It appears the United Nations General Assembly will comply with an Arab League request and open the forum to discuss the Goldstone Report, which accuses Israel of war crimes resulting from Operation Cast Lead. The GA discussion is set for the first week of November.
The good news is the General Assembly has not real authority to do anything other than to discuss the one-sided UN documents, which conveniently ignores over seven years of Hamas rocket attacks into southern Israeli population centers.
Back in Israel, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak remain opposed to calls to establish an internal commission to probe the IDF’s actions during the counter-terrorism offensive, explaining the IDF has probed incidents and all concerned are confident that the military has once again proven the IDF remains the most moral army in the world.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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32 Responses
This article needs to be corrected, and the author actually needs to read the entire report before writing about it in error.
In the opening of the Goldstone Report on page 31 it certainly does talk about the “8000” rockets fired by Palestinian militants, and it gives a complete overview.
Israel did not “ignore” all those rockets, in fact, more than a thousand Palestinians were killed by return fire as well as armed incursions by Israel.
The munitions count used by Israeli forces firing at civilian areas within the occupied territories far exceeds anything homemade coming from the resistance to the illegal occupations.
No one can read the entire Goldstone Report with the IDF shooting civilians carrying white flags, shooting white phosphorous into civilian areas and UN shelters, their use of Palestinian human shields, the collective punishment that is ongoing today.
All of these things seriously call into question this article writer’s perspective writing this:
“…all concerned are confident that the military has once again proven the IDF remains the most moral army in the world.”
When Israel looks completely guilty as the country did not cooperate, and it is without question that Richard Goldstone credentials as an international jurist are impeccable, how can it be credibly claimed when so many of us saw it all unfold live on satellite TV?
This will be a watershed event in Israeli history, I suggest the editors get their reporters to read the entire report.
This will not be going away anytime soon.
#2 Where can I read the entire Goldstone Report?
dok36,
Here’s a copy:
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil
/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf
“Israel did not “ignore” all those rockets, in fact, more than a thousand Palestinians were killed by return fire as well as armed incursions by Israel.”
The author of the article didn’t say that Israel ignored anything. Follow your own advice and read before writing.
“The munitions count used by Israeli forces firing at civilian areas within the occupied territories far exceeds anything homemade coming from the resistance to the illegal occupations.”
Gaza is occupied? By who?
“…with the IDF shooting civilians carrying white flags, shooting white phosphorous into civilian areas and UN shelters, their use of Palestinian human shields, the collective punishment that is ongoing today.”
– shooting civilians carrying white flags: Illegal, and Israel looks into war crimes committed by soldiers and prosecutes offenders. Israel actually has soldiers sitting in prison for illegal wartime crimes. Does Hamas?
– their use of Palestinian human shields: see the above.
– shooting white phosphorous into civilian areas: The entire battlefield is “civilian areas” because of Hamas’s decision to violate several tenets of the Geneva convention. UN shelters have both shielded enemy combatants and suffered collateral damage.
– the collective punishment that is ongoing today: The “collective” is being punished due to enemy combatants hiding among them, as well as the inability to cut off services to just the terrorists. British Colonel Richard Kemp said “To deliver aid virtually into your enemy’s hands is, to the military tactician, normally quite unthinkable. But the IDF took on those risks.” Does that sound like collective punishment?
“ When Israel looks completely guilty as the country did not cooperate…”
Israel has explained many times why it didn’t cooperate. I won’t rehash those reasons here, but they’re easily available for those interested.
“ …and it is without question that Richard Goldstone credentials as an international jurist are impeccable… ”
The one-sidedness of his report calls them very much into question.
Even so, he said that he wouldn’t have undertaken the job if he knew how slanted the outcome of the report would be.
Hi bbsnews,
“with the IDF shooting civilians carrying white flags, shooting white phosphorous into civilian areas and UN shelters, their use of Palestinian human shields, the collective punishment that is ongoing today”
I like novels too. I’ll pour you a cuppa while we write another chapter together.
