6 Responses

1. Ok, now will all those people who claimed that Ein Kerem was hiding something and therefore would not release the kid retract their words?

   If Tel Hashomer finds no evidence of the kid having received chemotherapy will we all accept that he didn’t receive any? or will we all accuse Tel Hashomer of being involved in the cover-up and of also being out to kill the kid and destroy the mother?

   For those who believe that the kid was treated for cancer… let me explain a few things about how hospitals go about diagnosing and treating this disease.

   1) in order to make a diagnosis the hospital will do numerous tests. These tests are carried out by the laboratories of the hospitals and the results are recorded.

   2) the doctors have to suspect that the patient is suffering from a specific type of cancer and then do tests for that type. If there are tumors involved they will do more than just blood tests, if they are looking for leukemia then a blood test will be the first stage followed by bone marrow tests.

   3) no treatment will be given before the tests all come back as positive for the simple reason that you will never give a patient poison (and that is what chemotherapy is) without being sure they need it in order to save their life.

   4) throughout the treatment, before and after each dose of chemo is administered blood tests will be taken to monitor both the progression/regression of the disease (to see if the treatment is having the desired effect) and to monitor the health of the patient. If the patient is not well enough to undergo the course of chemo it will not be administered as it may kill the patient before the cancer itself does.

   5) records of every single test performed on the patient as well as every dose of medication that the patient received are kept.

   It may be that there is a conspiracy here, but you have to consider the following…

   In order for there to be a cover-up there must have been:

   1) a misdiagnosis on multiple tests done by the labs when initially diagnosing.

   2) a initial misdiagnosis by the doctor/ doctors treating the kid in the ward.

   3) every blood test that was taken throughout the many months that the kid was treated which were checked for markers which show the progression/ regression did not pick up even once that the kid did not have cancer and therefore there would not have been any markers in the blood.

   for this to have taken place either the lab did not conduct any tests on the blood samples and just made up results, or the doctors ignored the results and continued treating as if there was no change in the patients well being.

   4) if tumors were found and surgery was needed, then no records of surgury or post-opperative care were kept.

   5) if more agressive treatments such as radiation therapy were used then no recordss of those were kept.

   6) records were not kept by any of the doctors or any of the nursing staff. not those pertaining to daily well bieng, nor those pertaining to medication or proceedures administered. no notes were recorded by the doctors with regard to the progression of the cancer they were treating.

   5) Assuming thet records were kept, there is oversight in every hospital (granted some have greater levels and some have lower levels, but there is always oversight). there are also meetings of the various doctors involved. in addition doctors will consult each other with regards to patients whose treatment regimen is proving difficult.

   if there is a conspiracy here, we have to assume that either the doctors didn’t talk to each other, not even casually for one doctor to ask another how his patient is doing. in addition we have to assume that the department heads either didn’t realize that the patient had been misdiagnosed, the tests misread, and wrong treatment being given… or… that they knew and were complicit.

   6) finally, now that the kid is being transfered, do we assume that all the records of chemotherapy and other treatments have been destroyed? that every blood test result from the last few months has been forged? is that why it took the hospital more than a week to agree to transfer the kid?

   do we think that the doctors at Tel Hashomer will not go through the medical files with a fine-toothed comb?

   In conclusion, it is possible that there is a conspiracy of silence here by the hospital… but in order for that to occur the number of people involved who have to remain silent or lie is astronomical.

   this would include lab staff, doctors, nursing staff, the departments of nuclear medicine and surgery, pharmacy staff, administration, oversight, and many more.

   There are people out there who believe that the World Trade Centre was destroyed by the US govt. they believe that the govt. itself, the CIA, the FBI, the police, the fire dept and numerous other agencies entailing thousands of people are all complicit and worked together in order to pull off an atrocity so that there would be an excuse for invading Afghanistan and Iraq. They believe that thousands of govt. employees conspired to kill 3000 civilians so that haliburton could make more money.

   is that a possibility?

   is it possible that thousands of people here in Israel are conspiring to kill one 7 year old kid and send his mother to a mental asylum?

   It is entirely possible that 19 fanatics planned a suicide mission and hijacked 4 airplanes, flying 3 of them into buildings and crashing the 4th. Believing this narritive entails accepting what the US govt. is declaring, but it is not outside the realm of possibility.

   Think about what accusations you are making and if they are in fact possible.

   It is entirely possible that one mother is suffering from a psychological disorder and has harmed her child. It may not be the case, but as far as the realms of possibility go… it is unfortunately much more likely than the other option.

