“Shabbos Deserves Better”
By Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz. (This article will I”H appear in this weeks Yated.)
Since the dawn of Jewish history, Shabbos has been the bedrock of our existence and identity as a people.
Jews who are Shomrei Shabbos and those who aren’t may share the same spiritual and ethnic roots but they inhabit different universes. Those who are loyal to the Torah and its precepts refrain from working on Shabbos. They see Shabbos as an ultimate gift from G-d to the Jewish people that occupies a central place in our lives—not only on Shabbos, but a whole week They can’t imagine life without the spiritual replenishment of Shabbos.
Jews who feel G-d’s presence seven days a week feel it ever more intensely on Shabbos. They honor Shabbos in their every action, thought and word. Shabbos in their homes is something you perceive with all your senses. You can smell it, see it, hear it, taste it, touch it.
A yid who is Shomer Shabbos can not be enticed to live differently. Jews hungered and lived in abject poverty rather than compromise their fidelity to Shabbos. We all know the stories of the Jews who came to this country at the turn of the last century escaping pogroms, pestilence and disease. When they went looking for work many were told that if they didn’t show up on Saturday they shouldn’t bother coming back on Monday; their job would be handed over to some other hapless immigrant.
I remember attending the levayeh of my grandfather in Fall River, Mass. I remember looking out at the vast Jewish cemetery in that New England town once home to thousands of Jews. It was a huge cemetery and there was something strange about it; as I stood there looking out at the property, it appeared to be two cemeteries with a large swath of empty land separating them. The area where my grandparents are buried is markedly smaller than the other.
I asked the Chazan the reason for the demarcation line. His response was that this was the Shabbosdiker Beis Olam, the other, larger one, was the Vochidiker Beis Olam. The circumstances were not conducive to a more lengthy explanation, and though I felt dumb not knowing what in the world he was talking about I waited until the end of the kevurah to ask my father what in the world was a Shabbosdiker and a vochidker beis olam.
He explained that the Shabbosdiker was for niftarim who held on to Shabbos with great mesirus nefesh. The Vochidiker was for those who couldn’t. His words made such a striking impression on me. They drove home to this young American boy the awesome battle that Jews had to wage in years past for the right to observe Shabbos. Our flourishing Torah communities today owe their existence to these Jews.
That’s how it was in those days. The temptation was great, poverty was rampant, the children were cold and hungry; what was a Jew to do? Those who held fast and observed Shabbos held on to their children and families and were laid to rest in the Shabbosdiker beis olam.
It is not for us, in a new world a century later, who speak the language, live comfortably in heated homes, and are blessed with a five-day work week, to judge those who had nothing.
Who knows how we would have responded to the challenges they faced? Are we so certain that we would have passed the excruciating tests of hunger, poverty and destitution? Boruch Hashem we are not faced with their choices. Thank G-d we are not confronted with such harsh temptations. We take for granted that we and everyone in our safe and comfortable world are Shomer Shabbos.
If it would cost us an extra $100 to keep Shabbos, would we hesitate even a moment? If it cost us $500, would we be tempted to trample on the holy Shabbos? How about $1,000 or $10,000? Of course not. There is no question, no doubt. Would you miss an event you really wanted to attend if getting there involved chillul Shabbos? Of course. What’s the question?
Despite the ease with which we can observe Shabbos today, we have a different kind of challenge that tests our love and allegiance to this holy day
Gedolim have called for a boycott of El Al because the airline’s top management did not honor an agreement to avoid flying on Shabbos. Do we really have to know all the details? Is it important for each of us to know the minutia of the negotiations? Is it really that difficult for us to fly on a different airline until the matter is settled? Should a minor cancellation fee dilute our commitment and stop us from proclaiming the supremacy of Shabbos over all material considerations?
Shabbos is our declaration that G-d created the world and nothing that occurs is by happenstance. Shabbos proclaims that the G-d who created the world looks out for and protects those who bear His message.
Today, more than ever, as our enemies arm themselves with the most powerful arms known to man and lust for our blood, we have to remind ourselves that it is only the One above who can protect us from their evil designs. Our only weapons against our adversaries are weapons of the spirit. Meticulous honoring of Shabbos is one such powerful weapon.
The sight of chillul Shabbos should deeply disturb us. Walking onto an airplane with Hebrew letters adorning its side, knowing that it profaned the Shabbos, should give us pause. It should hurt us. The airline’s owners are carefully gauging the response of the religious community as they sit down to decide policy. When visibly religious Jews board one of their planes it sends a message that they are indifferent to the trampling of the Shabbos and that they don’t feel its pain. That will undoubtedly encourage El Al to widen the breach and to steadily chip away at the sanctity of Shabbos with further encroachments.
When you cross that threshold into the fuselage, it is if you have taken a Sefer Torah, thrown it on the ground and walked on it for your convenience.
It’s not that often that we are tested like this and called upon to proclaim our fidelity to Shabbos. Now that we have been, let’s not shirk our responsibility.
