Former Chief Rabbi of Israel and member of the Moetzet Chachmei HaTorah, HaGaon HaRav Yitzchak Yosef, spoke out again on Sunday against Chareidim serving in the IDF.
During a sichah to yeshivah bochurim, HaRav Yosef said: “Even a batlan (someone who wastes time) is forbidden to serve in the army. Do you hear me? Absorb this message. My uncles, the brothers of Maran [HaGaon HaRav Ovadia Yosef, z’tl] learned in Yeshivat Porat Yosef and were talmidei yeshivos. They went to the army and were corrupted, they all became secular. Later, they did teshuvah.”
HaRav Yosef’s words caused an immediate media storm in Israel. The Shas party spokesperson tried to downplay the uproar by stating: “HaRav Yosef’s words were directed at the essential need to ensure appropriate frameworks for Chareidi youth who wish to enlist. There is no call for refusal in his words, chalilah.”
The Prime Minister’s Office issued a statement saying: “The remarks of former Chief Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef are unacceptable and worthy of condemnation. We will not accept any manifestations of refusal from any side.”
However, HaRav Yosef’s statements received support from an unexpected source. The “Wives of the Soldiers for the Kedushas HaMachaneh” movement responded to the uproar by corroborating HaRav Yosef’s concerns. Efrat Lupo, the founder of the movement, stated: “HaRav Yitzchak Yosef’s words express a genuine and significant concern and pain for Chareidi young men who chose to enlist in the IDF and lost their faith due to the lack of a framework suitable for their way of life. If a Chareidi young man loses his faith in the IDF – why would Chareidim want to enlist? The IDF must promote suitable frameworks to uphold a Torah lifestyle and thus open the ranks to thousands of Charedim wishing to enlist.”
Lupo added: “As wives of soldiers who have served in reserves for hundreds of days since the beginning of the war, while we have to sustain our homes practically and spiritually, we call on anyone who can contribute their part in the IDF to do so. However, we also often encounter cases where senior IDF officers choose to promote agendas and values that harm the spirit of the IDF and its kedushah as the army of the Jewish people. This is not why we sent our heroic husbands to face the cruel enemy for hundreds of days.”
“We call on senior IDF officers to cease promoting foreign agendas, to adhere to the values of Judaism, and to focus entirely on achieving absolute victory and destroying the enemy.”
About a month ago, Lupo revealed in a meeting of the Knesset’s Committee for the Advancement of the Status of Women, that her husband, who serves in the Paratrooper reserves, was forced to sleep alongside female soldiers during a a battalion exercise in Lebanon.
Lupo recounted during the discussion that she had received numerous inquiries from the wives of soldiers about similar incidents in various combat zones.
The Gender Affairs Advisor (GENAD) to the IDF Chief of Staff, Ella Shado-Shechtman, who participated in the discussion, ignored Lupo’s testimony.
After the discussion, Lupo approached Shado-Shectman and requested to meet in order to address the situation and prevent cases of violation of orders related to this issue. Shado-Shectman referred Lupo to her secretary, but so far, Lupo has not received a response regarding scheduling a meeting.
Lupo told Chareidim10: “Shado-Shectman boasts about the increase in the number of female combat soldiers, but when asked to discuss the implications for the motivation of religious combat soldiers and their wives, she remains silent.”
“We asked her what is being done to preserve the spiritual world of the combat soldiers, including our husbands, and we are waiting for an answer. Shado Shectman’s choice to avoid a meeting with us about stopping this phenomenon and assisting the IDF in achieving victory, is a disrespect to the soldiers and us as the wives of the soldiers who support the home front for the sake of victory in war.”
(YWN Israel Desk – Jerusalem)
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36 Responses
The Sfardi hashkofoh based on their own experience is clear: The IDF is a spiritual danger to any religious boy – period. We have heard this numerous times in the recent past from various sfardi gedolim. Whether ashkenasy gedolim agree or not, they know what they are talking about! The zionists just don’t want to admit that is the case. And certainly deny that is the purpose!
classic lsat question. “my brother went to yeshiva and now he’s not frum. Therefore, Yeshiva must be why he is not frum”
NOT listening to Rav Yosefs instructions to not enlist might in and of itself be Al Yahrog Val Yavor!! no one should heed his mistaken instructions. it is a Public Chillul Hashem! To sit and learn freely in a country on the backs of the blood of other young heroes (both religious and non religious) while you refuse to risk your life! and you convince others with this nonsense ?!
Regardless of your reasons this is a chillul Hashem.
i respect the talmid chochoms opinion. it is a machlokes among many talmidei hachachamim. but i don’t respect publicizing it. Keep it quiet if you think you aren’t on a level to overcome bad surroundings. Yaakov avinu LISTENED to rivka to go to Lavan — terrible surrounding. he turned out fine. Don’t pre judge others to say they are too spiritually weak to be in the army of heroes.