2. 1. It is not “alleged” that he has been abused, but rather it is debated who did the abuse (the mother or the Hadassah doctors).

   2. A three year old is really a bit old to be a toddler.

   3. If the mother is being denied access to her son, his refusal to cooperate is probably his way of protesting her absence (suggest he does not see her as an abuser, but probably sees the hospital staff as someone he dislikes).

3. A horrible precedent would have been set had the child been moved. The tail does not wag the dog

4. #3- you seem to be from a country whose government is “of the people, by the people, for the people.”

   Israel is the sort of country, common in much of the world, where the government is: of some of the people, by those people, for those people, and to the exclusion of everyone else. Especially for Orthodox Jews raised in America, it is hard to adjust to the idea that in Israel they fill a social position similar to Jews in prewar Europe, or Blacks in America during Jim Crow.

   The hospital has the burden of proof. The woman’s family and community would have not stood behind her had they believed the charges (note: frummies are busy-bodies who love to meddle in other peoples’ business). The child’s medical condition improved only when outside media and the mother’s complaints forced an end to the medical error. The initial press accounts linking the “abuse” to Neturei Karta certainly suggest a “disinformation” campaign of a type that is common in the middle east.

5. #4, you are correct that that the authorities have the burden of proof to establish that the mother abused or neglected the child. The mother has the burden of proof regarding the allegations of medical malpractice, assuming she asserts that as a defense at trial. What you consistently fail to grasp however is that aside from prosecuting the case against the mother, the state has a responsibility to protect the child. Once allegations of abuse are made, a Court has to balance that responsibility against the rights of the accused parent. The right of a child to be protected from potential abuse, and the obligation of the state to provide that protection always wins out over the rights of the accused parent. That’s why this child has been taken from the parents. I see this happen every day in the U.S., and I’m not at all surprised that Israel conducts her affairs the same way. Once the mother’s role (i.e. level of culpability or no culpability) in this is established, an appropriate disposition, one which could result in the ultiamte restoration of full parental rights, can be determined. But at this point, the thinking is that the risk of harm to the child outweighs the rights of the parent.

6. #4. Can you please provide a source for your claims? Is this first hand knowledge or what your head has been filled with by reading Satmar and other Haredi lies and propoganda?

   I live here in Eretz Yisroel, I am Haredi, and I see no evidence whatsoever of what you are saying. I refute based on first hand experince all of what you say. It has not a shred of truth to it. You sound like the Eidah Ro’oh of the meraglim. Being mechadesh fault where none exists. Completely inverting Hashem’s rotzon to be metiv to us b’tachlis haTov as if if His brochos that he constantly showers upon us are the opposite. kefias Tov l’mehadrin. 2000 years we are waiting to live in EY and now finally He has seen to it that can live there. What greater brocho is there? Do you say the brocho of v’so nes l’kabetz galuyoseinu every day? v’LiYerusholayim? v’sechezeno? BTW, the SHechina rests in Klal Yisroel so when WE return tho EY the brocho of Avoda we say 3X a day is in the process of being fulfilled. it is happening and you reject it. you spit in His face. you say go away Shechina, go away, I want MOnsey and food stamps and HUD instead. And Yankees and Mets For Shame. And the icing on the cake is you justify your rejection of Kudsha Brich Hu with frumkeit! “I am not rejecting Kudsha Brich Hu, I am rejecting the apikorsim, the erev rav the frei.” Not only do you reject Kudsha Brich Hu you reject Kudsha Brich Hu’s Am. “Only our little Haredi club is Jewish the tziynim are not Jewish bichlal (sic!).” And Chazal you reject – CHazal say a yid who cholila is chotei – is still a yid. So akuperma – I will grant you that you are still Jewish. even though what you are doing is mamesh vayehi ho’om K’misoninim – zogt Rashi – mevakshim alila. the height of chutzpa.

   It is true that there is room for improvement in Israel’s hospital, police and other gov’t areas but in the us much of the same issuess exists (ever get stuck with some obstinate minority napolean at Maimonides or at any Federal, state, or city bearucrazy who is indifferent your suffering and health and time and effort wasted? I have. Based on my experiences in both Maimonides and Hadassah I think Hadasaah is much better.)
   THe nonsense of govt bearcrazies is non-discriminatory. It is funny how dumbells believe that putting these little napoleans in charge of US healthcare will make life better. (Club Haredim specifically)

   You should refrain from speaking bad about life in Israel. It is such an aveira that is the root of the aveilus of these 3 weeks.