18 Responses

1. The headline is misleading it reads “65 Percent of Chareidim in Israel Do Not Work” The truth is that it means that 65 Percent of Chareidi “Men” don’t work at a job.

   Most of the women work. Contrast that with the number of employment for married women in the secular society, and you will likely find that the numbers balance out. In almost every Chareidi home there is a breadwinner, (it may be the wife) just as there is a breadwinner in a secular home, (it is probably the male)

   In addition, even the men who do not work, still earn a small income. It can be through the stipend that their kollel pays them.

   The torah community believes that the purpose of live is to grow in Torah and mitzvos. Life’s purpose is not to work for its own sake. If they can find a way to earn an income through a wife working, or by joining an institution that wants to pay people to grow into talmidie chachamamim, then they can address their needs for a parnasah that way and devote their energies to the true purpose of their life, and the world.

   Needless to say, if one is not making ends meet and can’t support a family, they have an achrayus to find a hishtadlus that will earn them an income.

   This system is not for everyone. It can only work for people who are willing to be mistapek bemuat, (willing to live with what they need). But if one is willing to live a simple life, they can raise a family on a single income.

   I know that I am going to be mercilessly attacked in the comments for having the chutzpah to defend Chareidim. You don’t have to agree with this system, and you don’t have to do it for yourself. Just try to see the Chareidi perspective.

2. Does this report count men who work “under the table”?(not that it is legal or Halachic). Families where the wife is the breadwinner?
   Who is classified as Chareidi for this report – only Avreichim?
   Also, why are Chareidim and Arabs Lehavdil bunched together?

3. If that were to happen, with the current mindset where it is perfectly fine for 65% not to work and live off the rest of the population, then I won’t be here in 2040.

4. In response to #1 it’s the mans responsibilty to support the family not the wife. Secondly as some one who for years works for a chardi organisation helping famillies in debt and living in poverty I can say that the vast majority of Avreichim do not make ends meet. Nowadays it very very difficult to support a large family on one salary, so your staement “But if one is willing to live a simple life, they can raise a family on a single income” applies to one in a 1000. I learned in kollel for 12 years and ran a small gemach they avreichim were always begging me for loans to put food on the table. It’s the army that keeps the kollelim going. If not for them at least 50% for more them would close down. Virtually all of the problems in the charadi world start with the poverty trap, and take that from someone who has been dealing with stuff for years.

5. #1 – the time a chareidi woman spends working does not come close to the time a regular man spends working.

   Chareidi working woman work perhaps half a day, and go on maternity leave for half a year every 2-3 years. You cannot compare that with a regular man who works 40 hours per week standard.

   And secular women also don’t take maternity leave that often, and tend to work longer days than chareidi women, also in higher-paying occupations, since unlike most chareidim, they do learn. A secular woman can earn in one day what a chareidi woman earns in a week.

6. Define “work”. Have you noticed large number of Hareidim sitting on street corners twidling their thumbs and getting drunk. The reality is that unemployment is quite low, and that most Hareidim are gainfully employed as academics. If you don’t consider someone who is paid to study Shakespeare or Marx to be unemployed, you shouldn’t conisder someone who is paid to study Torah to be unemployed.

   If you do something and get money for it, it is considered work in the United States. We consider graduate students to be employed. They pay taxes on stipends. If you used American definitions, all the kollel types would be considered employed.
   The idea of mass unemployment among Hareidim is nothing more than deliberate misinformation from the secular zionists.

   The economic problem in Israel, other than bigotry and hatred of Torah and Mitsvos by those in control, is that a large part of the Hareidim community chooses to follow a career path as a professional scholar, which is not especially lucrative (though arguably the chance of supporting yourself as a Torah “Major” is a lot greater than the chance of getting a job as an “Humanities” major – indeed almost all humanities major drop out before getting their doctorate and find unrelated jobs). Secular Judaism has always been about substituting greed for Torah values, and the hilonim are upset that we haven’t gotten the message.

7. is this a racist discriminatory article? so its a crime to study torah all day and not be an idolator?
   its fundamentally a slanderous lie because poverty refers to money only and doesnt take into account that the lifestyle is very nice and acceptable without money.
   in the usa it says that the highest poverty rate is amoung native americans, this doesnt mean they are all digging through trash and filthy, it simply means they have a lifestyle where money isnt as fundamental to quality of life.

