In a tense hearing at the High Court of Justice, judges challenged the government’s legal counsel, Attorney Doron Taubman, on the issue of conscripting Charedim into the army, pressing Taubman to explain why the government cannot commit to drafting even a small percentage of the approximately 63,000 eligible men.
The hearing comes as part the court’s response to petitions filed by left-wing organizations demanding that all funding to yeshivos be permanently halted and that the IDF immediately begin drafting Chareidim.
The petitions are being deliberated by an expanded panel of nine judges headed by acting Supreme Court President Uzi Vogelman.
After the Chareidi draft law expired, the Supreme Court issued an interim order halting funding to yeshivos for bochurim ages 18-26. Sunday’s hearing will determine whether to continue the ban on funding yeshivos and whether draft notices will sent to tens of thousands of bochurim and avreichim.
Acting Supreme Court President Uzi Vogelman referenced Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara’s statement that the IDF does not need to draft every single eligible Charedi man, but rather can do so gradually. Vogelman emphasized that the High Court’s 2017 ruling, which deemed mass military service exemptions illegal and discriminatory, must be taken into account.
Taubman argued that the government cannot dictate to the IDF and Defense Ministry how to draft Charedi men, citing various considerations such as the army’s capacity to absorb soldiers with unique religious requirements and societal effects. However, Justice Noam Sohlberg pointed out that the IDF had previously declared it could accept 3,000 Charedi soldiers, questioning how it could not absorb that number, especially during a time of war.
Justice Yael Wilner further pressed Taubman, demanding to know if the government supports or opposes the limited conscription of 3,000 Charedi men. Taubman responded, “We have not addressed the conscription of 3,000 men in principle.”
Ahead of the hearing, Harav Dov Landau urged Charedim across the country and world to say Tehillim during it, beseeching Rachamei Shamayim to allow lomdei torah to continue their lifelong work.
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29 Responses
Simple they don’t really need them it’s all politics
Let them all leave Israel this is not the Israel that we are praying for we want the Israel with the Messiah only you took money from the country all your life you grew up with that money you are fed with that money now they have a right to request it back by accepting all those funds you sold your body and your soul to the new Israel that you erroneously thought has any connection with the original isreal leave the country say goodbye and start praying for the Messiah and for the real Israel. Wake up and smell the coffee.
why cut funding to yeshivas simply because the IDF can’t get it’s evil act together and draft the buchorim?
Rabbi Landau:
Praying is important but showing OPEN defiance with the level of mesiras nefesh, emboldens ehrliche yidden and speaks louder
Mamzeirim
“Justice Noam Sohlberg pointed out that the IDF had previously declared it could accept 3,000 Charedi soldiers, questioning how it could not absorb that number, especially during a time of war.” To the contrary – during a war the army has much more to do with its very limited resources than accommodate the special needs of Chareidim. The army also realizes that it has better things to do with its limited resources than chase down bochurim from groups like Satmar and Dushinski, who in any case are never going into the army and will instead go to jail. The government is afraid that if it pushes too hard it will drive more groups into that extreme category of yeihareg v’al ya’avor, but the court doesn’t seem to get that message, and the government is probably afraid to state the obvious truths too openly. Hashem ya’azor.
In Tanach, Sefer Shoftim, [the Book of Judges] chapter 5,
the Prophetess Deborah [Devorah HaNeviyah],
sings a Divinely-inspired song [shirah].
In chapter 5, verses 12 to 16, she publicly praises
those Jews who fought against the enemies of Israel.
Then she publicly REBUKES those Jews who did
NOT join the fight against the enemies of Israel.
================================
In Tanach, in Sefer Shmuel Aleph, chapter 18, verse 7,
we see Shaul HaMelech and the General of Shaul’s Army,
David ben Yishai. (This was before David became King.)
They are both returning home from recent victory in war.
We see the Jewish women publicly praising both of them:
“…SHAUL HAS SLAIN HIS THOUSANDS AND
DAVID [HAS SLAIN] HIS TENS OF THOUSANDS.”
From this we see that the soldiers who fight our enemies
deserve to be publicly praised and thanked.
We also see from this that those soldiers who slay
more of our enemies deserve even greater praise
than those soldiers who only slay a few of our enemies.
If the Left isn’t willing to come to the table with an open mind, attentive ear, and the willingness to compromise, this will clearly end in civil war and thus putting the whole country in danger from our enemies. Their stupidity and wickedness is breaking the Achdut that is SO vital right now with a war going on!!!!
The more the Zionists fight Torah and its adherents, the sooner that Zionism and all its manifestations will disappear forever.
The yeshiva guys were tearing up posters of killed Jewish soldiers
Chillul hashem
If this doesn’t remind you of the Talmidim of rabbi Akiva not treating other Jews with respect I don’t know what does?
