Dear YWN,
The following is a letter I wrote to Rabbi Avi Shafran, spokesman for Agudas Yisrael along with his response.
They were was written last Yom Yerushalayim. Perhaps his response will help bring to light why many communities do not give Yom Yerushalayim Halachic status.
I thought I would share this with YWN.
Yosef Rabin
To the Rabbanim of Agudas Yisrael:
My soul is aching from its very depths.
In 1967 Hashem saved us in a most miraculous way. In His great and awesome mercy, He gave us the strength to decimate four invading armies in six days. Prior to the war our brothers in Eretz Yisrael were busy preparing mass graves because they feared that the four armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq would “Exterminate all the Jews, young and old”. What happened however was a very different outcome! Three days latter ” Our feet were standing within your gates O’ Yerushalayim”! Perhaps this was our closest national experience to when Hashem sent the Malach to kill the entire army of Sancherev in one night.
Which brings to my question. I will ask the question even though I know I will most likely not receive a Halachic based response. I am coming to seek truth, so I respectfully request that I receive a truthful answer. A answer that is based in Halachic and Hashkofic thought. My soul will not suffice with “Our Gedolim said so”. So I implore you to please answer my question: How can G-d fearing communities continue to ignore Yom Yerushalayim?
Although I say Hallel with a Bracha for the great miracle that occurred in 1967, I can understand how others can take a different approach. What I cannot understand is why these G-d fearing communities ignore the day altogether! I have cousins who are in these G-d fearing communities, who do not even know the date on which this day of miracle occurred! How can this be?
If communities will not say Hallel due to Halachic technicalities, then at least acknowledge the day. We learn in Pesachim, that the Neviyim Rishonim decreed that we say Hallel on “Every disaster that does not come upon them”. Rashi comments on this and says, “Like Chanukah”. Was the salvation in 1967 at least as great as the salvation of Chanukah or Purim? After all prior to the salvation of 67 our brothers in Eretz Yisrael were literally preparing their own graves. I have spoken to people in these communities who tell me, “Don’t worry, we are appreciative everyday”. This answer is a very weak one and obviously does not hold any ground. On that logic I could say well I will stop saying Hallel on Chanukah because I am grateful everyday.
If one will not say Hallel, if one will not at least omit the tachanun, then why not at least mark the day in some special way? Why don’t the Yeshivot, schools and shuls hold special drashot to honor the day? Why not perhaps hold a special seudah to honor the day? For those who are still holding Sfira, and thus feel that a seuda would not appropriate, then someone could perhaps make a siyum. Why should one be stricter for sfira than he is for the 9 days?
I strongly request a response from the Rabbanim of these holy communities. This issue bothers my soul to no end! Our entire nation was saved from death, so how can we not show outward signs of gratitude to Hashem? Perhaps the time has come for Kol Beis Yisrael to unite on 28th of Iyar and say, “This is the day Hashem made, let us rejoice and be happy in it”.
Awaiting a response,
Yosef Rabin
Dear Reb Yosef,
I appreciate the pain you feel and commend you for writing to share it and to ask your question. But your statement that your soul will not suffice with Our Gedolim said so is the key to the issue you raise.
The charedi community indeed looks to its Gedolim for direction on any issue of import. Had the guiding lights of the charedi community in EY stressed the singular nature of Yerushalayims capture in 67, we all would, no doubt, have embraced whatever observance they counselled. But they did not, and that is the bottom line for us.
Why they did not can be the subject of our speculation. Perhaps they felt that the Israeli government qua government was inherently suspect and that any attainment effected by it, even a wonderful, seemingly miraculous one, could not be seen as a miracle to celebrate. Perhaps they sensed an atmosphere of cochi viotzem yadi in the achievement. Perhaps they foresaw that the repossession of Yerushalayim would not be permanent, chalilah. Perhaps they feared that a celebration of the day might propagate the idea that we dont need Moshiach, since we can attain what we need to on our own.
Perhaps none of the above, or all of it. But what mattered, and matters, to us charedim is what our rabbinic leaders have to say (or not say). Please try to allow us our convictions in that regard, without feeling pained by them. And may the zechut of that good will help bring the ultimate redemption quickly and in our days.
Again, thank you for writing.