This is nothing new. The Chareidi Gedolim are against IDF service.
Whats the chiddush, and why is this causing an uproar?
אין חדש תחת השמש
I have no doubt, and fully respect, those gedolim Shlita who differ (if any) to the Psak of Rav Yosef and other Sfardi gedolim, in their view, experience and strategy to give a different psak to their talmidim and askonim no less important and correct.
Does anyone know what the childish was in his words they are nothing knew and are facts.
He cited facts and even if there is just a safeik that what occurred to his uncles will occur to you it is assur to join and we know that it is a lot more than a safeik that it will occur to you
And to the PMO get used to absolute refusal wherever you turn in the yeshiva sector
Here is a list of rabbis who are associated with the opinion that discouraging IDF enlistment could constitute a chillul Hashem::
1. Rav Avraham Yitzhak HaKohen Kook – Founder of Religious Zionism.
2. Rav Shlomo Goren – Former Chief Rabbi of Israel, involved in halachic issues within the IDF.
3. Rav Yehuda Amital – Founder of Yeshivat Har Etzion.
4. Rav Aharon Lichtenstein – Rosh Yeshiva of Har Etzion.
5. Rav Yaakov Meidan – Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivat Har Etzion.
6. Rav Moshe Lichtenstein – Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivat Har Etzion.
These rabbis emphasize the importance of contributing to the collective defense and well-being of the Jewish state as part of Torah values. They view active participation in the IDF—or at least refraining from discouraging others—as a way to avoid a chillul Hashem, particularly in the context of national unity and public perception.
Interesting.
He’s extrapolating to today’s IDF from the experiences of two uncles who served 76 years ago in the pre-war Irgun (R’ Eliyahu Yosef, born in 1928, was one of those brothers).
The entire state of Israel existence and essence from it’s beginning was to destroy the Torah from the Jews in the land of Israel and according to the satmer rabbi and historical notes the Holocaust was not above them, it was we want to live as a kind of proud Jews to destroy our Judaism anybody with eyes knew this, we never needed them they needed and still use us and till today we don’t need them for anything at all only evil people see protection in this state and nobody that gets persuaded to there lies and to there solemn will even see the heavenly court, once asked a rabbi in Israel how it is not considered “the blood of those people” the army that has no religious holiness and does much criminal acts, he made like he didn’t know what was asking and didn’t answer the question. But anybody that thinks and believes that we need them for something will eventually bring the third Holocaust
What’s the uproar!
I say even frei people shouldn’t join the army!
The army leaders care more about what CNN will say than the safety of their soldiers consequently putting them in harms way instead of bombing from the air.
If the and when the Likud leaders and the current army leaders are replaced with Yidden who care about every soldier life then we can discuss joining the army
Unfortunately the corruption of their Supreme Court and the wicked Attorney General and they’re extreme methods to destroy our holy students leave us no choice but to match their methods with provacating statements and antagonizing comments meant to get their attention and upset them even more. They have zero interest in negotiation and they are just sending criminal sanction letters to everyone’s house, so be it. I applaud the rabbi for speaking his mind and let the lefties cry about it
@amicable33 – Sonyou provide us with a list of Zionist Rabbonim who say it’s a Mitzvah to go to the IDF.
Ok. FINE.
What about the FACT that these same Rabbonim said there is an ISSUR KARES TO GO TO HAR HABAYIS – ANY PART OF IT. EVEN KNE INCH (Read the letters they signed!)?!?!
You’re just another Zionist faker.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/idfs-new-haredi-division
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/milchemet-mitzvah-article-by-rabbi-dr-ari-z-zivotofsky
Honestly anyone online who talks badly about the giant Rav yitchak yosef EVEN IF THEY DISAGREE still shows that the torah’s meaningless to them because it’s forbidden to speak against someone that knows that much Torah. There’s no religious person in Israel that denies his knowledge. So keep your heretic opinions to yourself
It’s wonderful how a casual comment of Rav Yosef Shlita in his home evokes such a violent reaction from the highest echelons of the Zionist scum. They know this is a threat to their doctrine.
The PM will rot in gehinom for commenting negatively on a talmid chochom.
Anyway, when will everyone realise that the establishment cannot be reaowned with?
People still think the purpose of the IDF is to protect the country/citizens from harm. It’s not. That’s just the excuse to conscript Jews. The main purpose is to shmad Jews. You can’t kasher a sheretz. Forget about it.
If we start looking at the fanatical and obsessive behaviour of the establishment, we will see they are actually not stam chilonim. They have every sign of a religious cult hell bent on destroying anything Jewish. If you research a bit, you will find factual corroboration to this effect. See things for what they are, and stop barking up the wrong tree.