As far as what *actually* happened and is happening, when you’re ready for that we can do that too.
WOW I’m suprised that Palistinains read the Yeshiva World. #2’s rhetoric is typical Palistinian.
Anyways just in case somebody might buy his words…
YES they did ingnore it for 7 years until they plotzed
“occupied territories”….hello…..Israel disengaged in 2005 not one inch was occupied between 05 and 08 but that still got barrages of rockets.
ysr514,
Israel still occupies Gaza, Sharon’s “disengagement” is meaningless as Israel still maintains complete authority, including at the Egyptian border.
See page 78 of the Goldstone Report for a complete rundown of the international law that proves Israeli still occupies Gaza.
Or take the short trip to Google News and look where the French Foreign Minister was just barred from entering Gaza from Israel.
The is simply no arguing this point, it is the position of the Obama administration, the State Department, the UN, and the EU as well as of course the entire Middle East.
“I can only try”,
Sorry, I will be happy to respond when you actually respond to what was written, instead of what you think was written.
The author falsely claimed that Richard Goldstone “ignored” thousands of rockets, as I correctly pointed out, that claim is false starting on page 38.
The rest of your claims are as laughable. Both Hamas and Israel were found to have committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity.
As the legel occupying power, Israel bears a grave responsibility for what it did in Gaza.
“Anonymous”,
I know exactly what happened. I was in contact with journalists on the ground, and with various governmental personnel and of course watching the whole thing unfold on Al Jazeera English pretty much sealed the deal.
If *you* ever want to correspond about what really happened, you do let me know please.
I suggest reading the Goldstone Report in it’s entirety.
Not only is is a well-sourced and factual primer on the whole of the conflict, the very real crimes committed by both sides are explored in excruciating detail.
For all those who have not read the entire report, I certainly recommend it because those of us who have know that many of the comments posted here have no bearing on reality at all.
Israel still occupies Gaza, Sharon’s “disengagement” is meaningless as Israel still maintains complete authority, including at the Egyptian border.
That is a unique and dishonest definition of “occupation”, which you were forced into when the falseness of your previous “occupation” statement was proven false.
The only thing Israel is attempting to control is the importation of weapons. Israel controls nothing else, not the election system, airwaves, infrastructure, government, press, taxes, etc. Nothing.
See page 78 of the Goldstone Report for a complete rundown of the international law that proves Israeli still occupies Gaza.
Baloney. It says no such thing. (Yes, I read it.)
It does show that the control of the borders and restriction of goods going thru them causes hardship to the Gaza residents.
If you are referring to the footnote from “Weekly report on Israeli human rights violations in the Occupied Palestinian Territory”, it makes mention of “occupation”. This comes from the “Palestinian Centre for Human Rights”. Curiously, I can’t find the area on their site which discusses the violation of Israeli’s rights to live in peace, without rockets raining down and tunnels being dug. As we all know, Israel would open the borders wide in a second if they could safely do so. Once again, see Col. Richard Kemp’s testimony.
Sorry, I will be happy to respond when you actually respond to what was written, instead of what you think was written.
Baloney. And a cop-out. I read the parts you mentioned.
The author falsely claimed that Richard Goldstone “ignored” thousands of rockets, as I correctly pointed out, that claim is false starting on page 38.
No, you said “Israel did not “ignore” all those rockets, in fact, more than a thousand Palestinians were killed by return fire as well as armed incursions by Israel.”
The article (mistakenly) said the report ignored the attacks, not that Israel did.
Furthermore, I’d like to know where you get “more than a thousand Palestinians were killed by return fire”. As an aside, even if they did kill 1,000 with return fire, are you saying Israel shouldn’t return fire at terrorists who are deliberately rocketing civilians (a violation of international law) and hiding among civilians (another violation)?
The rest of your claims are as laughable.
I see you were laughing too hard to respond to any of the other facts I mentioned. (I can understand that the thought of Hamas imprisoning their terrorists for atrocities is ridiculous.) Once your giggle-fit has passed, why don’t you respond.