Let us all rise as Shabbosdiker yidden and announce without any shame that the value of kedushas Shabbos is not open to debate, negotiation and/or compromise.
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
42 Responses
One thing my Father always told me as a young child.
“If a person asks if You keep Shabbos , your response should be “NO”. SHABBOS KEEPS ME”
Is Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz YESHIVA WORLD?
How else would he get the Yated on Tues?
He lives in a country which is about three days ahead of north america….they get the news way before it happens….
Maybe someone can help me understand. If you disagree with this article,you are not shomer shabbos?
“When you cross that threshold into the fuselage, it is if you have taken a Sefer Torah, thrown it on the ground and walked on it for your convenience”.
I beg to differ.I happen to know my Rebbi who I consider him a Gadol, disagrees with this assumption. He even went and is coming back on El Al, does that mean he doesn’t care for Shabbos?
Are we going to get our Das Torah from the Yated? Maybe we should go to the blogs?
I have not yet seen any Kol Korah from the Gedolim on it.Do they now consider my Rebbi as somebody who walks on a Sefer Torah for his convenience.Maybe we should know the details.
“Is it important for each of us to know the minutia of the negotiations? Is it really that difficult for us to fly on a different airline until the matter is settled? ”
Maybe, yes, maybe, the answer to his questions is YES.
My Rebbi has gone and is coming back on el al.
“When you cross that threshold into the fuselage, it is if you have taken a Sefer Torah, thrown it on the ground and walked on it for your convenience”
Is the Yated now going to claim it has Dass Torah and be willing to knock other Gedolim which disagree with him?
Where is the Kol Koreh?
Pinchos Lipshutz is the editor of the Yated.
Yes we must follow the guidance of the Gedolei Yisroel. If they say we should not fly EL AL, then we should not fly EL AL. Period. Why do we need silly self serving, self congratulating articles like this.
Chillul Shabbos is a major problem and we must do everything we can to prevent it through kiruv, love and education. Threats and intimidation rarely work. Circumstances prove from time to time we must make a “m’cho’a” As R’ Chaim Shmulevitz said “If it hurts, then we must cry.”
This article is typical of the Yated and the main reason why I stopped buying it years ago. It is juvenile, immature and is a typical example of preaching to the converted. The tone comes off as condescending and smug.
The article states “When you cross that threshold into the fuselage, it is if you have taken a Sefer Torah, thrown it on the ground and walked on it for your convenience.”
What rationale is there for such a wild statement?
Who said this, Lipshutz or the Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel. It is pure incendiary rhetoric coming out of kanaus and no sense of reality. If a person works for a company that sends him to Eretz Yisroel on business, then very often he has no choice but to fly on the airline that the company chooses. Is such a person throwing a Sefer Torah on the ground C”V?
“Walking onto an airplane with Hebrew letters adorning its side, knowing that it profaned the Shabbos, should give us pause. It should hurt us.”
But I haven’t heard anyone claiming that we shouldn’t travel on Egged buses.
Please Rabbi Lipshutz credit your readership with more intelligence. We don’t need to be preached to. If your aim is kiruv then you are off the mark. Your explanations don’t hold water. The vast majority o fthe Yated’s readership are the ones who will follow the direction of the gedolim. To do a service for the klall, please devote some more of your remarkable talents to writing for those more left leaning
I totally agree with someone in BP stopped buying the Yated years ago. these comments in the article above are rediculous.
Ohh come on people!!. If you do not like what he wrote hit the back key and go on.
In my humble opinion, Rabbi Lipschutz wrote a masterpiece! I like his style and I love the YATED!
I look forward reading the YATED!! It is the one and only paper I allow in to my home for my children to read.
I have NO COMMENT to the persons who wrote above comments bedsides …… SHEM ZACH!!!
Ohh come on people!!. If you do not like what Rabbi Lipschutz wrote hit the back key and go on.
In my humble opinion, Rabbi Lipschutz wrote a masterpiece!
I like his style and I love the YATED! It is the one and only paper I allow in to my home for my children to read.
I have NO COMMENT to the persons who wrote the comments above, bedsides …… SHEM ZACH!!!
It seems like many of u are simply missing the point. Indeed we dont need Pinny lecturing to us (especially since most of the Yated readers are takeh the ones that do and will continue to listen to the gedolim)
However the issue here is not pinny’s article, but rather it is the challenge to all of us if we will do the right thing even at the expense of loosing a ticket (as i myself am doing unless El Al buckels under between now and my travel date).
Will we look for heterim to use the tickets that were purchased already prior to this whole tumult? will we say we do not have to loose the $$$$?