The army has made it impossible to be Torah & Mitzvos observant while serving. They do not respect the volunteer soldier who wishes to daven with a minyan, who wishes not to mingle with the female conscripts and hear them sing etc. These are real problems for the chareidi youth.
Are you actually comparing the Jewish army during the time of Devorah haneviyah and King Shaul’s army to the IDF? That is laughable.
What’s the official excuse for the working charedi men to not be drafted?
During WWII my great-uncle was drafted into the American army. First he demanded Cholov Yisroel Dairy products. Then he demanded Bais Yosef meat. Then he demanded Yoshon. Then he demanded a Hashgacha from an obscure Rebbe in Boro Park with a following of 4 families. By the time all these requirements were met the war was over.
When asked if he didn’t feel an achryos as a Yid to fight the Nazis he replied, “There are millions of Goyim that can die fighting the Nazis but how many Yidden are there that can sit in the comfort of their home in New York reciting Tehillim?”
If it worked then it can work now for the Charedim in E”Y.
Many years ago a friend of mine, a very fine ben Torah with strong midos, went to a Rav who is a big ohev Yisroel and said he wanted to go into the army where he felt he could do a lot to bring people closer Torah and mitzvos, a goal he thought the Rav would be sympathetic to. But the Rav answered, there is not one single pure woman in all of the army (he was more explicit). Don’t think that the fact that you have a wife and children with give you any protection whatsoever, I know people no less fine than yourself who have fallen in very deep. In recent years the army made a decision that it would be cheaper for them to give out contraceptives indiscriminately to any chayelet requesting them than performing all the abortions they had been doing previously, והמבין יבין. And the Torah teaches us, והיה מחניך קדש לא יראה בך ערוות דבר ושב מאחריך. Many big Rabbonim Ashkenazim and Sefardim are saying the same thing in one way or another.
@Square _ root
you remind me why the yeshiva system focuses on “lomdus” and not halacha and Tanach.
For without “lomdus”, the other too are worthless.
Lomdus is hard to define as there is no English word that adequately describes it.
“critical analyses” is probably a good start for a definition, but its not your regular ivy league style analysis. no, that would never pass muster, its as much a logical endeavor as it is too an emotional rubric and temperamental characteristic in approach to understanding the accurate meaning of the Holy Torah.
It takes years to hone, and honesty and humility to develop.
Suffice it to say that your comparisons to Shaul and Dovid dont even make it out of the gate.
The Chareidim would be the first to fight a war were the Torah to call for it! And the Israeli govt should know that untill they wish to be harbingers of Kavod Shamayim, they can count the Chareidim out of their silliness.
I am wondering if they would agree to defer the draft for chareidim until they get married. Then they would have the option to serve in an office type of recruitment like intelligence where chareidim could get training and serve in a strictly frum environment, as I understand the court agreed to draft a small number of chareidim. Perhaps the amount of men who go to work after they marry might be sufficient, does anyone think this could work?
Square root- You write absolute garbage! Bringing your own proofs from Tanach shows you are a total ignoramus. See Sefer Hachinuch 495 where he clearly instructs we have a mitzvah min haTorah to adhere to the instructions of the greatest Torah scholars of our time- IN ALL MATTERS.
If they say we join the army then we join-if they say we don’t -then we DON’T.
Our gedolim also know Tanach!!!
I read some of these comments with a level of amusement at the level of ignorance of the current state of the Israeli Army. As the parent of a young man who served in a frum unit I can safely state many of you have no clue how they operate. The “Tzionim” you lambast are a noisy minority of the population (see Labor and Meretz vote counts), they have no calling now that their pathetic version of the Zionist Dream has been accomplished. We are fighting the war of today. Go learn some Nach to get some understanding where we are up to in the timeline of events Hakadosh Baruch Hu dictated must occur before the coming of Moshiach and the Binyan of Bayit Shlishi.
Netzach Yehuda is an all-Charedi unit of the IDF. Past that, there are many truly inspiring יראי שמים and בני תורה from the Hesder yeshivot who serve proudly.
It completely goes against the time-honored Jewish values of פיקוח נפש and אחדות to shirk one’s duty as a Jew to stand with these brave Jewish boys (either on the battlefield or in spirit) even while enjoying the security provided by them, sneering in sanctimony as they bravely defend the Jewish People against her implacable enemies.