Both Hamas and Israel were found to have committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity.
Both Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the United States committed crimes. KSM organized the 9/11 attacks, and the U.S. waterboarded him.
This is the kind of ludicrous claim that can be made even when sticking to the facts, which the Goldstone report didn’t, cherry-picking “witnesses” provided by Hamas.
bBS news (BS is capatilized on purpose)
thank you for suggesting that we read the report in its entirity which i’m doing.
the source i got it from is http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/UNFFMGC_Report.pdf in which it says
The series of economic and political measures imposed against the Gaza Strip began
around February 2006 with the Hamas electoral victory in the legislative elections. This was also
accompanied by the withholding of financial support for the Gaza Strip by some donor countries
and actions of other countries that amounted to open or tacit support of the Israeli blockade.
A/HRC/12/48
page 96
Hamas took over effective power in the Gaza Strip on 15 June 2007. Shortly thereafter Israel
declared the Gaza Strip a “hostile territory,”188 enacting a series of economic, social and military
measures purportedly designed to isolate and strangle Hamas. These have made a deep impact on
the population’s living standards.
313. The blockade comprises measures such as the closure of border crossings, sometimes
completely for a number of days, for people, goods and services, and for the provision of fuel
and electricity. The closure has had severe effects on trade and general business activity,
agriculture and industry in the Gaza Strip. Electricity and fuel that are provided from Israel are
essential for a broad range of activities from business to education, health services, industry and
agriculture. Further limits to the fishing area in the sea adjacent to the Gaza Strip were fixed and
enforced by Israel, negatively impacting on fishing activities and the livelihood of the fishing
community. Israel also established a buffer zone of variable and uncertain width along the
border, together with a sizeable no-go area in the northern part of the Gaza Strip where some
Israeli settlements used to be situated. This no-go area is in practice an enlarged buffer zone in
the northern part of the Gaza Strip where people cannot go. The creation of the buffer zone has
forced the relocation of a number of factories from this area closer to Gaza City, causing serious
environmental concerns and potential health hazards for the population. People’s movements
have also been drastically restricted, with only a few businesspeople allowed to cross on a very
irregular and unpredictable basis.
the report basically says the effect but doesn’t say the cause the reason for the blockade was due to the fact that hamas was shooting rockets into israel (which they occasionally do
reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932009_blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
A total blockade was imposed after Hamas defeated Fatah in the Battle of Gaza (2007), when Egypt and Israel partially sealed their border crossings with Gaza, on the grounds that Fatah had fled and was no longer providing security on their side.[3] Egypt [3] fearing a spill-over of Hamas-style militancy into their territory assisted in the blockade.[14] The sanctions were tightened in response to rocket attacks on southern Israel and Palestinian militant attacks on crossing points between Israel and Gaza
mbachur,
It will help you in the future to not cherry pick the report for what you think would help you, and instead read the entire thing and attempt to digest and comprehend it.
It’s a long read, I encourage you to finish it.
But for now, scroll down to page 538, paragraph 1733:
“The Mission further considers that the series of acts that deprive Palestinians in the Gaza
Strip of their means of subsistence, employment, housing and water, that deny their freedom of
movement and their right to leave and enter their own country, that limit their rights to access a
court of law and an effective remedy, could lead a competent court to find that the crime of
persecution, a crime against humanity, has been committed.”
Hmmm. What do you make of that?
And just wait until you see paragraph 1734!
furthermore
nowhere do i see that hamas used human shields themselves we know this to be true(there are numerous accounts from palestineans (hmm i wonder whose side they would be on))
Im sorry i give this report an F for fail, false, fake
very one sided
To BSnews:
I did read the report about a month ago. What was disturbing about it was how it equates Israel,which is a democratic lawful society, to hamas which is a terrorist immoral regime which targets civilians, tortoures and kills detainees against international law. Its a joke how the report says hamas should investigate they’re war crimes. They are thugs that took over by killing(without trial) their fatah rivals(their own arab brothers). No western society will agree on equating hamas with israel(I don’t know where your from). Secondely everything the report said Israel did could be said about any country at war ie.afganistan,iraq,pakistan. Unfortunately war causes innocent deaths no matter how much the fighting army tries to avoid it. Its especially hard when the terrorists hide behind the civilians and its even harder yet when the terrorists are the civilians(remember hamas was voted in by at least 80percent of the people). Have a nice day.
