R’ Daniel Eidensohn in his ‘Daas Torah’ blog quotes Rav Moshe Sternbuch Shlita as saying there was no dibuk, but “mental illness”, adding he was urged by the Rav to write and article and publicize his words.
It appears that despite the involvement of prominent Torah personalities, who met with the avreich reportedly infected with a dibuk, Rav Moshe Sternbuch, Av Beis Din of the Eida Chareidis remains firm in his position, that the avreich is mentally ill and even though noted Mekubal HaRav David Batzri is involved, this is not a case of a dibuk.
In addition, R’ Eidensohn in his report, quoting HaRav Sternbuch, that despite reports on various websites that he did, Rav Shternbach never issued a p’sak niddui against the dibuk to prevent any harm to Rav Batzri during the attempt to lure the dibuk out of the avreich.
Rav Sternbuch is also quoted as expressing surprise and dismay over the fact that thousands believe the reports of the man infected with a dibuk.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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18 Responses
There is no way we can know one way or the other without personally speaking with the parties involved. I’ve become less believing of “reports” recently (no offense to YWN) when I’ve heard stories that I’ve been involved in get warped beyond recognition when repeated.
Of course people would sooner believe it’s mental illness than a dybuk because the former is not mechayev them in any way. If it’s a dybuk we have to start seriously thinking into s’char v’onesh etc. etc. etc. But again, we have no way of knowing either way.
The ‘daat torah’ blog has no reliability, and until R Sternbuch issues a formal statement one way or the other, we will have no idea what R Sternbuch or the other Gedolim holds one way or the other. Why is the only place this statement appear is on a scandal chasing blog?
Thank you Rav Shternbuch. Thank you Rav Eidensohn. What a Kidush Hashem! Perhaps we can now move on from all this dibuk and segulah narahkeit and once again be an “Am Chochom Vnavon”. Lets us hope and pray for the day that the nations proclaim “ki rak am chacham vnavan hagoy hagodol hazeh”
So who do we believe? Is YWN guilty of false information? Did Rav Sternbuch meet with the avreich? As usual it’s hard to get facts on a situation.
Rav Moshe Sternbuch Shlita urged Daniel Eidensohn to write an article and publicize his words in Eidensho’s ‘Daas Torah’ blog about the Dibuk?
whatsgoingon – re: post #3. I’m curious. Do you believe in Kabbalah at all? Why do you refer to segulos as “narashkeit?” Why do you even mention segulos here, when that isn’t even associated with the concept of a dibbuk?
#5 – It does sound a little strange that Rav Sternbuch would ask someone to write an article quoting him (especially on the internet). Why doesn’t Rav Sternbuch just issue a statement himself? I’m not criticizing Rav Sternbuch Chas V’shalom, I’m just saying this story gets stranger by the minute.
When and where, did Rav Sternbuch appoint Rabbi Eidensohn as his spokesman.
It is not the first time that Rabbi Eidensohn purports to speak in Rav Sternbuchs name, but we never hear from Rav Sternbuch himself, nor does he discuss it in his weekly articles published in The Yated.
Oy vay, am I meshuga for believing this?
1)How in the world does a mental illness make two voices come out from your body at once?
2) If it’s not a dibuk, why is the title of this article “More On The Dibuk From Brazil”?
Can the new body scans that the TSA plans on installing in US airports also check for Dibuks?
I’m quite sure this is true.
If you doubt this – why do you on the other hand believe the story of Rav Chaim Kanievsky telling this guy that only Rav David Batzri can save him? That sounds a LOT more fishy to me.
B”H Rav Sternbuch saves the day.
BS”D
Shulem alychem. I am posting fin be half from the talking fish of New Square. Please leave alone myne cousin the dybbuk because if nisht you’ll be swimming with the fishes.
how can a mentally ill person put up such a good act?
Does the dibbuk report for YWN?
why doesn’t anyone look at this logically?
1. why don’t dibbukim ever reveal themselves in the world of non superstitious people? when was a dibbuk ever heard from in washington heights? or even in the non jewish or non religious world?
2. why wasn’t a competent psychiatrist called to evaluate the person first? again, if the first conclusion that they come to is that this is a dibbuk, what does that say about them? we tend to see what we want to see.
3. does it not strike you as odd that no one was allowed to see the actual ‘exorcism’ ceremony? we don’t know for a fact that ‘two voices are coming out at once’…it may well be a hoax, and even if it’s not a hoax, it’s very possible for two voices to come out simultaneously, some tibetan monks practice multiphonic singing, which is the ability to sing two seperate and distinct notes at once.
4. certainly if there was enough evidence that this was real, there would be no lack of scientists studying this phemonenon, in fact, if anyone, anywhere could prove the existence of any element of the spiritual realm in a peer reviewed journal, they would win the nobel prize! there are currently several organizations, both religious and sceptical in nature, that offer millions of dollars in prize money to whomever can prove this!
that being said, it seems to me that many religious people are far more superstitious than the rambam would feel comfortable with…
how can mental illness make someone speak languages they never knew ?? it must be a dibuk!!!!!!
#17:
you asked: “how can mental illness make someone speak languages they never knew ?? it must be a dibuk!”
it is interesting to me that you ask a question and then immediately come to a conclusion that is far less than logical, and you say it with such emphasis.
how do you know that he spoke in any other languages at all? perhaps the story was embellished by a superstitious believer whose agenda was to make other people believe the story. how do you know that he did not know those languages if he even spoke them? it is very common for people to know phrases in languages that they do not speak. i know many latin phrases, but i am not a speaker of latin.
the human brain is a very complex organ, when mental illness occurs, it is quite possible for long lost memories to come and go in the forefront of the mind, he could instantly remember words in one particular language that he heard in grade school, that until now he hadn’t even remembered, and then say them while in a psychotic state. it’s very common that patients who suffer from multiple personality disorder to speak in a tone that is far different than their normal speech pattern when one personality becomes dominant over the other. what is interesting is that the articles that report this ‘dibbuk’ claim that he moved his stomach, but not his lips. this is exactly how ventriloquism is performed. it may be a hoax, it may be a mental illness, why would you immediately come to the conclusion that it’s the carnal infestation of a disembodied soul before you researched it thoroughly? that sounds irresponsible.
remember, socrates said that a life not spent questioning is not worth living at all.