55 Responses

1. Far be it for me to question the ‘Eideh Achreidus'( Reb Tuviah Weiss, former dayan in Antwerp now on the Vaad Harabonim there), but is it so simple to say theY will NOT be acquitted of their transgressions in Bais Din Shel MAALOH? I mean dont we say ‘ad yom moisoh tichakeh lo’? EVERY JEW has a chance to do teshuvah…

   And is it so simple to curse a Jew?

2. Didn’t the parliament pass a law the other day effectively allowing the city to outlaw these perverts parade?

3. Does it mean people should stop learning torah, and burn skips instead! Surely not.

4. The wrath of Hashem does not bother these filthy G-dless people, but the curse of Orthodox Rabbis will get them real mad.

   I doubt any of the heads of this abbomination parade or police or even those attending would like to be in PM Sharon’s shoes. No doubt he was cursed.

5. Joseph, follow this link to see what passed. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/article.php?p=7400

6. Although I am of course against this parade. The “curse” says that they won’t be able to do teshuva. in my limited knowledge, that sounds to me like it goes against the torah?

7. Why is this new??? The “Edeh Hachredis” dos not have a 1,000 families in Israel under there umbrella. With out there “Hecher” they would have bin unknown by now. The Gerer Rebbe and all of the “AGUDAH” which had 140,000 votes from “Chareydim” (with DEGEL) is not part of this.

8. “…and whoever helps and protects them…”

   all you who post supporting the rights of these people to march (and you know who you are), take notice! this is a serious issue and the price is high – please for your sake, if you have lent support for their right, come out NOW and show your support for what IS right!

9. YID613

   I second that! Wrote a
   post but for some reason it was not approved,,,,

10. Thank you editor

11. For anyone posting anything even remotely smelling of the slightest support for these perverts, I beg you to beware!
    Not only may you inadvertently fall under the “curse” issued by the Aida, but just going against these Gedolim alone is a scary thought – even without the actual wording.
    There are examples throughout our recent history of curses of this sort actually coming true, i.e. the Kennedy clan.
    I beg you again, please be very careful!!

12. Eliezer,

    Please, nobody supports the MARCH! my question is connected with something we say every yom Kippur, A person has a chance to do teshuvah till the day he dies,,
    The Kennedys ‘lo hoyu shelonu’. The issue of teshuvah is not the same!

13. YW – I believe I read it passed its final reading? May be mistaken.

    bp – You are completely off base. Aside from that, the Eidah Hachareidis refuses to vote in the regimes ”elections.”

14. to number one.
    a person who causes another to transgress is not given the opportunity to do teshuva (rambam hilchos teshuva 4,1). we don’t want him to do teshuva and go to heaven where the other goes to gehinom.

15. What happens if the parade takes place as planned, but there is no war in the North and no destruction in the South?

16. I don’t think it is for sure that they meant they can not do tshuva. But if they did, it is pashut a chazal; “Kol hamachti es harabim ein maspikim byado la’asot tshuva.” See Rambam Hilchos Tshuva Perek 4, Halacha 1 http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/1504.htm

17. A curse dose not mean they could never do Tshuvah. It means they should be publicly punished, for the sake of Kiddush Hashem, without the option of doing a private partial Tshuvah to push of the punishment, and meanwhile causing a Chilul Hashem (Like the Tshuvah of Ach’av).

18. I may be wrong of course but I doubt that the heads of the Eidah actually dictate the text of the adverts curses etc to the publishers. They leave this I assume to lowly workers in the beis din who add their own embellishments. Am I wrong?

19. STOP ADVOCATING FOR MISHKAV ZACHARNIKS. THEY LIVE UPON PEOPLE LIKE YOU> YOU ARE THEIR OXYGEN.THEY TRY BADLY TO CONTINUOUSLY PROVE THAT THEY ARE THE NORMAL ONES AND NOT US STRAIGHT PEOPLE. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN WAKE UP IN THE MORNING FEELING DECENT. THIS IS THE REASON FOR PARADES AND THE LIKE . WHEN YOU SHOW THEM SYMPATHY, YOU ARE HELPING THEIR CAUSE.

