14 Responses

1. The “Chief Rabbi” is a government employee whose first duty is to the government. If he wants to be respected posek, he should stop taking a salary from the secularists.

   R. Elyashiv is a gadol who is not employed by the state.

   It’s surprising they ever agree.

2. There are to my knowledge, very, very few Rabbanim in support of Brain Death criteria in the U.S. or Israel. The brain death criteria do NOT work. We have seen many cases now that have met brain death criteria, but due to one reason or another did not have their life support turned off right away and shortly thereafter woke up and had a FULL recovery.

   Someone needs to get to Rabbi Metzger and tell him the truth of what is going on. While there is great need for organs, there is also a powerful industry that lives off of “harvesting organs” from “brain dead” patients and there is a huge pressure form both of these (need and greed) pushing these types of laws through.

   Our hospital had a middle aged Indian woman patient who had a documented 25 minute loss of any heart beat without any CPR during the same time frame and who then subsequently was resuscitated and failed 3 brain death exams, showing NO sign of any brain function. The next morning she awoke and within 3 weeks she returned home with a 100% complete recovery. Ours is not the only case.

   Rav Elyashiv is the posek hador for great reason.

3. akuperma – I think you are forgetting that HaRav Elyashiv worked as a Dayan for the Israeli Cheif Rabbinate. Will you say the same about him?

   Rav Elyashiv did not leave that Rabbinate because he realized he made a mistake to work for the government, but rather due to his opposition to the then hired Cheif Rabbi Shlomo Gordon.

   Although it is clear that Rav Metzger is not on the madreiga of Rav elyashiv, non-the-less he is certainly a kosher Rav who is fitting to paskin even in these issues (and as the article says he is not alone).

   The problem here is that this is not a case of your posek, my posek, but rather what psak will be excepted for the klal. Being that Rav Elyashiv’s psak (and if I’m not mistaken I believe Rav Moshe, z”l held the same) has till now been the excepted psak, I fear that this may blow up into a big controversy. The best policy for us to take (in my opinion) is to silently watch from the sidelines and see how this plays out. Otherwise, we risk falling prey to gross Lashon Horah or Motzei Shem Ra!

4. R. Elyashiv is a gadol who is not employed by the state — Was R. Elyashiv a gadol when he was a dayan on the govt beis din? or are his decisions from that time to be eradicated?

   Toras Chaim is alive, well and differing in opinion as difference bt Yerushalayim and Bnei Brak in many halachic areas. Guys, find something else to fight over!

5. #1
   …and after being employed by the government for about fifty years, Rav Elyashiv still continues to recieve a state pension. Get your facts straight.

6. r metzger is not a rav of large enogph stature to argue with r eliashiv if he is going with the psakk of other rabonim that is fine but if this is his own shitah than he is out of place and only thinks him self worthy becuase of the kavod the goverment postion he holds gives him

7. Actually, the majority of MDs consider brain death (actually cessation of brainstem function) a much more reliable criterion of death than cessation of cardiac function. There are a number of ways to measure brain death, and this was the original problem with this method being agreed upon by the Rabbanim involved. For Rabbis accepting the brain death definition of clinical death, aside from Rav Metzger, one can also look to Rav Tendler. There are any number of others both in Israel and the US who also agree. One should note that many of these Rabbanim also hold medical degrees or Ph.D.s in biomedical fields.

   That is not to say that some Rabbanim disagree with this; most notably, Rav Elyashiv. While we are certainly required to respect Rav Elyashiv and his opinions, we do not all paskin by him, and there are other legitimate Rabbinical authorities who disagree on this issue.

   To delegitimize Rabbinical authorities with whom we disagree is a denail of Jewish tradition dating back to Tannaic times, and only fosters sinat chinam.

8. R’ Elyashiv says vote Degel.

   R’ Ovadiah Yosef says vote Shas.

   Both are ‘Daas Torah’.

9. I may be wrong but I believe Rabbi Metzger, who is according to most no where near the Level of Maran Yosef or Rav Elyashiv Shlia, is simply holding By the Shita of Reb Moshe ZTZL… I could be wrong but I have heard that Reb Moshe held that after a heart stopped beating that it would be assur to call 911 on shabbos…I could be wrong and Im sure I will find out if I am..

10. Starwolf, Rav Moshe Tendler is the leader of the very, very few poskim who agree that brain death is valid criteria halachakically for death. Rav Moshe Tendler’s basis was the original Harvard Criteria Brain Death Criteria study that concluded that no one who met that criteria ever recovered. 10 years ago this may still have been a debate, it simply is not the case anymore. Recent reported cases indicate that brain death criteria are usually valid, but not always. A recent example is a young head trauma patient who was declared brain dead at a regional trauma center, after 3 well done brain function exams and even underwent a brain perfusion study, all of which confirmed no brain perfusion or function. The young man woke up 36 hours later and within one week had left the hospital in essentially full recovery and at six months had only very mild memory impairment. Brain Death Criteria and brain perfusion studies simply are not conclusive and most poskim do NOT accept it. Those poskim who still cling to the criteria, are basing their psak on old information and need to be made aware of these cases and should re-analyze the matter.

11. Does this mean that Rabbi Metzger would allow the plug to be pulled for those who are brain dead?

12. I understand that Maran Harav Ovadia Yosef holds by these transpalnts. He is without doubt the Posek for sefardim and Gadol Hador for all of us.
    I do not believe that the machlokes is based on the different shitos between askenazim and sephardim.

13. Dr. D, I am aware of the problems associated with the citeria for brain death. Despite the recovery of pateients who have been diagnosed with cessation of brain funciton, it is still by far the best criterion that we have–much more reliable than cessation of cardiac function. It is true that experience over the last several years has shown that we must be cautious, and detailed scans are required, but those are the specific halachic critera that the Rabbanim are attempting to establish for organ donation.

    I am not aware of the example you posted; if you have a reference for the case, I would appreciate your posting it.

    There is a clear debate about brain death among Rabbanim–but not really among neurologists or cardiologists about which is the more reliable indicator of clinical death. Would you not agree with this?

    I also submit to yu that the majority of those Rabbanim who are also educated in medical disciplines do support the brain-death criterion. Although, in all honesty, I do not feel that this is a contest to be determined by “majority rules”. So while I am interested, at an academic level, in what “most poskim” accept, I would not favor an halachic decision based on that. It’s more of a question of which posek that one follows, based on general hashkafa.

14. Ummm… When I said Rav Moshe Imeant Beshaem Rav Moshe Fienstien ZTZL. I repeat that I believe Rav Metzger is following his psak…