Opposition leader Yair Lapid wants charedim drafted into the army, and he wants it now. Addressing Netanyahu’s coalition, he urged members to oppose the recently unveiled military service bill unless there is “equality of the burden,” meaning that charedim are drafted, too.
“We need a lot more soldiers. [The army] is too small,” Lapid declared, lobbing an accusation at Netanyahu that he is raising economic incentives for charedim so that they won’t feel compelled to join the IDF.
“We will oppose this law with all of our strength,” Lapid said, urging his “ultra-Orthodox brothers” to enlist and pushing back against chareidi politicians who say efforts to enlist yeshiva bochurim comes from hatred of them and the Torah.
“We are not the same people that we were before. This is something larger than everyone. And we need to acknowledge the fact that we cannot go on the way it used to be because the challenges we have are different, the army we need is different, therefore we need to draft the charedim. This is the number one priority now.”
(YWN World Headquarters – NYC)
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38 Responses
Start drafting the Arabs they receive all the benefits even more than the chareidim why are they not being drafted in the army? Stop being busy with the small number of yeshiva boys that are exempt. Only the learning of the Torah protects Israel from their enemies your armies your ammunition your technology is worthless without the protection of those who learn the Torah.
YWN – you chose to cite only your favorite Boogeyman, Yair Lapid, as the source of this view, when in fact, this need is now wilely acknowledged by almost all in Israel. The current war made it clear that the general Chareidi claim that “the army has enough people and doesn’t really need Chareidim – they’re only going after us because they hate Torah” is blatantly false. The army just announced the extension of basic service from 32 to 36 months; the increase in days in Miluim days per year from 25 to 40; and the increase in age until which one is subject to Miluim from 45 to up to 51 – all due to manpower issues.
It is because of the Chareidi community’s refusal to send their son’s that my sons must leave their Gemaras behind in the Hesder Yeshivos for ever longer times. Congratulations – you’ve proven how little you care – really care – about any part of Klal Yisrael outside your own daled amos.
“Ulifi shhotzi atzmo min hklal, kafar b’ikar”. “Shalom alai nafshi, ki b’shrirus libi eileich”.
And finally – “Osim ma’asei Zimri, u’mvakshim secharo shel Pinchas”
Chazal said “Kabel es ha’emes Mimi sheomro” – accept the truth from whatever source – even one you don’t like. YWN should not use tactics like deliberately sourcing a story to a source it knows will cause the idea to be rejected because of who said it. That is dishonest journalism, and we all know that “chosomo shel HKB”H emes”.
an Israeli Yid
Lapid, they are in the Army, these incredible soldiers are dying as well with the secular, what is wrong with you , that something that could fall on your head and not improve…..get out of Israel or shut up….you are a design of evil…..may you R O T
He echoes the words of Moshe Rabeinu הַאַחֵיכֶם יָבֹאוּ לַמִּלְחָמָה וְאַתֶּם תֵּשְׁבוּ פֹה. Whatever you think of the medina, kosher or treif, maintaining an effective army protects the lives of its people, including every shomer torah umitzvose. People who go to frei doctors to save their lives, instead of relying on tefilah and mitzvose, emunah, and Torah learning alone, cannot then claim that their tefilah and mitzvose, emunah, and Torah learning alone is enough to protect us from our enemies. Be like bnei gad and bnei reuven and say, “וַאֲנַ֜חְנוּ נֵחָלֵ֣ץ חֻשִׁ֗ים לִפְנֵי֙ בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל עַ֛ד אֲשֶׁ֥ר אִם־הֲבִֽיאֹנֻ֖ם אֶל־מְקוֹמָ֑ם” and “לֹ֥א נָשׁ֖וּב אֶל־בָּתֵּ֑ינוּ עַ֗ד הִתְנַחֵל֙ בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אִ֖ישׁ נַחֲלָתֽוֹ”. Eventually, they still ended up living in עבר הירדן, but while they were needed, they knew where to be.
Once a fool ,always a fool !!!He still doesn’t get it … The Holy One is in charge
100% right – we cannot go on way it used to be…” All כחי ועוצם ידי is in the BIN – the IDF is totally powerless – get 100m soldiers, it will NOT help you without the help of HASHEM – the ONLY reason things are not much worse choliloh is in the זכות of the Torah!
Shomrei Shabbos and fully packed Yeshivos were saved on Simchas Torah.
