A young Kallah playing the drums at her wedding for a few minutes landed the wedding hall and the band in trouble, after the Badatz Eida Chareidis complained that her performance was not Tznius.
The couple, Itzik Rusk and Shira Hershkovitz, were married earlier this month at the Wagshal Hall in Bnei Brak. The well-known Yoeli Dickman orchestra played at the wedding.
The 19-year-old Kallah approached the band towards the end of the event and asked to be seated at the drums. The kallah then surprised everyone, to put it mildly, when she began drumming while the rest of the band continued to play.
The audience was impressed with Hershkovitz’s short performance, and video of “the drumming bride” went viral on social media.
But the Badatz Eida Chareidis, which gives the Kashrus certification to the hall, was less than enthusiastic. According to Bechadrei Charedim, the Kashrus supervisors called the hall’s management, asking where the Mashgiach was and “why they did not turn off the electricity in the hall as soon as the bride began to play.”
The Rabbonim demanded that the orchestra publish a public apology. An apology printed on official Badatz Eida Chareidis stationery, reads: “We, the Dickman Orchestra, are sorry about what happened last week, and the terrible breach in Tznius at the Wagshal Hall, and we commit it will not occur again in the future, and we will be diligent to maintain Tznius.”
“אנו תזמורת דיקמן מצטערים על מה שקרה בשבוע שעבר, מעשה אשר לא ייעשה, בפרצה נוראה בגדרי הצניעות באולמי וגשל בני ברק, ומתחייבים שמהיום לא יקרה דבר כזה, ונתאמץ לשמור על גדרי הצניעות”.
The letter further said that “if Chalilah it happens again, we accept that a prohibition on the band appearing at Simchos should be made known and publicized.”
As a result of the incident, the Eida sent a clear message to all halls and those performing at Eida-certified events, that the Kashrus certification does not only relate to the food being served, but also demands maintaining modesty standards.
(YWN Israel Desk – Jerusalem)
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87 Responses
Miriam Haneviah played the drum after kriyas yam suf. And the Torah makes a point of telling us that she did. So what’s the big deal?
From Yom Kippur to Tisha Bav in a few hours. This is how fast a person can fall.
So halacha says women can’t sing in public, but where does it say they can’t play instruments in public?
Regardless of your opinion on the matter, what kind of “yeshivaworld” people would publish pictures of an event that the eida chareidis said was a breach of tznius. Are you now the anti rabbi website. Whatever your psak is for your own weddings if it is okay for the kallah to play drums, to publish this with the pictures is outrageous.
They should be upset
I think they reacted ineffectively. It would have been better to hire a hooded spokesperson with north American accented English to read the letter on a video, and edit in scenes from the wedding video with the kallah wearing an orange jumpsuit. There’s a template to follow out there on the internet for these kind of people.
Hashem yerachem, this is what it’s come to in that world. Wow. Miriam herself would be censored. Drums. In public. Gevaaaaaaald. Gevaaaaaaald. Dovid hamelech, ein mah ledaber – he wouldn’t get an Aliyah in a badatz shul.
This is not ok …… but to put a leash on a kallah and parade her around amongst hundreds of oogling men at a Mitzah tantz is 100% ok since it is our “mesorah”
Why are they not worried about tznius by mitzvah tantz? Just another way that’s mesameach choson and kallah , so why concern here any more? Just trying to understand the concern?
that is pretty bad, weddings have little connection to judaism anymore, the loud music is the start of the problem, creates wildness
Who can blame them? It’s their hall, their caterer, etc. There are minimum standards spelled out visavis tznuis and the Chosson kalla crossed the line.
I wouldn’t get so outraged at her. The men have allowed weddings to become circuses and she is being affected by the environment the men and have created. The loud music is the first problem.
These guys are going crazier than the liberals. If it’s tznius to see her under the chuppah an hour before why is it not tznius to see her playing the drums? It’s not kol isha.
Also wouldn’t it be unsafe for the mashgiach to cut the power to a large gathering of people? If everyone is dancing and suddenly it goes pitch dark a lot of people could get injured.
Additionally, what on earth does this have to do with the kashrus of the food???