I found this on Wikipedia:
The Gaza–Israel conflict is an on-going conflict that escalated following Hamas’ takeover of the Gaza Strip and is a component of the larger Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Counterintuitively, the conflict increased following Israel’s removal of all Israeli civilians and military from Gaza (completed by September 12, 2005). According to the terms of the Disengagement Plan, Israel retained exclusive control over Gaza’s airspace, continued to guard and monitor the external land perimeter of the Gaza Strip, with the exception of its southernmost border (where Egypt retained control of the border and border crossings were supervised by European monitors), and continued to monitor and guard Gaza’s coastline. Israel largely controls and provides for Gaza’s water supply, electricity, and communications infrastructure. According to Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, by the standards of international law, Israel still remains an Occupying Power.
So in other words, although not a single Israeli remains in Gaza, elections are held without Israeli interference, Hamas controls the airwaves, press, armed security forces and government, all without Israeli involvement, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, still say that “Israel remains an Occupying Power”.
Can you name me a single occupying power in world history that allowed the occupied territory this level of self-government?
That reminds me of a joke attributed to Abraham Lincoln:
“If you call a dog’s tail a leg, how many legs does a then dog have?
Four. Calling it a leg doesn’t make it a leg.”
“I can only try”.
Read the entire section, get down to page 85, paragraph 276:
“Israel has without doubt at all times relevant to the mandate of the Mission exercised
effective control over the Gaza Strip. The Mission is of the view that the circumstances of this control establish that the Gaza Strip remains occupied by Israel. The provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention therefore apply at all relevant times with regard to the obligations of Israel towards the population of the Gaza Strip.”
Read on past that as well all the way to the end and then we can discuss it.
Although I’m not sure if we can ever find common ground if you cannot even accept the most basic and well-known fact, Sharon’s “disengagement” was never anything more than a sham.
Israel still maintains complete control over Gaza, and has since ’67, in terms of international law Israel maintains “effective control” of all aspects of the Gaza Strip.
That makes Israel the occupier, and also responsible for the well-being of those in its charge, the innocent civilians of Gaza.
Israel has clearly and woefully failed in this regard.
Why are you you comparing Israel to other country’s or other acts that may very well be war crimes as well and then say “they do it too.”
That’s awfully juvenile.
How about for this thread stick to Israel and what the Goldstone Report found.
bbsnews what happened to everything that was left over when israel left gaza,
oh yeah the palestineans destroyed it
why was that?
secondly if Hamas recognized the right of israel to exist maybe israel would give them everything you mentioned and not be afraid of a terrorist attack, instead of Hamas using u.n. ambulances to attack Israel
Read the entire section, get down to page 85, paragraph 276:
“Israel has without doubt at all times relevant to the mandate of the Mission exercised
effective control over the Gaza Strip. The Mission is of the view that the circumstances of this control establish that the Gaza Strip remains occupied by Israel. The provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention therefore apply at all relevant times with regard to the obligations of Israel towards the population of the Gaza Strip.”
I actually am up to page 100, and saw that paragraph. Had you given the correct location originally it would have saved some time.
“The Mission” (i.e. Goldstone) considers Gaza occupied territory. Israel doesn’t accept that designation.
To compare the Danish occupation by Germany in WWII to the current Gaza situation is not simply wrong, it’s willfully dishonest. To repeat: Hamas controls everything within Gaza. If a single Israeli was to cross the border it would be at grave personal risk and quite likely provoke an international incident. Denmark was truly invaded, occupied, and had a pro-German puppet government in place.
