Justice Minister Prof. Yaakov Ne’eman during a Tuesday afternoon visit to the home of Maran Rav Elyashiv Shlita discussed the landmark High Court of Justice ruling demanding equal funding for Reform Movement conversions. The court ruled that national government funding for conversion programs must now be distributed equally, and the state was ordered to retroactively make payment to the Reform Movement for its last three years of conversion classes.
The Gadol Hador expressed concern and was pained over hearing of the decision, which was handed down earlier in the day in response to a petition filed by the Israel Movement for Progressive Judaism (Reform Movement), claiming it is discriminated against vis-à-vis government funding for its conversion program. The court agreed and stated that Israeli law, which guarantees freedom of religion, compels the state to allocate equal funding for conversion programs. Rav Elyashiv stated he was extremely troubled over hearing of the court’s decision.
A spokesman for the Reform Movement told Israel Radio following the decision that the ruling was most significant and it represented a major victory for Reform Jewry in Eretz Yisrael.
As was reported earlier by YWN, Minister Ne’eman escorted Mr. Noam Shalit to the Gadol HaDor’s home. Mr. Shalit was seeking a bracha and tefillos on behalf of Gilad’s release. Rav Elyashiv also asked Klal Yisrael to dedicate Shavuos learning to Gilad.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
18 Responses
The Gadol Hador is machshav these people as Jews. Do you think he’d ever treat them with less than
complete respect? How about learning a lesson from him? If you reject it, then according to your own standards, you reject your own “Orthodoxy.”
Number 1: “These” people ARE NOT JEWISH!!! They were converted by a non-jewish movement (reform, conservative, reconstructionist) that is NOT JEWISH. They still maintain they’re status as NON-JEWS despite their phony “conversion”.
#1 Why are you chosheid b’kesheirim? Of course we treat Reform Jews – born of a Jewish [h’hallachah] mother, or converted [k’hallachah] Jews – with no less than complete respect, as Maran Rav Elyashiv does.
Individuals who do NOT fit in either of these categories, such as those born of a Jewish [k’hallachah] father and non-Jewish [k’hallachah] Mother, or those who are not converted [k’hallachah] Jews, are NOT Jewish – notwithstanding what the reform sect might call them. We treat these people with respect, but we don’t treat them as Jews.
On the other hand, reform clerics, who are choteh and machateh es harabim, we treat with the vilification they deserve. And, I daresay, Maran Rav Eliyashiv threats them similarly.
To: MashiachNow23 — In X-ianity, you just sprinkle the “holy” water on someone and Poof, you’re a x-tian! The most basic, fundamental requirement (among others) in true conversion to Judaism is acceptance of Ohl Malchut Shamayim, of Ohl Torah u’mitzvot! Someone who “converts” with no intention of keeping the mitzvot, no intention of halachic observance of Shabbat, Kashrut, Taharat HaMishpacha, etc., etc. is clearly NOT a Jew, and the “conversion” is a farce!
If you accept zionism, with its goal of freeing Jewish people from the “old-fashioned” yoke of Torah and Mitzvos, then you are stuck allowing the Israeli government to change halacha. That is why the gedolim were very reluctant to support zionism, and still are less than enthusiastic. From a zionist perspective, “Jewish” is something from the “dark ages” and the replacement is “Israeli.”
To become an American, you pass a “mickey mouse” test on American civics and promise to become a loyal American – no religious requirement. The hilonim were maskim to make conversion a requirement for Israeli citizenship, and all they want is to follow the American model with none of “this” religious stuff thrown in.
The best alternative would be for the frum Israelis to be content to be a Jewish minority in the Israeli state, and pursue autonomy as a minority. However if you want to be zionist, then the Kenesset (of whom maybe a quarter are Shomer Shabbos Jews) becomes the supreme halachic authority.
#2, I think that when #1 said “these people” he meant Yaakov Neeman and Noam Shalit, not the people who were reform converted
I am insiped at how in-touch the Gadol is. We are told how the charedim reject the state or act passivly to it. This shows that the Rabbi shlita wants the best for all the residents of Israel, and for a true Jewish place
Chaverim – MashiachNow23 is right.
You ignore or miss the faqct that in connection with most of these “conversions” there is a Jewish partner and other family. And you miss another, even more basic point.
We are commanded to love all Jews, even the misguided – even those who intellectually disagree with us. Strident, self-rightious hostility is not going to bring anybody closer to Torah. It merely “confirms” for too many that frume Yidden represent just one more group of parochial insular crazies.
Get out of Brooklyn, Monsey, Lakewood or wherever you are . . . and talk to your fellow Jews – show them the beauty and emes of Torah . . and hang your anger at the door when you do.
To: WOLFFMAN, Sorry, but you and Mashiachnow are BOTH wrong! We DO love all REAL Jews, frum or not! No one here is attacking non-frum (tinok she’nishba)Jews. What we ARE attacking is BOGUS conversions of NON-Jews with a bogus process by a non-Torah based movement that can cause untold grief to klal Yisrael if not exposed and stopped!
AynOdMilvado1 – I do not disagree with your basic point – but I still think too much anger oozes out of people here. Remember that the bogus conversions are not mere inanimate objects to be fought against – it is real people, tinok she’nishba themselves(and that includes their “rabbis”) that push for these bogus conversions.
