(The following article appears in this weeks American Yated) Yerushalmis went to the polls Tuesday to elect a new mayor, and chose between a man on trial in France for arms trafficking and money laundering, a self-made millionaire who wants to build thousands of Jewish homes in the heart of an Arab neighborhood, and the scion of a renowned Agudah family supported by the vast majority of the Chareidi community.
The son of veteran Agudah leader, Menachem Porush, the seventh-generation Yerushalmi Meir Porush serves as a member of the Knesset and was formerly deputy housing minister. His candidacy was endorsed by all leading rabbonim, roshei yeshiva and Chassidic rabbeim, except for Ger. He began his political career when he was positioned by his father as a Yerushalayim city councilman. He is responsible for building thousands of homes in settlements in the West Bank and promised to bring 100,000 young people to Yerushalayim and offer affordable housing. He had thought that his efforts to bolster settlements would earn him the votes of Yerushalayim’s religious Zionists and put him over the top. The assumption was that the religious Zionists would join the great majority of Chareidim in voting for him and provide the plurality needed to beat back the secular candidate, Nir Barkat. But that was not to be. Regrettably, the religious community will no longer have their own man in the mayor’s chair in Yerushalayim’s City Hall.
Polls had forecasted that current Mayor Uri Lupolianski, a member of Degel Hatorah, would be able to coast to an easy victory had he run, based upon his performance during his term as mayor and his ability to serve the disparate group that comprise the populace of Yerushalayim. He is much respected for the Yad Sarah organization which he founded and heads. Yad Sarah services all residents of Israel, providing medical assistance with care and devotion and regardless of one’s religious beliefs.
However, due to a rotation agreement signed prior to the election of Lupoliansky, this year it was the turn of Agudas Yisroel to field a Chareidi candidate. Porush won that nod, despite polls that demonstrated that he could not win. An attempt by Aryeh Deri, formerly of Shas, to run in the election and capitalize on the fear that fielding only Porush would lead to the loss of a religious mayor of the Holy City was defeated by the courts. Deri was prevented from running due to a guilty verdict against him for crimes of moral turpitude several years ago.
When Deri failed in his appeal to the court to permit his candidacy, the Chareidi community coalesced in their support behind Porush, with every Chareidi leader and group, including Lubavitch, offering him their support, except for the Gerrer Rebbe and his followers who waged a bitter campaign against him.
In an attempt to win over secular voters, he pleaded with voters to “Judge me by my past successes, as minister of housing and of deputy mayor of the city, not by my beard,” he said. “So what if I have a long beard – what does that mean? That I’m not qualified?”
Barkat won the race by playing on the fears of secular residents that Porush would not govern as Lupoliansky, and would make their living in Yerushalayim untenable. The intercine Chareidi battles certainly didn’t help Porush claim the mantle and led to a defeat that has left many Yerushalmis devastated. The pain of inequities suffered under previous secular mayors still burns sharply in the hearts of many Yerushalmis.
JTA reported that “the apparent victory of a secular businessman in Jerusalem’s mayoral elections was greeted with relief by Israelis concerned about the increasing Orthodox character of the city.”
“To vote for Porush, who is a shomer shabbos Yid and a talmid chochom is a mitzvah,” said a voter we caught up with on Tuesday. “He will protect Yerushalayim from those who seek to undermine its kedushah. Plus, he will keep it united. The people who are running against him can’t be expected to do that.”
At every polling station in the religious areas, there were long lines of people waiting to carry out the obligation their rabbonim placed upon them to support the religious candidate. Gedolim such as Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, Rav Aharon Leib Shteinman and Rav Chaim Kanievsky urged all their followers to vote for Porush and not let Yerushalayim fall under secular leadership again.
Each of the three candidates said he would revitalize the city.
Barkat, 49, narrowly lost a campaign for mayor five years ago and now serves on the city council as head of opposition. A self-made Internet millionaire, he worked energetically to gain the votes of everyone outside of the Chareidi community. He had thousands of young, enthusiastic volunteers hand out leaflets and canvass door-to-door, convincing people to vote for him.