And the frummers sit there scratching their hears wondering why the chilonim don’t respect them
While I understand the breach of tznius, the Edah can hardly play the part of the outraged hechsher any longer. The Edah has relaxed a number of it’s policies in the past few years, such as giving a hechsher to shechita outside of Israel, only giving a hechsher to eateries in Charedi areas and demanding that the heimish eateries and pizza/falafel shops put up their chairs and close at a certain time to prevent hang outs/mixed crowds. Today the Edah is giving their hechsher to at least one Jerusalem restaurant which is obviously a room full of mixed seating, including non charedim and not religious so there are certainly immodestly clad guests. They’re also giving to a few hotels that while are mainly religious clientele, not all the guests are dressed to the chardi standards of tzniyus. Is a modestly dressed kallah drumming before men for a few minutes worse than men seated near/opposite immodestly dressed woman for a few hours?
Yes, it most certainly was a breach in Tzenius,
What I don’t understand is, where does the BAAL MACHSHIR come into the picture? & how far do the powers of a BAAL MACHSHIR go?
Say if they don’t like the style of the tables and chairs, or the flooring in the hall would they have a say in the matter?
Why is it so immodest? She was not dancing or singing. It’s true by playing the drums, she’s drawing attention to herself? But she’s the Kallah, she already has our attention. Is there a prohibition, against women playing musical instruments, that I’m unaware of?
Did anyone ask the kalla if she wanted her photo spread the world over? Did your rabbinical advisory board say it’s OK?
Ah the Eida, with nothing to do all day but count their earnings, they come up with new and ludicrous ways of codifing tznius.
The Rabbonim demanded that the orchestra publish a public apology The Badatz owes an apology to the Kallah and her family, because she breached nothing, as there was no Kol Isha. Musical instruments are NOT Kol Isha.
You published the names of the chasan, kalah, hall, and band? Really? How about getting Rabbi Hoffman to write a “halachic Overview” about this NOW? Quoting a father writing generalizations (saw no names of schools, rabbis, or girls, etc) got your typewriter working overtime – but this is OK? Where are you, in Mars? Either stick to Halacha or you’ll be added to the list with the ‘other’ blogs.
This can not be allowed. Next there will be mixed dancing.
What an awesome Kalla! Too bad she gets stifled by the hechsher….I fully support women playing drums and I think it is really cool that she had the skills to play the drums! Beautiful!
Her new husband is the luckiest young man in Israel!
I agree. No matter how primitive this sounds. It is definitely not tznius. Ywn should not post this story either. Pure loshon hora! Especially with the names.
Do you thing publishing a close screenshot of the Kallah in a tight fitting gown with chest protruding is appropriate? I don’t.
Many people will ridicule the Badatz Eida Chareidis and insist that the BEC should stick to giving kashrus supervision. But this is a perfect example of what a great public service they provide. If you let a kallah play the drums at her wedding, who knows what’s next.
Several things wrong here. 1. Just a few weeks ago at a Chassidish wedding I asked questions as to how it’s considered tznius for an a male (not the chusson or close male relative) to be dancing in front of the kallah, even if not touching. I also asked how it was considered tznious for the kallah to be the only female in the large room, surrounded by all men. I understand that’s how it’s probably done in those circles, thus that is why I asked in the form of questions and not accusations. I’m sill waiting for other commenters to give appropriate and respectful thoughts on that; it’s welcomed. 2. Regarding the wedding in this particular article above- what is the Rabbinic of Bibilical source of where this is assur? We all agree Kol Isha is without a doubt a problem, but a musical instrument? 3. The Dickman Orchestra is a business just like catering, dentistry, and computer sales are businesses. They were hired and paid to deliver a service with the understanding that some families might be more Chareidy or more Modern (within halachic ramifications); if there is something a business doesn’t feel comfortable engaging in, it’s appropriate to mention it before and wise to indicate it in the contract. I understand there are some frum bands comfortable with mixed dancing and some aren’t- but it’s professional to mention it before signing a contract and accepting payment. For this band to leave a statement indirectly relating or blaming the tzenuah of a new kallah is disgraceful, nasty, and insulting. Same with the hall and kashurus.