Like Pinny writes in the article we B”H do not have the nisyonus of Shmiras Shabbos that our grandparents had, but we do have a small opportunity to stand up “LEMAN KEDUSHAS SHABBOS” (yES IT IS ONLY A VERY SMALL SACRIFICE COMPARED TO WHAT OUR GRANDPARENTS HAD TO ENDURE)
In response to “someone in BP” who says that Rabbi Lipschutz is preaching to the converted, I would advise him to read the other comments of people(e.g. BeHappy) who are still not sure if this is something we should follow. I, for one, am at a loss in seeing anything in the article that smacks of condescension, smugness and being self-serving. How writing an essay describing the mesiras nefesh for Shabbos of the previous generations is seif-congratulating is beyond me.
Thank You Rabbi Lipschutz for telling it like it is.
R’ sorry! Rav ,sorry! Reb sorry!Rabbi sorrry!! GRAND RABBI PINCHOS LIPSHUTZ !?! a frilich purim!
Someone in BP writes “The vast majority of the Yated’s readership are the ones who will follow the direction of the gedolim.” SORRY, if you read the posts in YW since this story broke you will see repeated attempts at calling into question the judgement of our Gedolim. We need many more Rabbi Lipschutz’s to articulately convey to these mechutzafim the error of their ways, and yes attempts at kiruv even among our own seems unfortunately to be required here.
to someone in BP
As R’ Chaim Shmulevitz said “If it hurts, then we must cry.”
I think it was the Brisker Rav ZT”L that said it.
vesh,
I don’t mean to offend you but please read the article again and then my comments again.
My point is why do we need the incendiary rhetoric in the article. If he wants to convince someone to follow the p’sak of the Gedolim, then let him write a reasoned article with convincing proofs and reasoned arguments. Statements like the ones that i objected to are no more than invective and I feel detract from his point.
As I said at the beginning of my comments, we must follow the directive of the Gedolim. We must make a protest. I don’t disagree with it. I disagree with the immature style of writing, which I and many others feel smacks of smugness.
BTW, be happy has an extemely valid point. Where is the written published p’sak of the G’dolim. A newspaper is a newspaper not a sefer Halocha. We are not expected to live our lives in accordance with the editorial pages of the Yated. The mishna says “Aseh lecha Rav”. it doesn’t say Read a newspaper. We all know, and if one doesn’t then he is simply naive, that not every Kol Koreh can be believed. Signatures are forged, lanuguages are changed. That is why a yid has to have a Rov to ask a shailo.
Rabbi Dovid Cohen of Flatbush, paskened during the past few days, for ppl who asked him, that if they have already purchased an el al ticket they need NOT cancel and lose money – they CAN fly el al.
Is this great posek trampeling on sifrei torah !!??!!
Please realize dear friends, that this type of hyperbole creates a lot of anger in frum people, like me, toward those who think that the words of their “gedolim” are the only truth and that everyone else is trampeling on the torah. This case is but one example.
BTW – I challange Pinchos Lipschutz to answer the following:
Based on your passionate words, how many sifrei torah were tramplled over the decades that the “chareidi” world packed the planes of Tower Air, an airline that was owned by a Jew (Morris Nachtomi) and openly flew scheduled flights every single shabbes of the year, for years and years, while during the exact same time period el al violated NOT ONE SHABBES ?
And one more question. How much cheaper was Tower Air that such a huge number of people in the “chareidi” world succumb to the temptation and chose to fly on the michalel shabbes Tower rather than on the shomer shabbes El Al. Was it an extra $100 ? $500 ? $1000 ?
Please let us hear from you Rabbi Lipschutz.
how come there is no machoa of chilil shabos right here in boro park carrying in reshus harabim is no difernt then flying a plain on shabbos
Putting aside, for the time being, issues such as whether we should or should not fly El Al, and whether crossing the threshold into an El Al jet’s fusilage does or does not afford all of the conveniences of walking on a Sefer Torah, and whether Rabbi Lipschutz is or is not getting a bit melodramatic, and just what is Rabbi Lipschutz’s and Yated’s REAL agenda here; Putting all such issues aside:
Harken back to the 10 December posting “New Hampshire Elects Frum Person.”
“Smeel” posted the comment “What is this fruma yid doing there? weard!”
In response to Smeel, I posted the following comment:
Smeel, your attention is directed to the Hamodia of 1 Kislev 5767 / 22 November 2006, page 11, specifically, the Letter to the Editor from one Y. Rose of Boro Park. Mr/Ms Rose observes that frum Jews “in New York’s Torah enclaves … underestimate and even dismiss the significance of growth of Yiddishkeit outside the New York area — meaning the five boroughs of New York City, Monsey and Lakewood.”
– The Expatriate Owl (who lives outside the five boroughs of New York City, Monsey and Lakewood).
Note that Rabbi Lipschutz’s grandfather lived not in Boro Park, or Flatbush, or Williamsburg, or Crown Heights, or anywhere else in the five boroughs, or even in Monsey or in Lakewood! Rabbi Lipschutz’s grandfather was a Shabbosdiker who lived in Fall River, Massachusetts!
I reiterate and re-emphasize the Hamodia letter by Mr/Ms Rose!
