El Al has agreed to the demands of the Gedolei Yisroel not to be Michallel Shabbos again, and have agreed to consult with the Rabonim in case of an emergency – and need to fly. (Details in extended article)
Apparently, the major stalemate was as follows:
Two weeks ago when YW reported that they were close to signing an agreement – it was close. There was just one problem. Maran R’ Eliyashiv Shlita wanted that all money which El Al had made on the cancellation fees be given to Tzedakah. El Al actually agreed to this demand, but refused to put it into escrow so the Rabbonim can monitor the funds and see if in fact it was being distributed amongst Tzedakahs.
This turned into a stalemate – with El Al refusing to place the money ($500,000) into escrow.
Along came an Askan (who will remain nameless on this website) from America who (without getting into private information), approached El Al and made a deal with El Al on behalf of the Gedolim.
He proposed that El Al promise to pay the money to Tzedakah (with an attorney signing the documents), and if they don’t HE will lay out the half a million dollars to Tzedakah and then sue El Al in court for the money.
Thus – the brains of this Askan – defused the situation.
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34 Responses
If that is what really happened. Kol Hakovod Lo !
Is there a way to get some statement in writing? There have been so many rumors. Are you sure that this is final? We don’t want to make new tickets only to have to cancel them again.
May I ask why the decision was to give the cancellation fees for tzedakah in stead of returning them to the people who paid for them?? I mean giving tzedakah is very nice and big mitzvah, but doesn t one’s own loss take priority???
I am glad it has been resolved, but I must admit that this latest info was a big letdown for me. I cancelled my ticket with no money coming back and paid the cancellation fee to boot. I did this as soon as we were told that a Chillul Hashem is involved and there is no heter of Hefsed Merubah. Now it turns out it was mainly about monitoring a Tzedaka escrow account ?!. I have an idea – why not use the 500K to reimburse people that have had a loss of money ? I’m sure some of them may have even needed Tzedaka themselves.
a FURTHER POINT….I dont think this “askan’ would make any headway in court. In the contract it says that the money is NON REFUNDABLE…
I agree. Although I with all of you…However, consult your Rabbi on this, you may be able to consider the cancellation fees part of your maaser since it is going to tzedakah…
and yes would someone please stop writing artciles without any backup information from the Rabbis stating that a deal has been reached…This causes much confusion
The gadlus of this askan is not just the five hundred thousand dollars., it’s the anonymous
So can you pay for the cancellation fees from ma’aser money? Did anyone hear a psak on this?
Like I said earlier, I still do not know why a Kol Koreh was never issued, either for the boycott or against it. Now I see my Rov was correct.Not to lose money on your tickets. To think is the above rumor is true, that what was holding back the final decision was money, I am afraid to say what I think.
HINT: Before posting THINK!!!!!!
Don’t waste your time, or ours.
Thanks and Good Shabbos.
when making travel plans keep in mind that this can happen again & then what happens ?
Shlome:
I’m very sorry about your loss of your hard earned money. I hope you get it back somehow. However I think it was people like you who did the right thing and listened to Gedolei Yisroel in canceling your tickets that forced EL AL to make this agreement! Mega dittos to you. And remember NOBODY can take away money that was apportioned to you min hashamayim. I have no doubt that you will be paid back keifil k’flaiyim for whatever loss you took l’kavod shabbos.
Gut Shabbos
🙂
I dont know who the YW editor/s is/are but they have no haskomo that I know of. So far I think all information has been correct on this website, but that doesnt mean that this your new local Rov & definiatly not a godel or posek. If there is no evidance/ public notice to say the same thing, IMHO I would wait to see something (or wait until it is posted here) before makeing any travel plans.
Nameless-What has this got to do with the “non refundable”agreement on the ticket????This is a seperate deal which he brokered between the gedolim and ElAl-A contract which anyone can make which obligates one another-It doesn’t make a difference where ElAl got those funds…
As a seperate point,i definately agree with all those who say/and feel that the funds should have been returned to their original and rightful owners.But if you won’t be able to get it back,the fact that you made a tremendous kiddush hashem with that money,should somewhat comfort you.Hashem yimaleh chesroncha…You won’t lose by listening to the gedolim-guaranteed.
i also lost a great deal of money in this episode.
how often in your life do have the opportunity to be moser nefesh in a really significant way, in order to unquestionably listen to the psak of the Gedolim of Yisroel, even though it hurts?
what an opportunity! what a zchus! what an honor!
feivel
“El Al actually agreed to this demand, but refused to put it into escrow so the Rabbonim can monitor the funds and see if in fact it was being distributed amongst Tzedakahs.”
Which Tzedahas were supposed to receive this money? If the funds were to be monitored by the Rabbis isn’t this an inherent conflict of interest? I think a neutral third party should have been suggested as the distributor of the Tzedakah money in question that was agreeable to both the Rabbis and El AL
behappy: (maybe others)
you think NOW you understand the reasons and motivation behind the actions of the Gedolim. you and i never will.
please dont assume that what is reported, (even if 100% factual as to what was observed at the negotiating table) gives us any insight WHATSOEVER into the motivations and reasoning, thoughts and heart, and Torah das of the Gedolim. They are the representatives of HaKodeshBorchu, that he has given to us, to speak to us for him.
feivel
Feivel,
I totally agree with you.
I have tickets on elal for next week but bought yestarday another set on continental just in case, on one hand i paid alot for the continental last minute tickets and i would have to pay a change fee now, on the other hand I got another trip to Israel this year because I listened to the gedolim I am not sure I would have gone again otherwise.