“The young people are leaving Yerushalayim,” his campaign literature warned. “This is a real danger to Yerushalayim’s future and causes a decline in the general standard of living in the city.”
Barkat laid out his plan to build thousands of new apartments for Jewish young people in East Jerusalem, which Israel occupied in the 1967 war and later annexed. “This land belongs to the municipality and has already been set aside for building,” Barkat said.
Barkat also wants to invest heavily in tourism infrastructure and bring 10 million visitors a year to Yerushalayim. He has some funny ideas, saying he would impose fines on the foreign owners of luxury apartments in Yerushalayim that are usually empty except for a few weeks during the summer and Yomim Tovim. He wants the owners to rent their apartments to students.
The most colorful mayoral candidate, who was least likely to win, was businessman Arkady Gaydamak. Born in Russia, he moved to Israel and spent most of his life in France before returning to Israel in 2000. He got about 6% of the vote.
Forbes last year estimated Gaydamak’s wealth at $950 million, most of it allegedly earned in the arms trade with Angola; other media estimates place his wealth as high as $4 billion.
One of 42 defendants being tried in France for illegal arms dealing and tax evasion, Gaydamak has said he will attend the trial and prove himself innocent after the mayoral race is over.
Gaydamak won fans by buying the local soccer team and pouring money into it, as well as for his efforts to rescue the Bikur Cholim hospital from bankruptcy. He also paid to bomb-proof the roofs of the schools in Sderot when the government refused to do so. His campaign posters states, “Gaydamak doesn’t talk, he acts.”
Most of Gaydamak’s support came from Palestinians in East Jerusalem. Israel offered citizenship to Palestinians when it annexed the eastern half of the city in 1967, but few accepted. Most East Jerusalemites are not citizens but “residents” who carry Israeli-issued identity cards that give them freedom of movement and access to Israeli medical clinics and social security.
Gaydamak took out huge ads in Palestinian newspapers promising “social justice for all.”
Palestinians in East Jerusalem, who make up a third of the city’s population of 760,000, have traditionally not voted in municipal elections, saying that to do so would be recognition of Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem.
This year, as in the past, the PA called on East Jerusalemites not to vote. The mufti of Jerusalem, the most senior religious Muslim leader, issued a fatwa against running for office.
Nuha Musleh, a Palestinian journalist and translator, said he would not vote.
“Even though I believe in fighting for the services and our rights in the city, internationally and regionally, I won’t vote,” she said. “According to UN resolutions, Jerusalem is occupied land, and I’m not going to recognize Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem.”
(The Washington Post contributed to this article)
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45 Responses
I see everyone’s on the “Let’s beat up on Ger” bandwagon.
This is the Yated. I can assure you that the Hamodia will not write anything negative about Ger.
Guess what, if Get bandwagon is “Let’s beat up everyone who disagrees with Ger”, (Like beating up Abutbal’s wife in Beth Shemesh) then they shouldn’t expect any better treatment.
This article is dripping of sarcasm — typical of the dominating Yated.
I’d love to see them write all those nice things about M. Porush, had Lupoliansky ran, and Porush insisited on running along side him.
each posek has his reasons, so you could follow yours or..
but why didnt our GEDOLIM come out with a psak about Sinat Chinam during electioneering,
why didnt i hear them come out against CHILD ABUSE? etc, etc…
A Porush win would have been nice, but Barkat doesn’t seem like such a bad guy
Why did Ger not back him?
Rotation is valid for jobs that no one wants to do (such as cleaning up the shul after Shabbos). But how appropriate is it for a job of serving the community? Would you want to rotate your child’s rebbe among different candidates in order that all would get a chance, or would you prefer someone who is good at the job. The frum political parties should cooperate to pick someone based on abilities and competence, rather than treating elected office as a patronage prize.
The idea of rotation is very logical if one neither wants, nor could obtain, any control over the government, such as historically been the situation for Hareidim dealing with the zionist regime on a national level in Eretz Yisrael. In that situation, sitting in the knesset was a nice job, with no real discretation – and there was no chance you would have to run anything. However that is no longer the case, at least on a local level. With Shas leading the way, frum Jews are contesting for a role in actual decision making and public administration, which renders the old “rotation of representatives – patronage oriented” paradign obsolete, and suggests a new model for choosing candidates.