AS
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46 Responses
dear yosef rabin….please learn ‘ al hageulah v’al hatemurah’ by the holy satmar rebbe ztvk’l on this subject. yes, youll say he was a yochud. im not stating you should accept his dass toirah (geon hageonim, ish kadush, but i wont push it on you)the least, it will affect you that its not so pausht. By the way he was far from yochud on the whole shita but as he was such a gadol shbegdolim so he mostly stuck out on the issue and people have this immpression he was a yochud.
Did the Gedolim not give any reason? Is it all down to speculation??
I fully agree with #1. Get Al HaGeulah VeAl HaTemurah (preferably also Vayoel Moshe) and you’ll understand why. Even if you won’t change your position, you’ll hopefully at least be able to understand why we hold this position.
#3 take it easy , why are you so angry…i explicitly said that im pointing out its not so paushut…and about another comment you made …ahem.. im not going to open a pandores box…
To #5: You write, “If i were a christian i would believe in the concept of infallibility”. I can not guess your motivation, but why is it that anytime someone disagrees with gedolei Torah, they toss out the “infallibility” cliche as if they can not come up with a better argument. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion based on gedolim and doing so in no why makes you a christian. Agav, not all christians believe in infallibility. I think it’s a Catholic thing.
#5 your ‘god given ability to use your mind’. but what does a mind consist of? its only a blob of meat..if it was filled with torah and kedusha which is derived from mekomos hadusha thats`what the blob of meat becomes but if it filled with a mishmash of tumah and kedusha thats what it becomes. like a computer which is only a piece of plastic, it all depends what sofware is inserted.
#3 one can know all the torah but “lechaven hilchese lemaseh tzericun siyate deshmayeh’ gemmorah. and for that you need ‘vhureicho beyiras hashem’ in very large measure, especially a subject thats nogaya for klall yisroel,vehamaskil yovin
#3 there were just as many who did not hold that shita. and when refer to gedolim i assume you mean gedolai yisroel not a rav in a shtiebel, i mean like the calibar of reb elchonon wasserman, chofetz chaim, mishnas aharon ztvk’l etc etc
#1, #3 & #5 and all of you are fighting over whether you should say Halel or not. we all should be thankful Hashem everyday for giving us our Gedolim and saving the Kotel as a reminder that Bet Hamikdash will once again be built. During the six day war, I was on the other side. A 10 year old Jew in Egypt and on the first day of the war they took my father to jail because he was Jewish, we lived through the war and we suffered for 4 years and every day I thank Hashem for saving my family from the hands of the Egyptians.
You want to say Halel? say it but say it like you mean it, like you were saved from the hand of an enemy. Thank you Hashem for everything and unit us and bring the Mashiah Bimhera Beyamenu AMEN!
Mr. Rabin,
I say this with all due respect for your opinion and I sincerely would like you to comment after you have done what I will suggest. Listen to the tapes of the shiur that R’ Gifter ZTV”L gave about Yom Ha’atzmaut. It is a purely Halachic commentary and devoid of the emotional rants that have become the general approach to this topic. I could not possibly do justice to the brilliance of that shiur by trying to paraphrase. As I recall, when I listened to it for the first time, questions popped into my head as he was speaking and he eerily answered every one of my questions almost immediately after I thought of them. He addresses most if not all of your points including your comparison to Chanukah. I urge you to listen to it since I am sure it will at least enlighten you as it did me.
P.S. I do not “celebrate” Yom Yerushalayim per se, but I can tell you that the realization of the nissim that HKB”H does for us and especially for our brothers in Eretz Yisrael is present in my mind constantly.
Instead of speculating and leaving us wondering, why can’t Agudas Yisroel ask the gedolim in Eretz Yisroel for an explanation as to what their reasons are for not marking the anniversary of the six day war in any way?
If one is in a dangerous situation and survives, he bentches birkas hagomel. In many cases he is also advised to make a seudas hodo’o. I know of more than one person or family who have been told by poskim to make a seudas hodo’o every year on the anniversary of the date when they were saved from tragedy. The purpose of the seudas hodo’o is to recount what happened and praise Hashem for the miracles he did for us. If that is the case for an individual, shouldn’t it al achas kamma v’kamma be the case for all of bnei yisrael in eretz yisrael? Even if they don’t want to make a yom tov out of it, shouldn’t they at least set aside some time in all the yeshivas to tell over the story of the events of those days and the nisim that Hashem did for us?
