon hakodesh? There are 73 languages in the world? No there are 72. Even today there are only 72, even though if you count you will find more than 72. There are however different dialects and slangs that might be different. But to say that they are different languages is border line kefirah. As far as the Arabs in Israel speaking in Ivrit…….what language are you writing and reading this in? why? shouldnt you only speak yiddish or hebrew (also the same language)? You live in the USA so you speak english. They live in the HOLY(kadosh)LAND, therefore they speak the holy(kadosh)language, LASHON HAKODESH. And its sadder that we live in america and speak english than them living there speaking lashon hakodesh, ivrit, jewish, hebrew, or whatever else you want to call it. Kol Tov
Gemorakop, mehayche taise that moshiach wont be wearing a kipah seruga? For that matter until we stop differentiating between black hats, shtreimels, kipot srugot or any other intangibles, THAT HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IF YOURE JEWISH OR HOW JEWISH YOU ARE, MOSHIACH NEBACH WONT COME.
“FMlogic123 There is absolutely no difference between lashon hakodesh and Ivrit.”
Was this meant in earnest?
first of all,
jdspero- i heard from a major ba’al mussar of the previous generation that moshiach will speak YIDDISH. because that is the shprach that is meyuchad for jews. (although in today’s day and age i’m not sure if that still applies).
stamayid: i didn’t quite comprehend all your babble about 72/73 languages etc. etc. however one thing is for certain- Ivrit IS NOT “lashon hakodesh”!! it is a language made up by an APIKORES less then 150 years ago. in fact one of the qualities you find in lashon hakodesh is that there is no nivul peh in the language , as opposed to ivrit. also it is known that gedolim of the previous generations such as the steipler, and chazon ish ZTA”L would not speak “ivrit” with the modern hebrew inflections and words, but rather Lashon Hakodesh. (e.g. as you will find in most teshuva seforim the word for electricity used is “electric” written phoneticly in hebrew rather then the ivrit word of chashmal, which is a word used in the nevuah of Yechezekiel, about the ma’aseh merchava describing the fiery radiance surrounding the Shechina seated upon the heavenly chariot.)
I think it is safe to assume that moshiach will be qualified to sit on the sanhedrin in which case he will know all languages. 2. Modern Hebrew is not the same as lashon kodesh although it is based on it. There is on word for lifeguard since they didn’t exist at that time. 3. Regarding tznius I must confirm my sources before posting so that I shouldn’t just be saying boich torah like some of the other posts.
as promised regarding tznius. see otzar haposkim even hoezer (even ezra is a pirush al hatorah) 21:1 where a difference of opinions is brought regarding whether histaklus applies to women. Even so shok besha erva and the like are not applicable and a woman may recite kriyas shema in front of a man even he only the actual erva is covered OC75. It would seen from here that a man may not in to Miami Beach while a woman may say shema there. p.s. to throw around accusations of kefira is worse than many of the things regarding which those accusations are made. Please use some discretion when writing about ikrei emunah as they are not a joking matter.
who cares what type of head covering he will wear – or what color frock. what will amaze everyone is not what he wears but that we will not care what he wears or what anyone else wears. no source for this – I just think the whole conversation of garb is silly
The surprise about the kol korei is perplexing. If the apartment overlooked a place where people wore no clothes at all, such as certain colonies, would anyone with an ounce of yiras shomayim consider buying or even visiting such an apartment? Do you think three inches of fabric makes a difference?
to Sara: Ivrit and Loshon Hakodesh share the hebrew alphabet and not much else
Click on image to ENLARGE it.
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is this for Miami Beach only or the entire city of Miami?
was this a recent publication or perhaps something old that resurfaced?
The decree doesn’t specify what an elderly couple should do if they own an apartment facing the beach. Must they sell it?
why are there no litvisha signatures on this ????
This leaves me in a quandary…i live in miami beach and my apt. faces the beach…is this a new psak? does rav Elyashiv and rav Kanievsky endorse this kol koreh? please help
About time
I don’t understand why people want to know if it’s new/old or which Gedolim signed. These are basics that unfortunately have to be made into a Kol Koreh.
Whats the difference if their are no litvishe signatures. That is really a narishkeit to worry about
The date is on the document.
I want to know because Miami Beach has been around for some time now. It is a major stop on the parlor meeting highway and has been home for some major personalities during their convalescence from serious illness.
