Rav Avrohom Gurwicz, Rosh Yeshiva of Gateshead, has thrown his full weight behind the Eretz HaKodesh movement, urging Shomrei Torah u’Mitzvos to sign up and take an active role in the World Zionist Organization (WZO) – countering baseless rumors that he is not supporting voting.
One of the Ziknei Roshei Yeshiva of our generation, HaRav Gurwicz spent time learning by and being Meshamesh the Brisker Rav zt’l. The Rosh Yeshivas masterful Sefarim on the most complex Sugyas in Shas are considered staples amongst the Bnei Hayeshivos worldwide.
This latest endorsement comes after Gedolei Yisroel—HaGaon Rav Chaim Kanievsky, zt”l, and HaGaon R. Shmuel Kaminetsky, shlita—paskened that Torah’dige Yidden can no longer afford to sit on the sidelines while decisions affecting Yidden in Eretz Yisroel are being made by others. Rabbi Gurwicz had originally issued this call in 5782, but in his latest letter, dated Parshas Ki Sisa 5785, he’s making it clear that he holds voting in the WZO election is a chiyuv.
Rabbi Gurwicz writes that just like Yidden need a say in the Israeli government, they also need a shtikl koach in the WZO, which plays a major role in determining policies affecting Torah, chinuch, and funding for mosdos ha’Torah.
“It is necessary that the Government of the State of Israel should hear the opinion and the will of the Shomrei Torah u’Mitzvos public, and the same applies to the leaders of the World Zionist Organization,” the letter states.
Simply put: if we’re not in the room, they’ll make decisions without us—l’raah.
Of course, not everyone is on board. The idea of participanting in a Zionist organization—has been a matter of great debate. Some hold that any connection to the WZO is off-limits, no matter what. Others, though, say that if frum Yidden don’t step up, the anti-Torah crowd will have full control.
The Eretz HaKodesh movement, which was created to bring a Torah’dige voice into the WZO, has already been making waves. Many rabbanim, roshei yeshiva, and dayanim are behind it, saying it’s necessary hishtadlus. But there are those who hold that it’s a chillul Hashem to even give the WZO a second glance.
“As something almost superfluous, I join my view to theirs, and I issue a public request to the Tzibbur of Shomrei Torah U’Mitzvos that they should make every effort to register as members of the Eretz HaKodesh movement,” Rav Gurwicz writes.
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45 Responses
lol @YWN you keep posting different articles about who supports the WZO and then you make this whole disclaimer that you’re not taking sides and it’s only informative etc… so then why don’t you also report on the other side?? Like maybe what R’ Malkiel had to say about it on Purim in front of thousands… or maybe R’ Elya Ber Shlita ??? I smell heavy bias
YWN NOTE: YWN posted the letter opposing the voting from the Gadol Hador Rav Dov Landau before any publication on the planet did. YWN will gladly publish what Rav Malkiel or Rav Elya Ber said. No one has sent YWN anything. The YWN contact info is on the website and is available for anyone to submit anything.
Yeshiva World has an opportunity to do Klall Yisrael a big Tovah, to prevent loshon hora and close this for comments ASAP. Please do so as a zechus for all of Klall Yisrael
This פסק unequivocally also applies to every single Satmar, and to every single follower of Rabbi Shmuel Auerbach, and anyone who doesn’t adhere to this פסק is displaying highest imaginable contempt to דעת-תורה
“The idea of participating in a Zionist organization—has been a matter of great debate.”
This is very inaccurate.
Actually, joining the WZO has been a matter of great and universal prohibition by all gedolim for well over a century.
Only in 2020, did EH lie and deceive to convince people to become Zionists – and have not lived up to their promises, as anyone can see by reading their own reports and/or visiting the .COM site “harehbetzba”.
Consider that the wicked Zionists’ threats against the lomdei Torah have only gotten worse, and have never been this bad, since EH joined the WZO.
In Dialogue Magazine Issue 9 (Fall ’22), Rav Aharon Feldman shlit”A addresses this letter, too.
All the gedolim have stated that it is severely prohibited to join the WZO, just as it always has been for over a century.
I dont see why ywn needs to shut the comments section on this topic.
thruout the generations of klall yisroel their were always gedolim who disagreed with each others RESPECTFULLY.
people should follow their rav who they always consult with as whether to vote or not
as is well known rave aron ztl and the satmar rav ztl differed greatly in their approach to zionisim but respected each others tremendously
the satmar rebbe was maspid rav aron ztl (that a story in and of itself
but he did indeed attend and was maspid
people can disagree yet act and be civil toeach others
YWN:
If you really claim that you are presenting both sides, then please publish a link to the booklet at the .COM site “harehbetzba” which has
1. a sea of information including that the gedolim are against this and always were for over a century and
2. how EH has lied and continues to lie and that it actually hurting Klal Yisrael with their presence in the WZO. EH is “Religious Zionist” pretending to be “Chareidi”, but that’s not even the worst of it.
3. And more
Here is what I get ….. Our views and opinions are with the zionist org. And no doubt what ever money going to fight us Torah Jews will get doubled and tripled from people seeking to beautify the zionist of hundred years and now that there is so many of us zionism will be the new iron wall to the money for family
I don’t understand something, for the average guy who isn’t a talmid of Rav Avrohom shlita why would they vote, allow me to explain. Besides for the fact that Rav Aron Feldman wrote in his famous article that it is very unclear whether rav chaim ztl was matir it and explicitly said that Rav shmuel confirmed to him twice that he retracted his support, but suppose there would be a hilchos shabbas Sheila that the gedolim held was aasur for a hundred years hence in our case the Mishna Berura Rav Moshe Rav Aron Rav Elyashiv…. And some rabbanim would be mechadesh a heter and many rabanim hence in our case Rav Dov The Moetzes in America Rav elya ber… Say the issur is still in place, why and who would be meikel?
don’t understand something, for the average guy who isn’t a talmid of Rav Avrohom shlita why would they vote, allow me to explain. Besides for the fact that Rav Aron Feldman wrote in his famous article that it is very unclear whether rav chaim ztl was matir it and explicitly said that Rav shmuel confirmed to him twice that he retracted his support, but suppose there would be a hilchos shabbas Sheila that the gedolim held was aasur for a hundred years hence in our case the Mishna Berura Rav Moshe Rav Aron Rav Elyashiv…. And some rabbanim would be mechadesh a heter and many rabanim hence in our case Rav Dov The Moetzes in America Rav elya ber… Say the issur is still in place, why and who would be meikel?
Wow never saw an issue that divides gedolei yisrael to 2 sides like this!! Now I really have no idea what to do, usually the guidance is more united. Here the shitos are split 50/50 between its assur and its a chiyuv!
Finally an adam gadol that is not afraid to say the right thing despite the pressure against it. He also fully supported the wonderful Chumash that hundreds of thousands benefitted from (and continue to) and that some tragically misinformed people smeared based false information.
[Disclaimer: YWN does not take a position on this matter but is presenting the discussion for informational purposes.]
Total Garbage! As previous comment said, you post such bias then say that your not taking sides… noone needs to send you whichever side you want to propagate… Only “the other side”
3000 people heard the daas torah of R Malkiel this past Purim Mesiba, i think that you know about it
It makes sense to vote. Why allow the reform heretics to get the money.
“This latest endorsement comes after Gedolei Yisroel—HaGaon Rav Chaim Kanievsky, zt”l, and HaGaon R. Shmuel Kaminetsky, shlita—paskened that Torah’dige Yidden can no longer afford to sit on the sidelines while decisions affecting Yidden in Eretz Yisroel are being made by others.”
The problem is rav Aron Feldman testified publicly in front of the whole world including Rav shmuel Kaminetzki (in a detailed article in Dialogue magazine a few years ago that Rav shmuel retracted his support after realizing that rav chaims support was a farce.
So there goes Rav Chaim and Rav shmuel which is what the only gadol against all the other gedolei hador who are vehemently opposed says hes basing his support upon.