Do not underestimate, let alone dismiss, the significance of growth of Yiddishkeit outside the New York area!
And while you are at it, do not take a disdainful view of all of those out-of-town Shabbosdikers who are paying someone’s Yeshiva tuition.
– The Expatriate Owl (who, I reiterate, lives outside the five boroughs of New York City, Monsey and Lakewood).
[For the record, maybe El Al could use a little reminder of who they are and what their priorities should be.]
Yehudi Echad – I was talking about the Yated readership not this blog on the tummadik ossur internet.
“We need many more Rabbi Lipschutz’s to articulately convey to these mechutzafim the error of their ways, and yes attempts at kiruv even among our own seems unfortunately to be required here.”
That is exactly my point. This article by using incendiary language and hyperbole is not effective kiruv/education. Our Gedolim have so many kavvonos when they decide such weighty issues as these. The Yated does not do them justice when writing such an article.
If it is felt that the p’sak of our gedolim needs justification, then by all means do so. But do it effectively. Use logical, reasoned, arguments not passionate, emotional ones. But saying that flying EL AL now is like trampling on a Sefer Torah C”V is absolutely ludicrousand it diminishes the power of your argument. If all you have to say is such a statement then what is the power of the argument.
Once again, For most of the Torah World, the words of our Rebbeim are binding and do not need any justification. If you are talking Kiruv/education then it must be done effectively.
I will not be posting anymore on this thread BL”N. So long until next time.
dear opennews ,
there is an eruv regardless of whether or not you agree with it therefore you cannot call someone a goy for carrying.
To norman Says:
Are u sure that Rav Dovid Cohen paskened that peopel can fly El Al if they purchased a ticket already???? I find that hard to believe. Reb Dovid is a Talmid Chacham per excellance and he would not have the chutzpa to pasken against Harav Elyashiv, Rav Chaim Kannievsky, And Rav Aron Leib Shteinman who have all said that we should NOT fly El Al EVEN IF WE HAVE A TICKET AND IT WILL MEAN A LOSS OF $$$$$$.
I ASKED A FREIND IN ERETZ YISROEL TO ASK THE SHAILA BECAUSE I HAVE A NON REFUNDABLE TICKET. THE ANSWER WAS “DO NOT FLY WITH EL AL EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE A TICKET ALREADY”
How can you say that Rav Dovid Cohen paskens against the Gedolei Hador and the Posek Hador???
Anyone who considers himself a yeshivaman and a Ben Torah can not be so stupid and chuzpadik to go against the Ziknei Hador. There is a line that is drawn when it comes to these kind of shailos and Reb Dovid Cohen’s
Daas is Batul to the Gedolei Hador.
Is it possible that Reb Dovid might have said that he would have “thought” that one should use the ticket but if the Gedolim have said no then we MUST listen to them? Maybe Reb Dovid was just telling someone that he would have said that, but I am sure he did not say that we do not have to listen to the Gedolei Hador.
OCH UN VEI IZ TZU UNZ if we would fall so low that even our chosherver and great poskim here in New York would sink so low as to think that they can argue with the Gedolei Hador.
I refuse to believe that Reb Dovid Cohen who is such a great Posek and Talmid Chacham, has succumbed to the level of those that are mevaze Gedolei Hador
opennews-that is positively ridicuous!!
someone in boro park- “disagree with the immature style” so go buy another newspaper….thousands of pp read these editorials weekly and take much chizuk from them. “smacks of smugness’ who exactly is he being smug over? The point of the article is that there is daas torah which must be followed whatever which way…if your rov happens to still be flying elal kol hakovod.That is your daas torah …but the majority of the Israeli gedolim are quite against it (or at least purchasing new tickets).Lets stop asking questions from other points (i.e. egged,tower air)….thats exactly where the rifts in emunas chochomim begin.Out of curiosity,what sophistacated newspaper do you choose to read?
Below is an interesting article on this topic. Its long, but worth reading…
by Yehudah Avner
The possible renewal of Saturday flights in the wake of El Al’s
privatization calls to mind a Knesset oration of yesteryear.
For days, tension permeated the Knesset. Stocky, gesticulating men combed its corridors, committees and canteens, their numbers rising daily like tugboats heaving in fresh infusions of lobbying power. They were El Al union men, accompanied by their whispering lawyers, intent on scotching prime minister Menachem Begin’s resolve to halt the national airline’s flights on the Sabbath, from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. Without let-up, they pressured, pestered and petitioned the parliamentarians. Even the ever-ebullient, highly erudite, and strictly observant interior minister,
Dr. Yosef Burg, was collared.
He was waylaid by a union man who placed an amicable arm around his
shoulder, jabbed a forefinger into his chest and barked into his face so
grimacingly that his head was jerked backwards as if to have the arguments shoved physically down his throat.
