Last week, the batei din of Betar Illit reached a decision that will undoubtedly have ramifications in other chareidi areas of the country. The beis din decided that parents who are connected to the Internet in their homes have given up the right to have their children enter the city’s educational network. This will compel all of the mosdos in Betar Illit to make Internet-disconnect a precondition to the acceptance of children in the school system.
Until now, the prerequisite may have been in existence in one or more of the community’s kehilos, but now, following the decision of the rabbonim, it applies top all mosdos of all communities in Betar Illit.
Betar is waging an all-out war against the Internet, and according to a report appearing in the Belz-affiliated BaKehilla, the move enjoys the total support of Maran Elyashiv Shlita and Maran Shteinman Shlita. The two gedolim have signed the p’sak, along with the leading admorim in Betar. One of the leaders of the move is HaGaon HaRav Tzvi Braverman, a member of the city’s badatz.
Responding to questions from “BaKehilla”, Rav Braverman explained the badatz was addressing problems in their city, including school dropouts, education, sholom bayis, and modesty, focusing on Internet use. “We conferred with rabbonim from other areas too, and we came to the decision that we must address this problem for if not, it will chas v’sholom bring about a tragedy, and I am not exaggerating.”
The rav explained that Betar is unique in that it is a Torah community, a community in which the word of the rabbonim is adhered to, and in essence the school system is tied to them, the rabbanim. As such, they are compelled to act regarding this urgent issue.
“This is the only community in the world in which its bylaws authorize the beis din to assign talmidim to schools.”
When asked if the beis din’s decision may be one that the tzibur cannot adhere to, referring to those with an Internet connection to earn a livelihood, the rav responded with another question, why it is acceptable to shun students if parents have a television, pointing out the Internet is infinitely more dangerous than television.
Rav Braverman adds that the damage caused or the potential damage from the Internet is devastating, and “the flood it can bring into our homes can drown all that is holy to us. If we do not act in time, we may be standing next to a broken vessel and I am restraining myself.”
“Each generation has its trials but our generation was sent the ultimate, because with the Internet, one can do his thing in private, totally unnoticed, and then appear in public as fearing Hashem while his head and mind are in the gutter.”
The rav quickly adds that most of tzibur is fine, but is aware there are those in kollel who outwardly appears just fine, but in essence, they are elsewhere.
“The number of chareidim using the Internet and falling, both at home and at work, is not a few individuals as many would like to believe. We are dealing with real numbers and the problem is growing and expanding.”
When asked if adults are not old enough to make such decisions, the rav stated that one may not place oneself in spiritual jeopardy, which is the case with the Internet. He added that many accidentally stumble to sites and then fall, aware that one does not always intentionally seek areas that should be prohibited but somehow does access them.
The message the rav say is simple, “just as one would not bring an explosive device into one’s home since it endangers the family, one may not bring the Internet into the home or office, because doing so endangers one soul, one’s future and one’s family.”
The rav acknowledges the “true dilemma” since there are businesses that are totally Internet-based and others that rely on the Internet in part. The rav adds however that gedolim have called to remove the Internet threat, as was done with the television, and cellular telephones not certified by rabbonim [those with Internet access and SMS text messaging abilities].
Regarding those who absolutely must have Internet for work, he advises they consult with a gadol prior to accepting such a job and if there is “absolutely no alternative,” which at times there is not, one must opt for one of the acceptable plans that limit the online access. Nevertheless, Rav Braverman states there cannot be a “kosher” or “mehadrin” Internet and even the company now advertising and accepted by the Dati Leumi community he says cannot be “kosher but it is not to’eva”. Those options are catering to the Dati Leumi sector, which has significant Internet demands, and offer a partial nechama.
In reference to such plans, mentioning Etrog (from Rimon Company) and Kav V’Naki, Natir, and Nativ, stating they purify the impure and defile the pure.
The rav points out that accessing a secular newspaper, even one that is deemed respectable, should not be brought into a chareidi home.
“And now a message to parents – those unable to adhere to this minimum demand should not turn to the beis din to assign their child to a yeshiva in the community.”
In conclusion, the rav calls for adherence and for those absolutely requiring internet, they should immediately opt for the restricted services that at least minimize the dangers.
(Yechiel Spira – YWN Israel)
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49 Responses
Doesn’t it make more sense to teach people how to deal with this seruous problem rather than ban it? It is a ban that will not be kept…. Unlike television which is purely entertainment, the internet is very necessary for many people. So many parnassos are dependent on it. Let’s spend time, money and energy in teaching our communities how to deal with these dangers. We will get a lot further. Hashem should protect us all from the evils of the yetzer hora.