To summarize
1) the Chofetz Chaim quoted by rav Elchonon Wassermann and rav ahron Kotler said it is assured to join the wzo even if not joining would result in most of the yeshivas of klal yisroel closing down (basically klal yisroel destruction thats how severe the prohibition on the wzo is)
2)Rav Elyashiv paskened just 2 congresses ago that the issue still stands
3)the entire aguda moetzes backed a letter from aguda a few years ago published on its website that Eretz Hakodesh is a historic pirtzah in the fight against the reform
4)the one gadol who has come out in support against all the gedolei hador states that it is based on the support of Rav shmuel who’s support was based on rav chaim and rav Aron feldman is media in front of the whole world that Rav shmuel retracted after seeing that rav chaims support was a farce
5) Rav Moshe Hillel responds to all who ask that he backs rav dov 100%
So left with the gadol hador and r moshe Hillel and the whole Agudah moetzes against
In the words of the gadol hador
יש בזה תמיכה בכפירה! שמד! וחילול ה!
Shmad – the Gemara says is worse than murder!
Chilul Hashem the Gemara says only death is mechper!
So anyone who wants to take a chance on their olam haba and life and to go down in history as one who supported shmad then go right ahead
It only takes a few minutes and 5$ to lose everything
“This latest endorsement comes after Gedolei Yisroel—HaGaon Rav Chaim Kanievsky, zt”l, and HaGaon R. Shmuel Kaminetsky, shlita—paskened that Torah’dige Yidden can no longer afford to sit on the sidelines while decisions affecting Yidden in Eretz Yisroel are being made by others.” The problem is rav Aron Feldman testified publicly in front of the whole world including Rav shmuel Kaminetzki (in a detailed article in Dialogue magazine a few years ago that Rav shmuel retracted his support after realizing that rav chaim’s support was a farce. So there goes Rav Chaim and Rav shmuel which is what the only gadol against all the other gedolei hador who are vehemently opposed, basing his support upon. To summarize 1) the Chofetz Chaim quoted by rav Elchonon Wassermann and rav ahron Kotler said it is assur to join the wzo even if not joining would result in most of the yeshivas of klal yisroel closing down (basically klal yisroel’s destruction thats how severe the prohibition on the wzo is) 2)Rav Elyashiv paskened just 2 congresses ago that the issur still stands and joining is an “abomination” 3)the entire aguda moetzes backed a letter from aguda a few years ago published on its website that Eretz Hakodesh is a historic pirtzah in the fight against the reform 4)the one gadol who has comes out in support against all the gedolei hador based on the support of Rav shmuel who’s support was based on rav chaim – and rav Aron feldman testified in front of the whole world that Rav shmuel retracted after seeing that rav chaims support was a farce 5) Rav Moshe Hillel responds to all who ask that he backs rav dov 100% So we’re left with the gadol hador and r moshe Hillel and the whole Agudah moetzes against in the words of the gadol hador יש בזה תמיכה בכפירה! שמד! וחילול ה! Shmad – the Gemara says is worse than murder! Chilul Hashem the Gemara says only death is mechper! So anyone who wants to take a chance on their olam haba and life and to go down in history as one who supported shmad then go right ahead It only takes a few minutes and 5$ to lose everything
They lied to him, plain and simple. It is so sad how low these charlatans who claim to be defensing the Torah will stoop. Rav Shmuel Kaminetzky and Rav Chaim Kaminetzky DID NOT support voting the WZO elections!
This actually is the greatest proof how deceitful and manipulative these people really are!
Hakatan, oh Hakatan—what a specimen. You’re out here strutting around Yeshiva World News like some self-appointed guardian of the mesorah, tossing around “universal prohibition” like it’s your personal catchphrase. Newsflash, buddy: the only thing universal here is how predictable your rants are. Every comment’s the same tired script—WZO’s assur, EH’s a scam, Zionists are the devil, blah blah blah. You’ve got the originality of a broken record and the charm of a soggy matzah. Do you ever get tired of hearing yourself preach? I bet you sit there refreshing the page, smirking at your own brilliance, waiting for someone to take the bait. Spoiler: we’re all just scrolling past.
And that name—“Hakatan”? Cute. Trying to play the humble card while you’re out here acting like you’ve got a direct line to the Chofetz Chaim? Please. It’s giving “I’m small but my ego’s gadol” vibes. You’re not fooling anyone with that fake modesty—your comments scream “look at me, I’m the frummest guy in the room!” Meanwhile, you’re so stuck in your anti-Zionist echo chamber you can’t see straight. Rav Gurwicz says it’s a chiyuv to vote WZO, and you’re still yammering about a century-old issur like it’s the final psak. What’s next, you gonna tell us electricity’s assur because the gedolim didn’t have it in 1900?
Let’s talk your “evidence”—“harehbetzba.com”? Seriously? You’re citing some rinky-dink site like it’s the Vilna Shas. I clicked it—barely a page, no substance, just some dude’s blog masquerading as proof. You’re out here blaming EH for every yeshiva bochur’s runny nose, claiming threats got worse since 2020. Ever heard of, I dunno, history? Zionists were clashing with frum Jews way before EH showed up—read a book, not just your own fan fiction. And that “Dialogue Magazine Issue 9” flex with Rav Feldman? One gadol’s take doesn’t make you the arbiter of truth, no matter how many times you Ctrl+V it.
You’re a walking caricature, Hakatan—dishing out “severe prohibition” warnings like you’re the Sanhedrin’s PR guy. Maybe spend less time policing the internet and more time cracking a sefer that doesn’t just parrot your biases. The rest of us will be over here, living in 2025, while you’re stuck yelling at clouds about Herzl. Get a grip—or at least a new hobby.
Rav Ahron Feldman posed for photos and met with the biggest Zionist on the planet this past summer, the president of Israel.
Will the real slim shady please stand up?
Good shabbos goodbye, and a frelichen purim everyone.
No one retracted anything.
BH more people than ever are voting, and that is the only way to stop the reformed reshohim.
Please ignore the fake and keep voting.
So Reb Malkiel Kotler uses a drunken Purim party where heckling and screaming during his drasha is ongoing to bash Eretz Hakodesh (of course not mentioning it by name). Why doesn’t he speak on a video and explain it to everyone in ENGLISH for the ENGLISH speaking crowd, instead of some drunken Purim smash?
Seriously. I am being dead serious.
Get all your family and friends to vote asap! This is a chov on every single yid.
It’s always a certain group of people on the wrong side.
TRIVIYA QUESTION: How many fights can the ayatollah battle the same time? Lace top shaitels, Lakewood billboards, bugs in water, bug sin strawberries, WZO blah blah blah blah.
Makes me sick to my stomach.
Does everyone know that TAG – the premiere website to filter out SHMUTZ from our computers has blacklisted the Eretz Hakodesh websitye?
TAG are ganaovim. Plain and simple. Why is everyone walking on egg shells here?
What is with this bullying and intimidation? Why are we all scared of these ruthless minions?
This is a good proof that eilu ve’eilu is alive and well and a unitary daat torah is not. Circumstances change; quoting gedolim who are no longer living is meaningless. We can only conjecture what their position might be. Stating that we know categorically is declaring that we are prophets, i.e. shotim.
When reb Chayim Kanievsky Ztl asked everyone to come out to protest the gay parade in Yerushalayim twenty years ago,you all ignored him. And now there is a vile evil parade each year. You listen to what you want to listen. Pick and choose. Well any Jew who does not vote in the WZO election will have to give din vechesbon. Ne is the opportunity to be mocha. Really be mocha by defeating the reform heretics and taking their money away. Just yelling on the street shabbos is not enough. Taking their money away money and using it for our marbitz Torah is number one. Money talks. We can build more yeshivas with the billion dollars. We don’t need to vote for Oslo as some religious parties did to get big money and cause a thousand Jews to be blown up. We can vote and take two billion dollars from the ZOA and not need to shnore in America for a hundred million dollars and not even reach that goal. Wake up. Go vote.
what do you want from tag? if the gadol hador (backed by aguda letter backed by whole moetzes backed by anyone who asks r moshe hillel Hirsh says Halacha like r dov- and only support based on r chaim which the gedolim said wasn’t presented the main question of signing the juresalem program which is apikorsis) says “its supporting kefirah and shmad” what exactly are they supposed to do?