Are we warned not to walk the streets of NY in the summer or to avoid the boardwalks of Coney Island when the weather turns warmer? These are basics for the observant Jew and do not need a Kol Koreah.
I question what new pieces of information prompted this letter and why it is limited to the Chassidesha world.
Last I heard the yeshiva olam has not received any special shots immunizing them against this danger
Its to blurry for me to read. Is there anyway someone could rewrite what it says?
gezintumenucho, Are you telling me that you only care if r’ chaim and r’ eliyashiv support this? the vishnitze rebba alone is not good enough. All the rabbonim that signed this kol korei are massive people and talmidie chachomim.
Obviously R Matisyahu Solomon and R malkiel Kotler don’t approve of this kol korah because they are giving a shiur there right now for the yarchei kallah which is now taking place in the miami kollel.
joenj…if you lived in miami beach you’d want to know which gedolim signed it!!! dont be a tzdik on yenem’s cheshbon!!
Can you translate?
Anyone one know what age is considered old? (I guess if you have to ask then youre not old enough..). I might have to change to GrumpyAlmostOldMan.
The old joke was that the Hisachdus “issur” on going to Miami was dated “po Miami Beach”
For the benefit of all, Kol Korehs should be printed in English also. Didn’t comprehend the wording that states “a man without a beard should not travel to Miami Beach”….
ITS A FRAUD since the Skulener Rebbi’s handwriting is no where close to the way its signed here compared to a recent document since he is very not well
Dear 26 estates this is dated Teves of this year now one thing for sure is that this is a fraud
I’m not sure if everyone figured this out – but NORTH MIAMI BEACH IS OK – it says it in the Kol Koreh itself – so don’t shoot out at R’ Matisyahu Shlit”a.
Come and visit in Boyton, Delray and Deerfield, the hottest spots for real estate for seniors. Appropriate davening places, stores to buy glatt kosher, shiurim and opportunities for chesed abound.
Please translate into English. What happens to all those owners in Tower 41?? (It’s far from the beach?)
Some of the signatories used to go miami themselves!!!
And tommorw morning he’s giving a shuir in Miami Beach not North Miami Beach
FREE TRANSLATION OF THE HIGHLIGHTS (Comments welcome):
The news that we have heard — namely that certain Charedi individuals have permitted themselves to travel to Miami Beach (a place of much immorality and abomination) during the winter months — is not good. Recently, much of the seaside locales to which the Charedim travel have also become filled with immorality and abomination. (Until recently, swimming was prohibited at certain beaches). It is a great Chilul Hashem that Jews in Charedi garb travel to a place like this.
[…]
RULES:
1) It is prohibited for one who is not old to travel to Miami Beach, even to visit ones parents. This does not accomplish Kibud Av Va’Em as it is a Mitzvah Ha’Bah B’Aveirah
2) In the event that ones parents are ill and live in Miami Beach and require urgent assistance, a woman should visit them, and not a man (assuming the assistance can be rendered by a woman). Otherwise, a man may go, but shall not visit tourist locations such as bird exhibits and aquariums. He should not travel on immorality-laden streets unless absolutely necessary.
3) No one (including the elderly) may live in a dwelling whose windows have a view of the beach.
THIS TRANSLATION IS NOT COMPLETE, BUT IT HITS THE HIGH NOTES, IN MY OPINION.
what exactly is a yirei shomayim buying an apartment facing the beach for?
Yeshivah Bachur
If you move your mouse around to the lower left hand corner of the kol koreh, a button should appear that will let you make it bigger.
I suspect that we have here a case of the “everyone’s doing it so it must be ok” heter
It seems clear to me that the main problem of pritzus is being near the beach or in tourist spots. As I recall, North Miami Beach is niether. Isn’t it purely residential? Frankly I dont’ understand the “old man – young man” difference. I never saw that one in halachah.
I don’t know how much you can be medayek in the loshon of this kol koreh, but regarding North Miami Beach I see a stirah between the “raisha” and the “sayfah”.
At the top it talks about Collins Ave, the hotel strip, and near the beach. But near the end, it says something to the effect, “If you are old and must go, then go to North Miami Beach and similar places far from the beach”.
Stirah.
if you save to your computer and view it as a jpeg it will be clear.
Also the signatures can be from a stamp. Just because the Skelener Rebbe didnt sign it personally means nothing.
