16 Responses

1. Not true!

   The founder of Degel HaTorah, Maran Horav Schach Ztz”l expressed his views clearly MANY TIMES and in PUBLIC , saying to give back land to the Arabs. We were 2000 years without שטחים we can continue without it, The main thing is Torah (not Shtochim)

2. At the “moment of truth”, degel stood by silently in ariel sharons government, allowing the destruction of Jewish communities in gaza, all in order to get money for their mosdos. And this was against explicit instructions from rav Elyashiv.
   So degel continues to lie, and use Torah as a cheap tool to dig with.

3. Who else does Chabad conceivably have to cast their votes for? Avigdor Lieberman?!

4. Ayelet Shaked of Yamina party promised to strictly follow the Chabad Rebbe’s approach about shtochim: not one inch.

   This creates a conflict: Should Chabad vote for the frumest party (Degel HaTorah) that goes against Chabad principles on shtochim (pikuach nefesh), or should Chabad vote for a mostly Chardal party led by a secular woman that respects Chabad principles?

   I saw that Chabad philanthropist Joseph Gutnick, a former supporter of Bibi and Likud has now endorsed Ayelet Shaket.

   Degel HaTorah has been thumbing their noses at Chabad and ignoring the requests of their Rebbe for decades (on LAnd for Peace, Mi Hu Yehudi etc). Now that they need Chabad support, do they really think they can re-write history?! Chabad are not like Shas. Shas was willing for a brief time to negotiate with Degel (before realizing that Degel cannot be trusted).

5. Joe,

   Yemina

   http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/1780936/ayelet-shaked-says-her-party-will-act-according-to-the-lubavitcher-rebbes-conditions.html

6. In principle, Degel HaTorah always supported land for peace.

   In practice, they always opposed it because no Arab party was actually offering peace for land.

7. Joseph, Chabad should vote for Ayelet Shaked’s Yamina party, as she promised to follow their Rebbe’s directives about Shleimut HaAretz.

8. Shetach for peace was a known policy of Rav Shach ztvkl as far as I remember. It may however be that it didnt actually happen under the agreement of Degel due to different timings. So they may not be lying.

9. Only if Avigdor Lieberman becomes a Messianic Jew.

10. Ignoring the Sina of the last comment, why would Chabad ever vote for the party of Shach when they could votw for the party of Shliemus Haaretz??

11. This is actually brilliant!
    Now when Degel HaTorah loses the election, they can put the blame on Chabad.

    On the other hand, if Chabad refuses to support Degel for old sins or grievances, it is outright “nekama” (When I need a favor, I always go to my worst enemy, because the enemy cannot refuse without being oiver on nekama! It is a win-win situation, either I get my favor done, or my enemy burns in gehenim for turning me down!).

    I for one am very uncomfortable that the representatives of Olam HaTorah must come grovelling to Chabad for support.
    What happened to our “gaon yaakov” (self pride)?!

12. etzhar – “Shetach for peace was a known policy of Rav Shach ztvkl as far as I remember. It may however be that it didnt actually happen under the agreement of Degel due to different timings. So they may not be lying.”

    It may be it didn’t happen?! We you sleeping during Camp David? Return of Sinai? Oslo? West Bank? Gaza? The Gush? Chevron? Lebanon? It happened, and happened MANY times! And it happened with the approval of “shetach for peace” policy.

13. It may be it didn’t happen?! We you sleeping during Camp David? Return of Sinai? Oslo? West Bank? Gaza? The Gush? Chevron? Lebanon? It happened, and happened MANY times! And it happened with the approval of “shetach for peace” policy.

    Degel HaTorah didn’t exist in the days of Camp David and Return of Sinai (Agudah voted for it)

    Degel HaTorah voted against Oslo and abstained by Gaza/Gush Katif.

    There was no vote on the withdrawal from Lebanon and no one claimed it was being done for the sake of land for peace. Rather Israeli soldiers were being killed on a weekly and monthly basis and Hezbollah was gaining in strength anyway. It therefore no longer made sense to remain there.

14. smerel, indeed”degel hatorah” is a more recent creation, but are you playing semantic games of deception? The same leadership existed!

    Rav Shach had the same shitah before the creation of Degel, and he was vocal about it, saying that one must give back land if it will save lives.

    The Chabad Rebbe was diametrically opposed to this shitah of giving back land for an empty promise of peace while endangering the country.

    With hindsight vision, we see the tragic results of returning Gaza, Gush Katif etc. The true Chochom was ho’eh ess hanolod.

15. The name changes but they are all the same. Chazal said the yetzer hora, satan and malach hamoves are all one and the same, just different names. Same can be said of of Degel Hatorah, Yahadut Hatorah, formally Agudah etc.

16. “as per the instructions of the Rebbe ZT”L.”
    Actually, no. The Rebbe never said to vote for Degel – in fact he said explicitly (in a Sicha delivered in 5748, which is printed in Toras Menachem, as well as in Sefer HaSichos) to vote for Aguda and NOT for degel. not long after the Rebbe delivered this Sicha, Lubavitchers kicked up quite a storm in Israel, putting signs all over Israel saying to vote for Aguda etc. It seems that ever since then, Rav Shach was hostile toward the Rebbe and Chabad…..