(
is there a big shmutz then in the words of the gadol hador “supporting kfira and shmad?!
@BMG – TAG has a chiyuv to notify every single one of their constituents and inform them that they are following a certain shita and that this would be happening. Otherwise, they are THIEVES.
PERIOD.
QUESTION: Why didn’t the Lakewood Rosh Yeshiva use the opportunity on Purim to warn everyone that there is a molester (which according to Halacha is a murderer) in the room, who also happens to be an employee of BMG?
You guys wanna play dirty? We will leak the goods.
It’s coming. Brace yourself.
PS: Once we are at it, we will leak the goods on some of the “tzadikim” at TAG. (We already know about one of them from Baltimore. Lakewood is loooooooong overdue.)
“posek hador” that would be true if they were in the minority not if theyre following the consensus of gedolei hador who say its supporting kfira and shmad
“yourworstnightmare”
keep it up the public has to know the type of ppl behind wzo
One can definitely utilize כסף מעשר שני {the 2nd tenth of 10th money assigned to דבר מצוה} to cover the $5 registration to vote on this campaign for a religious slate to impede the filthy “reform” agenda.
Cold hard truth you are like the fake news who attack trumps style and not his substance
You’ve done that to hakatan its full of insults and you do not address his content because you can’t
Just like fake news can not counter trumps common sense because it’s impossible to counter something if it’s common sense and based on the facts
All of hakatans opinions are those of at minimum rov minyan ubinyan of all gedolei yidroel throughout the generations. he is grounded in facts and the truth and has every right to be a proud Jew and not a Hebrew.
It is unfortunate that there is such vitriol. It is important to remember that “col Yisroel areivim zeh lazeh, and we must love one another even a sinner. The Chafetz Chai, ZT”L, composed a prayer to be said at the end of the Shemoneh Esray urging us to e careful not to say lashon hara on even one Jew, kal v’chomer on a cheilek of them.
At the same time, it is important to be sure there are no misunderstandings and to warn others of errors. I proceed only after saying one perek of Tehillim that I should not err or create more hatred, but only clarify and help. I believe there is a lot of misinformation or a lack of information on all sides of this controversy about supporting Eretz HaKodesh, and it is to clarify and inform that I write with trepidation that I should not make a mistake. I have spent years researching the material I summarize here and hope to share the basics with the public. I would like to document everything, but I am too tired to look up sources that would take many hours to find, so everything I say is based upon my memory which I think is good, but may be wrong in places. Accordingly, I urge everyone who reads what I wrote to try to check things out for himself or herself.
I am a modern Orthodox Jew from YU who believes in keeping mitzvos. My father and grandfather were founders and supporters of Yeshiva Mercaz Harav Kook in Jerusalem, where I once learned a little. I also believe in doing detailed research. I checked the history of the Missionr Statement of WZO for many years. It started being EXTREMELY anti-orthodox. One of the founders of the philosophy was Max Nordeau who openly wanted to eliminate orthodoxy and stated clearly he hated orthodox Jews as much as the goyim (Germans) and did not blame the goyim because the orthodox were so backwards, and only by making them more modern was there any hope of removing antisemitism, since it all stemmed from the archaic (and virtually uncivilized) beliefs and behavior of the orthodox primitives.
Many of the early Zionist leaders claimed, like the communists, that religion was the opiate of the masses and many openly said that the Torah is wrong when it says we should not say “Kochi v’otzem yadi asah li es hachayil hazeh. They said that is a very big fault of Orthodox Judaism and the reason why orthodoxy must be wiped out because it is only our koach and our chayil that give us success. Many viewed the orthodox as dangerous parasites on society, who must be removed even by forcibly changing them which was a necessary act of self-preservation. See the book, The Empty Wagon: Zionism’s Journey from Identity Crisis to Identity Theft, by Yaakov Shapiro. While the author seems to me to be prejudiced, he brings many direct quotes that unquestionably prove many of his surprising premises of vitriolic hatred against the torthodox by the early Zionists.
There was a dispute between Rav Yosef Chaim Sonennfeld and Rav Kook concerning the construction of Hebrew University. Rav Sonnenfeld claimed they would teach heresy, and one should not support the construction of Hebrew U, nor go to the dedication assembly. Rav Kook disagreed, saying that the leaders had promised him they would only teach agriculture since the purpose of the university was to build the land. Rav Sonnenfeld said he did not trust the leaders as they were capable or lying or doing anything wrong to promote their agenda. Rav Kook disagreed and did address the dedication assembly. One of the keynote speakers who spoke after Rav Kook stated explicitly that the Torah is wrong, and it is indeed our koach and our chayil that get things done. Rav Kook was overheard to have said at that point in time something to the effect, “Oh, Oh, Rav Sonnenfeld was right, I should not have come.” Source: Guardian of Jerusalem by Artscroll.
As an important aside: It is unfortunate that there is hatred between the followers of these two great leaders. They were both great talmidei chachamim and ba’alei ruach hakodesh. They both respected each other highly. Rav Sonnenfeld publicly stated that Rav Kook was a bigger talmid chacham than he was and the halacha was generally like Rav Kook when they diaagreed in pure halacha. However, when it came to evaluating the metzius of a situation, Rav Sonenfeld felt Rak Kook was ignorant and easily deceived by tricksters whom he naively trusted. Years ago, letters were discovered that were later printed in The Jewish Observer, between non-religious kibbutz leaders discussing what lies they should tell Rav Kook so he will give a heter to work the land during shmitah year. These letters reveal the situation was NOT dire, but they were discussing in these letters what lies to tell Rav Kook to deceive him into thinking the situation was desparate in order to give a heter.
The Chafetz Chaim and the Chazon Ish both held Rav Kook in the highest regard. The Chafezt Chaim used to visit the Volozin Yeshiva in Europe and learn with the best boys, including Rav Kook when he was a bachur there. Every day, Rav Kook refused to eat breakfast until after he reviewed 60 dapim of Gemarra with rishonim! The Chafetz Chaim told him he should eat first. There are other stories of how endeared Rav Kook was to the Chafetz Chaim and how he supported many of his projects.
Similarly, the Chazon Ish would attend Rav Kook’s lectures, and even being frail and diabetic, he would stand the whole time. When asked why, he responded something to the effect, “How can I sitd with Torah is speaking” (Or perhaps it was “Mt. Sinai was speaking”—I forgot which.
Over the years the mission statement has been softened greatly. Most of them do not look at orthodoxy as an anathema, just quaint and archaic. There has clearly been an conscious and intentional attempt to include Orthodox Jews in the “Zionist Umbrella” without trying to change them or attack them . However, as the secular leaders know little about Jewish hashkafa, just rituals such as “Orthodox Jews don’t ride in a car on shabbat, but walk to the synagogue,” they probably mistakenly assume they have made significant and sincere compromises to include the orthodox—and from their point of view they have—and I believe we should show our appreciation for this recognition that we are human beings with our own feelings and the right to practice Judaism as we see fit. The problem is that they are vastly ignorant of how we see fit.
In spite of all this attempt to mollify orthodox Jews, after reading the latest Mission Statement five years ago (which I cannot now locate—maybe it only appears when one registers to vote) s, I, AS A MODERN ORTHODOX JEW, am convinced that is obvious that JOINING WZO OR ERETZ HAKODESH IS PROHIBITED BY THE TORAH, AN ISSUR D’ORAYSA, AND IN, MY HUMBLE OPINION, A CASE OF YEIHAREIG V’AL YA’AVOR—THAT IS TO SAY THAT JOINING WZO IS SUCH SERIOUS SIN THAT ONE IS REQUIRED TO GIVE UP ONE’S LIFE RATHER THAN TRANSGRESS.