Comment #1,
Although I do respect our rights to make our own decision, I think that generally, people need management, and in our particular case, the Rabbonim become our managers. When there’s a problem and when we need brochos, we knock on their doors at all hours of the day. Therfore, I would expect and appreciate their right and ability “manage” our life styles at the same time. If the people who we turn to for brochos and general guidance tell us no Internet, we’ve got to accept that. If we need it, we need to consult with them on a one off basis for a heter to use it.
The reality is that it is a very big problem for us in the frum world, the satan was matzliach to bring the gutter into our homes, just look at the yeshivah community for example, up until the internet age your average yeshivahman did not have the NYTimes, NY Post, Daily news etc, in his home, now he would be a tzadik like Yosef if that was the extent of the streetlife that he is exposed to. We really need to come up with a plan, i had an idea but im not much of a doer, to work with an ISP that will make publicly available all browsing history of the customer – so it would be avail for all to see the sites that were visited, presumeabely this would be a big deterent from going to improper sites
that said, i still dont believe that people should be blackmailed into not having internet by throwing their families out of a community, if the school doesnt want kids from these families than they need to open other schools for them
Comment #4
i would agree in theory – but they have no right to impose themselves as “Our Rabbonim” we have the right to choose who our rabbonim are without them shoving their views on us
I think the godols of the previous generation (and before) certainly read all the daily newspapers. I assume this is for the private school system not the public schools? In any case, so much business and research is done on the internet that I don’t think this ban can be effective. I don’t understand how they could enact such a thing.
I wish the Rebbeim would focus on teaching ethics and common decency . I have had many bad experiences while shopping in Beitar Illit including pushing, lying, and an attempt to cover up an accident that was obviously the fault of one of the residents against a non-resident. In 15 years from now when none of these kids can find jobs who0 will bw supporting them?
Why do we continue to blame the outside influences for our problems?
this is ridiculous … whether for good or for bad, the internet has become a neccessity (unlike television … what a bad comparison).
Banning it, like all the other bans that have been “instituted,” are simply knee jerk reactions, that are used to not have to deal with the responsibilty to find a pragmatic, possible solution. Like all the other bans that the rabbonim have instituted, it will be ridiculed, and will not really accomplish anything.
I don’t know who is informing these Rabbonim (and i’m sure that they are doing this with righteous intentions), but I am convinced that there is serious miscommunication between the Rabbonim and their “informers” (see the anatomy of a ban for another prime example of this).
Banning things generally exacerbate the problems, not solve them. The internet is a vital part of communication. There are things that we can do. There are filters that can screen things up to a point. U will never be able to screen everything, especially if u need to do medical research. We can also lobby to force the purveyors of indecent websites to change from dotcom to dotwhatever (I don’t need to specify that on here), and be able to have ur computer set up so as not to be able to access them.
Then we have to be parents. To ourselves as well. Put the computer in a pulic place in the house where everyone can see what is going on. Check the history.
I can’t tell Rabbonim what to do, but I think that these are all good solutions. Nothing is failsafe, but neither are bans.
Nebech is all that can be said about most of the above comments.
To quote a wise man;
They are simply like stalks of wheat in the field of Golus, under the influence of whatever current goyish wind is blowing.
They are hardly to be blamed, they were never taught what Yiddishkeit means. They were born in an era of the greatest darkness in the history of the world, but think they walk in light.
They fulfill the Pasuk of “Hoster Hester”. not only is His face hidden, but they dont even know that it is hidden.
OK, so this would mean now both my husband & I are out of work. My son in law has to close his business. So he, his wife, & 4 kids are on welfare, they’ll lose their home, & they can’t support Yeshivos any more. My son in law the Rabbi cannot reach his long-distance Talmidim/Balabatim who learn with him on line.
This is insane! Ban Parnassah, concerts, but let pedophiles run rampant & protect them. What is going on here? Furthermore…what’s next?
And what-Go a day without the YWN????? You gotta be kidding me…How else would everyone know about the bans if not for the internet? :O
I remember from way back when, that there was an adveritsement for a certain pack of cigarets. It was an ad with a picture of a cowboy riding a horse. Myself, being a non smoker, never use to think too much about it. However, this company, not only has put a lot of tought into it, they spend millions banking on the influence this picture will have on the American public. Or in other words the image is now burned into our minds and when someone who does smoke goes shopping, they now associate this brand with being more manly, rugged and tough.
