Meretz Chaiman Yossi Beilin warned that “the end of Zionism is around the corner. If we don’t determine permanent borders as soon as possible, in a few years we will look back and not be able to forgive ourselves for not doing anything with Syrian, the Palestinians and the Arab world,” he said in a seminar on Saturday.
Menu
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
17 Responses
Goodbye. Good riddance.
I second Joseph’s words. Just take the Gaza explusion of Jews as the latest good reason to be rid of these “protectors of Jews”.
“Kee Eshmera Shabbos, KEL YISHMERANI”.
Did I read correctly? Seminar on Saturday?
And he is talking about silly borders.
Hakatan,
I agree they have their faults, but would you prefer the Arabs to be our ‘protectors’???
Hak,
You’re contradicting yourself.
If you believe that jews have a right to live in all parts of Eretz Yisroel, and even those parts that were NOT EY in biblical times, like the Gaza strip – you are essentially a Zionist.
Saying good riddance to Zionism because some are not as zealotly zionist as you sounds rather silly.
Yeah,
Youd rather be protected by the arabs? Or maybe by our (chareidi) politicians?
mendi
“OF COURSE we all BELIEVE that jews have a right to live in all parts of EY” — past, present & future.
Rabbonim, yeshivos, yidden lived in Gaza, Chevron, & eastern Jerusalem (for ex.) throughout the 18th, 19th and 20th century.
What does that have to do with zionism? A definition of that word-the big ZZZZ is needed
Do not follow the connection between the NK photo and Beilins comment. Is it to prove that they are one and the same?
Just to clarify:
re: Hakatan,
I agree they have their faults, but would you prefer the Arabs to be our ‘protectors’???
————–
No, not at this point, certainly not! But I believe, then, that it is wise to frame this as a “lesser of two evils”, rather than be shedding tears with Beilin over the coming end of this regime.
————–
re: Hak,
You’re contradicting yourself.
If you believe that jews have a right to live in all parts of Eretz Yisroel, and even those parts that were NOT EY in biblical times, like the Gaza strip – you are essentially a Zionist.
Saying good riddance to Zionism because some are not as zealotly zionist as you sounds rather silly.
————
This was not at all my intention. Jews certainly have a theoretical right to live anywhere in the world, with the added bonuses that Eretz Yisrael, being Eretz HaKedosha, provides.
Zionism has shown itself to be, even from a purely socio-political viewpoint, a deceit and fraud from its heretical founder’s conception of his brain-child of “normalizing” Jewish-Non relations, through recent history.
I merely quoted one example of its unparalleled wickedness toward its own people it claims to protect and exposes the bald-faced hypocrisy of Israel’s propaganda efforts at encouraging Aliyah based on Israel being “the safest” place for Jews.
Yidden lived peacefully (compared to most other places in the world Yidden lived) in Eretz Yisroel under Ottoman rule. It was not until the advent of zionism in 1897, when Hertzl ym’s started the zionist threats about replacing the Arabs with Jews in Palestine, that the peaceful Jewish-Arab relations came to a grinding halt.
I”ve heard Joseph, repeat these inaccuraties over & over again.
“compared”-deaths, torture, thiefs, ain’t anyone as good as an ARab in that arena.
Yidden lived peacefully (compared to most other places in the world Yidden lived) in Eretz Yisroel under Ottoman rule. It was not until the advent of zionism in 1897
REALLY???
Most probabely as peaceful as Czarist Russia with the occasional progrom
started by the despotic local Turkish Pashsa (Governor) always looking to get more money from the Jews. Life in Austro-Hungary, Germany, France and USA was relativly peaceful but not some Ottoman empire backwater called Palestine!!!
stan – and you still never refuted t. Because you couldn’t.
yosher – thats hogwash, as any Jewish historian would testify. Jews in the Arab lands (until the advent of zionism, 1897), lived FAR more peacefully overall than the Jews in Europe. (The Jews were harrased, expelled, and/or murdered from most if not all major European countries at some point or another. Be it Great Britain, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Russia, etc. Even Austria-Hungary did not accept Jews until the first Holy Roman Emperor. The crusades, blood libels, pograms, and holocaust are just a few of the many. The Jews treatment in the Arab Middle East, Africa, and yes in Ottoman Palestine PALED in comparison to the Jews mis-treatment in Christian Europe. The Pasha may have hated Jews and ripped them off at any opportunity, but what was occuring in Europe was far worse. It still was no picnic in Palestine for the Yidden there.) The reason some don’t like these comparisons, is because it challanges their long-held beliefs about the Arabs.
WHERE & WHEN DID JEWS GET KILLED MORE?
Interesting debate.
(Jews lived safer in Rome & Bavel during period between the temples than they did in Eretz Yisroel.)
V’chol Ha’Risha K’Rega Soveidu. That says it all!
Joseph
I was discussing specfically as you did prior to 1897. Liberalism and movements towards equality had started its march through Europe with Napoleans armies. True, in Arab countries the Jews were respected SECOND CLASS citizens and were not murdered and harassed as in Europe. But Palestine was different. The Ashkenazic community was NOT EVEN CONSIDERED AS JEWS BUT AS FOREIGNERS WITH NO RIGHTS. Just read the books of the Talmidie Hagra and Talmidei Baal Shem suffered at the hands of their neighbors!!
The Ottomon Empire at its start might be compared to Egypt, Morroco, Libya Tunisia or Persia were Jews once lived and thrived, but not at its conclusion.
I do agree that politcal Zionism had an agenda regardless whether it would harm the the Old Yishuv then present inhabitants of Eretz Yisroel, but that is not my point. My point is that Turkish Palestine was no picnic compared to more liberal Eropean countries, anti semitism (Dreyfus in France, “Choppers” for the Church in Austria- Hungary and Italy) notwithstanding.
Not only that but if there’s anyone that has PHYSICALLY destroyed us, its been Zionism as well. If anyone has read Purfidy (if thats how you spell it), they will know how Jews during the time of the Holocaust got killed because of the Zionists; they believed that “only through blood shall Israel be redeemed” meaning the more Jews die, perhaps they will permit us to have our land. It is sick, too many lives have been taken away for this government and hashkafa.