FMLOGIC, indeed we are warned against walking down coney island when the weather gets warmer and we do something about it. Its called the mountains. And whats the difference between yeshiva world and chasidishe world? We are all jews. I happen to be a yeshiva yungaleit but a chassidishe rebbas signature is good enough for me
joenj34 – The Miami Kollel is not it North Miami Beach, it is actually 2 blocks away from 41st Street which is prominently mentioned in the Kol Koreh.
sayitlikeitis – It is Zakein, not Zakan, old not beard! I hope you were kidding.
esg78:
There are 2 versions of this Kol Koeh. I saw one without the inclusion of North Miami Beach. That would answer the stirah.
2 things to note. 1. Pretzus away from the Beach is no more or less than what one sees anywhere else. No chidush in asuring the beach. Always wondered why so many think it’s muter to walk on the boardwalk. 2. During the winter countless Rosh Yeshivos are in Miami. As pointed out above the Miami Beach Kollel is a block off of 41st street. R’ Shushtal, R’ Matisyahu Solomon R malkiel are all in town right now. R’ Orlofsky gave shiur yesterday, R’ Reisman last week, the Bostoner Rebbe last month, the Satmar Rebbe last year…
gemorakop
I wanted to see if anyone was reading it.. & yup was kidding.
REMINDER: Comments which question Rabbonim (be it Litvish, Chassidish, Sephardic etc etc) will not be published.
Please think before commenting.
“the fact that your feeble mind can’t comprehend genius and the truth doesn’t mean that you should censor it.”
I will not debate if your right or wrong.
There are rules on this website, & Lashon Horah will not be allowed. PERIOD.
Should you need to publicly make your statement, I would suggest that on Shabos morning in your Shul, you should Klap on the Bima and speak your mind.
Don’t do it on Yeshivaworld with a phony screen-name.
Hope you got the point.
Since everyone is so sincere here, I am sure you will sell your apartment right away. As an inducement I am offering all cash for any apartment facing the water(provided I can flip it). Terms are 7 day escrow with no contingencies. Please respond ASAP.
Yeshiva world editor
Thanks for censoring all the news to keep out Lashon Hora. Keep up the great work!!
I also have my doubts as to the authenticity of this document based on the signature of the Skulener shlit”a. When was it supposedly signed? Where is it being circulated? Remember that Purim is on the way, and there are a handful or more of malicious pranksters in every community.
“who are the signatures from”
Any normal person (who obviously couldn’t read hebrew- nebech lo’l) would write who signed this. It’s clearly mashma that you know these “Gedolim” didn’t sign this and you just want to know who manufactured/forged their signature- hence “who are the signatures from”.
The Chofetz Chaim was once in a hospital. He asked his son to get him a male nurse. His son said, “Tatte, but you’re a old man.”
The Chofetz Chaim replied ” I may be old, but I AM NOT DEAD”
What’s the difference if you are old or not, if it’s assur, then its assur, if its not, then its not.
Mekablim es ha-emes mi-mi sh’omra. We accept the truth from whoever tells it to us. Obviously a yorei Shamayim has to be careful to avoid exposing himself to pritzus wherever he might encounter it — the fact that this appeal focuses on Miami Beach (when there are so many other places as well) is most likely because, as the statement itself says, so many people seem to be taking it so lightly. I happen to be visiting North Miami Beach at the moment and find it a fine community full of precious neshomos and ovdei Hashem.
to jdspero: to answer question number 3 – yes, but you have to sign a statement that you do not posess binoculars or a telescope.
jdspero,
You wrote, “Why, in this day and age are there still so-called frum people that need everything translated from Hebrew for them? We are raising a dor of very Frum, but very ignorant people. I got news for you, Moshiach will not speak English or Yiddish, so you better start sprucing up on you Lashan HaKodesh now.”
Well, jd, being involved in kiruv on a day-to-day basis, I know an awful lot of frum people who have not received the opportunity to learn fluency in Lashon HaKodesh. I guess we can now call them “so-called frum” people. I don’t have definitive answers to exactly what kind “of dor we’re raising”, but I do get a sense of the world YOU live in- extremely narrow and myopic.
Please think next time.
Perhaps the Editor can clarify the source of this document so as to settle the speculation that it is not authentic. Did it come from a reputable organization? Was it simply found online?
The intent of the Kol Koreh is to be admired whether one agrees with the exact wording or the exclusions or not.