This was on May 3, 1982, the day premier Begin limped into a crowded Knesset chamber tense with expectancy. He was in pain, recovering from a severe hip injury, and it was with heavy, purposeful steps that he mounted the tribune to deliver his El Al speech. He began quietly, factually, declaring that the government had finally decided to halt all El Al flights on Shabbat and festivals – a revelation that sent eyes glaring and hatreds flashing in the public gallery where the union men sat.
Simultaneously, a sudden restlessness seized the opposition benches, which erupted into a paroxysm of heckling: “So why don’t you shut down TV on Shabbat, too?” screamed one. “What about football matches on Shabbat?” bawled another.
“Are you going to stop Jewish merchant ships at sea, too?” shouted a third.
This spasm of derision fazed the premier not one little bit. On the
contrary, it supplied him with new inspirations of vitriolic wit.
“Shout as much as you will,” he ribbed, his deep-set, bespectacled eyes
scanning the opposition faces with scorn, his gaze finally settling on the
young, secular, radical left-winger Yossi Sarid.
“I have nothing to say to you and your kind, Mr. Sarid,” he said, with a
glance that could wither. “In fact, I have nothing to say to anyone who
supports a Palestinian state that is a mortal danger to our people.”
And then, changing tone, pitching his voice to a muted, sonorous, trembling
pitch, this man who believed in oratory as the supreme artful weapon, a
matter of style, cadence, and the application of controlled but massive
intellectual energy, intoned: “Forty years ago I returned from exile to
Eretz Yisrael. Engraved in my memory still are the lives of millions of
Jews, simple, ordinary folk, eking out a livelihood in that forlorn Diaspora
where the storms of anti-Semitism raged.
“They were not permitted to work on the Christian day of rest, and they
refused to work on their day of rest. For they lived by the commandment,
‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ “So each week they forswore two whole days of hard-won bread. This meant destitution for many. But they would not desecrate the Sabbath day.” “So, stop football on Shabbat, too?” butted in Sarid provocatively, triggering off another squall of jeers,
hissing, and name-calling.
Adroitly, to the delight of his supporters, Menachem Begin put his power of
mimicry to full use by calmly raising his right hand as if to catch a ball,
tossed it back, and resumed his rhetorical flow: “Shabbat is one of the
loftiest values in all of humanity,” he said, his voice husky with emotion.
“It originated with us. It is all ours. No other civilization in history
knew of a day of rest. “Ancient Egypt had a great culture whose treasures
are on view to this day, yet the Egypt of antiquity did not know of a day of
rest. The Greeks of old excelled in philosophy and the arts, yet they did
not know of a day of rest. “Rome established mighty empires and instituted a system of law still relevant to this day, yet they did not know of a day of rest. Neither did the civilizations of Assyria, Babylon, Persia, India, China – none of them knew of a day of rest.”
“So, put on a yarmulke,” sneered Sarid.
“Hutzpa!” boomed Begin, bristling. “I speak of our people’s most hallowed
values, and you dare stoop to mockery. Shame on you!” Then, arms up, fists balled, he thundered with the devotion of a disciple and the fire of a
champion: “One nation alone sanctified the Shabbat, a small nation, the
nation that heard the voice at Sinai, ’ so that your man-servant and your
maid-servant may rest as well as you.’ “Ours was the nation that enthroned
Shabbat as sovereign Queen.”
A crescendo of approval from the government benches sent the rafters
rattling, muffling every last vestige of dissent. And he, the Great
Commoner, idol of the common folk, caught up on the wave of his own
enthusiasm and sense of mission, rose to a pitch of almost uncontrollable
fervor, and thundered on: “So, are we in our own reborn Jewish state to
allow our blue-and-white El Al planes to fly to and fro as if broadcasting
to the world that there is no Shabbat in Israel? Should we, who by faith and
tradition heard the commandment at Sinai, now deliver a message to all and sundry through our blue-and-white El Al planes – ‘No, don’t remember the Sabbath day. Forget the Sabbath day! Desecrate the Sabbath day.’ “I shudder at the thought.”
The ensuing ruckus was terrific. The speaker sat ham-fisted, vainly banging
his gavel, which thudded as soundlessly as a velvet mallet. So Begin himself raised his palms and then lowered them gently, once, twice, thrice, until the furor quietened of itself. Whereupon, to hammer his point home, he quoted the words of the celebrated secular philosopher of early Zionism,
Ahad Ha’am: “More than the Jews kept the Sabbath day, the Sabbath day kept the Jews.”
With that, he raised his eyes to the public gallery and vouchsafed its
occupants an intensely solemn stare. “Let me say this to the good workers of El Al,” he told the crowd. “The government has been the object of threats. We disregard them. In a democracy, government decisions are not made under threat.” And then, like a sudden bugle call to historical grandeur, he perorated with compelling passion: “Know this: We cannot assess the religious, national, social, historical, and ethical values of the Sabbath day by the yardstick of financial loss or gain. In our revived Jewish state we simply cannot engage in such calculations when dealing with an eternal and cardinal value of the Jewish people – Shabbat – for which our ancestors were ready to give their lives. “One thing more. One need not be a pious Jew to accept this principle. One need only be a Jew.”