One of the reasons that those who say hallel do so is precisely because they feel a need to counter what they hear from the chilonim, including some of the army generals, which is, in effect, “kochi v’otzem yodi oso li es hachayil hazeh”. We need to respond and proclaim: “Yisroel b’tach bashem, ezram umaginam hu”.
Yasher koachim to shimen and daniel breslauer for explaining gedolei yisroel’s position on this issue.
There were hundreds of haredi (black hat) Jews dancing at the Kotel last night on Yom Yerushalayim! One of the reasons for the celebration of Tu B’Av is because Hoshea removed the barriers which prevented Jews from being “oleh l’regel” from the Northern Kingdom to Yerushalayim. Precedence was set already that anything which allows Jews to come to Yerushalayim is a reason to celebrate. Especially since it’s after Sefira for most people. One doesn’t have to say Hallel, but at least don’t say Tachanun.
Yosef Rabin – To establish a Yom Tov requires a decree from the Sanhedrin, not just a nais. Take, for example, the incident you mentioned with Sancherev. It was an incredible nais, yet there is no Yom Tov for it. And seeing as today we unfortunately do not have a Sanhedrin, a new Yom Tov cannot be established.
And while I agree with you that one should be makor tov to Hashem on this day, the original minhag to ignore Yom HuAtzmut / Yom Yerushalayim was started, I believe, by a fear that any endorsement of the state of Israel could be taken as legitimizing the secularism that Israel then represented.
#1 and #3 – There are great gedolim on either side of this issue. Follow your rov’s psak, and let your others follow theirs.
#5 – The concept of infallibility isn’t christian, it’s jewish. As Rabbi Dessler writes in a reply to someone who apparently wrote him a letter saying that the Gedolim should have done more to encourage people to move before the Holocaust: “…It is forbidden even to listen to words like these, let alone to say them. Were it not that I understand that you must have picked up these ideas from people who call themselves benei-torah but reject their teachers and desecrate God’s name, I would not have replied to you at all. But… bearing in mind our close freindship, I have resolved to turn night into day and give you a clear reply.” (Quoted from “Strive for Truth”, the english translation of the Michtav Me’Eliyahu, vol. 1, “On Faith in the Sages”, pg. 217)
Yes, Hashem has given us brains, but he has also given us a chiyuv to follow the psak of the Gedolim. We must follow Da’as Torah, even if they tell us that right is left and left is right. Hashem gave us brains, but He gives the Rabbonim the answers.
#7 – All #4 said is where the reason he does what he does can be found. Your sarcasm was really not called for.
“I doubt you would ever spend a second reading a pro Israel sefer… correct me and prove that you also have a mutual respect for other valid opinions. Because I am afraid that you do not.” Don’t you think that’s overreacting? And what happened to being dan li’kav zechus?
I have no doubt the answer by Rabbi Shafran was done with some or all of the Moetzes.
The writer self incriminated himself by stating, “My soul will not suffice with “Our Gedolim said so.” It was clear from that, that he wasnt really interested in what the gedolim had to say.
I would like to remind the writer that regardless of what happened that day, we will say at least three times a day brochos of “Bonai Yerushalayim” and “Es Tzemach Dovid.” To me – and I am not a posek – this shows me that the nes that occured some 40 years ago was not the end result rather it was as one rov told me, similar to a nice slice of pie where we would yearn for more.
We should IYH be zoche to really see the capturing of the ENTIRE Yerushalayim, the rebuilding of the ENTIRE Yerushalayim, and the Bais HaMikdosh Bimahyra B’Yamaynu Amayn!
azi [3],
Where are the “hundreds” or even “tens” of “Gedolim” who celebrate the Medinah?
And the biggest question of all, if there are so many Gedolim on that side where are their folowers? the fact is the religious nationalists in E”Y do not governe their positions by their Rabbinical leaders. The Rabbonim are just there as a plaque on the wall. Ekm”l with examples.
It’s only the “kshei Oref” midah in the Jew that could still think as of today that the Medinah is a couse for celebration. By now it’s as clear “as chicken soup without lokshun”…
azi [3],
Yes, I have read many of both side of the library, and no, there’s NO comparison. Those who advocate the celebration are emotional, shallow and short sited in comparison.
Of course, there’s nothing blatantly wrong with thanking annually for a communal miracle, and if one started as such he mite not be allowed to stop. The problem is, those who say Hallel do not do so as for a technical miracle that saved lives, but as a NATIONAL celebration for returning to the land of Israel – Aschalta D’geulah. That was not seen as such by the overwhelming majority of Torah sages, for obvious reasons.