Although I’m not sure if we can ever find common ground if you cannot even accept the most basic and well-known fact, Sharon’s “disengagement” was never anything more than a sham.
Uprooting every last Jew, military and civilian was a sham?
Treating Gaza as a foreign country is a sham?
Hamas has a fully independent government which is murderously hostile to Israel – is that a sham?
Was the free and democratic election that Israel allowed which put them into office a sham?
You’re calling it a “sham” because Israel controls the border crossings, airspace and electric supply. Israel would be happy to relinquish all of those if only they could. Hamas openly declared that it had no intention of abiding by PA agreements with Israel.
Israel still maintains complete control over Gaza, and has since ‘67, in terms of international law Israel maintains “effective control” of all aspects of the Gaza Strip.
That’s baloney.
No, it does not, even according to the logic that considers it “occupied”. See above.
That makes Israel the occupier, and also responsible for the well-being of those in its charge, the innocent civilians of Gaza. Israel has clearly and woefully failed in this regard.
So says Goldstone. Israel disputes that.
Based on this logic, Israel is also responsible for any crimes against civilians committed by Hamas, just to show how silly this is.
Why are you you comparing Israel to other country’s or other acts that may very well be war crimes as well and then say “they do it too.”
More baloney.
That is absolutely not what was said.
The comparison was between Israel’s morality (prosecuting its own soldiers when they commit war crimes) and Hamas’s lionization of their murderers of innocents and civilians.
How about for this thread stick to Israel and what the Goldstone Report found.
I am sticking entirely to Israel and Goldstone’s report, findings, distortions, biases, misrepresentations, and fabrications.
You mentioned that Al Jazeera is a news source of yours. AlJazeera is a racist anti-American, anti-Israel channel.
Furthermore the phrase “resistance to the illegal occupations” as a euphemism for rocket attacks, suicide bombings and other terrorism that deliberately targets civilians sticks in my craw.
Here’s a question:
Why is it an occupation? Why is it illegal? Because Israel took it from Egypt in a war?
Should Israel give it back? To who?
Egypt?
-They originally took it in a war vs. Israel. They have no legitimate claim to it. The British mandate wasn’t for Gaza to be an Egyptian territory.
England?
– They took it from Turkey with a mandate. I doubt they want it back.
Turkey?
– I don’t think they’re interested.
Hi bbsnews,
Are you having fun on this blog? You found a good Jewish blog and ya thought you could spin some good tales to a captive audience :).
Your propaganda won’t make a dent to those who care about the truth, so my suggestion is to stop while you’re, ahem, behind. Actually a position you know well, as in, behind your womenfolk’s skirts, to fire from hospitals and kindergartens…
Keep on trying, if you need to so badly. Lies are a shaky thing, and sooner or later, you’ll have to face your own.
Anonymous,
Facts are not “propaganda” – although I can certainly see where you would like to think so.
When you find a single lie that you can show I purposefully wrote, then we can talk about it.
Until then, I suggest you read the report and get out a little more into the real world.
There is a very valid reason that Israel is losing support even from its friends – that would be because Israel is out of control and is increasing the world terrorism level.
mbachur,
Perhaps you should have brought those witnesses to Richard Goldstone?
Given that he is a committed Jew and Zionist, a man of impeccable credentials, he even serves on the board of Hebrew University in Jerusalem and you are claiming here that he just ignored the evidence?
Pony up the evidence buddy. It’s not too late. Gather it up, write a letter to Haaretz or JPost and show the world how wrong Richard Goldstone was and how you singlehandedly found evidence that he ignored.
I anxiously await the outcome. Maybe you should have provided that evidence at the beginning when asked for it like many of the rest of us did.
Shrag,
Hamas is part of the legal elected government in Palestine. I’m curious as to where you get your information?
Nearly every expert and analyst that I have talked to and am aware of have made it quite clear that Hamas must be included in any future settlement to the conflict.