Concluding, if a policy is set in place in advance, and is expressed verbally and on paper before signing a contract, then that is certainly a liberty. You don’t blame the tznuah of a very obvious simcha, directing itself towards a newlywed couple. Doing all this after the fact (with some of the nasty statements said) is a mess. I personally wouldn’t consider patronizing those businesses anymore, especially the band.
It’s a real shame that The Yeshiva World is publishing this story so soon after purim katan, how will you be able to have a proper purim gadol after this?
it’s a matter of sensitivity. those who want to understand will understand and those who don’t want to can find a million excuses. as far as halacha goes ask your own rav.
Can anyone here, in a coherent and non-ranting method, explain what element of tznius was violated?
The following answers will not be accepted…
…It just is…
…If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand…
And any other responses that avoid an actual answer.
I am curious to know if someone has the sif in Shulchan Oruch that bans woman from playing an instrument, especially one that is not a wind instrument, which some may construe as her voice. Was Miriam Hanavia admonished for playing her instruments at Kriyas Yam Suf?
****IDIOT ALERTS****
All those claiming lashon hara (as usual) should be aware that the chosson and kallah gave media interviews.
People, people, calm down, The Rabbanim decided that this act lacks tznius, who are we to attack the Rabbanim. Show some respect for those greater Torah. Comparing this situation to Miriam and the tupim is ridiculous and just proves how little we know, Miriam led the women separately from the men, This young girl meant well but doesn’t know any better, the band should have – hence the need to make clear that this wont happen again. At least not in a Chareidi venue. Personally I have seen the video and agree that the act lacks tznius and wouldnt want my husband watching her. You are free to disagree. When you give Kashrut and answer Shaylos, your opinions will be respected as well. IMHO If she had asked in advance she would have been told that if she wants to impress her Chasson, play for him in private. The band should have asked in advance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvU6GG9J9qw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58htJbACmow
Any of you have an answer to these video? The “super holy” mezibuz rebbe dancing “mitzvah tantz” as the kallah jumps up and down, her gown and hair flying, as dozens of men prance around in the ladies section of this chasunah?
Oh right. This is a “chassidish event”. Mitzvah Tantz trumps all aveiros shebitorah.
Feh
@Ohevet Yisroel – Rabbanim? What Rabbinim? The gangsters that run the kashrus devision of the eidah? lol.
They are mafia agents engaging in daily thuggery. Ask any store owner in yerushalayim. Bunch of reshoyim.
How about ther vaad haztnaiyus divisojn of the eidah? Ever meet any of those lowlives? They are the biggest noyafim in israel. Facts. Check things out.
PS: I only eat the eidah hechsher in israel. But they are a bunch of thugs.
To those questioning why this is not tznius: tznius is not just the length of the skirt or kol isha. It is (among other things) acting in a manner that promotes hirhur by men.
There are certain standards that are relaxed by a Kallah but there is a line that should not be crossed. Having the Kallah play the drums with the band means she then becomes the focal point of all of the men- her movements, facial expression etc. and this does not evoke holy thoughts. I am a middle aged man but I well remember what it would have been like to watch such a scene when I was in my 20’s, and it would definitely evoke thoughts that are inappropriate. Women will never understand this.
This is NOT rocket science!!!! How can this NOT be a serious breach of tznius?!!!- For a kalloh- up on stage in the mens’ section- entertaining the men by drumming in front of them??
Reminder:
Nefesh Hachaim- “A man who has an inappropriate thought for one second about a married woman- has done more damage to the universe than Titus Haroshoh when he defiled the kodesh kodoshim”
Olam hafuch raisi kan. the kallah is being misameach he guests, her chassan and herself. those are all obligations of the chassan, and the guests.
The primary problem is the music is too loud! It makes everyone wild. The musicians are the most guilty parties of all and have caused tremendous harm to klal Yisroel by their refusal to turn down the volume.
Please rename this crazy activity to what it should be called: “Avero Tanz”. A kallo playing a drum is nothing compared to the nonsense of transforming an huge hall full of pseudo-frum people for whom no mechitza is ever thick enough, to a crowd of spectators staring at each other. When the barriers are removed, it suddenly becomes kosher for the men and women to face each other across the heilige dance floor while the “badchan” is up in the clouds while everyone down on Planet Earth fiddles with their “smart phones”. What a sick paradox!