Unfortunately, anyone reading the above statement will think I am some type of radical be likely to dismiss me and my ideas as being very biased and prejudicial. However, that is not the case. I spent many years reading documentation, and unless anyone has spent such time and energy they have no basis from the point of intellectual honesty to criticize me.
In order to join Eretz HaKodesh one first has to join the WZO. Five years ago, the Eretz HaKkodesh form arranged for a person NOT to sign the WZO application, but assigned Erertz HaKodesh the right to sign on one’s behalf.
Not being one to sign away my rights to sign a document so easily, I went to the regular A\WZO sign-up page and read carefully all the details, some of which were not immediately available umless one clicked here and there. I followed it in depth and was horrified by what I saw. Again, while I do not think the authors who were far from orthodoxy realized it, but signing agreement to their principles is a clear and complete denial of the Divinity of the Torah.
Many beliefs one signed that he or she had were clearly prohibited. One thing that one was signing he or she agreed to was that Israel should be a democracy. Another statement to which one was expected to agree was the belief in the equality and legitimacy of many beliefs and actions with all being equal and included, including homosexuals. The statement to be signed by a synagogue (as opposed to an individual) which applied for membership was even stronger. Was that homosexuals should be allowed not just the right to practice as they saw fit but that Judaism so encouraged them and that we all accept them as equal and important members of our synagogue with the right to become leaders, such as presidents or rabbis. The individual membership sign-up form did not have such strong language as I recall. However, there was some phrase that seemed to indicate we agreed that the document to be signed by organizational members was fair and proper and represented the democratic and inclusive ideals for which Judaism stands.
About fifteen or twenty years ago, I went to the man who was my poseik then, Rav Feivel Cohen, and went over the details of the Mission Statement at that time as it seemed to me that many statements (not as extreme as those of five years ago) were problematic. He said they were and that is was prohibited by the Torah to join or vote in the WZO if signing agreement with the Mission Statement was a requirement. THIS IS ALL VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER IDEA OF NOT JOIING WITH A RASHA FOR A DVAR MITZVA—THE IDEA BEING MENTIONED TODAY. THIS IS SOMETHING MORE FUNDAMENTAL—SIGNING TO VOTE IS TANTAMOUNT STO SIGINING YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE TORAH. THIS IS NOT WE ALL HAVE COMMON GOOD GOALS BUT “IT IS FORBIDDEN TO WORK TOGETHER.’” INSTEAD, IT IS WE HAVE DIFFERENT GOALS AND CANNOT WORK TOGETHER EVEN IF WE WOULD WANT TO.
Five years ago, a “right-wing” rabbis who follows just about every chumrah you can imagine and has gone trough all of Sha”S at least seven times, proudly told me he signed up for Eretz HaKodesh. I asked how he could sign all those things, and he said he signed nothing other than a proxy allowing Eretz HaKodesh to sign up for him.
I BELIEVE THIS PRACTICE OF ERETZ HAKODESH OF SIGNING FOR SOMEONE AND NOT TELLING HIM IS DECEPTIVE.
I have known—although not well—Rabbi Pesah Lerner for years, and considered him a fine upstanding Jew, but I since had my doubts after I heard what this right-rabbi had said. I then called him and asked about this. He did not seem to want to answer my questions. Now since Rabbi Lerner had received a written haskama from Rav Chaim Kanievsky, ZT”L, I wondered how that had happened. When I asked him if he had informed Rav Chaim Kanievsky that to vote (or join Eretz HaKodesh) one had to sign he agreed with the Mission Statement and principles of the WZO, Rabbi Lerner just said “If you don’t like it, you don’t have to join.”
I then contacted Rav Feldman of Ner Yisroel, and he said he agreed with me that he thought Rav Chaim Kanievsky probably had not been given the full story and that Rabbi Lerner seemed to have gotten his haskama under false or misleading premises..
Rav Feldman also pointed out that, by the way, based upon the way in which the WZO worked and the fact that there are many represenatatives of all sorts from many countries, even an extremely large delegation from Eretz Hakodesh would not be able to muster enough votes for even one penny to go to any legitimate orthodox causes they might advocate. (This is based upon the details of how monies are advocated according to their rules and bylaws.)
I believe the way to fight these errors is NOT to point out what great roshei Yeshiva have said, because many people think that these gedolim are misinformed. Indeed they may not know about the Mission Statement. However, the real misinformation seems to be the information propagated by Eretz HaKodesh. It is THEIR membership that is being misinformed. The way to fight this is NOT TO TALK ABOUT THE MAJORING OF THE GEDOLIM, BUT TO SPREAD THE BASIC FACTS THAT ARE APPARENTLY UNKOWN TO BOTH SIDES!
THIS SEEMS TO ME TO BE OUTRIGHT DECEPTION. WHOEVER CAN, PLEASE ASK RAV GURWICZ IF HE IS AWARE THAT BY JOINING ERETZ HAKODESH OR THE WZO UNDER ANY UMBRELLA YOU ARE SIGNING YOU SUPPORT THE IDEAS OF THE MISSION STATEMENT, INCLUDING LEGITIMATICY OF HOMSEXUALTIY AND WE MUST TRY TO STOP THOSE WHO DISCOURAGE IT.
Leiby P how come you are always on the opposite side of them every time. what makes them as the wrong side any more than you
If you approve of lacetop shaitels why must they rav elyashiv didn’t approve of sheitels period
why does it make you sick to your stomach that there are so many great rabbis who disagree with you? Why can’t you meet with them to convince them how they are wrong?
A few minutes ago I submitted a long opinion, but I could not find the documentation that supported it. I now enclose some of that documentation which is from the CONSTITUTION OF THE WZO.
Part WZO Constitution
Article 7 Zionist
Federation In order to be a Member of the World Zionist Organization, a Zionist Federation shall comply with the following requirements:
(b) Act according to the basic principles of justice, equality and democracy, prevent the membership of bodies or individuals who adhere to or advocate discrimination based on origin, nationality, race, gender or sexual orientation and conduct its affairs, having regard to the protection of the requirements of all members of the Federation.
Problems with WZO vote
Many famous rabbis have come out in favor of voting in the current World Zionist Organization (WZO) elections. I have seen formal haskomas from some famous rabbis–in alphabetical order, Rav Elya Brudny, Rav Pesach Lerner (former head of Young Israel) Rav Hershel Schachter, and Rav Asher Weiss. There are videos available by these rabbanim explaining why voting is crucial, some of which are available at EretzHakodesh.org. or from the OU.
The main gist of the arguments in favor of voting are that the WZO allocates over a billion dollars a year for the next 5 years to causes determined by the delegates to the WZO Congress that meets once every five years. Many delegates are anti-religious, and it is important that money not be sent to their causes, but for Torah purposes. Rav Pesach Lerner mentioned in an e-mail to me that some of these bad causes for which we need to oppose by having frum delegates at the WZO Congress are:
Hundreds of thousands of Israel public school kids are being taught that pluralism is judaism
The Kotel sanctity is being challenged
Conversion standards are being eroded
Tens of millions of dollars are going into anti TORAH
Etc
In this e-mail, Rav Lerner also stated that both Rav Chaim Kanievsky and Rav Shmuel Kaminetzy state that it is obligatory to vote–although I have never seen those statements myself.
I also spoke in person with Rav xxxxxxxx who strongly supports voting for these and additional similar reasons.
SO I DECIDED TO VOTE, BUT WHEN I WENT TO THE WEBSITE TO VOTE, I SAW SOMETHING THAT MADE ME STOP. TO VOTE ONE HAS TO BELONG TO THE WZO AND TO JOIN THE WZO ONE HAS TO CHECK A BOX THAT DECLARES THAT THE PERSON WHO JOINS THE WZO SUPPORTS THE “JERUSALEM PROGRAM”–THE FORMAL STATEMENT OF VALUES AND IDEALS OF THE WZO.