In the Western world, (USA) we are in galus and constantly bombarded with such concepts. Not only is this found in the mainstream media but in the “Kosher” publications as well. Where we go for Pesach (whether it be on a tour guide of the old city of Europe to the commerical disney world resort), what type of sheitel our wives wear, the seforim shank we have in our living room, the furnature that we decorate to even what goes in our bathroom. We are exposed to this materialism and gives us the impression that for me to be
“with it” I need to have the luxuries.
We are also exposed to news on the radio, the music blasting in the stores, the way people dress in the streets, the politics of who they say we should vote for. We have sport icons who are idolized but are far from being heros. Leaders who have fallen from grace. Plus the image of what is normal to society means to abandon religion and do your own thing. These are subtle messages (and often not subtle) that we are exposed to
Betar is isolated from the world in many ways. It is a place where you can walk down the streets and not have to look at inapproapriate pictures. The kids do not know of baseball, football and the like (which for them would be a distraction from how they lead thier lives) and have other means to entertain themselves. It’s a very pure existance of which we do not even know what it could be like. The exposure of the internet is more than just the gelu arayos & shfichas domin aspects. It’s bringing in concepts and unneccessary distractions that they would never be exposed to.
So while I would never support something like that here, I can hear where they are coming from. I don’t understand why it’s the children that have to suffer by being denied an education, ( I think that plain and simple that they would have to move out of Batar) but obvoiusly they need to make strong adjustments to counter a very real threat.
While I’m not a Posek and I won’t comment on whether Mutter or Ossur (of the internet). I do want to comment on this town, isn’t this the town where the tzinius patrol physically attacked a human being? I haven’t heard the Bais Din condemming these actions, let alone throwing the kids of these people out of school. Also, baal tosef – when you assur something as a geder not to do something else, I think you end up with these kind of people who think they can do anything they want to people that aren’t going acc. to their shita (like their tzinius patrol).
And futhermore, this applies to Lakewood also, what benefit do you gain by not allowing the children to learn in frum schools? Granted some people will feel they are forced to get rid of the net, but others will put their children in not so-frum schools or non-religious schools. What heter do you have to make children less frum or frie? This is exactly what the Tziyonim do!
I don’t believe the gedolim are hipocrites because they are always screaming – try and get as many children into yeshivos from not frum backrounds and yet now they are preventing kids from frum backgrounds from entering Yeshivos. I believe that this so called Bais Din either somehow misrepresented the shailoh to the gedolim or they took what the gedolim said about the net a step further and decided on their own – not to let frum children into Yeshivos.
Ib the past,rabbonim made takkonos to prevent certain things from occurring.,but they did NOT asser everything.We will soon be banned from walking on the street or going shopping in non-chareidi stores because some women and teenagers dress provocatavely. Then there is the telephone and telephone books, You can access any shmutz you want by calling certain phone numbers. The phone books are full of shmutz ads. The billboards on the street have inedecent pictures. THAT IS THE WORLD,TODAY. We are taught to BE RERSPONSIBLE FOR OUR actions.We are not puppets or robots. Let’s go back to the stone age,or live like the Avos did,but in today’s world and see how long we’ll survive.These bans are made by ELITIST scholars and people who have nothing better to do than to run OTHER PEOPLE’S lives;but not their own. How about teaching their kids at home or Yeshiva Students in school how to have MANNERS and how to behave? If you teach them correctly,and BY EXAMPLE,we will prevent many troubles. Just banning everything that the rabbis don’t need and do not understand, will NEVER do any good!
It’s about time….Internet should be banned no matter where you live. Israel USA, no matter.
to 3 “destro613”?!?!? 90% of people don’t live in Beitar. Also you probably never visited there so you can not imagine what their challenges are.
To #5 daasbaalhabayis,
Unfortunately your suggestion has a drawback in it being that it is very possible to go to an improper website by having just one letter off in the address.
I’ve twice been present when very frum people were trying to go to an appropriate website in public and accidentally typed in the address wrong. You shouldn’t have seen how embarrassed they were.
The buddy system has been attempted before and to my knowledge did not have much success.
The best solution is probably JBC’s suggestion of lobbying for government regulations on the internet. This would solve the whole issue (for the most part).
I am surprised that Rav Braverman doesn’t ban anyone with Internet from attending any shul in Betar; cannot be counted as part of a minyan or get an aliyah.