20. Please don’t confuse me with the commenter above using a very similar name.

21. BTW,To all those who question the teshuva part of this….
    If someone says “echtah ve’ashuv” its ein maspikin beyadoh la’asos teshuva..Here,the rabbonim are making it very clear to those ——– how grave the sin is- so if they still chose to join after that warning-in essence they are saying one of 2 things:Either, i don’t care for this sin, or, i will worry about that sin later-which is echtah ve’ashuv…So, if you have the nerve to question the Eidah”c, they know alot more than meets the eye..

22. would someone please explain what is meant by war in the north and something in the south,

    what is this in reference to?
    is it a prediction?
    a Pasuk?

    thank you

23. Theseevil doers will fall just like Korach ,the meraglim and other sinners ,Bil’am, Zimri.
    Pinchas,won the bris of Solom by being a KANO”I and getting rid of the sinners in their act. These people are just one step away,bur they are also tinokos she’nishbe’u . Cursing them is not going to do anything,.Condemning their acts is all we can do. .They are not (hopefully) doing their shameful activity in public. Right now,we need sholom so badly. Where are our nevi’im now?

24. Doen’t we say that just like it is a mitzva to give mussar to one that will listen, so too it is a mitzva to remain silent in the presence of someone who will not listen?

25. The second poster looks like it was given out by some very irresponsible org person…. It has no chatima of the Eidah so it’s not from them. What’s with the klal “AL TIFTACH PEH L’SATN”?????? And what do the people of Zafon have with this march in Yerushalayim???????????? I use this site as a platform to be moche against these irresponsible pashkvillin without signatures wich mean absolutely NOTHING.

26. Joli,

    The first poster has no signatures either.

    Abi says;
    So, if you have the nerve to question the Eidah”c, they know alot more than meets the eye..’

    Firstly, as stated above there are no signatures. Secondly, ‘Ain tzadik baaretz asher yaaseh tov vloh Yichteh’, EVEN DAAS TORAH can err.
    But as Joli says, as long as there is no endorsement by any specific Rav, I have little confidence in this statement….

    Oh, and please fellow posters:
    Refrain from confusing those who are PRO the March to those who question the nature of this edict

27. what will the low-lifes supporting the parade say if a war similar to that of last summer breaks out just before this shame parade is scheduled to take place. These low-lifes through their actions are bringing tremendous jeopardy and danger r”l to the inhabitants of Israel.

    Let them take their parade to Cyprus!

28. WHERE DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A CURSE ?

29. nameless,

    If anyone is pro “the march” Shame on them (and I am not saying you are).

    regarding questioning the edict – question all you want.

    Even the edict is a false proclamation when it comes to the march – so what.

    Choose which side you want to associate with – those who publically advocate violating Torah precepts and trying to entice others to do likewise* or those that stand for Torah values.

    * yes there is a recruitment agenda going on. not in the traditional way of recruitment, however, in the following manner: They are advocating to the people that it is OK to listen to their y’h an live the lifestyle of “who they are”. they are seeking to validate to a confused (or weak) person that their “tendancy” is normal (Chas V’shalom) and they should follow it as opposed to fighting it. This needs to be countered and the confused people needed to be strengthened to fight thier y’h.

30. MD,

    I choose those who stand for Torah Values! BUT Torah values dont seem to be consistent with DAAS TORAH proclaiming that there is no teshuva oppertunity when in fact one can do teshuva even if they transgress one of the three cardinal sins! It just doesnt sound logical

31. nameless, if, as you allege, Daas Torah may be wrong chas v’shalom, you are not qualified to question the ruling of Daas Torah.

32. Md,
    As a one of the posters pointed out,there is no endorsement from any individual Rav, so in fact THIS MAY BE A NON ISSUE .But as I mentioned in my previous post( check your YOM KIPPUR MACHZOR)Hashem accepts our teshuva till the day we die.How do you explain NOT
    questioning something that seems to be going against the will of Hashem??

33. There are instances where Hashem takes away the ability to do Teshuva (see Rambam Laws of Teshuva).

34. Nameless,
    According to your (non)logic, we should never, ever demonstrate or berate or push away any group who endeavors to plant their poisonous ideological roots in our Holy camp, because they may – one day – do Teshuva.
    Doing Teshuva on their death-bed may be good for their Neshamos then, but what about the damage they may do to Klall Yisroel right now?!! Their doing Teshuva later, says NOTHING about what we are Machuyav to do right now, which is to excommunicate and ban all of these perverts from coming anywhere near Machaneinu Hakadosh.