BUT BUT BUT–IF ONE READS THE JERUSALEM PROGRAM CAREFULLY, IT LOOKS TO ME THAT IT IS FULL OF KEFIRAH AND DENIAL OF THE VALIDITY OF THE TORAH. SO IS IT PERMITTED TO SIGN THAT HE BELIEVES IN THESE IDEALS OF THE WZO IN ORDER TO VOTE OR NOT? .
About 15 years ago, I asked one of the biggest gedolim in America–and i do not have permission to give his name–and he said it was forbidden to sign one believes in the ideals of the WZO, and therefore one cannot vote.
Since many great rabbis now feel it is permitted to vote, I wonder if they saw the “Jerusalem Program” document and are aware that one must sign allegiance to it in order to vote, or whether they were simply told that by voting we can elect delegates to the WZO Congress who will oppose allocating funds to those bad causes. To be sure, we want funds raised by the WZO from Jews all over the world to go to good causes, not those bad ones, and to be sure, by electing enough delegates we can make a big difference, BUT THE QUESTION IS–DO THOSE RABBIS IN SUPPORT OF JOINING THE WZO KNOW THAT TO VOTE ONE MUST SIGN HE AGREES WITH THE “JERUSALEM PROGRAM” DOCUMENT AND WHAT THAT DOCUMENT SAYS?
It happens very often that Big Rabbis are busy, and therefore someone asking a question may not necessarily give ALL the facts. The question is: Do these rabbis know all the facts? Did the questioner explain all the details to the rabbis in favor of voting (and therefore in favor of joining the WZO)? Perhaps the questioner himself did not know what he was signing, because the form just says to check a box that he believes in “The Jerusalem Program.” Did the questioner personally look up himself what this document says? How many people when signing up for some internet service such as PayPal will really read all dozen or so pages of the agreement, privacy policy and other related documents before signing? I do–even it is 100 pages long! When I took out a mortgage which required signing documents over 30 times.I read every single page–and there were well over 50. The title-search company rep got very angry, bec. it took hours and said she had another appt. She said no one ever did that before–but I do not intend to sign something I did not read. I think too, here, no one but me may have read what they were signing.
I sent both a copy of the Jerusalem Program document, as well as my own explanation as to why it seemed to me to be forbidden to sign, to one of the prominent rabbis who are strongly advocating to sign and to vote, and he wrote back he has no time to read them! I think that is irresponsible. How can he tell us to do something (“just check a box”–which means he is signing he agrees to something) without knowing what that something he agrees to is? I also sent later, and an article about the WZO from a very, very liberal left wing Jew who moved to Israel, who was a friend of mine, Yosef HaKohen, ZT”L from yeshiva. He was makarev others to Torah and used to run a kosher coffee shop in the Village in the sixties. He was very friendly with the Black Panthers because of his extreme left-wing political views and he single-handedly got them to stop attacking Jews–a fact little known to others. He is very pro-“zionist” (meaning going on aliyah), but wrote a very strong article against the WZO. This was also enclosed.
Problems with WZO vote
Many famous rabbis have come out in favor of voting in the current World Zionist Organization (WZO) elections. I have seen formal haskomas from some famous rabbis–in alphabetical order, Rav Elya Brudny, Rav Pesach Lerner (former head of Young Israel) Rav Hershel Schachter, and Rav Asher Weiss. There are videos available by these rabbanim explaining why voting is crucial, some of which are available at EretzHakodesh.org. or from the OU.
The main gist of the arguments in favor of voting are that the WZO allocates over a billion dollars a year for the next 5 years to causes determined by the delegates to the WZO Congress that meets once every five years. Many delegates are anti-religious, and it is important that money not be sent to their causes, but for Torah purposes. Rav Pesach Lerner mentioned in an e-mail to me that some of these bad causes for which we need to oppose by having frum delegates at the WZO Congress are:
Hundreds of thousands of Israel public school kids are being taught that pluralism is judaism
The Kotel sanctity is being challenged
Conversion standards are being eroded
Tens of millions of dollars are going into anti TORAH
Etc
In this e-mail, Rav Lerner also stated that both Rav Chaim Kanievsky and Rav Shmuel Kaminetzy state that it is obligatory to vote–although I have never seen those statements myself.
I also spoke in person with Rav xxxxxxxx who strongly supports voting for these and additional similar reasons.
SO I DECIDED TO VOTE, BUT WHEN I WENT TO THE WEBSITE TO VOTE, I SAW SOMETHING THAT MADE ME STOP. TO VOTE ONE HAS TO BELONG TO THE WZO AND TO JOIN THE WZO ONE HAS TO CHECK A BOX THAT DECLARES THAT THE PERSON WHO JOINS THE WZO SUPPORTS THE “JERUSALEM PROGRAM”–THE FORMAL STATEMENT OF VALUES AND IDEALS OF THE WZO.
BUT BUT BUT–IF ONE READS THE JERUSALEM PROGRAM CAREFULLY, IT LOOKS TO ME THAT IT IS FULL OF KEFIRAH AND DENIAL OF THE VALIDITY OF THE TORAH. SO IS IT PERMITTED TO SIGN THAT HE BELIEVES IN THESE IDEALS OF THE WZO IN ORDER TO VOTE OR NOT? .
About 15 years ago, I asked one of the biggest gedolim in America–and i do not have permission to give his name–and he said it was forbidden to sign one believes in the ideals of the WZO, and therefore one cannot vote.
Since many great rabbis now feel it is permitted to vote, I wonder if they saw the “Jerusalem Program” document and are aware that one must sign allegiance to it in order to vote, or whether they were simply told that by voting we can elect delegates to the WZO Congress who will oppose allocating funds to those bad causes. To be sure, we want funds raised by the WZO from Jews all over the world to go to good causes, not those bad ones, and to be sure, by electing enough delegates we can make a big difference, BUT THE QUESTION IS–DO THOSE RABBIS IN SUPPORT OF JOINING THE WZO KNOW THAT TO VOTE ONE MUST SIGN HE AGREES WITH THE “JERUSALEM PROGRAM” DOCUMENT AND WHAT THAT DOCUMENT SAYS?
It happens very often that Big Rabbis are busy, and therefore someone asking a question may not necessarily give ALL the facts. The question is: Do these rabbis know all the facts? Did the questioner explain all the details to the rabbis in favor of voting (and therefore in favor of joining the WZO)? Perhaps the questioner himself did not know what he was signing, because the form just says to check a box that he believes in “The Jerusalem Program.” Did the questioner personally look up himself what this document says? How many people when signing up for some internet service such as PayPal will really read all dozen or so pages of the agreement, privacy policy and other related documents before signing? I do–even it is 100 pages long! When I took out a mortgage which required signing documents over 30 times.I read every single page–and there were well over 50. The title-search company rep got very angry, bec. it took hours and said she had another appt. She said no one ever did that before–but I do not intend to sign something I did not read. I think too, here, no one but me may have read what they were signing.
I sent both a copy of the Jerusalem Program document, as well as my own explanation as to why it seemed to me to be forbidden to sign, to one of the prominent rabbis who are strongly advocating to sign and to vote, and he wrote back he has no time to read them! I think that is irresponsible. How can he tell us to do something (“just check a box”–which means he is signing he agrees to something) without knowing what that something he agrees to is? I also sent later, and an article about the WZO from a very, very liberal left wing Jew who moved to Israel, who was a friend of mine, Yosef HaKohen, ZT”L from yeshiva. He was makarev others to Torah and used to run a kosher coffee shop in the Village in the sixties. He was very friendly with the Black Panthers because of his extreme left-wing political views and he single-handedly got them to stop attacking Jews–a fact little known to others. He is very pro-“zionist” (meaning going on aliyah), but wrote a very strong article against the WZO. This was also enclosed.