There is a simple misunderstanding about Tzinius that some of the commentators seem to have missed. Tzanua means hidden, and that is what the Eida is not happy about. They are right. Having a kalla on a stage with the crowd looking at her is very not Tzinius.
The comparison to Mitzva Tans is absurd. Keitzad merakdim lifnei hakalla is a Gemara and in Chasidishe places, most of the guest leave by the time the mitzva tans starts, at which time close family dance in front of the kalla to be misameach her. At a rebbishe chasuna, the kalla is usually totally covered and even covers her face. The people are watching the rebbe dance with the kalla. They are not focusing on the kalla herself.
The comparison to Miriam hanevua is even more absurd. She said shira WITH THE WOMEN. Not on stage in front of men watching her perform!
For those that still don’t get it, I guess that is why we need Rabonim to tell us what we can and can’t do. It is why people eat the Hechsher of the eida and not the stamp that others put.
Yeesh, get a life. You guys are freaks for actually caring about this. We’re at the point where you have to be worried about who you chose as your caterer as apparently they might try to ruin your entire life. This is like East Germany.
“The musicians are the most guilty parties of all”
Musicians play, what people want to hear. If people wouldnt hire musicians who play a certain style, or who play at certain decobal levels, the musicians will change in an instant. You can call them facilitators, but certainly not the most guilty.
The Badatz is 100% correct.
The body movements seen made by the kallah during her drum rolling is not tznius.
A mitzvah tantz is supposed to be limited to immediate family. And even then the kallah is supposed to simply stand like a statue holding a gartel, no more. Totally incomparable.
Bulldozer, not sure how many times you’ve been to a mitzvah tantz in your life. Maybe you have been, I have no idea. I’ve been to many including my own children. I can tell you, this is NOT a normative mitzvah tantz. It is unfair to use this as an example to put down a mesorah that goes back hundreds of years and adhered to by tzadikim and ehrlicher Yidden. I don’t know who this rebbe is, perhaps he was not even aware of how the kalah was dancing. There are unfortunately today a lot of people who grew up Chassidish but are now far from that derech. Some will have a mitzvah tantz to make their parents happy. Depending on the crowd it may unfortunately look like this. But it is definitely NOT a reflection on the minhag at large.
Waiting for reputable and relevant sources from the Torah or Rabbinical literature (Shulchan Aruch, Divrei’ Moshe, etc) regarding a female playing musical instruments with others in public. Most comments include NO sources. Many comments include minhagim. Comments with quotes about males not thinking or sinning about a married woman is too vague and non-applicable; as the dimensions of daily living entail seeing women in supermarkets, buses, workplace, ElAl seating arrangements, weddings with mixed dinging table seating, shul (particularly shuls like mine that don’t have a female entrance in the back door or through the basement).
Sanzer, RE: Mitzva Tans. This will be a case of “my rav” vs. “your rav”, so we won’t get anywhere, which is fine. During my yeshiva years in Far Rockaway, I recall another student asked the Rebbe about this. In short, the response was that it’s not appropriate for a male relative (outside of the chosson or father) to be dancing in such a fashion in front of the kallah (the lone female in the room). Let me ask you, you really don’t think that the dancing male won’t pay attention to the kallah? I sure believe he will. I understand it is simply minhag for a sect, so it is what it is.
Regarding other males dancing Mitzva Tans, you are right that there are surely those that are not focusing only on the Kalla, but it is the way you said that “it is the way it is”, and the Makor of the minhag is a holy one. However it is not a blanket Heter for bringing in the Kalla to the men and having men keep on looking at her perform
The answers here as to why this is a breach of tzniyus are far more damning to the posters than to the taharadig kallah who did nothing wrong. This is lunacy and has nothing to do with anything Moshe rabbeneinu brought down on har sinai.
They are correct.
Big breach of tznius.
Definitely a tznius issue here. I have no problem with YWN running this story, but the picture did surprise me. The eidah overreacted. But the hatred coming at the charedim should not be blamed on the charedim. That’s like, lhavdil, blaming a victim of rape for their rape.
To Bulldoxer:
The Chassan in that video looks mortified, embarrassed & I wonder if he was thinking “what have I done??” The Kallah needs her batteries taken out – it seems she is not from the same background or holds by his standards. Methinks this is far from the norm and honestly, I find it awful.