    Flatbusher,
    These people are like missionaries. This is nothing at all like eating Treif and Chillul Shabbos, which are completely Bain Adam LaMokom. These pervs are attempting to poison and spoil all of Klall Yisroel. Just the fact that we need to discuss it proves a partial victory on their part. How can you even begin to compare eating Treif and this Shmutz?!

    YW Editor,
    The article states, “The Badatz Eidah Ha’Chareidis has issued a strong statement…” where did you get this information from, as it’s not mentioned in any of the pictured posters?

35. Eliezer,
    No, thats not my logic. Thats your RENDITION of my logic.
    In the article it says that the Eideh claims that these people will never get forgivenes in Bais Din Shel Maaloh which is something only One G-d IN heaven can know.

    I never said not to push these pêople away. I ask again NOT TO CONFUSE people who are willing to accept these pervets with otheres who might have a question on whether or not their teshuvah(if there will be any)whould not be accepted.

36. better to wish all of them a refuah shleimah.

37. Nameless,
    If they cause any permanent, (or even non-permanent), damage to even one pure Yiddishe Neshama, if even one person has a Tumahdike thought because of them, then all the Teshuva in the world will not ever be Mechaper. The damage will be permanent and irrevocable, so Teshuva will not help, ever, period.

    Flatbusher,
    They are not now being attacked for their Aveiros. They are being attacked for trying to spread Shmutz and immorality throughout Klall Yisroel. There was never an uproar about this so long as these pervs remained in their closets!! Only once they decided to put their moral perversions on public display has their been an uproar from the Frum camp. Had they not “come out of the closet,” then I agree with you, it is like eathing Treif. But they are marching to make a point that their way of life should be somehow acceptable to all. This is a “mission” on their part, and it is anything BUT Bain Adam L’Chaveiro only.

38. The editor of yeshiva world is at fault he did not give us the full picture.
    When ever the elected officials that were sent by the Gedolyi Yisroel to the Kneset, do some thing that really could help Yidishkit, the Satmer/Edah people feel that they are in the backseat, so they are making some noise.

39. If treif-eaters decided to march in Yerushalayim in support of eating treifus, you’d too have an outcry and protest at allowing such a parade in Yerushalayim.

40. Flatbusher,
    Because Inyanei Arayos and Tznius has always and will always be at the forefront of our “fence of Kedusha.” Did you ever wonder why we lain the Parsha of Arayos on Mincha of Yom Kippur?
    I think most people would agree that when we say in Shema, “V’Lo Sosuru Acharei L’Vavchem V’Acharei Eineichem,” that we are (mostly) referring to Inyanei Tznius and Erva.

    Klall Yisroel’s strict adherence to all things Kadosh and proper in these Inyanim, even while living in the most immoral countries, is what has enabled us to survive all these centuries.

    I am not in any way belittling, Chas V’Shalom, Shemiras Shabbos or Inyanei Kashrus. I just don’t think that when we are warned against Machshavos Ra’os it means, “I would really like to eat that cheeseburger,” or, “I would really like to turn on that light on Shabbos.”

    I think we all know what Machshavos Ra’os refers to. And the mission of these pervs is to announce, “we are mainstream,” “we have rights,” “think about us and about what we stand for,” and they are trying to convince us of that. The very defintion of a missionary is one who tries to convince others that their way of thinking is correct and proper.

    Frankly, I’m amazed that you can’t see a difference.

41. #43 Joseph says it all! The Charedi community IS NOT INFLUENCED by what is happening on the street! And there for dos not care what others do. Like #43 Joseph said, we don’t go around making an issue with TREIFUS – that’s going on. The torah way was always “Kshot Atzmechu”. This is influenced in our community by the more “modern” who are influenced by the outside world (i.e.“modern”) that feel threatened by this Toaveh, and those who are policy savvy. A regular “Kollel Yungerman in boro park or for that sake in Yerushalime will rather not touch the issue, he just let it go by and not give recognition.
    I was in Satmer Beis Hamerish in BP when some so-called KANUEY came in to the shule with some the PASHKEVILIM against the parade and started putting it out on the tables; he was chased out of the shule by the OLEM. He was made to take every piece of paper with him.