I claim no purity regarding the anger question, by the way – but I learned an important lesson on the issue from my daughter.
Once some years ago I was expressing annoyance – even anger – about a particular baal t’shuvah’s persistant “refusal” to respect or grasp some very elementry points about k’vod Ha Torah; my daughter, then seminary age, smiled at me and said simply, “Tatti – stay out of kiruv!”
2: I’m talking about reformed Jews. What makes you think they are not Jewish?
3: You say “of course.” Well, I’m reading these comments on this page, and obviously your b’seser behavior is wildly different from that of the in-person conduct of the Gadol HaDor. Unless you have the guts, if that’s what you’d call it to defame anyone al pnei’hem.
4: You totally didn’t read my post. So reread it. you didn’t address a single thing I said.
6: Thank you, you are exactly right.
9: I’m not sure what forum you are reading and who you consider this “we” to be, but my point was look how the Gadol HaDor treats Jews with respect. If what you’re reading here represents the same level of respect to you, than you are reading some other set of comments I don’t see here.
To: MashiachNow23- What you are failing to acknowledge is that a VERY substantial percentage of reform “Jews” are not Jews AT ALL! It is a well known fact that OVER 50% of reform Jews marry non-Jews! They may have undergone a bogus “conversion” to marry their Jewish mate, but they are still not Jewish, and if it is the mother that is a non-Jew, obviously the children are not Jewish. So when you speak of respect for all Jews, this is not relevant to these pseudo-jews or those reform “rabbis” who are creating this havoc for future generations by these fake conversions. Just as they consider traif foods to be kosher, just as they consider “traif” acts to be kosher, they are taking “traif” people (i.e. non Jews) and calling them kosher (i.e. Jews.) Furthermore I don’t know where YOU see that R’ Elyashiv “respects” these people. What I read was that he was “concerned”, “pained”, and “extremely troubled” over the court’s decision.
Wolffman – I think from your own words, especially from your daughter’s comments it is obvious that you’d be better off listening than commenting. “סיג לחכמה שתיקה”.
MashiachNow23 – I would venture to say that your alias lends insights to your yashkafas. You should know that when one sits in a specific camp (in this case Lubavitch) he tends to see the superiority of his camp and many times misjudges those of other camps. I have intimate connections with Lubavitch from the inside and know that when it comes to non-frum Jews many Lubavitchers tend to have a very distorted view of how the frum non-Chabad community views and relates to the non-Torah observant society. Although we differ greatly on how to mikarev our non-frum brethren, non-the-less there exist ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE between us on how to view them.
While Chabad holds, יהי ביתך פתוך לרוחה, even to the extent of potential damage to one’s kids, others hold that there needs to be a g’vul. For example, while Lubavitchers (depending on where they are) will send their kids to the same Cheder as the kids they are trying to mikarev, Litvaks in Kiruv will seek a purely frum cheder environment for their kids. The results are (and I’ve seen this with my own eyes) that many Lubavitch parents have to deal with outside influences such as foul language, sometimes drugs, and slacking of religious behavior that come from their non-religious classmates. The non-Chabad kiruv movement is just as dedicated to kiruv as Chabad, but not at the expense of their family.
Please trust me and change your views regarding your frum non-Chabad brethren. דן לכף זכות is a חיוב as is clear from Avos, Perek 1, Mishna 6 (see the meforshim there).
#8, Wolffman.
Just not sure of your point here. And if there are innocent people involved how does that change the battle we must wage against those who wish to distort Judaism?
By the way the, Rabbis……I just don’t even want to talk about these alleged Tinokis Shenishba. It can really ruin ones day.
IF THE COURT SYSTEM RULED THAT THE REFORM CONVERSIONS ARE VALID, THEN THAT MEANS IF THE BEIS DIN DOESN’T RECOGNIZE THEM AS JEWS, THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW?
AynOdMilvado1 — Really?? You don’t see a calm in person visit as respectful and you equate with your own vitriolic comments? Ha! Let me say that again. Ha!
I think the argument here is caused by a simple lack of knowledge.
For those of us, such as myself, who work in kiruv and interface with Conservative and Reform communities, the sad facts of countless non-Jews in these congregations speak for themselves.
MashiachNow is simply speaking from a lack of knowledge. However, MN, I’m not sure why “vitriolic comments” is helpful to the debate. I saw no vitriol in AynOdMilvado’s posts, just distress at the situation of false conversions. From the continuing dialogue I have read, I am wondering now if perhaps that does not bother you so much. I don’t know.
The Ha!” and general tone of your last post leads me to recommend a thread in the YWN coffee room, entitled “Anger Management Group Therapy”. Please don’t lose yourself when debating- you’re better than that.
Kol Hakavod to Yaakov Neeman.
He is a senior minister who has yirat shamayim ( I beleive he learnt at KBY) and wishes to consult with the Gedolei Hador even though he himself is more alligned with the Dati Leumi camp.
I believe he also arranged the meeting with Maran and Noam Shalit which had a big impact on the Shalit family and caused a tremendous kiddush hashem. I hope that Maran’s bracha will be answered and Gilad will be home with his family so.
However, lets all Daven for Gilad and as Maran requested have him in mind during our learning on Shavous.