8. I agree with comment #4 and would like to add an additional point in response to comment #1 and the article.
   You can’t compare the earning potential between an uneducated kolel wife to a secular husband who has a college education.
   As a professional who supported my husband for 15 years in Kolel (without any government or family aid) – I definitely don’t disapprove of Kolel – but there has to be a method. You can’t expect the Israeli or U.S. government to be responsible for you. I remember being a girl from a poor home and wanting to marry a long time learner. I had to make a decision – do I want a learning boy or do I want to be a BY teacher (which I really wanted to be). I made my choice and got an education so that I would be able to support my family with Kavod and not be dependent on others. There is no excuse for demanding from parents or outsiders.
   Yes for a few special individuals – 1 out of 100 – whose Limud Torah is so special – there is a responsibility for Klal Yisroel to support them – but not for the Hamon Am.
   If you really want it – you can do it.
   Also – I am not trashing those who are working and cannot make ends meet and go on govt programs – that is what they are for.
   But you can’t expect to have a housefull of kinderlach, learn and have others do your job for you.
   In today’s society – even on one income it is difficult.

9. Many of our schools are encouraging their students to be “better” than their parents and live on Bitachon. Then too many end up living on parents and programs and are not happy campers! Not healthy for raising a family.

10. aposhitermaidel, unless you have major parental commitment, by the time you can make a nice salary as a professional, in preparation for getting married and supporting a learner, you are older and are, by and large, stuck with society’s rejects or commitment phobes for marriage potentials. Look around.

    Halevei your way would work. Why else are parents promising their last penny to get their daughters married young?

11. Are they learning Torah? If not, shame on them.

12. I am truly happy to see a society not enamored by materialism like we are, and able to avoid the endless rat race and do something truly worthwhile with their lives. Halevi we would all have the same outlook on money, and our world would be better place. Instead of chasing pointless, transcendent money for the vast majority of our lives, we should all be chasing the eternally crucial Torah and Mitzvos, and focus on whats really important. Cudos are due to those trying to reach this ideal society, not scorn and derision!!!

13. What is the standard, 3 cars, everybody with a celluar phone, pager, private phone, computer, 2 to 3 vacations a year, entire new wardrobes everyyear. OR 0R, maybe not even a car, one celluar phone, buying in second clothing store or making your own, one computer for the whole house, no faxes, 1 vacation in the area not a flying destination, and not going out 2 or 3 times a week to eat. It makes a big big difference. I know i have lived both.

14. mw13, not all Kollel couples are less materialistic than non-Kollel couples. That’s a huge generalization on your part. Yesh v’Yesh!

15. #14 – Yes, it is a generalization, but I believe that for the most part it’s a true one. After all, kollel is not a field that tends to attracts those looking for big bucks.

16. i work in brooklyn for a therapy agency. my husband does not work due to the economy even though he has a BA and a teaching license. a while ago my agency reduced my hours and i experienced a pay cut. not realizing the extent of it, i went to the book keeper to discuss it. she looked me in the eye and told me that the cut was good for me….because then i can get “programs.” my work told me to my face that they were doing me a “favor” by taking away my money so that i can rely on the government, not on my job. i hope those who have or might have said this to their own workers read this. there is nothing worse than being told that you are worth nothing and that your work or your education is worth nothing. it created such a sinas chinam in me as well as a loathing for chassidim that i cannot describe. i hope that it will dissipate. PLEASE stop this. the government does not exist for those who can work but choose not to. talmud torah is important and i would be more than happy if my husband was not working by choice and in a kollel, but for a year at least. families should support each other, but not at the extent of one spouses sanity or sense of self.

17. and btw my husband also learns on his own and there do exist shiurim that cater to professional men who work during the day for those who would like a chavrusa. you just have to look for them.

18. Choosing not to work is one thing. But demanding that everyone else support you because you choose not to work, and organizing politically to demand that the government provide for you, though you do not recognize the government, and though you look down at those who do work as people not pursuing a meaningful life (just read the comments on this page) is infantile and as far as I can tell without justification in halacha. The most basic formulations of halacha from the Mishna to Rambam speak of the necessity of work together with Torah.