And why not go further? Announce that anyone who llows Internet in their home, he and his family cannot be buried in the local Jewish cemetary.
And to get really serious – forbid anyone to make a shidduch with that family and expell them from the Jewish nation…
Does that sound ridiculous?
Maybe. After all he only wants to ban their innocent children from all Jewish schools.
Will they ban all the kids who ride bikes to school without helmets? Or the parents who put six kids in the back of a car meant for three…. This list could go on and on.
why is physical safety ignored.
You can still get killed Chas vchalila riding a bike without a helmet even if you dont have internet.
Dont do half jobs!!!!!
Organizations like OORAH would loose millions of dollars if they had to shut down thier internet site. Hundreds of people in Lakewood would be out of jobs. Boyzone and girl zone would not be as effective. The OORAH online Auction which brings
hundreds of thousands of dollars for a great tzedaka cause would be finished with if OOrah had no internet access.
Like anything in this world there will always be good and ther will always be bad. We just have to choose and want to do the right thing. Banning everything on earth is ridiculous and it seems that the more farfrumt people try to be the worse the results.
Are there any studies showing that people who have internet are off the derech?
I have personally asked 20 different kids that are off the derech as to why they are off the derech and the reasons behind their frustrations had absolutely nothing to do with the internet.
You would be surprised as to what the answers were but I am not in the position to start advocating things or preaching here because there is no choir.
If Rabanoim really care about our holy neshomas they should have the same outrage towards people that steal in business and about the kashrus industry which in certain ways is in shambles.
These are two topics we NEVER hear one Rav or Gadol talk about. WHY NOT?
(I am not defending or advocating internet just questioning why the focus is alwys about internet and nothing else that DOES CAUSE people to go off the derech.)
I don’t know about you guys, but I have stumbled many times seeing VERY inappropriate things. Although my job requires internet access, I do very much respect these rabbonim and their foresight. Isn’t anyone else willing to stand up and admit their falls?
Everyone chill….He means without filters…
I heard of a case where a girl was interviewed before being accepted to a very famous, reputable seminary in Israel.
The Menahel kept on insisting that the internet was the ‘poisen and biggest stumbling block’ in our generation.
The girl FIRMLY refuted his opinion whilst listing the advantages of internet. The Menahel was so impressed, that in spite of her average grades in school, she was immediatly accepted.
IN MONSEY WE HAVE A SCHOOL YSV THAT MAKES THE STUDENT AND PARENTS SIGN THAT THEY HAVE NO ACCESS TO THE INTERNET AT HOME ,
MOST PARENTS HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT
IF A PARENT WANTS TO EXPOSE THEIR YOUNG CHILDREN TO THE INTERNET
THEY HAVE NO YIRAS SHOMAYIM,
Rav Joseph Breuer Z”tl (the founding Rav of KAJ) said “the problem isn’t the television, the problem is the watcher!” No further comments are necessary.
whats going to be with the gantser slave labour trade here in israel?(also known as “outsourcing”)as bad as it is (taking advantage of the job market here in israel)its many american/european only way to get $5-850 (for working from 4pm-12/1am…) (israeli time)…
To #28-nameless,
Nice dream- if it is true this story would never occur in Beitar or Lakewood. Only their opinion is right, no one elses! So get off the net now -shaygatz.
To Goldenpupik,
You just gave Beitar & Lakewood their next plan of action. And no, I’m not kidding!
NICE DRAM BUT IT WILL NEVER WORK
#28 wote about a girl with average grades who was interviewed before being accepted to a very famous, reputable seminary in Israel…
The story should begin with, “Once upon a time…”, because it doesn’t happen in our times. No “average” girl is even considered for acceptance in any of the “very famous, reputable seminary in Israel”.
I have seen the letter sent by the Rabbonim to the Mosdos. Parents who absolutely need the internet in their home for Parnassa will be exempted from the ban if they fulfil three conditions:
1- A filtered internet provider is used
2- No one other then the parent who needs the internet will have any access to it.
3- The family’s Rav writes a letter confirming his consent to the arrangement for the particular family.
The ban relates specifically to internet in the home, not the use of internet at work. A person who needs unfiltered internet could use this at an office outside his home without violating the conditions of the ban.
I live in Beitar and I use the internet very heavily for my work, which allows me to spend at least half of my day learning Torah. Even with the allowances I have mentioned, this ban, if enforced, will be a major inconvenience for me. I am not in favor of it philosophically and I resent the trouble it will cause me, if it is enforced (a big “if” in my opinion, but we’ll see).