*”cannot be reasoned with”
On behalf of the Kavod of all the Bnei Yeshivot Hesder currently serving in the army, or who gave their lives Al Kidush Hashem in defense of Klal Yisrael (yes, including those misguided ones in the Chareidi community), I am Mocheh against the untruths that this leader of Shas has seen fit to publicize. If he has such little confidence in the ability of Chareidi youth to stay Frum while in the army, it says more about the Chinuch the Chareidi system is providing them than it does about the army. If he and his fellow Chareidi leaders spent as much effort developing a system that stayed in touch with and supported Chareidim in the army (which the Yeshivot Hesder have) as they do fighting against serving, it would be much more productive.
As to the wife who complained that her husband “was forced to sleep alongside female soldiers during a a battalion exercise in Lebanon” – what is going on in Lebanon is actual war, not an “exercise”, ant what sleeping there is does not involve getting into pajamas and getting into bed – it means catching a few hours on whatever surface possible, with others going in and out constantly, while in full uniform – including boots and often helmet and body armor. It would be really nice if it were possible to have separate areas for men and women, but this is a real shooting war zone, and it’s not always possible to find more than one relatively safe area to rest for a bit.
Chosamo shel HKB”H Emes – it would behove this Shas leader – and YWN, for that matter – to actually present the full picture of what the situation is on the ground. Creating straw men to tear down does not help minimize the Chilul Hashem they’re creating.
an Israeli Yid
Amicables ridiculous question
My brother studied Torah every day with a charges and became a murderer so the Torah which is called Chayim caused him to kill people? No he became a murder despite the influence of the Torah
But if somebody was a regular yeshiva brochure and joined the idf and went off the derech it’s not despite the idf that he went otd, it’s because of the idf
Amicables ridiculous question
My brother studied Torah every day with a chavrusa and became a murderer so the Torah which is called Chayim caused him to kill people? No he became a murder despite the influence of the Torah
But if somebody was a regular yeshiva bochur and joined the idf and went off the derech it’s not despite the idf that he went otd, it’s because of the idf
lbj. it’s a safek you will get kilked if you step in a car. therefore it’s assur to get in a car. BAD LOGIC.
אין לנו: bad logic! just because decision makers on top aren’t perfect in their decisions , that doesn’t mean it’s not a chillul Hashem to speak loshon hora about joining the army of heroes.
i agree that we should be doing a lot more bombing from the skies and less soldier risking, but those decisions are way more complicated with global implications. if israel was sanctioned and became a pariah like north korea, that is dangerous too.
either way , this is no reason to discourage joining the great army of heroes. bad logic to you. you need to learn more gemara and sharpen the logic.
@amicable33
Who are you to say not to listen to the words of an adam gadol! who do you think you are?
Just because you have some rabbis that say different (are any of them even sefardi…) doesn’t mean you can tell people not to listen (especially if they are sefardi).
my understanding is that theyre all zionistic rabbis, and that they aren’t part of the yeshiva/charedi world so dont quote them on a forum where we (hopefully) follow the chareidi gedolim
so if you (any Rabbi that dare speak against idf soldiers) why live in a country where others are risking their hides for you ?
Go to a different country (who will take you as a jew? the list is few) and see how your ruchnius fairs in a different Land WHERE YO DONT SOEAK THE LANGUAGE. you’re afraid to be with what you believe is Lavan in the army for a couple years i (mind you a very high percentage are actually Gd fearing jews and some come out More religious) because that could turn you off. But moving to another country wouldn’t?
BAD LOGIC.
just remember. your sitting on that nice chair on the blood of soldiers who gave their lives. your eating your nice breakfast on their blood. your learning the gemara on their blood. your walking free to shul on their blood. what? you believe it’s actually your torah learning doing it?? Your soymech on that nays? So be somaych on your torah that it will keep chareidi soldiers chareidi! HYPOCRITE!
Rabbis who come out with these statements make other people less frum!!!!!!
@amicable33
The real Chillul Hashem is undermining our Torah authorities and causing discord. Respect the wisdom of our Gedolim, or keep your misguided opinions to yourself.
@amicable33
its funny you are on yeshivaworldnews. maybe start your own website (idfworldnews.com) and spread you kfira there
to Mr. amicable33 -“To sit and learn freely in a country on the backs of the blood of other young heroes (both religious and non religious) while you refuse to risk your life! and you convince others with this nonsense ?!”
A soldier whose serves in the Kirya or one who works in a kitchen, warehouse, radio station, air force base (not a pilot)- all do NOT risk their lives!!
only 17% of the soldiersy are fighting soldiers, the majority of the rest are quit comfortable!!
To Reb Emes- 100% right. HaRav Yitzchak is a walking Torah and Schulchan Orach.