    THAT’S THE REAL CHAREDY WAY

42. bp – you’re completely off-base. Edah is the seat of Daas Torah in Eretz Yisroel. And they have the support of the Torah masses. Many other Gedolei Yisroel wait for their verdict prior to issuing their own proclamation.

43. #45 Joseph – this forum is not to discos the facts it’s about the issues the facts are there. But just for fun I’ll through one up to you.
    What present of Jews don’t go to the KOSEL? – In Israel or in the entire world? Most FRUM Jews don’t even know that we own a sect that going to the holiest place is off-limits. What are talking about? The “Eidah” has no significances with out there Hechsher!

44. bp – you completely misunderstood the comments. The point is that if some bums wanted to parade around Yerushalayim for ANY aveirah, Torah Yidden will NOT sit idly by while these bums parade in Ir Hakodesh supporting ANY aveirah. They will protest and interfere with any such plans.

    Regarding the Edah, Klal Yisroel’s greatest Gedolim have led it througout its long history.

45. Nameless –

    let’s get back to basics – and let us put our logic aside and let the Gedolim show us the logical path. With that said:

    1) I do not care if there is a proclamation against this march of deviancy, or not!
    2) I do not care is the above proclamation was signed, or not!
    3) I am not even interested in whether or not those that participate or support the march can do t’shuva – that is between them and HaShem. If one of these people came to me and sincerely stated that he/she wanted to return to a Torah true way of life, I would point them in the right direction. what their t’shuva would consist of – I’d let them settle it with their Rav.

    simply put – they, the anti-Torah deviant community want to march and

    we, the Torah community should DO NOTHING to support their “right” to march! Our lives and the lives of our children are at stake.

46. #45 Error on your part.
    The olem looks at the Edah for Kashrus, the Badatz symbol is in high regard. Most of the other decisions are for their small kehilla in Yerushalaim. Avrechim have their roshyeshivos, baal batim follow the rav of the shechuna, chassidim by their rebbes, sefradicsh olem by their chachomim, and others by their rabbanim etc. This whole issue was blogged and commented on before.

47. #46 is the correct # for comment #50.
    Sorry bp, meant Joseph

48. sayit – while it is unfortunately true that in golus we do not have any centralized authority recognized across the spectrum of Kal Yisroel, the Eidah is as close to any such thing we do have. of course there are other such authorities as well.

49. Pleasant dreams, Joseph.

50. stan – explain. are you opposed to Daas Torah?

51. What’s with the tsuvah of all who are publicizing this event in every street of Yerushalayim etc??? Does it really help having all our small clean “Tinokos shel Beis Rabon” asking all these questions????? Why should we dirty/poison our children’s innocent minds with this shmutz that never passed through frum communities??????????????????????

52. since someone brought up the “kennedy curse” can someone give a source for it?

    who issued the curse? (i heard r’ aron kotler, but that doesnt make sense since he was never in england to see old man jo kennedy)

    is it docuumented anywhere? any sefer, etc (and dont tell me artscroll mentions it. that’s not a source)

53. The ‘curse’ was given by Reb Eliezer Silver and Reb Ahron Kotler. So it was said, but what does the fact that Reb Ahron never saw Joe Kennedy have to do with it??

54. I found the following – but I cannot vouch for it’s authenticity:

    “And he takes the reader back to Joseph Kennedy, the founding father, who chiseled his way to the Court of St. James’s as ambassador in 1937. On a trip back to the United States, aboard an ocean liner that was also carrying Israel Jacobson, a poor Lubavitcher rabbi, and six of his yeshiva students, who were fleeing the Nazis, Kennedy complained to the ship’s captain about the distracting noises caused by the Jewish passengers praying on the high holy days of Rosh Hashanah, demanding that they be forbidden to continue exercises so distracting to fellow passengers. Rabbi Jacobson put a curse on Kennedy, damning him and all his male offspring to tragic fates.”

    I also heard from others that it was one of the Bobover Rebbis that cursed the Kennedys.

    Either way, it’s pretty scary.

55. to eliezer:

    where did you get that from???

    thanxxx