Now, if you feel a need to celebrate – that’s one thing, but don’t go around wondering in pain why others don’t.
The Steipler Zt”l in his great wisdom and foresight cried when Har Habayis was “liberated” and explained that it was because he feared yidden would go atop it and be oiver on an Issur Karais! Aizehu Chacham Haroeh Es Hanolad
As for the Mizrachi Rabonim. I think they are only listened to when they say what their Tzibbur wished to hear. Take Giyus Banos for example. Both Rabonim Roshiyim assered it but that didn’t stop the Mafdal from voting for it. I highly doubt if today they would declare it ossur to live in the settlements that their tzibbur would follow. I tend to believe they would find alternate “Rabbonim” to follow.
Poshuter Yid [15],
It’s very easy to coat yourself as a Tzadik and Oheiv Yisroel, but your falsehood is more than ‘in between the lines’.
You write in the spirit of: The Agudah “inability” to recognize the Medinah, and it’s “inability” to “see the good”… is rooted in bitter “feelings”, “like a five year old fighting”. The Steipeler Gaon, the Chazon Ish, the Gerrer Rebbes etc. etc. are like five year olds? are you crazy?
And then you preach tolerance, when you yourself are incapable of accepting such a logical approach as a valid scholarly opinion.
And you say Chanukah did not last forever??? indeed Poshut you are. Your ability now to talk and debate a Torah subject, and open a Sefer, is all due to the Chashmona’im. [P.S. not every “Rav Rashy” necessarily ‘celebrated’ the Medinah. That is well known].
And how is this bygones? there’s no contradiction between ahavas Yisroel and maintaining a Torah Position. Just because you insist on being Poshut and shallow doesn’t mean you should rebuke those who are able to maintain both values. Come on! think a little, are you saying any one who still doesn’t say Hallel is a Baal Machlokes? and maybe any one who DOES say is one?! what do want? You want people to just “do whatever” without thinking? that’s the meaning of Ahavas Yisroel?
I truly love every Jew, but I hate shallowness itself.
Poshuter Yid [15],
I just got to read your other part about Agudah and Gedolim cards. Yes, I agree there are many Gedolim who ‘didn’t make it’ and are true valid Chachomim. And yes, if someone treats a different opinion as “Not a Gadol”, “Koifer” etc. he isn’t a Oheiv Yisroel.
However, you took it so far that you are again guilty of the same exact thing. You say the Gedolim of the Agudah (which is not Gadlus to sneeze at) are themselves just good ‘PR’ists, who don’t know this simple Ahavas Yisroel that you do. You don’t give them the right to stand by their opinion.
The Gemara never said there shouldn’t be Machlokes in Torah, and there’s a concept of Achrei Rabim Lehatos. Of course today we don’t Pasken exclusively like the Rabim, but there still is such a concept for someone who doesn’t have a Rebbe.
And although a lot of Gedolim aren’t on the ‘cards’, I have no doubt that there’s a Yad Hashem involved in which Gadol becomes popular etc. surely Hashem sees fit to further one opinion in accordance to the generation.
Bottom line: it’s fine to validate other opinions, but it’s terrible that every time someone wishes to maintain a stand you see it as a contradiction to Ahavas Yisroel. It’s not in line with our history and it isn’t good for our Hashkafa, and look what that brought you to do – to insult and degrade Gedolei Olam (as I demonstrated in my previous post).
To whome it may concerne: when I wrote: “It’s only the “kshei Oref” midah in the Jew that could still think as of today that the Medinah is a couse for celebration. By now it’s as clear “as chicken soup without lokshun”… ” I didnt mean to include any one who celebrates as his father or Rebbi did. I meant only those who do it with Gusto, looking down at those who don’t.
Yom Yerushalayim sameach from Yerushalayim Ir Hakodesh.
#18 I don’t believe a Yom Tov has been declared by anybody just a day to give shevach vehodaah to Hashem for the nes galuei that happened during the six day war and to thank him for the huge zechut of being to be able to go to the Kotel to daven when ever we want. There is more Torah learning in Yerushalayim today than ever before. Look at the efforts of the previous dorot just to come to EY and we BH have it on a plate.