Wait, we haven’t heard from the Jewish Press yet. Will they too jump on the “let’s beat up on Ger” bandwagon, since the Hamodiah is allegedly a Gerrer newspaper? Or will true objective journalism win out at the Jewish Press and their editorial staff will realize that the Gerrer Rebbe Shlita has as much right to decide which candidate will be best as any other godol?
No, everyone’s still on the “let’s beat up on the chiloni” bandwagon, even though he is well qualified to run the city. I have met him, and he is enormously respectful of Torah and of the special character of Jerusalem. We should be davening that Hashem guide him properly, not dreading the prospect of working with him.
Did Ger have enough votes to put Porush over the top?
~Steinway
I don’t know why everybody decided to go after ger. first of all ger does not have 20,000 vote’s in yerushlaim. and if you look good at the results of each polling station you can clearly see that the litvish community did not vote strongly for porush, in matter of fact thier was about 17,000 people who did not vote for porush but instead put in a blank note, after all he was a big mechutzaf to 1) Maran Shlita 2) boyaner Rebbe 3)gerer rebbe. and someone who embarrasses gedolim is just like a chiloni. “melech shmuchal al kvodo ein kvodo muchal” even Maran Shlita said that we should vote for porush everybody knows it was just agreed upon because their was no other choice but as talimidim we know what their is supposed to be done…
Why is presenting the simple, clear, facts called beating up on Ger? They were very public about their battle against Porush, it was no secret, and is nothing they are ashamed of.
To #2 comment by brisker — November 12, 2008 @ 4:02 pm
The Hamodia would never write anything bad on any godol let it be litfish or chsshiis.
“At every polling station in the religious areas, there were long lines of people waiting to carry out the obligation their rabbonim placed upon them to support the religious candidate. ”
I’m new to this website,but i can’t believe an objective reporter would write this. Does he/she honestly believe that it’s obligatory for a chareidi citizen to vote the way their rebbe says to? What if he privately disagrees? The rabbi may be concerned about the future kedusha of the city, but maybe this one chareidi citizen thinks that more efficient garbage disposal is more important to him than the kedusha of the city. Isn’t that the point of voting, after all?? To vote for the candidate whom we agree with regarding the issues WE CHOOSE, be it any issue. Obligation???? Please .Don’t turn elections in Jerusalem into the “re-election” of Saddam Hussein. Remember that? 99.9% of the population voted for him because they were intimidated by him.
moshegren,
“Does he/she honestly believe that it’s obligatory for a chareidi citizen to vote the way their rebbe says to?”
Absolutely.
“What if he privately disagrees?”
He does what his Rov/Rebbe says anyways.
“but maybe this one chareidi citizen thinks that more efficient garbage disposal is more important to him than the kedusha of the city.”
Hes wrong.
Whilst I personally disagreed with running Porush as the chareidi candidate for many reasons (check YWN Coffee Room – Porush (NOT) for Mayor), I actually “held my nose” and voted for him thereby following the request of my Rabbonim. I think though that this article is extremely unfair and biased.
Barkat beat Porush by about 19,000 votes (9-10% of the valid votes) so even if ALL the Gerrers with their wives and children voted Barkat (something extremely unlikely) that would total about 4000 votes only.
In certain litvish areas such as Sorotzkin, Ezras Torah and Beit Vegan there were surprisingly large numbers of Barkat votes and even larger numbers of either blank slips or “Kovod HaTorah” papers (invalid votes) so the blame is also largely directed to the litvish community. From the Dati Leumi areas, Porush did as expected and the chiloni turnout was much higher than last time, another problem for Porush.