Good morning it takes you guys too long to post an approve a comment by the time you approve and post the comment there is already new news
Priority number 1, is to get anti religious villians like Lapid OUT of the army.
We need an army that is NOT anti religious, that provides the religious with what they need and that is kashrut, davening, shabbos, etc and NOT have rotten antisemites lefties as their commanders.
Make sure that they sit in yeshiva and learn.
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2258919/relative-of-hamas-leader-hanieyeh-is-being-treated-at-israeli-hospital.html
Number one priority? Really???
“ This is something larger than everyone”
He’s right. That’s why we need more Torah.
#dumbman
What portion of today’s learners is draft avoiders? My guess is less than 5 percent.
Lapid is not wrong!
Shocking to see that after the last 4 months, there are still people on this forum who attack every logical person who makes a comment about the IDF and Chareidim. Enough with this extremists mentality. Enough.
In the 67 war, every Yeshiva Bochur was given weapons to go out and fight the enemy. Every Yeshiva Bochur!
Today the Matzav is very serious and the army needs all our men to serve למען השם.
Unfortunately, with the Golus we are in, we don’t have the luxury of sitting on the sidelines.
Time to stop with the foolishness and stop speaking נארישקייט. Especially when its a major Chilul Hashem.
Time to unite in Torah, Tefila and Tzedaka and join our brothers in the IDF, in any way we possibly can.
btw, Yair Lapid himself did not serve in the army
And to all those attacking the charedim for not serving in the army – there is a reason, which is too complex to explain here.
But its not because they are lazy. All the chessed orgs, including hatzala and zaka, are charedi jews….
@lazerc – you are aware that the army is Kosher, provides time for davening, and follows Hilchos Shabbos, right? Note that there are specific ways that certain Halachos are applied in the context of an army, especially in wartime. For example, Pikuach Nefesh is something that allows an army to patrol – including in vehicles – and use communications devices even on Shabbos and even not during wartime. Also, the amount of time one has for Davening may be curtailed or even eliminated during an active war, though an attempt is generally made to allow for a minimum amount of time to put on Tefilin/say part of Davening.
an Israeli Yid
The hatred of שומר תורה ומצוות knows no bounds.
M,
It’s a shame you can only pick and choose certain things. The rest of it is that not everyone went to war, not everyone was drafted or whatever you want to call it back then. It was only a certain amount of people and the others had what to do INCLUDING SITTING AND LEARNING SO THAT IT SHOULD MAKE UP FOR THE ONES WHO WERE FIGHTING ACTIVELY AND NOT LEARNING TORAH!
I guess the price for עם הארצות was free so you took a double portion.
My dear dati leumi brothers, please don’t fall for this balatant electioneering from Lapid, who refused to join a unity government after Oct 7, and who through proteksia did his army “service” by editing army magazine and didn’t even complete basic training.
I know your mesora is that milchemes mitzva applies today, however none of our gedolim ever sanctioned that view, neither recently nor in the previous generation (who would have doubled down on that view further had they seen how ultra-secular the government and supreme court have become today). and you know that if bochurim were drafted they would simply go to jail.
We cannot imagine what terrible anxiety and nerved parents of children in the IDF are going through and it is true mesiras nefesh that can’t easily be compared, but please don’t channel this imbalance with turning on the yeshiva world, the delicate status quo held since the founding of the state, and give succour to this argument which will only allow the miltant secularists to gain power at Torah’s expense.
moshekapoya
how is it a chillull ahshem and how is it naarishkeit if practically every gadol biyisroel holds that a boy holding by learning should not go even near the idf
is your opinion more valuable than those of our leaders.
lapid is a rasha and his agenda is absolutely hate of hashem torah and yahadus
To all who reccomend drafting yeshiva bochurim into the IDF, I suggest arranging a meeting the Gedolei Harabbonim and present your side of the story. If you succeed in persuading them to accept your POV, that will be the end of the discussion. All 27,000 “younger” yeshiva students will flock to the recruitment centers. Presumably, anyone older than 27-28 years old will be exempt from active army service, as the IDF isn’t too interested in this age group.