Let the words of Nechemiah show us the way:
וַיְהִי כַּֽאֲשֶׁר שָׁמַע סַנְבַלַּט וְטֽוֹבִיָּה, וְהָֽעַרְבִים וְהָֽעַמֹּנִים וְהָֽאַשְׁדּוֹדִים כִּי־עָֽלְתָה אֲרוּכָה
לְחֹמוֹת יְרֽוּשָׁלַם, כִּֽי־הֵחֵלּוּ הַפְּרֻצִים לְהִסָּתֵם, וַיִּחַר לָהֶם מְאֹֽד
וַיִּקְשְׁרוּ כֻלָּם יַחְדָּו לָבוֹא לְהִלָּחֵם בִּירוּשָׁלָם, וְלַֽעֲשׂוֹת לוֹ תּוֹעָֽה
וָאֵרֶא וָֽאָקוּם וָֽאֹמַר אֶל־הַֽחֹרִים וְאֶל־הַסְּגָנִים וְאֶל־יֶתֶר הָעָם: “אַל־תִּֽירְאוּ מִפְּנֵיהֶם! אֶת־אֲדֹנָי הַגָּדוֹל וְהַנּוֹרָא זְכֹרוּ! וְהִלָּֽחֲמוּ עַל־אֲחֵיכֶם, בְּנֵיכֶם וּבְנֹֽתֵיכֶם, נְשֵׁיכֶם וּבָֽתֵּיכֶֽם
(נחמיה פרק ד)
“But it came to pass that, when Sanvallat, and Toviah, and the Arabs, and the Ammonites, and the Ashdodites, heard that the repairing of the walls of Jerusalem went forward, and that the breaches began to be stopped, then they were very wroth; and they conspired all of them together to come and fight against Jerusalem, and to cause confusion therein…
“And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people: ‘Be not ye afraid of them! Remember Hashem, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brethren, your sons and your daughters, your wives and your houses!'”
(Nechemiah, chapter 4)
To ccb45: That’s why Rav Landau is the gadol hador, while you are just an armchair pundit. Open defiance is nothing more than a massive chillul Hashem. It accomplishes less than zero. If we believe in the power of Torah and Tefilla to defend Israel, then that same power can defend us against them.
BY1212: Not all chareidim. YWN has reported on an increase in voluntary enlistment by Yeshiva students after the October 7th attacks and Netzah Yehuda and similiar IDF units created for their service. And those who decline to serve are doing so because of admonitions from their roshei yeshivot
Sugya25 brings Chinuch 495 – that says that in our time, absent beis din hagodol and there are different opinions, we need to be machmir in meduraita and meikel in midrabonan. Now, in this case, there are meduraitas on all sides – saving lives v learning Torah … kiddush/hillul Hashem possible in both directions. The only way I can see you are using Chinuch is by refusing to view opposite vioews as legitimate. This seems what Chinuch is warning AGAINST – calling to satisfy multiple opinions in the above way.
BaalSechel:
I’m not against tefillah but is it really different from the times of R’Chaim V and R’Chaim O, The Rashab of lubavitch, rogotchover, when they openly defied czarist Russia? The Chofetz C was in agreement.
The Malthus tsionus, how is this different? Is it because it’s yid against yid? It’s time to stand up for kvod hatorah.
I’m not trying to fight him; I just don’t understand it. If we come strong, they have no shlita bs”d.
In America if we tell the gov to back off on education, they will. Is it the money? I’m just pointing out how we dealt with obstinate and hard necked governments or entities.
Please explain my “mistaken” thinking
Ari Knobler:
Maybe stop comparing today’s Israel to the times when it was called E”Y and we were al mechono. The nach and the other passages aren’t applicable as loony as we’re in golus. Use different logic but not pesukim you are misconstruing.
It’s correct and just that gedolim in Europe at the beginning of the Zionist movement, suggested to refrain from Nach teaching, especially in public or school.
Read from the tzaddikim in the yesteryear where they felt that Zionism has take pesikim and vilified it
Ari Knobler, the posek says “…Remember Hashem, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brethren, your sons and your daughters, your wives and your houses!” The posek says, fight FOR your sons and daughters, the posek doesn’t say the daughters should fight! As much as I support Jews defending the themselves, the IDF is NOT the Jewish army that was in the times of Tanach!
“…gedolim in Europe at the beginning of the Zionist movement, suggested to refrain from Nach teaching.”
Your Gedolim, perhaps.
I understand where you’re coming from. Ignorance is bliss.
“deemed mass military service exemptions illegal and discriminatory”- so if this is really applied , the large Israeli Arab population must also be drafted and their education and schools defunded if they don’t serve. Think the Supreme leftist Court will really hold to their ” principles”?
Ari Knobler:
Actually, we had a problem since haskalah but since Zionism used nach for nationalism, it wasn’t encouraged in many circles. I’m not Satmar but go around asking hareidim about nach vs the Torah (5 books) and you’ll see what I’m saying.
Nowadays there’s thought about learning it because we are removed from the blasphemy of Zionism.
And – I wonder where you’re coming from?