According to Israeli media sources, a fire broke out on Wednesday evening at Israel’s first crematorium. The crematorium was opened just a few months ago (as was reported HERE on YW), and is located in the community of Chibat Tzion. It’s location had remained a secret – until yesterday; when a Frum newspaper printed its location.
Firefighters arriving on the scene reported heavy flames – which were extinguished – and no injuries were reported. According to Ynet, there were signs of forced entry, and it is believed that the fire was not accidental. Haaretz is reporting that the building sustained major damage.
Six months ago, ZAKA Chairman Yehuda Meshi Zahav, filed a complaint with Israel Police claiming that they carried out activities that are in violation of Israeli law and operated without a necessary permit from the Health Ministry.
After hearing of the fire, Meshi Zahav, who visited the crematorium on Tuesday, told Ynet that he “blesses the person who (set the crematorium on fire)”, adding that ZAKA has been fighting against the cremation of Jewish people’s bodies all over the world and that it was “inconceivable that this custom exists in Israel”.
Meshi Zahav also told Haaretz “We saw the desecration there. The structure is located between two chicken coops. There were sheets soaked in blood and the ashes thrown in the garbage bin. The place was destined to burn, and it was burned.”
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47 Responses
More khareidi vandalism and khillel hashem, what else is new.
I think Chillul Hashem means going against G-D’s word!!!!
So a crematorium in Israel is a kiddush haShem? Are you sure you were frum once?
Dear Oncefrum,
Whgile I despise chareidi violence of any kind, why do you not comment on the fact that these people were cremating Jewish bodies?!
i guess cremating Jewish bodies isn’t a “khillel hashem”! “what else is new”
Charaidi vandalism? Maybe it was and maybe it wasn’t… who’s to say who did the job? Perhaps… just perhaps it was a chiloni grandchild of someone who’s entire family was placed in an identical cremetorioum back in Germany… maybe it conjers up a terrible image in more than just the frum world… Jews being burned is an old story, very old…
Oncefrum – learn how to spell! And please keep your anti-semitism to yourself
No good will come from this. Nothing is accomplished. The guy can just reopen his store somewhere else. Hide the location. All this does is serve as a chillul hashem. The Zaka chairmans comments only leave a mark on Frum Yiddien.
If they want to close it down they need to either seek legal venues (through the courts) or conduct peaceful protests and inform the public of the business horrible and un G-dly actions.
When are people going to stand up and condemn this!
EDITOR: I am surprised that a person such as yourself, who is so careful about lashon hara, as we see from the Bungalow column and comments, would print comment #1 “More khareidi vandalism and khillel hashem, what else is new.”. This is also clear and cut lashon Hara about the tzibor.
I fully commend the brave individual or individuals who committed this righteous act. I am certain that they made sure that not one person would be physically harmed in the process. I’m sorry, a crematoria for Yidden in Eretz HaKodesh is affront and desecration worse than any shopping mall open on Shabbos or a Jewish-run pig farm. This was really crossing the line. So, no. This was not a Chilul Hashem. If anything, it was an immense Kiddush Hashem.
oncefrum – I suppose people like you say that Pinchos was a murderer for killing two people having random intercourse, and yet WE know that it was the greatest Kiddush Hashem.
Kiddush Hashem means doing Hashems will even if it means sacrificing yourself for it.
Letting a crematorium operate in Eretz yisroel is a Chilul Hashem and an abomination. Kol Hakavod to the Tzadik/im who was Mekadesh shem shomayim by burning down the place.
OnceFrum,
There are certain absolutes in Khillul Hashem.
G-d’s image deserves respect too. What are your feelings about desecrating a Nazi shrine? Obviously these feelings are dependent upon your values.
TO ONCEFRUM:
This has nothing to do with Chareidi or not this is HALACHA. Do teshuvah now and G-D willing u may never be Cremated
Kol HaKavod to the the person who did this!
Afraid the photo is misleading, as that is a Holocaust cremotorium…nebach that in Israel we have people doing to their loved ones what the Germans ym”sh did to us.
Oncefrum(nebech) where in the article does it state that a chareidi started the fire or is this another classic case of ignorrantly lashing out against chareidim witout any proof whatsoever for your false accusation.
I would love to hear da’as torah on this. True it is an issur chamur but does that give one the right set the building ablaze? The Torah does not condone criminal activity. I believe there could have been a civilized way to shut down such a place.
Sir Gold – who decides what is “criminal”? If truth and criminality is subjective, than Torah would be irrelevant. Torah means there is criminality in burning bodies, because there is only one objective truth. Once frum: we would have to wipe out the Chanukah story, because it was probably a horrible Chillul Hashem that the fanatic frum rebelled against the enlightened Hellenists, no? And A. Gold – there are countless tales of kanaim in the Torah – and none of them were considered “criminal” such as the Tanaah who had to pay a woman for the red garment he tore, mistakenly thinking she was Jewish.