Gevaldig,
What a zechus,
Good Shabbos
A few points:
1) I just contacted the Agudas Yisrael office to confirm that their previous letter is now void. They said that it is, and it is now okay to fly ElAl.
2) To Shlome and anyone who lost money, I’m jealous of you. I only had an inconvenience in planning my trip. You put your money where your belief is, and in doing so, you didn’t “lose” your money. You “purchased” the mitzvah of Kiddush Hashem and Emunas Chachomim. That is a very valuable mitzvah – especially in our times where so many people question the authority and decisions of the Gedolei Hador .
3) To anyone who lost money in the last 2 weeks and now questions why they had to lose it over such a “trivial” issue: R’ Elyashiv, shlita obviously knew that there was further financial loss involved to Klal Yisrael, and if he still remained adament, there must be some reason why he felt that it was necessary to take that stand. If we can’t have Emunas Chachomim in R’ Elyashiv, then who should we have Emunas Chachomim in?
Shabbat Shalom.
The JFK website reports that flight 008 departed at 11:29 pm and landed TLV at 3:36 pm. Candle lighting in Tel Aviv was 4:31 pm.
We havent seen any proof from gedolim yet – only this website.
getalife,
I didnt say that you could use maaser money..I said that you may be able to . Consult your Rabbi. Since El Al will be giving the $ to Tzedaka….
I have inside info that the 500,000 dollars is not cancelation $, but rather a request for knas money to be held in escrow in case they do fly on shabbos again
Baruch Hashem this issue has been resolved. All those who lost money because of this episode had a great zechus and Hashem will find a way to give you back the money that you lost.
“To Karl,
I have to agree with you fully.
Until I see a Kol Kolreh with signed signatures, everything else is heresay and not to believed.
To feivel, you missed my point completely. I am all for listening to your Gadol, all I said, is the way the information is being spread by the net, including what YW wrote, does not mean they said it, nor does it mean they want us to know why the agreement was made.
I think it was very irresponsible for this blog to keep on announcing classified information without any Kol Koreh from the Gedolim.Remember, this net if officially Asur, if I am suppose to find out about something which concerns me, I would like 100% proof.
I do agree with what you wrote,”please dont assume that what is reported, (even if 100% factual as to what was observed at the negotiating table) gives us any insight WHATSOEVER into the motivations and reasoning, thoughts and heart, and Torah das of the Gedolim. They are the representatives of HaKodeshBorchu, that he has given to us, to speak to us for him.”
I therefore ask my Rav what to do, when I do not know, something which is obvious but others for some reason hold me against it.
According to Jpost.com, the agreement was that any money that would be made on future ( emergency- pikuach nefesh) flights, would go to the health ministry in Isreal…. So if this is true, please change the posting that the money from cancellation fees was what held up the Psak, as this is especially disturbing to many people, including me- who purchased new non- refundable tickets the night before the agreement….
I can see some potential tax issues and other legal corporate governance issues that might have arisen had El Al gone with the arrangement initially proposed, but which are be less likely under the new arrangement brokered by the unnamed askan (whose identity seems to be quite well known in various circles).
On the surface, the obvious question is: Why should the money not be given back to the people who paid the cancellation fees? El Al has a list. Did anyone actually ask Rav Elyashiv shlita, what his cheshbon is. He is a very smart man, besides being a godol hador. There has to be some very good explanation. There is no question that we do not have the whole picture.
you guys have all wrong
1. the rabonim asked that if it happen again elal give back all money they refused
2. then they asked that they give it to tzdukah they refused
3.they came up with an agrement that it go to the min.of health( a gov. agency) to give more med. that is not covered by insurance for poor pepole.
4.YW reported that there was a problem with the escgro
P.S. it was repored in the paper this week( with pict.) that R’ Mnasha Kline from BP was by R’ elyasov & asked him what to do . he has $12,000 in tic.’s for him& fam. on elal for last week. R’ elyashv told him lose the money becouse if u fly it is a big chllul hasem that frum yidim are not lisening to the rabonim & ‘u r a chav l’achrinah’ becouse if elal see that u are not lisening to the rabonim they see the rabonim have ” not legid” & do not reprsent the tzibur.so u r offseting the erlicha yid that lost money for nothing
Read:
Thus, the brains of this Askan – found a way for everybody to save face.
According to the ElAl website, flight 008 landed Friday at 3:54pm. With all the other flights arriving between 3 and 4pm, I dont know how anyone sane could have been on this flight.
Also according to their site, a flight from Luxemburg arrived at 20:15 on LAYL SHABBOS and a flight from Amsterdam arrived MOTZAI SHABBOS at 17:45 (5:45pm). This, my dear friends, is a bunch of garbage as shabbos was “ois” in TLV at 5:30pm! This means that the flight flew over Israel either on Shabbos or very shortly after Shabbos if it landed from the west.
I guess we have to be morons to think they did not fly on shabbos as it was CLEARLY Shabbos IN BOTH LOCATIONS when they left Amsterdam!
yessssssssss. i cant believe it. we can actually fly elal. YW u r great
Mark Levin the sight could be talking about diffrent time zones etc… also internet sites don’t always have exact accurate information.
Mark Levin
The Amsterdam flight is just one of many Sun D’Or flights that are run on shabbat. If you want to count those, then there are over 13 to all of Europe that fly on shabbat and land on shabbat. They are listed as LY flights for mileage points accrual, and utilize the dormant El Al aircraft, but are technically as code-sharing with an independent airline (Sun D’Or) as if it was Air France or Swiss.