Perhaps you should study up a bit on the issue and find out what the experts actually have to say?
Start back when Israel nurtured Hamas as a counter-weight to Arafat back when they were primarily a humanitarian organization.
Study up on when and why that changed.
You’ll find that Israel created Hamas and radicalized the organization; you did know that Hamas has only existed about half the time of the occupation?
They didn’t spring up out of nowhere. They were brought out, by Israel’s own actions.
When you find a single lie that you can show I purposefully wrote, then we can talk about it.
Since none of us are mind-readers that isn’t possible.
I have shown multiple instances of inaccuracies and distortions, beginning with your very first statement which claimed that the article’s author said Israel ignored rocket attacks.
There is a very valid reason that Israel is losing support even from its friends – that would be because Israel is out of control and is increasing the world terrorism level.
“Out of control” Israel according to Goldstone:
-dropped leaflets warning of attacks
– made phone calls warning of attacks
– developed and used “roof knocker” munitions to frighten civilians away from areas to be attacked
– but none of these measures were enough (of course).
Israel increases terrorism by fighting terrorists.
The U.S. increases terrorism by fighting terrorists.
We should just stop fighting terrorists and then they’d go away.
Given that he is a committed Jew and Zionist, a man of impeccable credentials, he even serves on the board of Hebrew University in Jerusalem and you are claiming here that he just ignored the evidence?
Goldstone recognized that the commission was set up to frame Israel in the worst possible light by not even investigating Hamas’s brutality, terrorism and war crimes. Israel recognized the same thing. Despite his supposed insistence on investigating the entire war, evidence was in some cases ignored, in some cases played down, and in some cases discounted.
Hamas is part of the legal elected government in Palestine. I’m curious as to where you get your information?
That Hamas murdered their Fatah opponents in imaginatively brutal fashion, such as taking them to hi-rise buildings and throwing them off? That info comes straight from the news.
Nearly every expert and analyst that I have talked to and am aware of have made it quite clear that Hamas must be included in any future settlement to the conflict.
What type of settlement can be reached with a terrorist entity that declares they will never accept a state of Israel in any form, all Jews are legitimate military targets, and funds children’s TV programs glorifying suicide bombings and encouraging the kids to aspire to become one?
Start back when Israel nurtured Hamas as a counter-weight to Arafat back when they were primarily a humanitarian organization.
Their “humanitarianism” is baloney.
What humanitarian thinks it’s OK to murder babies in cold blood?
They are a group of religious murderous fanatics.
You’ll find that Israel created Hamas and radicalized the organization
Israel did think Hamas would counter the Fatah (bad move) but they were radical (i.e. terrorist) from day one.
They didn’t spring up out of nowhere. They were brought out, by Israel’s own actions.
They were brought about by Israel’s existence – just like every other anti-Israel terror group. Israel had to fight for its existence vs. invading armies from its day of creation, and the attacks have continued ever since and for the same reason – they can’t accept a Jewish state in the Middle East.
bbs
to whom should i bring witnesses
from the palestineans they wont talk.
from the israelis they’ll say theyre lying ill direct you to a video that ywn posted recently from the un
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/YWN+Videos/40923/VIDEO:+UN+Watch+has+What+to+Say+About+the+Goldstone+Report.html
i hope this is enough proof for you
I anxiously await the outcome. Maybe you should have provided that evidence at the beginning when asked for it like many of the rest of us did.
Comment by bbsnews — October 28, 2009 @ 10:47 am
—
Who is “us”? In other words, please tell us a bit about yourself, bbsnews.
mbachur,
The Palestinians of course talk. I talk to them all of the time. I’m always intrigued by people who make claims like yours.
As far as your “evidence” – don’t try and convince me, I have no idea why no one would consider your logical fallacy, in other words your “appeal to authority” of some ex-Brit officer touting the IDF official line. It nearly matches the IDF’s prose word for word.
Hasbara used to actually work before the Internet and Satellite TV, now it does not not.