As for Drummer Lady… that too is odd, but I don’t see why it is so terrible. At least she isn’t dancing or singing. I am just confused by the ever-changing “rules” depending on who/what you are.
Glad they are busy with this now, let them get busy with some actually issue!
any normal chosen and kallah will just choose a hall outside the jurisdiction of the eidah.
all rebbe’s close their eyes by mitzva tantz he had no clue she was dancing
A relative of mine had a female musician but she had to be on the women’s side of the mechitza. A wedding is a religious event and should be treated as such.
The Rabbanim however and whoever put up the kallah’s picture however may be embarrassing the kallah, which they should ask her forgiveness for.
I think that anyone who can read the very first comment from Holymoe comparing this sadly untsniusdik kallah to Miriam Haneviah is going to have to give din v’cheshbon b’shamayim that they did not stand up for Miriam’s honor (i.e. write in Miriam’s defence). Miriam Haneviah was a tzadekes beyond anything we can imagine and, I have no doubt, acted with uncompromising modesty. How can he compare our lowly generation to people of such great and lofty character? Shame on Yeshiva World for even letting a comment like that slip through and shame on anyone reading it and not standing up in Miriam’s defence!
Sorry but this is absolute lashon hara even if those involved spoke about it.
Also yes it is a breach of tznius and anyone who sadly doesn’t understand won’t change their mind here.
Thirdly incomparable to a holy minhag such as mitzvah tanz where only immediate family are present and the kallah isn’t doing anything to provoke other men.
Lastly to compare this to Miriam haneviah is mamash a busha. We can’t relate to or understand or compare ourselves to avos and imahos.
The Kalla doing this at the spur of the moment is debatable as to whether it was acceptable or not
taking into consideration
who was left at the hall
But YWN to call themselves orthdox press
and then go ahead and
publish her picture
is far from orthdox
You guys ought to ashamed of yourselves
once again
I fail to see what those “Mitzva Tanz” videos have to do with the Drummer Kallah. It’s two separate inyanim. If you look at the people behind the Dancing Kallah, you see mixed seating and standing among the guests. The seated, clapping mother or grandmother is wearing a low-cut dress. The majority of men are not remotely Chassidish or, for that matter, Yeshivish. The Chasan is not wearing a shtreimel or spodik and no beketshe. The whole scene is totally off-kilter! This is Not a Chassidish wedding, whatever else it may be!
The Drumming Kallah, well, that seems to be somewhat controversial. However, this couple doesn’t seem to be at all Chassidish, perhaps not even Yeshivish. I just watched a clip of it. While, it does seem rather startling, I don’t know if it was really so untzniusdik. Definitely unconventional, though!
At first I thought this was one of those early Purim shpiels we so look forward to here on YWN this time of year…..then, after realizing that indeed It might be some distorted version of reality Bnai Brak style, it became clear that this was the newest release of the horror movie series called “The Revenge of the Eidah” Yes, the concept of tzinius extends to dress or behavior that draws excessive and inappropriate attention to a woman (and men to for that matter). However, to those ehrliche yidden who complain that her being on the stage alone is a form of prtizus that immediately triggered lewd thoughts among all the men in the Simcha hall (…”my husband was nearly out of control”>..) we can refer you to any of the hiqhly qualified professionals advertising here on YWN. And to those who claim that a Mitzvah Tanz is DIFFERENT because only the “family” is present and even then, all the men are in rapture watching their rebbe, I’d refer you to any of the dozens of Rebbeshe Mitzvah Tanz videos posted here on YWN and on YouTube, showing hundreds and sometimes thousands of chassidim on the sidelines and seated in bleacher seating. If you really think they are ALL focused entirely on their rebbe, than we obviously have the most heilege generation of yidden that warrants Moishiach momentarilyl
Maybe she was practicing for when she has to discipline her husband. BTW, isn’t this the same outfit that discriminates against Ethiopian Jews? As for the mashgiach, it was not his job to deal with the music. IF it was he should have demanded that the volume be lowered to a level human ears can tolerate.
Wow this issue drew so many comments
Real problems for klal yisroel.