The writer was on the personal staff of four prime ministers, including
Menachem Begin. ([email protected])
[Thanks to Rabbi Alan Kalinsky]
The senseless hatred in these past few posts is hard to believe.
Though you may disagree with another, there are ways to write that are considerably nicer and more refined than the way some posters have been posting.
Chillul Shabbos aside – the Beis Hamikdash was destroyed because of Sinas Chinam, not from Chillul Shabbos.
I think we all agree that gedolim must be listened to, and that Chillul Shabbos is a grave sin. How one goes about keeping to those two aspects is one’s own perogative. Make sure the rav you consult with is a qualified, knowledgable person, ask what you should do, and follow the psak.
To degrade another simply because you disagree is inexcusable.
I’d like to see an apology from some of the posters.
And not to me, because you haven’t done anything to me.
Apologize to Klal Yisroel.
And truly change your outlook on life.
There is a fuzzy area that needs clarification. El Al used to be owned by the State and it was the Israel National airline. Thus it represented Am Yisroel in some manner. For several years now it has been a private company. Under this status, why is it singled out more than Isreair or any other Jewish owned airline that is mechallel Shabbos? Moreover, why is the chillul Shabbos of El Al any more public (b’pumbi) than any large Jewish owned company that operates on Shabbos. Why is there no boycott of such companies as well? I am not saying El Al should not be boycotted; I am asking why is only El Al the subject of this outcry l’kovod shomayim.
opennews-Don’t go there.Bigger people than you have already judged the eruv in BP.If you don’t agree with what they decided,thats your personal problem.Don’t come to The yeshiva world to let everyone know you have a problem.Keep it to yourself.
HELP! I am drowning in sorrow. As each day passes it just seems we are wandering down the path of C”V preventing Moshiach from arriving to save us.
This is all very simple and easy. The Gedolim say – we do as they say!!!!
It is not about an article or any opinion. My opinion doesn’t count, your opinion doesn’t count and neither does anyone else unless they are from our Gedolay / Manhegay Yisroel. They say – we do. Period. End of discussion! This is our Mesorah (and perhaps the Nisayon of our generation – to listen to our Gedolim and just do as they say EVEN if we do not understand)
If you disagree with this and feel you are entitled to your opinion or you are entitled to ask for details and or explanations from our Gedolim then you should agree that since you studied science in school passed your tests in Bioligy and really have a great understanding of the human heart you should be allowed to do heart surgery on any patient – why not after all I know enough….
Of course that was just silly to say right? Well it is the same with your opinion on our Gedolim. Yes we may have learned and continue to learn but we were not (yet) Zoche to the Siyata Dishmaya of being a Manhig in Klal Yisroel. So all we are, are the people who have studied the course…we are not the surgeons.
If Rabbi Dovid Cohen wishes to take a stand against the likes of Rav Elyashuv, R’ Aron Leib, Reb Chaim, Reb Shmuel Birnbaum, The Gerrer Rebbe, Chacham Ovadia Yosef etc. that is on his shoulders and his followers to deal with not ours. If the writer above says his Rebbe flew El-Al because he has not “seen” the Kol Koreh – once again that is on his shoulders to do different then what the Gedolim said not ours. We as the general population of Klal Yisroel must live our lives following the words of our leaders.
If we do we will be happy and productive. If we don’t we will continue to wander aimlessly always searching for direction. So I end as I began…..HELP! I am drowning in sorrow. As each day passes it just seems we are wandering down the path of C”V preventing Moshiach from arriving to save us.
Pinny Lipshits does make some very valid points but what i agree with on the other hand is, his style of communication, very poor.He has a very kanoisdiker approach to his messages ,which is good for the yeshiva coffe room,but considering his responsibility as an editor of a major weekly paper he should consider a more intelligent style of relaying his messages.
As I am reading this thread, I am surprised why people feel the need to knock Pinchus Lipshutz personally. While I do not know him, my parents who live in Monsey for over 30 years do. He is a very chushava Talmid Chochom, and everything he says or writes are based on conversations that he receives from Daas Torah. When he wrote what I considered a masterpiece editoral on the Gaza withdrawal and the pain it caused him, he prefaced it with a conversation he had with his Rosh Yeshiva, Harav Hagoan R’ Shmuel Kamenetzky Shlita.
Just for the record, there was a woman in Boro Park who has a daughter-in-law in Eretz Yisroel who just gave birth to triplets. The Bris will IY”H take place in Eretz Yisroel next week. Her husband called the Gerrer Rebbe Shlita and asked what to do, and was told that if the only way she can attend the Bris was by flying EL AL, STAY HOME.