If you are unwilling to do this, instead expecting the community of .yeshiva bochurim to ignore their Roshei Yeshiva and the Gedolei Hador, well, you can keep on hoping. It’s not going to happen. For such a serious change to happen, it would only be with the acquiesce and guidance of the Roshei Hayeshivos and the Gedolei Hador. It’s utterly ludicrous to believe that any other scenario is possible.
the leopard never changes his spots….same old lapid
Really!?
I couldn’t of thought of a stupider article to write about…
Hashem is in charge and it won’t make a difference what anyone wants.
what da heck is wrong with lapid tifrach yeshiva on simchas torah which is in the south of Israel didn’t get touched right near there chilonim got killed
we need koach hatorah
lapid should burn in hell
fast
To all the smug, self-righteous posters above who believe that their sons’ Torah learning is more important than my sons’, and that the Rambam’s explanation of what is a Milchemes Mitzvah – repeated by the Shulchan Aruch as Halacha l’Ma’aseh – somehow doesn’t apply today – you have your leaders to follow. Just don’t call them “THE Gedolim” – they are, perhaps YOUR Gedolim, but most definitely not mine. As such, I b’li neder plan on no longer providing ANY support for the institutions they need or those who follow in their “derech”. I hope the Israeli government also takes a close look at where it sends taxpayer funds – and decides that supporting such krumkeit is no longer feasible. But don’t worry about it – I’ll continue to Daven for you, so I’m sure HKB”H will find some other way for you to get funding.
What a bunch of hypocritical, self-centered people. “Sure, YOU pull your sons out of Yeshiva and send them to put their lives on the line to defend Klal Yisrael. I’m doing my part by buying extra kugel and Thursday night Cholent for my sons so that they can shteig away with extra hislahavus.”
an Israeli Yid
@anIsraeliYid
Your accusations are unfounded.
Number one, you are correct about “kivan shehotzi atzmo min haklal”. But ask yourself who is following in the “derech yisroel sabba” and who were “motzei azmam”.
Ask yourself who stay true to derech avoseinu, and who are wading into “mayim ra’im” and being “scheinei resha’m”.
No one here is asking you to put your life at risk for their sake.
Thats you who decided to do that.
The “chareidim had quite a different pathway before the “medina” started, and now the medina is asking the chareidim to lend their lives for a problem the chareidim never asked for!?
Aderabeh, it is YOU who are thinking only of yourself.
In regards to your sons learning. No one is saying whos learning is better. But is is your son that doesnt value his learning as much as the chareidim do, that he is willing to step away, not the chareidim who are devaluing his learning.
Besides, In every milchemes mitzva it states clearly that there were actual combatants, and “k’negdam” there were an equal amount of Talmidei chachamim who were designated to learn, AS PART OF THE SOLDIERS CALLED UP! (rashi explains that this is why the pasuk repeats “eleph lamateh”). So if you your rational is to have a milchama as perscribed by the Torah… WHAT IS YOUR COMPLAINT EXACTLY??!!!
Sincerely, a brother.
Nebach! Ein Torah, ein klum!
It really stinks that the country needs almost all young men to spend some of the best years of their lives training and fighting so that the country as a whole can live safely. In times of peace, some yeshiva bochrim can choose to learn instead, nicha. But in a time like this the halacha is clear, הכל יוצאין אפילו חתן מחדרו וכלה מחופתה. Baruch Hashem many of this country’s great soldiers are also talmidei chachamim, lamdanim, rabbanim, and morei hora’ah — they all bring great כבוד to the army, to the country, and to its people. To those who discourage their children from fighting, even in a שעת סכנה we haven’t seen in many decades, understand that many people are disappointed, resentful, and angry. Don’t be surprised if after the next elections they decide they’ve had enough and legislate accordingly.
So much to reply to here, but I’ll stick to one point.
M, the only reason we go to doctors is because Hashem explicitly told us to. Otherwise it would be forbidden. The same Hashem Who told us that when we’re ill we should consult doctors, also told us that it is forbidden to draft talmidei chachomim, and that Torah learning is more important for a mililtary victory than the actual fighting.
The IDF has many soldiers who do not carry a weapon or go into battle, but sit in an air conditioned office, on a comfortable chair, and work on computers just like a regular job. And their service is at least as important as that of the front-line combat soldiers. So how can it be difficult for you to accept what the Torah tells us, that the same is true of those who spend all day in a beis medrash, neither battling nor batteling, but genuinely learning Torah?