To all those kanoim who can’t look at a woman ever, I just thought I should warn you. If you go to the chuppah, you will be forced to watch woman bedecked at their finest, walking up an aisle, walking in circles on a stage, and then waiting up there on the stage, for at least a quarter of an hour longer.
I don’t know if it´s a lack of tznius or not, but what I just know is that it´s a real SHAME for this so-called frum news webpage to write down the name of the Kallah and the pictures of her, making this a MASSIVE LASHON HARAH and making all the ones that commented below, machshil in this terrible sin.
I think the ones how should make an apology are the staff of YWN for publishing names and pictures without any permission.
Moderator Response: YWN doesn’t have permission?
It’s all about power and money. Nothing else.
Let the band, the caterer, the hall, the family, and all future ba’alei simcha know Who’s the Boss.
I get it, but I still don’t understand.
A kallah is ALREADY on display, everyone is already seeing her at her chupa.
What does the Kashrus of the hall have to do with the band, as far as I’m aware Kashrus has nothing to do with anything else other than the food?
Sanzer- one thing you have NOT answered! Why is her playing the drum- which brings HER simcha any WORSE than mitzvah tanz?? Why is it “mitzvah”? Because it is mesameiach the kallah! This is ALSO mesameiach her and there is LESS involvement with the men then in mitzvah tanz? You can’t have it both ways! If any thing the drum scenario is much less of an infringement on tzenius!!!!
To all those who scream “mesorah” in defense of “mitzvah tanz” ; can it be that maybe it was considered ok bedoros hakadmonim , because they were on lofty madreigos that we are not capable of. See gemoroh kesubos where an amoral would carry and dance with the kallah to make her besimcha on her big day- so the amoral was asked about it and he answered that “to me she I’d merely like a log (keshuro)- but we don’t see anyone copying that because no one can claim th a d he is on the lofty level of that amoral!!! Similarly , although previous doros had tzadikim capable of being mechaven only lesheim mitzvah without hirhurim asurim, today’s rabonim are far removed from that ; so therefore just because the previous doros performed mitzvah tanz does not give this minhag a blanket heter with the excuse of “menorah”!!!
“”What does the Kashrus of the hall have to do with the band, as far as I’m aware Kashrus has nothing to do with anything else other than the food????
Chazal bring down that its a slippery slope such that if a conniving owner of a Simcha hall creates a diversion by allowing the kallah to “jam” with the band on any type of percussion instruments, the mashgichim will all get excited and run out of the kitchen to observe the pritzus and during the confusion, the owner and his kitchen staff will back up a truck with chazerfleish to the back door and end up serving trefus to the guests. Thus, they established the “no varbeshe drumming” rule at any facilities where these vulnerable mashgichim provide hashgacha. the only heter I know of is the use of a small hand drum played entirely on the varbeshe section of the hall.
Mesorah NOT Menorah
can someone please explain to me why now it’s ok to bash chassidim and their minhagim. How come every time something happens we look at chassidim and rip them apart. Are they not part of klal Yisroel. Every single person who wants to know why it’s ok to do a mitzvah tantz is because it’s mesorah. The same way a Sephardi has a mesorah to eat rice or kinyois on Pesach. The same way a yekki can eat meat after 3 hours. So stop ripping on mesorah and minhagim. There is a mashal I don’t know by which rav but I heard it recently. If you have a pile of nuts and you pull one out the whole pile will fall, let’s say you a pull out a nut shell that is empty will the pile still fall? Yes, the nimshal is even if you don’t know where the mesorah is from or how it got here to start questioning ripping are complaining about it is destroying klal Yisroel. So stop hating on chassidim for something that the Charedim is involved in Charedim and chassidim from america or Europe or different types of people, it’s like blaming ger for a problem that was made by satmar it is stupid. Was it not Tznius for the kallah to ply the drums? Rather you hold it was ok or it was not ok, ask yourself would you do it if you were that kallah would you let your daughter do it if she was the kallah. If you would answer no think why, yes it may not be proper for a women to play in front of men, however at the same time how is this helping klal Yisroel all of us sitting here ripping on this chassan and this kallah for allowing it to happen. Maybe I missed understood when I was younger the matziv but when I was younger I’m pretty sure we were taught that Miriam played the music by the lady’s not the men so please don’t compare this to Miriam unless this band was in the lady section, and if it was that’s a whole different matziv. So please stop rushing to blame chassidim for being a little more machmar then you or stop blaming this kallah for wanting to play drums by her wedding, and stop blaming the eidah for getting upset, or the band for allowing it cause it happened it’s over nothing you can do or say will change what happened and how people reacted we can just ask ourselves how we will handle the situation if it was our own wedding or our children’s weddings.