I refer you to one of the last halachos in the Chayei Adam where he talks about making a personal Purim every year for the nissim that happened to him. Why can’t we say Hodo Lashem ki Tov for the nissim he has given us. In my few it is basic hakarat hatov.
Obviously we need to keep things in perspective at appreciate that we are still in galus and desperately need the Moshiach but lets at least thank Hashem for the chesed he has done for us.
These are among the most significant events that have happened to Am yisarel over the last 2000 years how can we ignore them as if they never happenned.
In addition it is encumbant upon us to have hakaras hatov for the soldiers who gave their lives and lehavdil ben hayim lehayim risked their lives so we can once agin wonder through the streets of ir hakodesh.
# 20 – please try not to be mosei shem ra about a whole community . As a proud memeber of the camp you refer to I can assure you that your claim is false regarding large proportion of the kehila .
18: Sancheirev’s army was wiped out on Seder night, so it was already yomtov. We say it in the hagada. So how do you know it wouldn’t have merited a new holiday had it not already happened on one?
While I don’t celebrate Yom Ha’atzmaut, I cannot ignore Yom Yerushalyim, b/c this day has nothing to do with Zionism. HKB”H performed an outright miracle for us, without which there is no Kosel, no no Har HaZeisim, no Yeshivos and seminaries in Yerushalyim, nothing! The Rambam made a seuda every year on the anniversary of the day on which he reached Yerushalayim. No, it’s not rebuilt, so we don’t have yomtov, or maybe not hallel either, but we should at least omit tachanun, or do something to remind ourselves of this awesome miracle.
The only way to veer from error and to maintain the continuity of the mesorah is if you do whatever your rebbi says. That is why everyone must have an active (living) madrich who can guide him/her through troubling times as well as happy ones. If a person thinks he can navigate this world without the guidance of a Torah-oriented leader, he is under false pretenses and significantly disadvantaged. (See mesilas yesharim, the end of the 3rd perek). This world and its ubiquitous challenges and choices requires both reason and erudition to leed him; which can only be found from the aegis of a sagacious and learned entity. This person must have spent significant time recieving the message of Torah from his mentor and is thereby qualified to perpetuate this ‘method’ in turn.
In Short: Do what your rebbi says and avoid confrontation.
When you get to Shamayim, all they will ask you is, “Did you do what your rebbi said”?! if the answer is in the negative, than be prepared for serious disappointment.
For those who truly want to understand the stance of the Gedolim (and not just attack chareidim)I suggest they study the following quote from the Chazon Ish. (Possibly someone would trasalate it for the beinifit of those that don’t follow the hebrew).
חזון איש קובץ אגרות חלק א’ סי’ צ”ז
“עניני ההלכה קבועים הם על פי התורה שעיקרן בכתב ופירושן בתורה שבעל פה, ואף הנביא אין רשאי לחדש עד שמצאו להן סמך בתורה, וכשם שהגרעון בכלל נליזה מהתורה, כך ההוספה על מצות התורה נליזה מהתורה… וההצעה להכנס ולקבוע ולעשות לגזור ולקיים, היא כהקלת ראש חס ושלום ביסוד ההלכה, וראוי להסירה מעל הפרק בטרם הועלתה… ומה שיש בידינו הוא מזמן שהיתה עדיין נבואה, ואיך נעיז פנינו, דור שטוב לו השתיקה, להרהר כזאת לקבוע דברים לדורות? … אל נא נעבור לגדולות ממנו” וכו’
It is a huge miracle that we have Yerushalayim in our hands today and it should be celebrated. No Jew would be safe anywhere in Israel today if the Jordanians ruled Jerusalem from every point of view, politically, militarily, strategically, etc…Now with Obama poised to suggest handing over Yerushalayim to the UN, we will perhaps truly understand the implications and appreciate what we have bechasdei Hashem.
Hendon Adass, a charaidi shul in London, has one minyan instead of its usual 4 and says a quasi Hallel before Aleinu and has a reception after davening.
As Avi Shafran himself knows, the rulings of Maran and our other gedolim in EY are the “third rail” in US charedi politics.
Just like on the subway tracks, whoever touches it is in big trouble.
This is not just in holidays of the Zionists. Also in tznius, in concerts, in wigs, in all kinds of things that touch our lives personally, the charedim, or people that want to be that, in the US are often quite at odds with our great leaders.
Which is a big shame.
This third rail gets avoided all the time by all the charedi news organizations. They are smart…
I’d like to share a thought that I had.