Understandably the Yated points the blame at Ger but in fact there is a strong feeling of anxiety in the higher echelons of Degel HaTorah that the community no longer follows blindly behind the Kol Koreh from the Gedolim. Until recently the askonim could rely on the support of the rank and file chareidim at elections as long as they had the necessary endorsements of the Rabbonim. It mattered little whether the candidate was popular or successful. These elections (and similarly the one last year in Betar) have shown that the chareidi populace has been influenced by the chilonim and each man does what he wants. Porush was unpopular in many circles (besides Ger) and this was reflected in the results. Rav Eliashiv, Rav Steinman and Rav Kanievsky all personally signed letters calling for full support for Porush but this didnt have the desired effect.
Another proof of this change is the success of the “Tov” parties. This began in Betar last year and was continued in Bet Shemesh now. Tov is a breakaway party from Degel HaTorah mainly consisting of working families who suffer from difficulties getting their children into good schools and yeshivos because they work. It is mainly litvish with some modern chassidim too, all who feel ostracised by the main Aguda/Degel parties and have joined up to be a recognized force and are running in local elections in their own way. They have almost no Rabbinical backing or support but have done surprisingly well both in Betar and now in Beit Shemesh. Some see this as a protest vote against the Aguda/Degel askonim who ignore the needs of the young working families and concentrate only on the Yeshivos/Kollelim crowds. Tov denies this and claims to be made up of local people who are only interested in the local city without any ambitions for furthering their careers in Knesset. Rav Steinman actually specially went to Beit Shemesh to speak out against this trend but it seems again to have been unsuccessful. Degel is petrified that they will continue their success in more cities and eventually stand as popular candidates for Knesset too.
Many blame these trends on some of the popular weekly newspapers/magazines (Hamishpacha, Hashovua, Bakehilla etc.) who are not affiliated with any party nor do they have Rabbinical censorship like the Hamodia and Yated. These papers write anything and everything including all the behind the scenes loshon hora about what goes on between the askonim and between the Gedolim etc. This has created a feeling of distrust and coldness to the Gedolim and this has now reached active disobedience. Recently the Gedolim have attempted to warn of the dangers of these papers but the papers have succesfully deflected the criticism by blaming Yated for arranging these attacks for financial reasons as these papers are more popular and therefore are causing less advertisements and readers to turn to the Yated.
The situation is VERY serious and articles in Yated as that one here are self-destructive as people just realize that Yated is once again sweeping the problems and the truth under the carpet. How can the situation improve if the Yated is in denial of the sad facts?
The cheshbon hanefesh that is needed now is much deeper and worrying than the short-term disagreement with Ger, inside the kehillah there are major problems that are being ignored and this has now surfaced in these elections.
HaShem, HaShem please help us now, to rebuild the emunas chachomim, to reunify all klal yisroel and thereby tobe zoche to Moshiach Tzidkenu
I just heard a startling fact.The gerrer went so far as to wake up secular people 4am to go and vote for porush thus infuriating these residents to come out strongly against him. Now i want to ask all those backing gerr DID THE rebbe TELL THEM TO DO THIS AS WELL?! THIS IS AN UGLY CHILUL HASHEM WHICH HAS NO LOGICAL EXPLANATION OTHER THAN SELFISHNESS!
Re # 17 – Truehonesty, Thank you – very imformative.
As an aside, you’ll never see an article in Yated critical of the Livish community. The Yated is a more a party-line paper, and less a journalistic news source, than are some of the better secular papers that are regularly trashed here as being full of “Liberal lies.”
RoshYeshivah-
And how, pray tell, do you know this “fact”? Were you woken up? Was someone you know woken up? Did the person who made the call indicate that he’s calling on behalf of Ger?
Hating is easy.
Think before you write something”someone told you…”
Self Hating Jew.
RoshYeshivah-
And how, pray tell, do you know this “fact”? Were you woken up? Was someone you know woken up? Did the person who made the call indicate that he’s calling on behalf of Ger?
Hating is easy.
Think before you write something “someone told you…”
Self Hating Jew.
To Joseph,
Your comments illustrate succinctly the need for a vote in which individual opinions are respected.
Your conviction that the word of the rebbe is 100% truth, almost to the point of being divine or divinely inspired, is worrisome, especially in this situation where different rebbes each tell their followers that their positions are 100% truth, with zero room for compromise or understanding with the other side. This inevitably leads to deep resentment on both sides, evidenced even by the comments left on this website.