That being said, I think that most people, myself included, can work within the paremeters of the ban without ruining their Parnassa.
I would like to add that I have a lot of respect for people who make big sacrifices of time and convenience to keep their necessary internet use out of their home, even though I am not willing to take that step right now.
#34 “You just gave Beitar & Lakewood their next plan of action. And no, I’m not kidding!”
It’s past midnight. You are awakened by the loud and insistant pounding on your door. Search lights flood you window with light. “Open the door, it’s the Net-Police!”. You, your wife and terrified children are gathered into the kitchen as the Net-Troopers search your house for the contraband. The terrified children are ordered to stop crying. You hear drawers being pulled open, cupboard doors slam shut, as they search for an offending laptop.
They found an installation mannual for a modem -but they missed the false wall in the bedroom. For now, you and your family are safe.
It is such an amazing thing that they did!!
I believe its THE right thing!!
We should definitly mechazek and support them!!
#30 TOMIM:
Didn’t you use the Internet to post your comment? if it is not good for our children then it is not good for our salves!!
Remove the internet from your home and you’ll be sending your children underground.
Is that really what you’d prefer?
One way to prevent boys from going off the derech is to give them SOMETHING TO DO. Charedi boys are forbidden to play any sort of sport – it is considered Greek avoda zara (even in a non formal, non competitive setting). Have you ever watched charedi boys during recess? THey mill around on a small cement square. That’s all. They are not allowed any “down time”. They are either learning, or, uh, learning. Maybe that’s a problem.
#33 who wrote:whats going to be with the gantser slave labour trade here in israel?(also known as “outsourcing”)as bad as it is (taking advantage of the job market here in israel)its many american/european only way to get $5-850 (for working from 4pm-12/1am…) (israeli time)…
I am glad that I am not the only one who thinks this way! (sorry to go off the topic) all these “chesed offices” are using frum women to do their slave labour instead of someone in India.
To #38- Goldepupik,
At least you are able to find humor in this situation and that is because you probably don’t live in a town or community like I do. I probably would have taken on this chumra pushed on me, if not for the fact that the type of community that I live in and others like it have grabbed the toful and left the ikar in Yiddishkeit. This was point that I was making with the Tzinius patrol.
Goldenpupik,
READ THE POST CAREFULLY8!
I said her GRADES in school were average, not the girl herself!
As one who lives in Beitar I can confidently say that so many people writing comments have no idea or understanding of the situation here. Again this is another knee-jerk reaction by Rabbonim prodded on by Askanim who want to maintain their control of the population. The internet can be a dangerous place and this is an issue that needs to be addressed, but many of these major Rabbanim are unfortunately not living in the same world as the rest of us. Most businesses need internet in order to work, or even for home use the internet is used for upgrading programs, many of which are only available online. There has to be a more evenhanded, responsible and effective way of dealing with it. I now many people with internet who are completely normal frum yidden whose yiras shamayim is much better than the so called Taliban zealots, trying to impose their will upon us. It is interesting though those people who are better equipped to deal with the internet are all from chutz la’eretz, with many having some secular education.
I am a researcher and I work from an office at home. It is impractical and very inconvenient me to work away from home. Many of the sites that I visit have no have advertising or shmutz but would be banned because they are run by Universities or by the conservative or reform movements. What will I do, will the Rav support me or find me alternative employment. I recall several times that after having been told off for having internet the very same people when they needed something off the web knew where to come. And when I asked them for the heter to use the internet they were suddenly were struck dumb. I recall one who is a maggid shiur in a yeshiva who wanted to come with his wife to buy a custom shaitel online.
I would like to ask Bentzy18 what planet are you on? Yes there are no shmutzy advertising in Beitar but many people do not dress very modestly, so what’s the difference? Infact it’s even worse that in Brooklyn because here everyone is supposed to be charaidi. Kids here know all the news, all the local politics and although not into sport like the Americans outside my house every rackets and balls.
Because we cannot deal effectively ourselves with major issues like pedophiles, wife, alcohol, drug abuses, teachers in schools having no qualifications, lack of respect for another’s property, poverty lack of education or job skills, etc we settle to deal with peripheral issues. Many times I look at the charadi kids in beitar and their behavior, like that of the adults is a disgrace. It has no connection to Torah. If I was not frum it would turn me off totality to Yisddishkiet. No one here is concerned with hygiene or safety, derech eretz why is that? No one gives cheating, lying or dishonesty in business a second thought, why? Many people here are losing respect for the Rabbanim for constantly coming out with ill though out decrees that nobody listens to. They do not understand that they are undermining their own authority.