I just wonder if something that is so short lived as a proclamation will have the desired effect.
My personal feeling is that it would be far more effective for every Rav whether it be a large Bais Medrash or a small shteibel to speak to his Olam about the issue of tznius. This can include Miami Beach , Orlando ,LA , NY and bring home the point in a way that will impact a larger segment of our population. The Catskills are not immune to this as well and many frum lives have suffered massive spiritual contamination in the mountains. This should be pounded into our heads with as much or even more vigor then the evils of the internet have been. Young and old, men and women, our indifference to these problems is epidemic. It is far easier to see someone else’s faults or control someone else’s Yetzer Hora then it is our own…. This Kol Koreh is a good beginning but it must not end here.
Shtusim, what an appropriate name. When and where exactly was the Chofetz Chaim ever in a hospital. A similar story is tolld about the Chofetz Chaim, but he did not say “I may be old, but I am not dead.” Since I am not 100% sure of the Chofetz Chaim’s exact loshon or where the story happened, I will not relate it here.
there is a story about R’Lopian z’tl when a young man asked about attending a wedding. he figured the young man was asking b/c there may be immodest women there. the young man replied that there may be, but he trained himself not to notice or effect him. R’Lopian replied that he is an old man and he has very poor vision and it still bothers him.
Not sure of the source of the story – I heard it from the previous Rav of my Shul.
jdspero – First of all if you think that Mashiach won’t speak Yiddish, I think you may be in for a big surprise. Also, why should the Gedolim use the Ivrit word for lifeguard instead of the English one? Is it more “holy” in Ivrit, i don’t think there is a Lashon HaKodesh or Yiddish word for lifeguard.
In regards to your point about there being no difference between men and women, we are not talking about not dressing BeTznius (they are not addressing that crowd), they are talking about watching what you see, and in that regard that definitely applies to men, not very much so to women.
with all these comments you would think the neturi katta put this out!!!!!!
JDSPERO First of all lishetascha that it has to be fake b/c if it was real they would have written “matzil” and since they didnt it cant be real, and mimeilah fake, so the person who wrote it knew everysingle word except for lifeguard? If it was fake they would want u to believe its real and would have MADE SURE to write “MATZIL”. Chassidishe Rabbonim write in that way. They write english words instead of hebrew for words they dont feel are zoche, (or tznius) to be written in hebrew. AND BESIDES REBBAS SPEAK YIDDISH NOT HEBREW. It could be that this is fake, but not because of that. Everyone else out there, If R” Chaim or R’ Eliyashvs’ signature would be on here we would assume that it was real until proven fake. Why are we doing the opposite just b/c they are chassidishe rebbas?
Derech Agav, I live in Monsey and daven in Vishnitz everyday. I have not seen the kol korei posted anywhere. That is not a rayah to anything just stating the facts
CKY
SOME hakoras hatov. Thank you for the transalation.
JDSPERO
you have a point with regard to the word ‘lifeguard’.
STAMAYID
The question is not whether ONLY chassider Rabonim supporting this Koreh is enough, but whether or not some Yehivisher people might take this as aprohibition for ONLY chassidim. Thats is why I have my doubts as far as the authenticity of this Kol koreh.Tzinus is an issue for Rabonim whether Litvish or Chassdish!
For those who confuse Ivrit with Loshon Hakodesh you may want to look at the Chizkuni when Yosef Hatzadik says ” Ki pe hamidaber”
You may also want to understand why Paroh understand every language with the exception of Loshon Hakodesh while every Arab in EY speaks Ivrit
It’s really interesting and amusing to read everyone’s comments. Has anyone out there seen an actual copy of this anywhere? Y.W. editor, it’s time to disclose your source for this kol korei,if ,in fact, there is one.
Stamayid:
‘If it was fake they would want…….matzil’
Did it ever occur to you that maybe they want to drop some hint that it IS a hoax???
jdspero – Obviously we all hope that Moshiach comes very soon, and given that Moshiach will be someone living at that time (which hopefully means someone living in our midst now), I think it would be a safe bet that whether he is Chassidish or Litvish he speaks Yiddish. (Of course, if Moshaich is a Sefardi that would not be the case, but I doubt that is what you meant).
Unless you think that Mashiach will have a Kipah Serugah. If that is so you may be in for a surprise…
i called the Rosh Yeshiva R’Green – I did not speak with him, I hope to do so later – the person, I assume it was his wife, so the notice and confirmed it looked like his signature.