Having just completed my IDF service through a Charedi draft program, I can say with 100% certainty that the best place in the world for a batlan is in the IDF.
It will teach him hard work, timekeeping, and responsibility.
Ironically, he will probably also learn more during the compulsory sedarim and shiurim than he does in his batlan life.
amicable- you, obviously to all have zero logic
it is not a good chance when stepping in a car that you will get in an accident, or ppl wouldnt get in a car.
thats not called a safeik..a safeik does not mean there is a possibility, if it unlikely. it does not constitute a safeik
someone who joins the idf from a chareidi background there is a good chance (a very good chance) that his ruchniyus will tank, and thats why ppl should not join
The biggest chillul hashem are those who support the army and the medinah which is founded and based on kefirah and is run by ppl who are literally sonei hashem.
how can anyone whos a chored ledvar hashem want to have any association whatsover with such people.
how ironic is it that those who mention chillul hashem most, are blind to their whole movement which is one big chillul shem shomayim
If someone is learning Torah, they protect Eretz Yisroel with their Torah learning (like the Gemara says that Dovid and Yoav were partners in battle, Dovid through Torah study, and Yoav through fighting the wars).
If someone is not learning Torah, what right do they have to evade service? “Why is your blood redder than you fellow’s”!?
Why should being in the army cause someone who is strong in their Yiddishkeit to go off the derech?
However, females should absolutely not be serving in the army. Since it is against halacha, it can only cause more harm than good, like trying to put out a fire with gasoline, r”l.
Menachem ..”Why should being in the army cause someone who is strong in their Yiddishkeit to go off the derech? ”
you ask why, but it does cause it. you want to know why. why does it matter why if it does.
the reason it does is very simple the yetzer hara is very strong and effects all ppl the greatest of ppl if they find themselves in the wrong surroundings.
HaRav Asher arieli when asked about his zechus of tremendous harbotzas haotorah stated that since his bar mitzvah he was very careful from speaking loshon hara and never stepped foot onto rechov Yafo.
rebEmes
Korach was a big gadol. So were the rabbis who did not stand up at the bar kamtza. the BM was then destroyed. Too bad noons spoke out against those Rabbis.
Reuben and Gad — are they big enough for you? They did not want to go to war and Moshe Rabbeinu said “you’re going”.
BS”D
There is nothing like the truth.
Amicable- I could see where you’re coming from and that the emotions are running High, but just the choice of wording you use and how belittling you speak of those who are learning Torah as if they are doing nothing with their time whatsoever is proof that you don’t even know what they are learning. And anyone who could speak about rabbinical authorities in this way cannot be called a religious person. Ask any of those rabbis if they pray for the soldiers and how much they dedicate the learning of that day to their success and the answers will all be positive. It took me almost a year just to master basic laws of Shabbos and that’s without learning the Talmud and mishna aspect. There are hundreds of other mitzvos and to get through our Torah literally takes a lifetime of studying, somebody has to do it. There is value in doing it. And the only way our religion continues is because of those who do it. It’s safe to say that the continuation of halacha and limud is NOT going to Merit a continuation from people who are speaking like you. Look at the level of attendance in many modern Orthodox synagogues and those who mix into those Nazi universities they like going to. So many of them went down the tubes. Their system is not succeeding and we are learning the hard way. The very least we should stop criticizing those who are trying to do better. If you don’t have any value for those who sit and learn you need to go find out why because the gemara is loaded with sources for the protection that learning provides. All you need to do is open one to find out
A number of facts:
The IDF regularly issues contraceptives freely to female soldiers because it’s cheaper than performing all the abortions they would have to perform otherwise. Think about the implications.
Of the 90 farmers in the region surrounding Gaza who kept shmita, zero suffered any damage, personal or property, in the events on and following that Simchas Torah. Think about the implications.
One unit commander before taking his unit out on a mission expected to last three hours told the one Chareidi soldier in the unit that rather than participate in the mission, he would sit at the base and say Tehillim and daven for them. An hour later the unit came back and the commander told the Chareidi soldier that as a result of his prayers they had accomplished what was expected to take three hours in just one hour, and from now on whenever they went out on missions that Chareidi soldier was going to stay back and daven for them.
Not a fact but a question: Were the wars of the last 15 months or so more about defending the lives of the majority of citizens or about defending a regime which promotes desecration of the sanctity of the Holy Land through events like the debauched and drugged “Rave” Festival, and a culture which encourages travel to European centers of hedonism to watch sporting events and take in the drinking and drugged culture of those places over devotion to Torah and avodas Hashem?
To Por- another serious qurstion: why were 4 RELIGIOUS Zionist Major Generals released from further service, e.g. Ofer Winter, Nachum Mendel,
when the unreligious officers, directly responsible for the wa,r promoted???