42 years ago today, 28 Iyar 5727, Hashem with his infinite kindness and wondrous NEESIM gave us the Kosel and the old city of Yerushalayim. While there are many who celebrate this day as a proper holiday with Hallel, I would like to suggest something that we all can do.
Most of us have been to Yerushalayim and have felt the indescribable excitement we have walking her streets and almost magnetic pull that our Neshamos have towards the Kosel HaMaaravi as we approach it EACH time we go. I am sure that these emotions have been experienced by everyone and do not grow dull or dim no matter how often you make it to Yerushalayim.
I would like to suggest that it is incumbent on all who have shared this feeling to send a message of Hakoras Hatov to Hashem sometime today in our Tfillos. This is not about Zionism or anything political.
It is simply Hakoras Hatov, with no one knowing besides you and Hashem.
Imagine the impression it would make in Shamayim if hundreds of thousands of people stopped during their Tfillos to remind our Creator how thankful we are.
Perhaps we would merit to see the Geulah and find out what the last 70 tumultuous years of our history were really about.
If you agree with these thoughts, please forward to your friends and family
to 36,
you write “It is pretty clear to me that anyone who actually lived in Eretz Yisroel at that time (and in 1948 too) should say hallel”.
On Purim we were clearly saved from death, NATIONALLY, and yet we don’t say Hallel. One of the reasons is since we’re still subjected to the Goyim, as the Gemmara says (Chanukah is different since it was a spiritual solvation, not from death to life).
So although it’s appropriate to annually thank Hashem, it doesn’t mean we should sit in Chazal’s chair and say Hallel.
today is shmual hanavi’s yurziet
he was the one that gave yerushalayim its name
(heard a shiur from rav shlomo fisher shlita yerushalayim)
rabbiofberlin [36]
1. Yes, you may follow which ever Rav or Chacham that you feel connected to, but don’t go around “wondering” and “pained” about those who are following the MAJORITY.
2. Applying ‘Daas Torah’ to daily living is not at all a 20th century invention. Of course those who don’t use their Seichel will get no where and will go wrong despite the Daas Torah, but here you have: a) not a daily matter but a national one, b) this is not some Rosh Yeshiva one picked to ask, this is the overwhelming MAJORITY of very very great gedolim, so maybe ask yourself are you maybe missing some of the facts on the ground and behind the scenes of what this is all about?
3. What I said about the religious nationalists not following the Rabbonim, I did not mean OUR Rabonim, I meant THEIRS. They never followed Rav Kook when he said to announce that a Hesder Yeshiva should not be a first choice, and otherwise it’s Bitul Torah. They never followed their Rabbonim about sacrificing lives for an inch of Eretz Yisroel, and many many other matters. Their Rabbonim govern them in a very limited way if you know anything about Israeli politics.
Having said all that, I do know and love many sincere Yidden who just feel the need to genuinely thank Hashem on this day. There are not many of those, usually those saying Hallel are the same people lax in many areas of Hallacha, but there’s a few of sincere ones as well. I know they don’t know much about the foundation of Zionism, I feel they are wrong, but I respect there sincere Kavana.
#37 because a word he that he uses give him away, and also i didnt say nobody holds different #12..where in my post #1 did you interpet i’m fighting ..i made a plain innocent statement and everybody (from that side)comes with attacks but for the answer why they attck, see another post (if YWN will post it)
Moderators Response: No. YWN will not post it. HINTS: Don’t call anyone a “shaygitz”, and #2-please use a spell check, so that your comment will have a semi-normal and half-legible appearance.
Thanks.
We already have a prayer in our daily Shemona Esrai. It’s entitled “Modim anachNu Luch.”
We are not authorized to make new Yomim Tovim today.
#46
Shekker v’kazav we most definately are permitted to make new y”t
Poshute Yid again shows his true colors, the big Ohev Yisroel is puting words in Shafran ‘s mouth which he never said. He never said there aren’t any other Gedolim, all he said was “the Gedolim” the asker was talking about feel such and such…
We agree the frum world is not as ideal as it should be, but to say that therefor so many treamendous Gedolim from the previous generation were all wrong is Atzas Hayeitzaer, and very foolish indeed..
One thing is sure: The Ahavas Yisroel you always preach is very transparent. It just isn’t it.