To Mr. Gold (post# 18),
The real criminals here are the ones blatantly desecrating the dead. In ALL of human history, and amongst ALL nations (especially the Jews), the law for the treatment of the dead is sacrosanct and comes before anything else. Here, in a so-called JEWISH country, there existed a business whose sole function was the desecration of the dead. This crematoria was in violation of the law, not the Tzaddik who destroyed it. The laws of the zionists are not the laws of the land. Torah is the law of the land. I don’t care whether ignorant (or spiteful) Jews desired to be cremated. A fool’s desire does not trump Hashem’s desire. A fundamental tenent of Judaism is that our body is not ours to do what we want with it. That concept is a completely goyish, modern idea that is used to justify abortion and other abominations that the liberal maniacs tout as “human rights”.
16. I suspect our esteemed editor selected the photo with great deliberation, to make the point made in post #6.
Hashem yerachem.
Chaim Cohen and Ari Gold – Obviously you are ignorant to the way things work in Eretz Yisroel.
No legal venues or peaceful protests would have closed down the place. When it comes to Yiddishkeit every thing is a struggle by the Tziyonim. The more disgraceful the act against the Torah the more powerfully they promote it, all in the name of human rights, democracy and so on.
Whoever did this saved much tumel and heartache for the Toiradika world by doing a swift clean job.
Ashrei Chelkoi
One man’s freedom fighter…
For those who believe that there is nothing wrong with breaking the law of the land to impose your particular religious beliefs on someone else, the slope is a slippery one.
I don’t think many of the above posters would think it’s ok for some other religion (or some branch of Judaism) to break laws in order to impose their beliefs on us.
Having said that, I have no idea what started the fire, and am commenting in the abstract.
arigold
cant tell you about this case…..
but i heard Rabbi Avigdor Miller ztz”l answer a question about the yeshiva bochrim who burned down a p*rn shop (i dont recall where this occurred or other circumstances, i believe it was a well known case) but whatever it was, he called them HEROES.
Ok…I never thought a simple comment would provoke such strong sentiments, but ok…
1)YW has been posting many stories lately about khareidim holding (un)peaceful demonstrations, committing vandalism, and other contemporary crimes, all because they didn’t agree with the irreligious premises. It is pretty safe to assume that similar parties were behind the probable arson of the crematorium.
Also, I think it’s pretty obvious that I differ from most people here in thinking that cremation AFTER one’s natural death is perfectly acceptable.
But that’s not really the discussion here.
And #9: My comment was not really what you purport it to be, it is not like those other location-specific, name-specific stories that YW posted and other people have commented on; I merely stated a very general assumption.
Finally, #7 – after rereading my post I failed to find any English words misspelled – as for ‘khareidim’ and ‘khillel’ the KH is the correct way to produce the sound found at the beginning of the words when said in hebrew…not CH as is commonly thought.
Cheers
Do people really feel here that violence is the answer? Do you think this sets a good example for our children? G-d forbid am I defending this monstrous business. But on the other hand, if we act like this we lose in the end.
Violence is not the answer. We live in different times. We are in Galus and the fact that we can live in Eretz Yisroel is a matana from the Aibesther. We can’t enforce things by force here. We don’t have a Sandhedrin, we don’t have a Beis Hamikdash, we are on Galus.
We don’t have the right to physically harm people or commit vandalous acts. We are supposed to be above this. That is the chillul hashem. The chillul is that we are condoning violent acts in an attempt to enforce Torah Mitzvos.
Whats next? Chopping off hands if someone steals? Thats an avairah too. If you catch someone being mechalal shabbos will you kill them?
This is mob justice. We have to be better then this. There are others ways to fight the existence of such businesses.
once frum –
sorry, being not frum did not educate you. Ch would be correct. Kh is used to illustrate pronunciation of the CHES sound for russian language. In other languages CH is perfectly usable – such as in German and in a brogue – you know like as in Loch Ness.
#23 – are we forgetting that there was a claim that Israel was a JEWISH (not another religious/religion/nationality state). We are not talking about protesting cremation here in the USA.
Crematorium was for the arabs not the jews!!
oncefrum – GET OFF THIS SITE. WE DON’T NEED APIKORSIM LIKE YOU MAKING COMMENTS ON A FRUM WEBSITE GEARED TO TOIREDIKE YIDDEN. LEAVE US ALONE AND COME BACK WHEN YOU DECIDE TO DO TESHUVAH.
May many more such Kiddush Hashem’s grace the holy land!
#26 “violence is not the answer” – that is a secular line. chopping off the hand for stealing – that was never a jewish thing. putting someone to death for chillul shabbos is still not allowed – as even with bais din there needed to be aydim and hasra’ah. So your scenarios don’t work.
That doesn’t mean we allow injustice to wreak havoc without an emphatic response. There have been countless ocassions within Jewish history where people have taken what seemed to outsiders as outrageously radical actions to protest horrors of the same ilk as the cremation of Jews in Israel. In fact, one of my favorite stories involves Reb Amos Bunim, of blessed memory, who once picked up a rock and told a Jewish communal leader who was not letting Holocaust victims escape by blocking visas to other countries for them: ‘I will throw this rock through your window and you will call police, and when the press and police ask me, ‘Mr. Bunim, why did you throw a rock through a window”, sir, I will tell them WHY!’