STEINWAY-YASHER KOACH FRO THE WONDERFUL ARTICLE
a bisel sechel Says:
“Are u sure that Rav Dovid Cohen paskened that peopel can fly El Al if they purchased a ticket already???? I find that hard to believe. Reb Dovid is a Talmid Chacham per excellance and he would not have the chutzpa to pasken against Harav Elyashiv, Rav Chaim Kannievsky, And Rav Aron Leib Shteinman who have all said that we should NOT fly El Al EVEN IF WE HAVE A TICKET AND IT WILL MEAN A LOSS OF $$$$$$.”
Norman Replies:
Why do you go on and on theorizing what rav dovid cohen paskened. it is extremely easy to be mevarer. I believe that you have an absolute chiyuv to be mevarer before u write such terrible thing about a gadol b’yisrael.
He has daily hours for paskening shailos 3-4PM & 10-11PM, call him and find out. If i am correct and he did pasken this way, you can then follow up and ask him why he “succumbed to the level of those that are mevaze Gedolei Hador”
We await to hear your report after you spoke to him.
(Btw – he lives in flatbush and his number is listed)
I want to retract part of my comment posted earlier. I referred to Isreair as flying on Shabbos. I do not know this to be true. Please consider that statement as deleted.
Ish Yehudi asks what is the rationale for singling out El Al over other mechalel Shabbos airlines owned by Jews.
For many many years, El Al has taken affirmative action to identify itself as the airline of the Jewish people. It has entered into sweetheart deals to become the “official airline” for various Jewish functions, and to provide its services as raffle prizes and the like for the promotional fundraising activities of Jewish organizations.
Following a labor strike settlement which had grounded the airline, the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations took out a full-page ad in the New York Times [21 January 1983, p. B-16] to welcome El Al back into service. The Conference included the NCYI and the OU, who were specifically mentioned in the ad. The display ad was obviously placed with the knowledge and approval of El Al.
And, of course, El Al has extensively marketed its Jewish Heritage Tours of various countries, and has sponsored various printed guides for religiously-observant Jewish tourists to Israel. They even have their own Rav HaMachshir.
Having implicitly marketed itself as the Jewish People’s own airline, and sought out the public adulation as such, the goodwill of its observant Jewish passengers became an intangible but valuable asset of the airline, and, as such, was purchased by its new owners when the airline went to private investors. Despite its going over to the hands of private investors, El Al continues to utilize and exploit and build upon the aforementioned intangible goodwill asset by directing its advertising towards observant Jews.
Given its inextricable history of seeking to present itself to the world as the airline of Jewish people (and therefore Jewish values), El Al ought not now be heard to say that it has no responsibility to adhere to those same Jewish values.
This is especially so because El Al is more than an airline — it is a public symbol in the eyes of the world. And its public symbolhood was something it deliberately sought to attain, and not an unwanted fortuitious accident. Therefore, actions taken or not taken against this symbol will send a message to the world — to friend and enemy of the Jewish people alike.
This is why El Al is being singled out.
I think El AL needs to be punished not just for flying on Shabbos, but for not understanding the loyalty and friendship of the chareidishe community. We are heavy users of their transportation services, and even when they kick prices up 60% during the quiet post Pesach season just so that they can make money from the yeshiva bochurim going back tp yeshiva… we paid up nicely. Even when the OU pulled hashgocho from their kitchens because of repeated infractions, and they callously didn’t even bother to try and reinstate some kind of kashrus supervision, we ordered Regal meals and kept quiet.
Now they don’t adhere to the Shabbos policy they had perviously agreed to, and they walk away from the table! That is outrageous! Being irreligious is one thing, not keeping your own word and then walking away from a polite discussion is something else.
Do polite people of any religion just walk away? Talk, and explain, we know the financial pressures of running a business, many of us are businessmen too and some of us rely on heterim when necessary. I happen to know Jews who sell chometz to a non-jew for Pesach. But to walk away from the negotiating table as if one of your most loyal customer groups is trash is shameful.
Norman says
Norman Replies:
Why do you go on and on theorizing what rav dovid cohen paskened. it is extremely easy to be mevarer. I believe that you have an absolute chiyuv to be mevarer before u write such terrible thing about a gadol b’yisrael.
He has daily hours for paskening shailos 3-4PM & 10-11PM, call him and find out. If i am correct and he did pasken this way, you can then follow up and ask him why he “succumbed to the level of those that are mevaze Gedolei Hador”
We await to hear your report after you spoke to him.
(Btw – he lives in flatbush and his number is listed)
I would call him , however I know him and he knows me well so if i were to call him now he may be terribly offended by the above knowing that I say this.
I am not looking to embarass him so I will not call him, however I do have ways to be mevarer and I was somewhat mevarer already. So far I am very sad to say to say that indeed he did pasken as you claim and to that I say again what was written earlier.
You say I am being mevaze an Adom Godal and I answer you that if I would not be “moche” then I would be someone who is Mevazeh the Gedolei Hador. If one hears someone going aginst the Gedolei Hador and he is not moche then he is no better the the one going against the Gedolim.