There is nothing here for kids to do, my kids are constantly bored, and how many times can you go the same crowded park? Everything is forbidden, so kids who are bored get into mischief. Constantly I see kids breaking and destroying things, but Boruch Hashem they do not kick a ball. Beitar does not even have a swimming pool because it encourages sport and people to go off, so we instead have to go to the chiloni places instead, logical isn’t it? Here there is no way to let off steam or to relax just learn, learn, and learn.
The truth is that most people go off the derech because of the educational system, the rampant poverty and the hypocritical behavior of so many chardi Jews.
youdontknowme, aren’t we held accountable for the action of our children? And I do hold her to a higher standard if she will be a “heartbeat away from the Presidency.” In the US we expect better from our leaders then we do from ourselves, unfortunately in recent years this has not been the case but aren’t the Republicans trying to take us to new standards?
It seems clear that most of the responders on this very frum site have a limit to their degree of acceptance of what the rabbonim pasken. This is in itself very interesting and takes the wind out of the sails of many diatribes against those who disagree with other declarations of the rabbonim. Granted that here and there someone has shown support for this psak, but I haven’t seen one response yet that exclaimed “How DARE anyone speak against the psak of the gedolei hador!!!”. I wouldn’t have expected this from a site which almost axiomatically assumes the gedolim’s absolute authority in the way we live our lives.
So most of us just pick and choose, don’t we?
foanne,
well said.
To 48,
Hashem didn’t make us sheep. We are human. We have a duty to follow what we think is right. That is why we have brains. Unfortunately, most people in our generation don’t or don’t want to think for themselves. They want to come up after 120 years and when asked why did you do this and that, they want to answer I was just listening to so & so. Then they will be told they get the olam haboh of a b’haymoh (animal), because that is the way they lived their lives.
foanne 46
I DONT KNOW IN WHICH BEITAR YOU LIVE IN BUT THE BEITAR ILIT IS TOTALY DIFFERENT THEN WHAT YOU DESCRIBE
I do not know which part of Beitar you are living in. But just to put the record straight. Have you not heard recently of a man indecently exposing himself in front of girls at a bus stop or someone prowling around touching young girls. I have. Did you not heard of a mob that went to a house to beat up someone whom they accused of being a pedophile ? Did you not hear about the acid thrown at a young lady ? I have. Go on any evening to the main park in Givah A or further up the road and see what is happening. Do you never see kids needlessly vandalizing public property ? Did you no hear a few months a go about several residents arrested for serious money laundering or getting busted for doing and supplying drugs.
There are a lot fine bnai Torah and fine mosdos and organizations here, and compared to other places the quality of life is better but it is because of the attitude of people like you that nothing gets done about serious issues. Pull your head out of the sand. Ignoring or denying a problem does not make it disappear
To Health, # 50,
I agree with you 100% . My comments were tongue in cheek, sorry if that didn’t come through in my choice of words.
Foanne 46 and 52 – I registered just to be able to respond to you.
How sad that you live in such a wonderful city and all you can do is malign it. I also live in Beitar and while I’m certainly not blind to any of the things you mentioned I see so many other things as well. I see scores of people with sterling middos who are constantly striving and growing. I see excellent schools with teachers that put their kishkes into educating our children. I see people happy to live with less in a city where there is no pressure to live up to the Schwartzs. I see warm communities, and wonderful shuls, and dedicated rabbonim.
Are there problems? Of course – just like there are problems in any city on earth. Are there sick, criminal people in the city? Of course – just like in any town on the planet. Are there a some misguided zealots? Yes, there are, but they are greatly outnumbered by the hundreds of people trying to serve their Creator in the best way possible.
If you are so unable to see the beauty in the city why do you live here? Raising your children in a city you despise can only be bad for both them and you.
In response to thinkingmom I chuckle as I read your words. You obviously have neither bothered to read carefully what I wrote. I do not despise Beitar at all, quite the contrary I am very happy here. We have fine kehillas and good schools and services. There are a lot of exceptional people here who are really true ovdai Hashem.
However what I do feel, and say this with a degree of certainty is that there are problems that unfortunately the numbers are growing rapidly that we just do not deal with or that we deal with in a reactionary way. This just creates more problems. Instead of trying to be rational and realistic we play the zealot card. Just ask people their true feelings about the situation here and you will see that certain haskofos no only on a local, but also national and international level need to change.