I don’t believe for one second that every decision the rabannim make is altruistic and with good intentions. In fact, i believe many political decisions of the rabbis are made with personal benefit and power politics in mind. After all, they are only human. One can respect the opinion of the rebbe without having to agree and bend one’s will to his, except in halachic decisions of course. Politics has never been, or never will be in the realm of halacha, and therefore the rebbe has no business there. In fact, his very presence leads to chillul Hashem.
Since when does Yated call Lubavitch “chareidi”?
Mamesh Ikvesa D’Mshicha.
moshegren,
The Rabbonim belong in EVERY aspect of a Yid’s life.
Let me be very clear!
I am a Gerer Chossid, and I am telling everyone that I do not endorse any foul play on the part of people who call themselves Gerer Chassidim. The real Chassidim are those that view Ger as a Derech in Avoidas Hashem and not as a political party.
We must all be very careful about talking about Gedoilei Yisroel no matter who they are.
Let us buckle up and focus on Rotzoin Hashem and be mechazek in Achdus, because even though we may differ on the choice of Mayor in Yerushalayim, there is an overwhelming amount of common ground that all Yidden share!
Moshegren,
You have little faith in Tzadikkim. I agree that not every “Rabbi” can make these decisions for you, but if you are connected to a Tzadik? A Tzadik knows what is right! Now your job is to find one and get connected to him.
#23 the maskil:
Pray tell, why would they not be reffered to as chareidim?
Today is a day that every Gerrer chasid should hold his head up with pride that he is part of a kehilla that still listens to its manhig, a chasidus that obeys its Rebbe. They should take it as a huge compliment that the Rebbe shlit”a felt confident enough to make such an unpopular decision, knowing that his chasidim would be with him 100%. Ashreichem. If only all of us followed our manhigim the way we should, without question, without second-guessing, chances are our situation would be immensely better in many areas. It is your critics that should bury themselves with shame, not you.
#20 I think you should think twice about calling somebody a self-hating jew. As for where i got my fact it is obvious that you aren’t very involved here cuz it’s clear to everyone in jerusalem that they made an absolute chilul hashem with campaigning against porush and thats without the consent of the Rebbe!
The only tikun for sinas chinam is ahavas chinam. Everyone who reads this, please say the following declaration:
I hereby declare that even though I take a particular position with regard to Israeli politics, elections, and related issues (as I have been instructed by my Rabbis and teachers), and act in accordance with this position and try to persuade others of its rightness, it is in no way my intention or desire to allow my holding this position to cause any form of personal discord between myself and any other Jew, even those who hold with positions that differ from or are opposed to mine, or who are affiliated with groups and organizations that differ or are opposed to any group or organization with which I am affiliated. To the contrary, l hereby declare my firm resolve and determination to fulfill the precious mitzva of loving all my fellow Jews and of treating them with all the love and respect and bestowing on them all the forms of chessed that are required our holy and beloved Torah, however they may hold concerning all the issues mentioned above, even those that are most dear to me and however strenuously we may oppose each other on those issues aud their practical implications, or whatever affiliations they may have that may differ from mine. In the merit of our fulfilling the mitzvos of the holy Torah, may HaKadosh Boruch Hu have compassion on His people and bring the Geula Shleima speedily in our days.
Lets call a spade a spoade.
The Gerrer Rebbe is a very astute and wealthy business man. When Porush campaigned to stop Litzman taking more than their far share of government funding at the cost to children from developing towns Ger threatened Porush to keep quiet or he will be punished.
Porush stood up for Yosher and the Gerrers punished him by campaigning against him- While their rebbe hid in Arad.
The tragedy is that Yerushalayim and every Hareidi jew is also suffering!!
moshegren
you are mammash an apikoros
Porush can only blame himself and his arrogance for failure. He made every chiloni run to vote against him when he openly said (without an ounce of common sense) “Soon there will only be charedi mayors in the whole Israel”. Which normal person says that before an election???????