Now in my opinion the yeshivos should operate as IDF units. The bochurim should learn in IDF uniforms and under IDF discipline. Being late to seder should be the same as being late for roll-call in the army. And it should be recognized for all purposes as army service, so that when they eventually go into the workforce they should be entitled to the same jobs as those who served as computer programmers or potato-peelers.
Their shmad agenda never worked and never will work
One day they will wake up and see out the window that their state is no more
אכיה”ר
anIsraeliYid. I’m pretty sure everyone is saying that our gedolim would say your son should also say in yeshiva, and you should buy him cholent if it helps him shteig.
So it’s not self-righteous but simply righteous. The other names you apply are not befitting a discourse amongst frum yidden, let’s lower the invective.
Out of interest, in the Hesder view that milchemes mitzvah applies, why aren’t you volunteering for the army right now? The Rambam doesn’t talk about serving only for reserve duty surely. And in fact, even you’d live abroad according to this view you should have to fly over and serve.
@anIsraeliYid, are your initials NS?
I have heard several Rabbanim say this war is a milchama mitzva. Aren’t all men between 20-60 supposed to serve?
Hashem protects when there is tznius. The women shouldn’t be on army bases.
Mommy10. the vast majority of rabbonim don’t agree it’s a minority hesder view and with all due respect argues with the Chazon Ish, R Moshe Feinstein and just every world-recognised posek with the possible sole exception of the Tzitz Eliezer and even he supports the view that’s it’s issur to draft yeshiva bochurim.
@chash – my accusations are absolutely founded. There have always been principles of “Kol Yisrael areivim zeh l’zeh” – and those who refuse to take action on behalf of their fellow Jews are the ones who are not following in the “Derech Yisrael Sabba”. Your comments about what the Chareidim wanted before HKB”H in his kindness allowed Am Yisrael to once again obtain sovereignty in Eretz Yisrael is debatable at best, but in any case is irrelevant to the situation at hand. The situation now is that there are all types of Jews whose lives are at risk – including Chareidim – and there is a need for all – once again, including Chareidim – to take on the burden of protecting Am Yisrael.
As to the chashivus my sons put on their learning – they most certainly are machshiv their learning, but they also actually finished the sentence “Lishmo’a, limod u’lilamed, LISHMOR V’LA’ASOS” – they realized that they have obligations to carry out their learning (including on subjects like Milchemes Mitzvah), and can not only sit in the Beis Medrash. They have an obligation to Klal Yisrael, and not only to improve their own ruchnius.
As to people learning l’zchus those who were actually fighting – that’s a drash, not actual Halacha as brought by the Rambam and Shulchan Aruch, and in any case, even according to the Medrash, there’s no reason to think that the ones who were told to learn were ones who would have otherwise been fighting. It is equally likely that the ones who would have been learning are the ones who were too old or too young to fight, or were otherwise physically unable to participate. If you want to arrange to have those groups be the ones learning for the zechus of the soldiers at the front, tavo alecha beracha.
@Milhouse – and we go to war because HKB”H told us the rules of when we do so – by defining a Milchemes Mitzvah is, where “afilu choson meichadro v’kalah meichupasa yotze’in”. Training to be able to carry out this Mitzvah when it’s (unfortunately) necessary is at least a hechsher mitzvah, if not part of the mitzvah itself. And your point about those who have non-front line positions is true – there is a need for those positions, but those who serve in them are generally either those who are not able to serve in front line positions, or who have a special knowledge/skill that makes them more valuable in that non-front line position. This determination is made when one is drafted – and if you wanted to say that the army should send especially talented Lomdei Torah to the Beis Medrash instead of the army base, I have no issue with that. I do have an issue, though, with a blanket exemption for any individual in the Chareidi community who wants it, as is the case today.
@coffeeroomguy – I guess you think Hashgacha Pratis ended in 1948, if you think the State of Israel is a Ma’aseh Satan.
@Ash – I question the infallibility attributed by Chareidim to their Gedoilim (which those Gedolim themselves to not assume for themselves), as well as the attitude that THEIR Gedoilim are the only Gedolim – and that there’s no other potentially valid view. What happened to “shivim panim l’Torah?