#15 – “The Aibershter gave every yid the ability to choose who he considers his rebbe.” “The chareidi camp is great at their PR in which they claim that those they hold from are gedolim, and simply are not goreis anybody else.” Aren’t they just choosing their rebbeim?
#21 – Are you calling Rav Kook “emotional, shallow and short sited”?!
#36 – The Gemera asks why we don’t say Hallel beecause Mordechai and the Sanhedrin of the time declared a Yom Tov. And I wasn’t talking about thos who were there at the time, who of course can / should make a personal Yom Tov.
#47 – If you are going to call what somebody says “Shekker v’kazav” at least bring a source.
#47 and where is it written so?
It is difficult to believe the poster posting under the pious name Pashuteh Yid is a practicing Jew, considering some of the attacks this nobody makes against numerous Gedolei Yisroel ztv’l.
#54 thats what i and plenty other posters have pointed out many times since he’s been posting here and other torah news sites last two years.. then hides behind ‘ahvas yisroel , moitze shem rah, hate , chasing away abig part of yidden etc etc’ . and who agrees with him like minded like azi, rob , etc ‘lo bechinom hulach hazarzir eitzel hoirev ala mipnei shehu mino’ yeh,yeh, now ‘ll hear it ‘hate , chasing away,we have to go with ahave etc, etc’
#22 no. 1)its not A gadol , no 2) yes, if the tzddikum that you follow in their ways dont do it then you are not one to do your own thing.
#31 can you name one of the ‘gedolim’ you are referring who ‘didnt have the guts’ so we can have an idea whom mr ‘only emes’ verses ‘that godal’ is comparing himself to , so that he has the authority to say ‘the gadol didnt have the guts’?
My dear friends,
It seems many people are not familiar with how we establish Yemi Tovim in Halacha. I am also shocked that people would call the establishment of Yom Yerushalayim “shallow”. I think once people understand the Halachic background they will see that it is not shallow at all. Also people are wondering which major Gedolim of the past and present allow for Hallel.
First I will name just a few: HaRav Shalom Messas, HaRav Ovadya Yosef, HaRav Mordechai Eliyahu, HaRav Avraham Shapira, HaRav Shlomo Goren, Harav David Shalush, HaRav Yaakov Ariel, HaRav Eliyahu Rachamim,Harav Shlomo Ben Chamo,HaRav Tzvi Yehuda Kook, HaRav Yehuda Ashkanazo, HaRav Dov Lior, HaRav Shlomo Aviner and the list goes on.
Secondly now I will give a little insight into how we can establish a day of Hallel.
First we must understand that the takana was established by the Nevi’em rishonim, please see Pesachim 117a. The Gemara states we say Hallel on “every major event, on every calamity that does not befall us, and when they are redeemed they say it on their redemption. Rashi there says, “Like Chanukah. Now we see from here that when we say Hallel for the Neis of Chanukah it is actually an implementation of the original takana of the Neviem Rishonim and not of the chachamim of that generation. Seemingly our chachamim can also implement this takana. Also in Migilat Taanit in ch. 9 states that we learn from our Hallel on Chanukah that we must say hallel on every salvation for all time. Also in Shemos Rabah that this Takana stands for all generations.
Rav Achya Goan also wrote that we are obligated in Hallel on salvation’s similar to chanukah. It should be noted that the Nitziv hold that the saying of Hallel for a salvation is a Torah obligation at the time of salvation and a D’rabanan every generation afterwards.
Going back to the story of Sancherev, we learn in Sanhedrin 94a that Chizkiyahu did not merit to be Mashiach because he did not sign hallel over that miracle.
I am just touching on the very surface of this issue, however it is very clear even from this scratching of the surface that there is great merit to those who say hallel.
So I will maintain that the Rabbanim from the other side, must give clear reasoning and not “speculation”. If I have one gadol who gives me clear reasoning and another who will not, I will follow the one who gives clear reasoning.
#60 says “I want to apologize to all if my tone of voice was disrespectful in this thread.”
You have been very disrespectful in your comments against Maranon V’Rabbonim & Gedolei Yisroel shlitta, as well as against ordinary Torah observant Jews on all threads, for several years over here.
#62: In the past you’ve advocated recognizing the reform movement as legitimate so we eliminate “the terrible schism and polarization in our nation”.
This is all part and parcel of your viewpoint.
#62 if not for the ‘schism and polarization’ we had against cetain movements in our history judaism wouldnd exist any more (EG: ‘the teilung’)