I WILL CONTINUE TO BE MEVARER MORE AND IF INDEED HE DID PASKEN AGAINST MARAN HARAV ELYASHIV THEN HE HAS LOST HIS CHESKAS KASHRUS AND CAN NOT BE RELIED UPON TO PASKEN A SHAILA!!
In the Torah Velt today Harav Elyashiv is the POSEK ACHRON WITHOUT QUESTION!!!
a bisel sechel –
Please! Listen to your screen name and use YOUR sechel.
The animosity is uncalled for.
And to say that you WILL NOT call a rav yet disparage him without the approval of a godol is outright hypocrisy.
Did you ask Maran Harav Elyashiv to pasken on your opinion of Chezka Kashrus?
A little respect is called for, for the Klal and for all humanity.
Have a wonderful night, all!
To dreamer123
As a matter of fact I DID speak to someone. Although he isnt someone with the stature of our great Gedolim, never the less he is someone that people look up to and respect and ask shailos.
He was as shocked as I was and at first he also did not belive that Reb Dovid would do such a thing.
Please read my original comments again and you will see that I have (maybe now it is had) a yiras hakovod for Reb Dovid and I couldnt belive that he would do such a thing.
No matter what you say the bottom line remains that The Gedolei Hador with Maran Harav Elyashiv together with Marana Verabanan Reb Chaim and Reb Aron Leib have said their “DEAH”. How can you say that Reb Dovid has the right to say different?????
By the way even the Mizrachi in Eretz Yisroel have come aboard today.
Rav Dan Segel wrote a very strong worded letter as well.
My point here is that anyone who considers himself a BenTorah can not go against the Gedolei Hador.
If you were to ask a shaila of Reb Dovid (or anyone for that matter) whether or not you should listen to Harav Elyashiv’s psak or whether you can argue on him would you accept an answer that Rav Elyashiv is debateable!!!!!!! Would you even ask such a thing???????
BY telling people that they need not listen to Harav Elyashiv (i.e. you need not loose $$) he is saying in effect that you can disagree with Harav Elyashiv!!!! That is something that EVERY BEN TORAH MUST SHREI GEVALD!!!!
Ish Yehudi Says:
December 13th, 2006 at 3:51 pm “I want to retract part of my comment posted earlier. I referred to Isreair as flying on Shabbos. I do not know this to be true. Please consider that statement as deleted.”
It is true
Thanks for posting that wonderful essay about Menachem Begin.
What a difference when someone is capable of persuading through eloquence, moral authority, and common sense as opposed to politically-charged, childish rhetoric!
SD wrote :What a difference when someone is capable of persuading through eloquence, moral authority, and common sense as opposed to politically-charged, childish rhetoric!”
Sd, granted, the Begin article isgod, but maybe you can tell who exactly you refer to as the “moral authority”? While Begin was a great guy and a oheiv of the frum Yidden, what made him a moral authority? WHy is Rabbi Pinchos Lipschutz less of a moral authority than Begin?
ANd, Rabbi Lipschutz never claimed to be a moral authority if I read his article correctly. He is simply stating what the gedolim in ERetz Yisroel, namely, Rav Elyashiv and Rav CHaim Kanievsky, have said.
Also, what made Rabbi Lipschutz’s article “politically” charged? I fail to see where there is any political motivation or any politics altogether in the artice.
SD, you try to sound smart by using terms like “moral authority”, “politically charged,” and “childish rhetoric”, but you basically haven’t the foggiest idea of what you’re saying!
ah bisel sechel –
I didn’t say you were incorrect in the matter of listening to our gedolim.
What I did say was that you are incorrect in not calling R’ Dovid and asking him.
In your own words:
“I would call him , however I know him and he knows me well so if i were to call him now he may be terribly offended by the above knowing that I say this.
I am not looking to embarass him so I will not call him…”
If you are not looking to embarrass someone, disparaging him on a public forum is seemingly contradictory to the above statement.
Call him.
Ask what he meant and when he said it.
Remember, there are times when gedolim give an eitzah and other times when they give a psak.
From my understanding, at the beginning of this ordeal, many people thought the gedolim were giving an eitzah as to not fly El Al.
Later, it became clear that this was a psak.
Rabbanim, even thoughs of lower stature, may disagree on an eitzah.
Final psak is psak, though, and we must listen to our gedolim.
May we merit to see clarity in all that we do.
And may Hashem grant us the courage to do what is right at all times, even when it may be tough.
Good night, all!
Rabbi Lipschutz writes: “Should a minor cancellation fee dilute our commitment and stop us from proclaiming the supremacy of Shabbos over all material considerations?”
Interesting matter to watch with respect to “minor cancellation fees”: Will El Al continue to place advertisements in Yated? Will travel agents advertising in Yated continue to place ads touting El Al’s services and El Al’s logo? Will Yated accept such ads? How minor will the advertising fees lost to ad cancellations be for Yated?
[And let us not single out Yated. Ditto for Hamodia, Jewish Press, Jewish Observer, et cetera.]