OnceFrum->
Opinions are not what matter. Halacha matters – and Kovad Hamais requires burial. This is NOT up for discussion.
One must suspect the motivation here, frequently there is nothing crummer than a frummer zach. See Chazon Ish, Emunah V’Bitachon Perek 2 & 3.
feivel –
Your story is pretty insightful. But as some other posters noted…
Where do we draw the line?
Should every bus stop with immodest images be vandalized? Did we not see a letter singed by the gedolim just a few weeks ago banning violence at those infamous (albeit fun to watch) “hafganot” protesting various infractions against halacha?
I cannot imagine gedolim endorsing vigilante judaism.
Next up should be the mosque on the Har Habayis.
What’s the definition of a חילול השם?? If the place wasn’t burned and Jews would continue to burn yiddisheh bodies, – that would be a tremendous chilul hashem. Yaashar Koach to the person who was mekadesh hashem.
Grose: R’ Amos Bunim is alive and weel in Lawrence NY. I’m sure that you meant Irving Bunim, OB”M
# 27 – There is no sound that is used in pronunciation of English words that sounds like ‘KH’ – as in ‘KHareidi’ as it sounds in Hebrew. Writing it as ‘CHareidi’ would warrant the pronunciation of the ‘CH’ sounding like the CH in ‘CHair’, or ‘CHampion’.
“where do we draw the line”
very important and difficult question…..
nevertheless the line must be drawn.
it is demanded by our Father in Shmayim
My great-parents died in a crematoria in Aushwitz – HY”D.
Do we need the zionists putting Meisim in them in Artzaynu Hakedosha?
once frum:
Do you know that if a person is cremated, al pi halacha you are not allowed to sit shiva, say kaddish or do any other aveilus on him?!?!?!?!
and if you do know, and you still have the same opinion on cremation, then please find another site to blog on!! and “editor” please remove a non frum blogger from our site!!
V’hu rachum yechaper avon!
Are you allowed to sit shivah for someone if you know that they will be cremated afterwards, as per their Tzevooeh?
Did anyone ask a sh’ailah if you may treat ANY Jew — and one you have neither met nor know anything about no less — with the blatant and baseless hatred so many of you have shown oncefrum?
You cannot carry out a will requesting cremation.
Ok let’s just say hypothetically, if someone wrote in a tzevooeh that a goy should cremate his body after the jewish relatives sit shivah…would one be allowed to sit shivah knowing what will happen?
There seems to be a very serious lack of understanding on the part of many readers here what it means to be a Jew. The following of the Torah is required it is not optional. Presently, the halacha is: A person is required to give between a tenth and a fifth of his wealth for tzedekah. However, he is required to give away his entire wealth, every last cent, in order not to transgress on one negative commandment. That is halacha l’ma’aseh in Rambam and shulchan orech. Li’osid lavo that means putting a man to death for smoking a cigarette if he was properly warned in front of witnesses. While that may seem extreme, G-d is an extremist. We are required to be the Taliban. Get used to it. People that violate Hashem’s law, whether from spite or just ignorance should pain us. Whether it is the sale of steak lavan in Yerushalyim, or the desecration of kvarim on kvish shesh, or Jewish girls that walk Allenby street in Tel Aviv, if a Jew is a servant of Hashem, such things should pain him. If he is moved to action in violation of liberal, western, Hellenistic, Goyish laws that were put in place by Atheistic, assimilated, anti-religious Jews in Israel, I salute him.
It should automatically be assumed that ANY acts of so called charedi violence, except perhaps “old style” Mea Shearim hooliganism, is the work of ShaBaK or ShaBaK provocateurs who rile up marginal wannabes on the fringes of the community.
To #1 (OnceFrum):
You’re going about this the wrong way. True that it may just be another case of Khareidi vandalism and it may even be a Khilel hashem, but that’s not the proper perspective. It shouldn’t matter to us whether it is a Khilel hashem or not. What should matter is whether it was a moral act or not. Many times a necessary moral act is a khilel hashem. It all depends on how you define a khilel hashem. Literally, it means Desecration of The Name (of God; probably the one spelled YeHoVaH). What desecrates his name is up for debate. But since orthodox Jews are the ones that seem to claim expertise in this character’s chararcter, I say we leave it to them to decide what desecrates his name. Much in the same way that we should allow the artists at (the evil corporation,)Disney decide what Mickey Mouse’s “character” is like.
What we should not leave up to them is the definition morality. That would irresponsible of us. Morality is far too important to leave up to a group of people that live in a fantasy world where the myriad of evidence that the world is many many many times older than 5767 years old is just a series of thousands of mistakes, or worse, outright deception (Either by those evil scientists, who do exist. Or, on part of the Malakh Hamoves, Hashem Yerakhem!)
All that said it is clear, at least to those of us that do follow the noble tradition of rationalism since we are not beheimes and we do have beautifully capable brains, that burning someone else’s property just because they’re violating a law that is in your non-evidenced, non-justified, book, is IMMORAL. End of story. (Or rather, do debate, but it seems pretty clear cut.)