To Yochi,
You hit the nail on the head. Absolutely correct, i have little faith in Man-made Tzaddikim, or Dynastic Tzaddikim. Only G-d can tell me who is good and who is evil. For you to label anyone a Tzaddik, or even worse, a rasha, is to take on for yourself the role of G-d, that of judgement.
I truly believe that G-d may consider a Chiloni more of a tzaddik than the men on any moetzes hatorah. We all know that G-d’s judgement is infinitely complicated, taking into account whether you fulfilled your potential, your background. The “gadol” may have grown up in a religiious home, while the chiloni did not. “Therefore it’s entirely possible that G-d savors the one mitzvah a chiloni performs over the many that a “gadol” may perform. Who are we to dare take on the role of the Divine, to assume the prerogative of judgement?
If you know the story of Pentakakah from the yerushalmi, then you might know what i’m talking about.
Now you can surely understand why i’m concerned when chareidim blindly follow the word of their Tzaddik. The Mishna tells us to get for ourselves a REBBE, not that it doesnt say to get a Tzddik, because we obviously don’t know who is or isnt righteous. Superficially we may, but G-d judges the hearts of man, not the exterior.
And to Notpashut, i think your comment shows the worst tendency of Chareidi society, an arrogance that leads you to believe that you have all the answers and anyone different or who days to disagree is an apikores.
You ought to to look up in Sanhendin the characteristics that make a man an apikiores. I don;t think having a healthy skepticism about a dynastic tzaddik is one of them.
Now that we’re on the topic, can;t you see the absurdity of that, having a dynasty of tzaddikim in a Chassidic sect?? Since when does righteousness pass on to your children?? Righteousness is something that has to be worked on tirelessly, endlessly. It can’t be pinned onto your lapel by your followers.
Getting back to Chareidis, like i said above, i have little patience for any man or tzaddik who enters into judgement with his fellow Jew, dead or alive, whether he’s judging the Vilna Gaon or Theodore Herzl. I once had the opportunity to open up the Satmar Rebbe’s book about Zionism, and afterwards i felt sick to my stomach. Just read the first paragraph and you won;t be able to keep track of the number of times he calls them evil, sinners, apikorsim, etc….. That’s not the model i want my children to follow. They need to read and hear about Gedolim who praise the Jewish people, not who marginalize entire sectors of Judaism. marginalizing jews is the ultimate sinnas chinom, We need to hate the deed, not the person.
moshegren:
You would feel very at home with the Reform.
I agree, MosheGren is a liberal bordering on apikores. There are standards that we need to live up to. The Satmar Rebbe ZTZ’L was a kodosh Vetohor who had such ahavas yisroel if you would read stories about him you would be amazed. He loved Yiddishkeit so much that he was able to go against his nature of loving every creature and have kaanois (that you call sina) against yidden he loved for the sake of his beloved nation. When Eliyahu Hanavi comes with the Besura Tova of Moshiach and straightens out all our Questions and misunderstandings, the Satmar Rebbe’s ahavas yisroel will be much more apparent to you than that of Theodor Herzl.
There are so many stories flying around based on individual’s opinion, at this point why don’t we find out the reasoning the Gerrer Rebbe choose to vote for a chiloni. Sometimes what seems to be clear now is not the case, sometime down the road maybe we will see the true wisdom of all this. In meantime, all this Loshen Hora, anger down right hate is not enamoring ourselves to HASHEM. Now, that is the point of our lives.
Funny- All this time i thought you were an apikores if you denied the existence of G-d or the resurrection of the dead, but now we have a revisionist theory: You’re an apikores if you deny the infallibility of the Satmar Rebbe. Sounds a lot like what Catholics believe about the Pope.
moshegren
in case you didn’t notice the gemara in sanhedrin says that an apikores is someone who says “my ahani lei rabbanan” THAT IS YOU!!!
to say all jews are wonderful is absurd. the passuk says “misanecha hashem esneh – tachlis sinah soneisim”
i guess you were absent that day in school
rebshalom –
The Skvere Rebbe told doctors where to perform surgery.
And they were astounded when he was proven correct.