…stay tuned, I will call back again later
Moshiach, how we wait for his arrival!
What will he wear, and how will he speak!
Probably a long white robe with a talis covering his head, in order to be accepted by all. The loshon spoken will be Loshon Hakodesh, so that all Jews can understand. (for those who cant, artscroll & feldheim will give instant messaging via a kosher cellphone).
One thing for sure.
Moshiach will come when the world is either ‘kulo zakai'(all good) or kulo chayov(all bad).
A very choshover Rebetzin once said’ you see, because of these few tzadikkim, Moshiach is being delayed’.
Bitter humour actually!
who needs artscroll and feldheim – there will always be someone on YW to translate what was said (and others to argue about what was said :o)
FMlogic123 There is absolutely no difference between lashon hakodesh and Ivrit. According to you paroh could speak Ivrit but not lashon hakodesh? There are 73 languages in the world? No there are 72. Even today there are only 72, even though if you count you will find more than 72. There are however different dialects and slangs that might be different. But to say that they are different languages is border line kefirah. As far as the Arabs in Israel speaking in Ivrit…….what language are you writing and reading this in? why? shouldnt you only speak yiddish or hebrew (also the same language)? You live in the USA so you speak english. They live in the HOLY(kadosh)LAND, therefore they speak the holy(kadosh)language, LASHON HAKODESH. And its sadder that we live in america and speak english than them living there speaking lashon hakodesh, ivrit, jewish, hebrew, or whatever else you want to call it. Kol Tov
Gemorakop, mehayche taise that moshiach wont be wearing a kipah seruga? For that matter until we stop differentiating between black hats, shtreimels, kipot srugot or any other intangibles, THAT HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IF YOURE JEWISH OR HOW JEWISH YOU ARE, MOSHIACH NEBACH WONT COME.
“FMlogic123 There is absolutely no difference between lashon hakodesh and Ivrit.”
Was this meant in earnest?
first of all,
jdspero- i heard from a major ba’al mussar of the previous generation that moshiach will speak YIDDISH. because that is the shprach that is meyuchad for jews. (although in today’s day and age i’m not sure if that still applies).
stamayid: i didn’t quite comprehend all your babble about 72/73 languages etc. etc. however one thing is for certain- Ivrit IS NOT “lashon hakodesh”!! it is a language made up by an APIKORES less then 150 years ago. in fact one of the qualities you find in lashon hakodesh is that there is no nivul peh in the language , as opposed to ivrit. also it is known that gedolim of the previous generations such as the steipler, and chazon ish ZTA”L would not speak “ivrit” with the modern hebrew inflections and words, but rather Lashon Hakodesh. (e.g. as you will find in most teshuva seforim the word for electricity used is “electric” written phoneticly in hebrew rather then the ivrit word of chashmal, which is a word used in the nevuah of Yechezekiel, about the ma’aseh merchava describing the fiery radiance surrounding the Shechina seated upon the heavenly chariot.)
I think it is safe to assume that moshiach will be qualified to sit on the sanhedrin in which case he will know all languages. 2. Modern Hebrew is not the same as lashon kodesh although it is based on it. There is on word for lifeguard since they didn’t exist at that time. 3. Regarding tznius I must confirm my sources before posting so that I shouldn’t just be saying boich torah like some of the other posts.
as promised regarding tznius. see otzar haposkim even hoezer (even ezra is a pirush al hatorah) 21:1 where a difference of opinions is brought regarding whether histaklus applies to women. Even so shok besha erva and the like are not applicable and a woman may recite kriyas shema in front of a man even he only the actual erva is covered OC75. It would seen from here that a man may not in to Miami Beach while a woman may say shema there. p.s. to throw around accusations of kefira is worse than many of the things regarding which those accusations are made. Please use some discretion when writing about ikrei emunah as they are not a joking matter.
who cares what type of head covering he will wear – or what color frock. what will amaze everyone is not what he wears but that we will not care what he wears or what anyone else wears. no source for this – I just think the whole conversation of garb is silly
The surprise about the kol korei is perplexing. If the apartment overlooked a place where people wore no clothes at all, such as certain colonies, would anyone with an ounce of yiras shomayim consider buying or even visiting such an apartment? Do you think three inches of fabric makes a difference?
to Sara: Ivrit and Loshon Hakodesh share the hebrew alphabet and not much else