As to my serving in the army in this war – I tried to volunteer, and they sent me home due to my age and the fact that while I was drafted when I made Aliya, I never went through full basic training. I then tried to volunteer with other government entities where my skills would be useful, but they had enough people already – they said that instead, I should continue to focus on my day job so as to keep the Israeli economy moving as much as possible – so that’s what I’ve been doing. My employees and clients count on me to provide necessary services, and I’m proud to say that all of my clients (including those in Chu”l) stuck with us since we showed that we could still meet their needs (even with a significant number of my people on miluim).
@Marzipan – no, they’re aIY – can’t you tell? 😉 Seriously, though – no, I’m not Rabbi Dr. NS.
@Mommy10 – as an FYI, in a Milchemes Mitzvah, there’s no age limit, and in fact, there are those both above and below the ages you cite who are serving. With respect to your comment on Tznius – that is definitely an important inyan and should not be denigrated – but it is not the only inyan, and is not the one given as the cause of Am Yisrael going into Galus from either Bayis Rishon or Bayis Sheini – while Sinas Chinam and a lack of unity in Klal Yisrael is. There is no question that the issue of tznius should be addressed, though, and opening a dialogue on the topic as it relates to impeding Chareidi willingness to serve is completely legitimate. The question, though, is if this is a real reason for Chareidim not serving, or is it merely an excuse – such that once it is addressed, there’ll be yet another reason why they can’t serve. Given past history, there’s a significant suspicion amongst the general Israeli population that this is an excuse – and the refusal of the Chareidi leadership to engage in any meaningful way doesn’t help things.
One final note, this one for the YWN mods – I want to both complement and thank you for allowing my posts, which represent a line of thinking not widespread in the Yeshivish/Chareidi community, to appear in the discussion forum. I’ve tried (though perhaps not always succeeded, for which I apologize) to keep it civil and respectful, and to show how my views are based on positions of Rishonim, Achronim, and other authoritative parts of our Mesorah – I am not, C’V, trying to undermine classical Judaism. The question is how these sources should be applied in the current situation – and not the nitzchiyus of Torah and the Mesorah.
“Oseh shalom bimromav, hu ya’aseh shalom aleinu” – may we all be zoche to Shalom and better times, with the final Geulah Sheleima.
an Israeli Yid
@anIsraeliYid I have no idea what supposed “infallibility” has to do with anything. It’s a simple statement of fact the most gedolim, even when you include those recognised by the dati leumi, do not agree that it’s milchemes mitzvah. And halacha is decided by majority, or gadlus and on both counts it’s clear that there is no milchemes mitzvah “afilu choson mechedro v’kalah mechupasa”.
I’m curious where you believe the Shulchan Oruch paskens like you say (although gedolim as stated clearly disagree)? And in bringing whatever diyuk you have, please acknowledge some the many established mekoros in Shulchan Oruch that say milchemes mitzvah does not apply nowadays, and if it would, not to yeshiva bochurim.
Finally, why are you not protesting as vehemently that all Jews in chul should be joining the army according to your own view? What does citizenship have to do with it even according to your view of halacha?
May your sons and all their comrades stay safe and complete bguf ubnefesh
@an Israeli Yid
Your response again misses the point that learning is a INTEGRAL part of any milchama.
you say your son is focused on “laasos” which IS the ikkar, but the point remains that learning is a part of the milchama, and therefore is considered “la’asos” as well.
As to your claim that learning was “left to elderly” or others incapable of fighting, that is quite a bold assumption and one that is easily dismissed.
The point is, you are stuck in the concept of “kochi v’otzem yadi asa es hachayil hazeh”.
But you are forgetting that HU natan es hakoach laasos chayil.
The issue where you are getting stuck is simple
You have a true claim, that if soldiers are needed to fight, derech hishtadlus is to supply people to fight them, and Halacha requires such.
Yet, your contention is not that there arent people to do the fighting, but that its a burden that isnt shared.
You want people to walk away from their gemara to “share the burden” of the war effort.
And thats where you are going wrong.
That is the “pesach chatas roveitz” of your misguided ideas that are ultimately leading you on a path of hisnagdus to the manhigim of klal yisroel (motzei atzmo min haklal).
The mistake is that it is better for those who can fight, to serve longer terms as soldiers, than to take those who can learn and have them become fighters.
And while each person must know himself and what their tchunas nefesh is, (not everyone is yissachar), there are those whos tafkid IS to be the learners.
And the desire to pull them from their role doesnt come from halachic adherence, as im sure you know of lapid, but rather, from a denigration of the importance of Torah.
Hatzlacha bibracha.