The fact is, Israel did use Gaza civilian as human shields and furthermore they were caught in a lie when they tried to claim that militants were firing from a UN compound.
Indeed, Goldstone’s mission found no credible evidence that Palestinian militants used civilians as shields.
If you come up with hard evidence, contact the Office for the High Commissioner of Human Rights at the UN.
mbacher,
In answer to your other charges, that Palestinian armed groups used ambulances to fight from see page 148 of the Goldstone Report, paragraph 485:
“On the basis of the investigations it has conducted, the Mission did not find any evidence
to support the allegations that hospital facilities were used by the Gaza authorities or by Palestinian armed groups to shield military activities and that ambulances were used to transport combatants or for other military purposes.”
And then the canard about ‘Israel left, Gazans destroyed stuff’ first of all, so what? It’s their stuff.
But to answer the charge, there was some looting of some greenhouses for the wiring and the pumps – imagine, in one of the most impoverished places on the planet, the occupiers purposely leave a security vacuum and then there was looting of shiny new objects by the victims of the occupiers…
And the worst part is, that occupation continues to this day. Not only the Goldstone Report and the entire world community hold that Gaza is still occupied, so does Israel’s High Court and just ask the Israeli Foreign Ministry who has complete authority over Gaza…
Here are lessons on slanting and distorting events without telling a(n) (easily) provable outright lie:
As far as your “evidence” – don’t try and convince me, I have no idea why no one would consider your logical fallacy, in other words your “appeal to authority” of some ex-Brit officer touting the IDF official line. It nearly matches the IDF’s prose word for word.
“Some ex-Brit officer” – note the attempt to make the commander of British forces in Afghanistan out to be an insignificant ex-soldier.
“touting the IDF official line” – Implication: Israel fed him his script. This is not his honest independently-arrived-at conclusion.
Hasbara used to actually work before the Internet and Satellite TV, now it does not not.
A baseless yet unprovable claim. Several internet blogs have, in fact, shown that Photoshop is liberally used to make Israeli-caused damage seem much worse than it really was.
The fact is, Israel did use Gaza civilian as human shields… If soldiers did so it was against command orders, not as policy. Unfortunately, there will always be individuals who violate orders concerning battlefield behavior. Note the implication that this is official Israeli battlefield conduct.
…and furthermore they were caught in a lie when they tried to claim that militants were firing from a UN compound.
Ehud Olmert said the IDF was fired upon from the UN building. Ban Ki Moon said they weren’t. If anything, this sounds like a battlefield mistake, similar to the one that saw IDF members killed in a friendly-fire incident.
Indeed, Goldstone’s mission found no credible evidence that Palestinian militants used civilians as shields.
If you come up with hard evidence, contact the Office for the High Commissioner of Human Rights at the UN.
Baloney.
Goldstone said they couldn’t prove that Hamas deliberately herded civilians into areas they were launching attacks from, nor was there evidence that they didn’t allow civilians to flee.
Remember, much of the “evidence” came from Hamas-supplied witnesses.
And what about the fact that the launch sites were deliberately set up in civilian areas to begin with? Why isn’t that considered “using human shields”? Having out-of-uniform combatants fighting from among civilians is a clear violation of Geneva convention rules.
“On the basis of the investigations it has conducted, the Mission did not find any evidence to support the allegations that hospital facilities were used by the Gaza authorities or by Palestinian armed groups to shield military activities and that ambulances were used to transport combatants or for other military purposes.”
Using ambulances, UN vehicles and other emergency vehicles is a tried-and-true tactic used against Israel. The soldiers abducted and murdered by Hezbolla in the north were tricked by terrorists using UN vehicles. There is a well-known youtube video of a Palestinian ambulance caught transporting an explosive suicide-bomber belt.
And then the canard about ‘Israel left, Gazans destroyed stuff’ first of all, so what? It’s their stuff.
Canard? It’s an undisputed fact.