MosheGren, thank you for reminding us about the morning brocha, ‘gave wisdom to understand the difference bt day and night”. Using sechel and personal understanding is the factor in being a true avad hashem. Politics is like a ferris wheel, you are up at times and down at others. You said it well.
TOv, TOv, TOV MEOOD….sounds like the future will be in the hands of bnei torah who are also involved in parnosa and are tired of being IGNORED.
Once again as said by many, MPorush was the wrong candidate for the job, Mayor U. L. was a winner and should have continued in his job.
Notpashut
You’re right- I’m mixing up apikorsus and Kefirah.
However, My ahani lei rabanan refers to one who denigrates talmdei chachamim, and if you;ll read carefully, you’ll notice i have not once denigrated or ridiculed them. I have tried hard to remain respectful. My point is that they cannot be relied upon exclusively for all matters, eg Science, as Rebbe admitted in Pesachim.
Now if Rebbe admitted that the Greeks/Romans knew better than Chazal when it came to science, then certainly there are areas of knowledge that modern day rabonim are lacking. This is a good thing, don’t get me wrong. We want people to specialize in specific areas, such as one doctor for the heart and one for the gut We don’t want one doctor to specialize in everything, because then his knowledge will be a mile wide and an inch deep. We want our rabanim to specialize in halacha and to leave politics for politicians.
“CitizenofBerlin”, glad you have found a soulmate in “moshegren”!! (I am also grateful that I am not the only one who disagrees with both of you!!)
As I have told you before, if you would use at least as much inteligence to try to understand the Gedolim as you seem to use to skeptic their holy words, you would have a much more balanced outlook at life!!
All the very best!
Oi vey my dear friend of Berlin, we have much to discuss… Maybe indeed the “chotzer” of a Rebbe may be the right place to do this or even maybe the Bais Hamedrash of a litvish yeshiva!!
The one thing you seem to disregard in all your comments is HaShem and the siyyata dishmaya that he provides. The Gedolim are not necessarily smarter than you or more knowledgable in politics than you, they are however people who are saturated with Torah and mitzvos and therefore HaShem considers them as his servants “עבדי השם”. It is indeed to such holy people that HaShem provides true siyyata dishmaya and their decisions are divinely led. To someone whose mind is continually being osek baTorah then their decisions are Torah based. It is well known that the Steipler zatzal said about Rav Shach zatzal that even his “הוה אמינא” (first thoughts) are daas Torah because his mind was constantly immersed in Torah. One of the reasons to go to ask Rabbonim is to utilize their siyyata dishmaya (not to search necessarily for wisdom or yeshuos).
A decision that a Gadol may make, may sometimes seem to be an error. The most famous example is the often quoted advice that was given to many people in prewar Europe not to escape. This too is wrong. The decision was correct according to the Master Plan. Maybe these people would have escaped and later become apikorsim and caused untold damage to their neshomos (מוטב שימות זכאי וכו) or maybe they would have been caught and made to suffer much more than by staying at home…. who can know? How can we ever know what is right or wrong decisions?
I am saddened that you feel that negius is an issue here. Do you have any personal connections with any Godol? I am sure that were you to really get to know one you would understand. Their levels of yiras shomayim are so high that personal negius is not possible. There actions are so geared to רצון השם that partisan interests just fall away. These are people who feel gehinom all day and every day and check each word and action under microscopic care to ensure their honesty and correctness. A famous parable to explain this…. Two ice skaters were racing each other across a lake with a large reward to the winner. About halfway one of them feels the ice beneath him cracking and he is on the verge of falling in the icy waters and drowning. Does he still dream of the large reward or is he only interested in saving his life now? Obviously the reward is forgotten as he struggles to save his life. So too the Gedolim (and we should strive for this madreiga too) continuously feel the ice cracking beneath them as the possibility of gehinom is a stark reality to them. Can negius still play a part as they “struggle” to stay out of gehinom?
In this case who knows what is best for Yerushalayim in the short and long term? I dont think that the decision to support Porush by most Gedolim was wrong, maybe it was a necessary nisayon for us, who can know?
Wishing you yet again all the very best.