May klal Yisroel only continue to hear of Simcha and to know when to keep what we think in our minds and not put it into writing on a website.
P.S if you don’t like the story that YWN posts then don’t read their website
the gemara says the amoraim used to dance with the kalla on their shoulders to make her happy, so if this makes her happy let her do it, that is the main thing of the wedding to make the choson and kalla happy.
The mitzvah tantz is brought down in the Machzer Vitri which is from the time of Rashi. The mitzvah tantz wasn’t started by Chasidim.
Stop with the hate-
” Mesorah” is not an adequate answer to justify “mitzvah tanz”. Sea my previous comment.
See NOT Sea
I cant tell you how many people have told me that its ok to watch so and so-the women are fully dressed. THIS IS COMPLETELY FALSE!! it is assur to gaze at a women even dressed. In this case, the chances of it leading to a man gazing is almost certain! to claim that its no different then a mitzvah tantz is usually not true, and even if it is, that doesnt make it ok!! two wrongs dont make a right!!! a mitzvah tantz nowadays may be not tznius, but sinc its a mesorah/minhag will never be eradicated. mesorah is the reason its still done, not a reason that proves its always ok!!! think about this…..
Would any of the moderaters want their
daughter, wife, sister, or mothers picture plastered
all over the press ???
For the same reason this
kalla’s pictures were published
Doubt it !!!
SMFG3
Why is her playing the drum- which brings HER simcha any WORSE than mitzvah tanz?? Why is it “mitzvah”? Because it is mesameiach the kallah! This is ALSO mesameiach her and there is LESS involvement with the men then in mitzvah tanz?
The answer is very simple. The gemara talks about the mitzva of being misameach choson vkalla, and keitzad merakdim lifnei hakalla is part of that. Nowhere does it say anything about the kalla being misameach herself, especially when it is in a way that is not tznius. I think it’s pretty simple
So you understand why the Eida needs power, someone has to do the job, That’s why I fully support the Eida Hacariedis even when disagree, We need to have Authority.
Time to have cheap weddings in the Rabbi’s study, with just 10 people. Then if the couple manage to remain married, let them have a big party @silver wedding with their children dancing, and again @golden wedding with their children and their grandchildren dancing.
One of the commenters mentioned that we should not compare Miriam haNeviah to this Kallah from our generation. Miriam was on a very very high level, very close to Hashem.
This point happens to be valid. I disagree with you on another point.
To call this Kallah “not tzanua “, that is a very big sin.
2 wrongs don’t make a right.
“Waiting for reputable and relevant sources from the Torah or Rabbinic literature regarding a female playing musical instruments in public.”
Teshuvos HaRadvaz 2:770 and SHU”T Mishnah Halachos 6:25 are cited by Rabbi P. E. Falk in this context (Modesty: an Adornment for Life, page 470.) (He also says to see his companion sefer Mekoros, 74:1, but I don’t have that.)
Miriam Haneviah led the women off to a secluded place AWAY from the men. She did NOT dance with the woman where the men could see them. Every kindergarten child knows this!
If an activity is not done in a certain location then it is פורץ גדר Even when unintentional as possibly in this case. All forced comparisons and analogies to other locations and activities are therefore irrelevant and moot!
80+ postings later, I doubt very much this chasan/kalah really care about all the hateful commentary being expressed about her 5 minutes of percussion fame. I truly wish them mazael tov, happiness an building a “bayis n’eaman b’yisroel’. Most importantly, I hope she save her drumsticks for her daughter’s chassanah which I suspect will be held at a simcha hall outside of b’nai brak with a non-Eidah hashgacha.
Once again YWN has nothing better to do with their life, bringing all this Israeli immaturity to the U.S.
When there is good news in Lakewood about R’ Eisman, you don’t see anything on this site, all they care about is all the silliness of Lev Tahor, Dibuks and this very important peice of info..