A Spiritual Critique of the World Zionist Organization
——— Forwarded message ———
From: Yosef Hakohen
Date: Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Subject: A Spiritual Critique of the World Zionist Organization
To: Yosef
My Search for the Soul of Zion – 78
A Spiritual Critique of the World Zionist Organization:
Introduction: As we discussed in the previous letter, major leaders of the World Zionist Organization wanted our people to become in the Land of Zion a nation like all the nations – a desire which led many members of this movement to abandon their spiritual roots. We mentioned that there are some contemporary secular Zionists who now admit that this “nationalistic” movement eventually led to much assimilation, and we cited the lament of Asher Shiloni. As another example, I will mention the following lament of a noted Israeli secular thinker, Hillel Halkin, who wrote over three decades ago:
“We have developed a society whose one demand from everything, from a philosophical idea to the label of a product on a shelf, is that it bear the seal of that outside world that we have appointed the arbiter of our values and tastes, as paupers once indentured themselves to a master when they could no longer earn their own bread to eat.” (Letters to an American Jewish Friend, Letter 5)
Halkin also admits that the Chareidi communities foresaw this problem when the secular Zionist movement began, and he writes that “they were the first body of opinion to raise the possibility that a Jewish state might paradoxically prove as effective an agent of cultural assimilation for its inhabitants as the Diaspora” (ibid). It is therefore relevant at this stage of our discussion to develop a deeper understanding of the spiritual Chareidi critique of the dominant ideology of the World Zionist Organization.
What does the term “chareidi” mean? The Hebrew word chareid can connote fervent concern or zeal, and it can also refer to the “trembling” that may result from intense loving concern or awe. This word appears in the verse where Hashem promises to be close to “the poor and broken-spirited person who is chareid regarding My word” (Isaiah 66:2). The Prophet Isaiah uses the related term chareidim to describe those who are fervently loyal to the Torah – the Divine Teaching – in an age when many of our people were ignoring the Divine Teaching; thus, the Prophet refers to these loyal souls as those who are “chareidim regarding His word” (Isaiah 66:5).
Contemporary Chareidi communities include members of the Lithuanian yeshiva world, Chassidim, followers of Rabbi Samson Hirsch, Sephardim and Yemenite Jews; moreover, they also include converts, and we shall later tell some of their stories.
Dear Friends,
It is understandable that Torah-committed Jews, including converts, would be very concerned over the attempts by the World Zionist Organization to have nationalism replace the spiritual vision of the Torah as the raison d’etre of the People of Zion and the Land of Zion. As we mentioned, the W.Z.O. passed a resolution in 1911 which stated, “Zionism has nothing to do with religion.” In addition, the W.Z.O. also developed schools and cultural programs which stressed a secular and nationalistic definition of the Jewish people.
When these secular Zionist leaders first began their attempts to secularize the Jewish people, they were strongly opposed by groups of Torah-committed Jews that became known as “Chareidim”; moreover, some of the Chareidim were already living in Zion, and as we shall later discuss, Chareidi men and women were involved in some practical projects to renew Jewish life in Zion even “before” the rise of the World Zionist Organization.
The majority of Chareidim joined a new international organization, Agudath Israel, which was founded by leading Torah sages in 1912 on the following principle: The fulfillment of the Torah is the raison d’etre of our people. The founding conference of Agudath Israel therefore proclaimed that its goal was nothing less than “the solution of all problems facing the Jewish people in the spirit of Torah” (The Struggle and the Splendor). Agudath Israel also attracted Torah-committed Jews who had resigned from the W.Z.O. after it passed the resolution that Zionism has nothing to do with religion. They no longer wished to strengthen an organization which denied our spiritual raison d’etre and which sought to have “nationalism” define the meaning of our people and our land.
One of the leading Torah sages who founded and guided Agudath Israel was the Chofetz Chaim. As we discussed in a previous letter, the Chofetz Chaim stressed the following teaching:
The Torah serves as the “soul” of our people and the Land of Israel serves as the “body” of our people; thus, the Land of Israel without the Torah is like a body without a soul.
Dr. Isaac Breuer was a leader and activist in the Jerusalem branch of Agudath Israel. In his response to the Zionist leaders who said, “Let us be like all the nations,” he wrote:
“From remotest centuries there rings out to political Zionism the word of the Prophet Ezekiel (20:32), valid to all eternity: ‘What enters your thoughts – it shall not be! That you say: Let us be like all the nations, like the families of the lands, to serve wood and stone.’ In the eyes of Judaism, self-idolization in the form of absolute nationalism is also service to wood and stone.” (This quote is from his book, Concepts of Judaism.)
Dr. Isaac Breuer was a grandson and follower of Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch, a leading Torah sage who helped create a renewal of Torah life in Germany. The followers of Rabbi Hirsch had a major role in the establishment of Agudath Israel, and Moreinu Yaakov Rosenheim, a follower of Rabbi Hirsch, became the first president of Agudath Israel. When he spoke at the founding conference in 1912, he said:
“The aim of Agudath Israel is to revive an ancient Jewish possession: the traditional concept of Klal Yisrael – Israel’s collective body, animated and sustained by its Torah as the organizing soul.” (The Struggle and the Splendor)
After the W.Z.O. founded the State of Israel in 1948, most Chareidim recognized the State. Chareidim in the Diaspora – including the minority of Chareidim that do not recognize the State – urge the governments of the countries in which they live to help strengthen Israel’s security and economy. For example, Agudath Israel of America has lobbied for economic and military aid to Israel. In 1975, after the infamous “Zionism is Racism” resolution was passed by the United Nations, Rabbi Moshe Sherer, the President of Agudath Israel of America, issued a strong condemnation of the resolution which denied our bond with “Eretz Yisrael” – the Land of Israel, and he stressed:
“The U. N. resolution is aimed at all Jews, for it assails the historical Jewish right to Eretz Yisrael. The Torah bestowed that right, and any attack on it is an attack on Judaism and the Jewish people.”
All Chareidi communities have strongly condemned a very tiny fringe group of Chareidi zealots who join our enemies in demonstrating against the State of Israel. It is relevant to mention that the Satmar Rebbe, a leading Torah sage who did not recognize the secular State of Israel when it was established, later expelled from his Chassidic community a group of young men who joined a P.L.O. demonstration against the State of Israel.
For the reasons we mentioned, the Chareidim were opposed to strengthening the W.Z.O. and allowing it to have the leading role in guiding our people. They therefore preferred to have an independent Torah organization.
There was, however, a Torah organization that decided to remain part of the W.Z.O., and this organization was called Mizrachi – a term derived from the Hebrew word for “East”; however, today, most of its members describe themselves as Dati-Leumi – a term which literally means “Religious-Nationalistic.” English-speaking members tend to call themselves, “National Religious” or “Religious Zionists.”
Most Religious Zionists have stressed that the establishment of the State of Israel was definitely the beginning of our final redemption. This was not the view, however, of Rabbi Joseph B. Solovetichik – a leading Torah sage of the 20th century who was associated with the Mizrachi movement for part of his life. He did not agree with those members of Mizrachi who proclaimed that the State of Israel was definitely the first flowering of our redemption.
Most Chareidim have taken a more cautious approach than most Religious Zionists regarding whether the establishment of the State was definitely the beginning of the final redemption. For example, when the State of Israel was established with the approval of the United Nations, Agudath Israel responded with the following proclamation:
“The world Agudath Israel sees as a historic event the decision of the nations of the world to return to us, after 2,000 years, a portion of the Holy Land, there to establish a Jewish State and to encompass within its borders the banished and scattered members of our people. This historic event must bring home to every Jew the realization that the Almighty has brought this about in an act of Divine Providence which presents us with a great task and a great test. We must face up to this test and establish our life as a people upon the basis of Torah. While we are sorely grieved that the Land has been divided and sections of the Holy Land have been torn asunder, especially Jerusalem, the Holy City, while we still yearn for the aid of our righteous Messiah, who will bring us total redemption, we nevertheless see the Hand of Providence offering us the opportunity to prepare for the complete redemption, if we will walk into the future as God’s people.” (The Struggle and the Splendor)
Another example of a Chareidi view on the establishment of the State of Israel are the following statements of the Chazon Ish, a leading Torah sage who was a major guide of most Chareidi communities in the Land of Israel:
“We are not witnessing the beginning of the redemption, but the conclusion of the exile.” (The Chazon Ish by Rabbi Shimon Finkelman)
“Perhaps it (the State) is the final test before the coming of the Messiah.” (Ibid)
The ongoing attacks of enemies seeking our destruction, the loss of some of the land which we regained during the Six-Day War, and the acknowledged moral breakdown within much of Israeli society are causing a number of Religious Zionists to reevaluate their belief that the establishment of the State of Israel was “definitely” the beginning of the final redemption. For example, Rabbi Shear Yashuv Cohen, a noted Religious Zionist who serves as the Chief Rabbi of Haifa, has made a small change in the way he recites the Religious Zionist prayer for the State: Instead of asking Hashem to bless the State of Israel as “the first flowering of our redemption,” he asks for a blessing “so that it will be the first flowering of our redemption” (cited in The Forward, May 5. 2006).