But to answer the charge, there was some looting (complete destruction) of some (all) greenhouses for the wiring and the pumps – imagine, in one of the most impoverished places on the planet, the occupiers purposely leave a security vacuum and then there was looting of shiny new objects by the victims of the occupiers…
(“…purposely leave a security vacuum…” as opposed to… the IDF staying?)
They were simple childlike creatures who didn’t realize they were destroying valuable greenhouses donated to them by philanthropic Jews. All they saw was “shiny new objects”.
And the worst part is, that occupation continues to this day. Not only the Goldstone Report and the entire world community hold that Gaza is still occupied, so does Israel’s High Court…
Baloney.
Goldstone and a some organizations have that position.
Israel disagrees vehemently.
As I explained above, that definition of “occupation”, and the comparison Goldstone makes to WWII Denmark defy common sense.
Once again on the fact that Israel still occupies Gaza by it’s own design, let me offering the following.
Notwithstanding the fact that Ban Ki-Moon has affirmed that Gaza is still occupied by Israel and that his spokesperson also affirmed that nothing less than UN Security Council action can change that fact.
Let me punctuate that with the following from Israel’s own government.
In the first version of Ariel Sharon’s “Disengagement Plan” from April 16, 2004 here’s an excerpt from the Main Points section:
“1. Israel will evacuate the Gaza Strip, including all existing Israeli towns and villages, and will redeploy outside the Strip. This will not include military deployment in the area of the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt (“the Philadelphi Route”) as detailed below.
2. Upon completion of this process, there shall no longer be any permanent presence of Israeli security forces or Israeli civilians in the areas of Gaza Strip territory which have been evacuated.
3. As a result, there will be no basis for claiming that the Gaza Strip is occupied territory.”
Here’s the adopted version of May 28, 2004 “Disengagement Plan from the Main Points section that contains some pertinent revisions:
“1) The State of Israel will evacuate the Gaza Strip, including all existing Israeli towns and villages, and will redeploy outside the Strip. This will not include military deployment in the area of the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt (“the Philadelphi Route”) as detailed below.
2) Upon completion of this process, there shall no longer be any permanent presence of Israeli security forces in the areas of Gaza Strip territory which have been evacuated.”
Hmmm, there’s no paragraph three ending the occupation. And the term “Israeli civilians” have been removed from paragraph two.
Of course to international legal authorities, including Richard Goldstone, the fact that the final plan says “The State of Israel will guard and monitor the external land perimeter of the Gaza Strip, will continue to maintain exclusive authority in Gaza air space, and will continue to exercise security activity in the sea off the coast of the Gaza Strip…” – that pretty much says it all, Israel claims “exclusive authority,” and as that authority, Israel legally occupies the Gaza Strip.
bbs
does that merit that hamas should kill civilians using rockets
even if Israel is wrong two wrongs don’t make a right (they should’ve went to america (or the rest of the u.n. with this claim.
mbachur,
Perhaps you do not understand, I have always held that Palestinians who fire rockets indiscriminately at civilians are committing a war crime.
However most Israeli “supporters” often argue that “two wrongs make a right” which is a pet peeve of mine since it is incorrect.
I am quite sure that nearly every mother on the planet tells their children that “two wrongs DO NOT make a right” as a matter of schoolyard/backyard routine.
Actions by Palestinian militant groups do not under any circumstances relieve Israel of its responsibilities under international law.
Israel is excruciatingly well aware of this. That is why the state is going out of its way, through a massive propaganda effort that they themselves are advertising, in an effort to discredit the mandate of the UN Mission or Richard Goldstone himself, without ever addressing the fact that they refused to take part in the report yet Hamas did, and Israel refuses to even acknowledge and of the substance of the report.
That strategy is obviously failing badly and damaging Israel.
The longer Israel continues to ignore the findings of fact contained in the report, the more grave the consequences for Israel’s national image in the world and its very future.
Israel can throw away that rhetorical absurdity “the IDF is the most moral army in the world” because there is now evidence that the IDF commits war crimes and possible crimes against humanity and yet refuses to bring the perpetrators to justice.