Since I moved to Jerusalem, I have lived and studied in both Religious Zionist and Chareidi communities. In previous letters, I began to share with you some insights which I gained from this experience, and there are additional insights which I hope to discuss in future letters. I also hope to discuss some signs of a future reconciliation between Religious Zionists and Chareidim. In the meanwhile, both groups are strengthening their efforts to lovingly reach out to our brethren in the Land who are not yet Torah-committed. As the Chazon Ish wrote regarding these brethren:
“It is incumbent upon us to draw them to us with bonds of love, so that the light of truth will illuminate their ways to whatever degree possible.” (Cited in The Chazon Ish by Rabbi Shimon Finkelman – ArtScroll.)
Shalom,
Yosef Ben Shlomo Hakohen (See below)
Related Information:
The term “Zionism” was coined by Dr. Nathan Birnbaum, who became the Secretary General of the World Zionist Organization. He began to question the movement’s stress on political goals, as he felt that there needed to be greater emphasis on the cultural strengths of the Jewish people.
In 1898, he left the Zionist movement in order to become involved with activists who focused on strengthening Jewish communities in the Diaspora, and who viewed the Yiddish language as the basis of Ashkenazic Jewish culture. He then developed an inner awareness of the spiritual goal of the Jewish people, and he returned to the path of the Torah. He began to challenge the modern paganism of his era, but he also challenged Torah-observant Jews to renew their commitment to the revolutionary vision of the Torah through developing holy and holistic communities. His community activism became inspired by Torah, and he became the Secretary General of Agudath Israel. This gifted leader had previously dedicated his life to strengthening organizations that sought to secularize our people, and he now began to dedicate his life to strengthening an organization that sought to spiritually renew our people.
Hazon – Our Universal Vision: http://www.shemayisrael.com/publicat/hazon
HERE IS ANOTHER DOCUMENT WITH PIECES IN COLOR THAT DOES NOT SHOW UP HERE.
I have a problem that I ask you to address—and by you, I mean a BIG POSEIK, such as Rav Chaim Kanievsky. The Torah says “midvar sheker tirchak,” meaning we cannot lie. Rav Yitzchak Zilber, the famous author of To Remain a Jew, while in Russia refused to sign certain affirmations to communism because these affirmations were atheistic and heretical, even though it meant he could not get a job and support his family. B”H, HaShem helped him anyway. I have the same problem here. While I do not know what H’ will do to help us, I have serious doubts if it is permitted to sign a heretical statement in order to gain the right, using this methodology, to support Kedushas Eretz Yisroel. While we must support Kedushas Ha’Aretz, perhaps we must go another route (rather than signing a heretical document) and pray H’ helps us.
The ballot requires checking a box that has this statement attached:
I declare that I accept the Jerusalem Program; I am Jewish; I will be at least 18 years of age by June 30, 2020; my permanent residence is in the United States; and I have not voted or will not vote in the March 2, 2020 Israel Knesset election.
Before I would click that I agree I want to see what the Jerusalem Program is, and I believe the declaration is heretical and forbidden to sign. I am copying over what it states and underlining in yellow the phrases that are objectionable, and explaining in blue, why I feel these signing agreement to these statements constitutes heresy and therefore it appears to me to be forbidden to sign. While I well understand the need to support Kedushas Eretz Yisroel, it is not at all clear to me that it is permitted to support Kedushas Ha’Aretz in a manner that requires denying the validity of the Torah.
Let me emphasize that the World Zionist Organization is a very influential body that has strong impact on decisions made by the Israeli govern. The WZO raises five billion dollars to be spent on causes approved by the members of the World Zionist Congress whose representatives are elected every five years—and many of these causes are anti-religious, such as supporting intermarriage in Israel, women’s minyanim at the Kosel and other places, the so-called legitimacy of homosexuality, running busses on Shabbos, and many other issues that are seriously problematic. By voting for a slate of religious Jews, we are able to elect representatives to the World Zionist Congress that will vote to use the money for holy causes, and not these bad ones. Certainly then, the need to oppose those bad causes and have the money used for better causes is of prime importance that I am not questioning. As important as it is to fight the bad causes and support the good causes, I wonder very seriously if it is permitted to join an organization which requires one to sign he (or she) believes in principles that are decidedly anti-Torah in order to gain the right to vote to elect as members of the Congress G-d fearing Jews who will support good causes.
THE JERUSALEM PROGAM
The Jerusalem Program is the official platform of the World Zionist Organization and the global Zionist movement, having been most recently amended and adopted in June 2004, as the successor statement to the “Basel Program” of 1897 adopted at the First Zionist Congress convened by Theodor Herzl, The Jerusalem Program states that: Zionism, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, brought about the establishment of the State of Israel, and views a Jewish, Zionist, democratic and secure State of Israel to be the expression of the common responsibility of the Jewish people for its continuity and future,
The Jerusalem Programs foundations of Zionism are:
The unity of the Jewish people, its bond to its historic homeland Eretz Yisrael, and the centrality of the State of Israel and Jerusalem, its capital in the life of the nation
Aliyah to Israel from all countries and the effective integration of all immigrants into Israeli society, I do not want immigrants to be integrated into Israeli society, which today is strongly anti-religious. As nice as this phrase sounds, it means that one aspect of this goal is to make immigrants non-religious.
Strengthening Israel as a Jewish, Zionist and democratic state and shaping it as an exemplary society with a unique moral and spiritual character, marked by mutual respect for the multi-faceted Jewish people, rooted in the vision of the prophets, A democratic state, by definition, is one in which there is no absolute right or wrong. If a democracy votes to make Hitler the leader, or to deny aid to Israel because it is racist, or mandates teaching in all schools that homosexuality is a legitimate alternate lifestyle, then this, by definition is what the society considers good and proper and is the law. It is absolutely contradictory to have a state that is Jewish (al pi din) and also a democracy. This contradiction is also in the Israeli Declaration of Independence as pointed out by Meir Kahane and others, and even goes much further. As a democracy if the Arabs are the majority, they can legally vote to expel all Jews—and Arafat once said if they, the Arabs, will not win by bullets, then they will win by babies (large birth rate). This is in fact happening. No, a Jewish state—even a secular one—cannot be a democracy as being Jewish and democracy at the same time are contradictory. America is not Christian, although many citizens are. All religions have equal rights. If it were Christian, it would no longer be a democracy.
Ensuring the future and the distinctiveness of the Jewish people by furthering Jewish, Hebrew and Zionist education, fostering spiritual and cultural values and teaching Hebrew as the national language; Being raised in a Mizrachi home in America, I believed that Zionism meant supporting the mitzvah of yishuv ha’aretz, and I could not understand why so many “ultra-Orthodox Jews were against Zionism. I could not wait for the time when I would go to Israel to spend a year in a yeshiva there, meet an anti-Orthodox charedi Jew and confront him with the question. “If a non-Orthodox Jew wants to do one mitzvah, such as to wear Tefilin or to eat matzah Pesach night, would you stop him or fight him, so then why do you object if a non-Orthodox Jew wants to be Zionist and do the mitzvah of living in Israel or building up the land? My great-aunt, an orthodox lady who made Aliyah years ago and lived in shikun Viznitz in B’nei Brak introduced me to rabbi who was an American who had also gone on Aliyah. I put my question to him, and his response unnerved me. He said clearly, “If ‘Zionism’ means ‘doing the mitzvah of living in Israel,’ then you are right, but it does not mean that.” He explained that the basic meaning and goal of Zionism is to replace the Torah as the unifying basis of Judaism with political nationhood which denies the validity of Torah—that by its very definition of the founders, Zionism meant to do away with the Torah—that it was not Divinely given, and even though following the mitzvos through centuries of galus helped keep the Jewish nation alive, even so, the mitzvos were not from G-D, but manmade, and it was now morally wrong to follow them once Jews move to Israel, as they were backwards and harmful, and it is important to indoctrinate the youth with the message that the Torah and mitzvos are wrong to believe and follow and quite harmful. I was totally shocked, and did not believe him, as to me Zionism meant doing mitzvos!, I challenged him, and he gave me documentation to read, and I found he was correct. Therefore, I no longer support Zionism when the word is used by non-religious Jews—but I do support it when it is used to mean doing mitzvos. By the way, this rabbi to whom I spoke, both a neighbor and a friend of my great aunt, was Rav Shimshon Pincus!.
Similarly, “cultural” means accepting certain values of what is good or not is to be based on the surrounding society, not on the Torah. Both of these ideas are complete heresy. I support what I used to call “Zionism”—believing in the importance of living in Israel and building it up, but I cannot sign a document saying I believe the Torah has been replaced by another set of values which this paragraph says twice—once in the word “Zionism” and once in the word “cultural.”
Nurturing mutual Jewish responsibility, defending the rights of Jews as individuals and as a nation, representing the national Zionist interests of the Jewish people, and struggling against all manifestations of anti-Semitism; This paragraph is self-contradictory, because if “Zionist interests” mean, even to some people, but not to everyone, replacing the Torah as the primary guide for Jews, then that is THE SINGLE most expression of anti-Semitism. There are many pesukim in the Torah to this effect, especially the Tochachos.
Settling the country as an expression of practical Zionism,
There are other documents I wish to send, but I do not know how to. One is by Rav Feldman where he quote the document “The Jerusalem Program” and explains why it is forbidden to sign agreement–it all seems vrylogical.
NONE of this is being against Israel, moving there, joining the army, etc. It is simply a matter of not being allowed to sign a document that says “I believe in _____, where that idea is heretical and clearly against the Torah. Too much of this ha been “Do you support Israel? or not. I am a modern orthodox Jew. I do support Israel. I do not support signing documents attesting to heresy!
@your worst nightmare is getting spicy
@”posek hador”
if it was going with a dada’s yacht not when its going with the consensus of gedolei yisroel
I never experienced any tag outage to log into eretz hakodesh. MB smart tag filter.
Is this true or not. Can we get some other people’s experiences here…
None of them would hesitate for a second to sign any Jerusalem program if it meant free childcare free governmental program free insurance.
All of the sudden you would see a thousand “heterim” you are just signing but you don’t believe it. Eretz hakodesh is signing in your behalf… Bla bla bla.
But now that it doesn’t affect their back pocket pocket, it’s all about “Kefira!!”
It boils down to one thing. They just don’t give a flying fart about what gets taught in Israel in the public schools. They don’t give a flying fart about yiddishkeit in Israel. Or about yidden in Israel.
All they care about is being frum.
Way to much to read through, I have one thing to say, I am BH a very close talmid of reb avrohom gurwicz, I spoke to him last week, and as he said, the old prohibition against wzo definitely doesn’t apply any more, because times have changed, I’m not gonna explain on depth why it has changed, but we don’t need proofs to show that times change, ask reb aharon Feldman, yes everyone is quoting him, so ask him why he allows limudei chol in his yeshivah, when the netziv and all the earlier gedolim were fire against it, the netziv even closed his yeshiva to stop it, yes reb aharon will tell you that times have changed, period, same thing here, reb aharon tried to call up reb avrohom, and reb avrohom respectfully explained to him why he disagrees, I’m not telling anyone what to do, but listen to your godol, and reb avrohom is the unified godol of European jewry…
Go vote. We need to take away as much money from the reform heretics. We can get a hundred thousand Orthodox Jews to vote.
We all know what the seforim say, that the great nisayon of acharis hayamim, in which we are living, is emunah. Emunah in Hashem includes believing that Hashem runs the world and everything transpiring within it, to the smallest seemingly insignificant detail, and only He is the only Koach. We also realize that Hashem requires our hishtadlus, but our hishtadlus actually accomplishes nothing, as only Hashem can effect anything. Hishtadlus, among other things, is a means of overcoming nisyonos, to earn Olom Habah. That is what this world is all about.
Part and parcel of emunah is emunas chachomim, trusting in our chachomim to alert us to nisyonos that our feeble minds may not easily discern, and to guide us thru overcoming these nisyonos.
Hashem created a yetzer hara, kochos hatum’ah, sitra achara, to create these nisayon situations. At the final geulah, bekorov, Hashem will do away with these kochos harah. The seforim say that these kochos harah will intensify tremendously before the final geulah, like a flame intensifies just as it is about to be extinguished. And these kochos harah will mostly challenge our emunah, sowing tremendous confusion. It is likened to everyone hanging on to a rope, as Hashem will shake the rope violently , and those who hang on tight will survive the nisyonos of emunah during acharis hayamim.
This entire debate about voting is exactly what happened at the time of the cheit ha’egel (last week’s parasha). Chazal tell us that the satan paraded an image of a dead Moshe Rabeinu around klall yisroel, which contributed to their confusion and led to the Cheit Ha’egel. Those with strong emunah were not fazed by this seemingly clear image, while many pointed to what their eyes clearly saw, that Moshe Rabeinu was no longer. Yet, they were wrong, despite the fact they saw it with their own eyes.
This is our nisayon here. The satan is working fervently overtime to be machshil innocent yidden to go against our mesorah, to joining/declaring allegiance/partnering with groups and ideas against our Torah, with the “best intentions” of hishtadlus to influence the WZO by voting, as if Hashem can’t handle the situation without our hishtadlus. Would you accept a person going to work on Shabbos, because he has to do hishtadlus? If the hishtadlus is an aveirah, then it’s obviously not Hashem’s ratzon.
Our gedolim are beseeching us not to fall prey to the Satan’s tricks of parading a “dead” Moshe rabeinnu in front of us, in the form of respected chachomim encouraging voting. This is our great nisayon… to follow the mesorah of the great Gedolim of our past and recent past, and those of today taking responsibility to preserve our mesorah, and fighting to wake Yidden up to the reality of this awful nisayon. The satan is trying to get his last licks and the image of a dead Moshe rabeinu is very powerful. Yidden!!! Hold on tight!!! Hashem will deal with the WZO, He doesn’t need us. He only wants us to be temimusdik in our emunah during this difficult nisayon and to declare MI LAHASHEM AYLAIY!!!! May we all be zoche to see the emes and make a nachas ruach to the Borei Olam, and thus be zoche to the geaulah sheleima bekorov.
Rav Aharon Feldman
Rav Meir stern
Rav elya ber vachtfogel
Rav sf schustel
4 BMG roshei yeshiva
Rav moshe Hillel Hirsch
Rav dov landau
And countless other big guns say not to vote.
How is this website prominently advertising to vote
When all these rabbonim in our win back yard oppose it
That is so disingenuous to say submit your ad of not to vote.
so what are you going to do have 2 pop-ups next to each other one stating vote and the other stating don’t vote.
BMG
r e ber
R shustal barely hold you vote in kneset elections. We don’t care
They hold AI is OSSUR. We don’t care.
They hold lace sheitels are treif. We don’t care.
They hold megillas Lester and pshuto shel mikra are kefira. We don’t care. Hashtag not my gedolim. (Not most people’s)