18 Responses

1. Should we discuss the theory that the Eidah hareidis (and Neturei Karta is a radical party within the broader Eidah community) decided it needed more members – so it slipped a bribe to the leaders of the zionist parties to act in a way that will totally discredit the pro-zionist frum political leaders (Shas, Degel ha-Torah, and Agudath Israel). How else could you explain the zionist parties acting in a way the is clearly designed to vindicated the Eidah (and for the most part, Neturei Karta)?

   It’s fascinating that in many countries it is illegal for men to lean against women on public transit, but apparently in Israel it will be mandatory. The country’s fighting a losing battle to stay off the list of leading offenders for international sex trafficking, but this is their top priority. So now we know what Sodom would have looked like if it had lasted to the modern era.

2. “While gender discrimination is being confused by lawmakers with the different roles for men and women in Yiddishkheit…”

   Not so sure about that. A frum man and woman who don’t want to sit next to each other will not go to jail for choosing not to. The problem becomes when (for example) a frum man doesn’t want a lady to sit next to him on a bus (let’s say she’s secular and doesn’t care about separate seating), so he embarasses her, or other people on the bus coerce her to change her seat. That’s gender discrimination. The “men and women have different roles” defence only works if both parties are doing it voluntarily.

3. what about PUBLIC BATHROOMS will their be no segragation their either?

4. This is called religious persecution and is a crime against humanity. Let us hope that there are enough sane people in the Knesset that this will fade away.

5. is the kosel also a “public place”? is a shul?

6. They better start building jails….

7. Mazal Tov!!!

   It’s about time!!

8. They’ll never pass this anti-Torah measure, since even the zionists, as big reshoyim as they are, they know if they attempt to shmad Jews and force them to abandon Torah principles such as these, it will certainly lead to civil war between the Jews and the zionists.

9. theoretically would seperate public bathrooms be illegal in Israel?

10. 5 years imprisonment / 300,000 shekel fine but private buses by charedim in a “democratic” country is illegal.

    Actually, the first to get 5 years imprisonment should be the Defense Minister for excluding women in Chief of Staff all the years.

11. “a bill introduced by MK (Labor) Yitzchak Herzog”

    So you see, the hate comes from both right & left.

    Akuperma, you have saying that the Chareidim will or should join with the Labor/left. “They won’t chepper the Frumah”. Not so fast.

12. I predict Labor will back down (and note that Herzog is NOT the leader of the party – and lost the last time he sought the job), or alternatively, that Likud and Bayit Yehudi will get “cold feet” about persecuting the Bnei Torah, for fear of Labor recruiting them.

    The alternative, given that the Bnei Torah will never give up being frum, is that we will quickly approach the point when a significant portion of Bnei Torah will be forced to conclude that they are better off as a Dhimmi (autonomous tolerated minority) under an Islamic state, than an a persecuted minority under a zionist state – and if it gets that bad, the Hareidim being forced to change side will lead to the destruction of the medinah.

13. akuperma,
    How does anything vindicate the Eidah? the separation on buses wasn’t even done by Eidah people but also by all frum factions when it started.

    The bigger question is how do you call Degel and Agudah “pro-zionist”? they are as anti zionist as the Eidah is, and Rav Ahron Kotler and Rav Elyashiv is no more ‘Zionist’ than the Satmerer Rebbe. – The reality is that once the state is up and running you are part of the pie – weather you ‘recognize’ it or not – and the Eidah not voting in Elections is part of the cause of laws like these.

    The point is not to be ‘Machria’ between Torah giants. The point is the fact that a big bulk of Torah sages felt, despite their pain from Zionism, that the way to be ‘Mocheh’ is from inside, while the Satmerer Rav and the Eidah felt it’s better from the outside. and for every problem you’ll point out with the method of fighting from the inside I’ll point out a problem with the other way…

    Let’s rise above our small minded differences and realize that when Gedolei Torah say something it’s Hashem’s will, and it makes perfect sense that Hashem wants that there should be some frum yidden involved within the political system and he also wants that there should be some frum yidden yelling from the outside etc. to me it’s very clear, and I wish people would realize that by disrespecting a different frum Hashkafa you’re making Hashem smaller… (no more room here to explain)

14. to #13who wrote “How does anything vindicate the Eidah?”

    Over the last 90 years, the Eidah (in various forms) has been saying that zionism will come to no good end. That it is inherently “off the derekh” and even if some of them seem Jewish, they are inherently opposed to Torah. The supports (and/or apologists) for the zionists, always claimed there was something inherently good about the zionists. Now it is apparent that the zionists are finally revealing themselves as our mortal enemies. They want to grab frum children in order to induce them to adopt a non-Torah lifestyle. They want to use prisons and financial penalties to close the hareidi yeshivos. They want to prohibit any Jewish customs that make Jews different from goyim (and from zionists). The laws being proposed by the current regime would have fit in quite nicely with Stalin’s. For almost a century the Eidah said the zionists were weakening the frum community with nice works and gifts of money, and now they are ready to strike forcefully. Like it or not, they have declared war upon us – just as the Eidah has been predicting.

15. Public enterprises (streets, hospitals, highways, federal buildings, transportation) can never be GENDER-separate. Those who are interested can take Sherutim for only man or woman to get to their destination.

16. To #7:- You hit the nail on the head, because more men & women being together, shall IY’H lead to more Shiduchim Kein Yirbu.

17. 14, you are wrong to classify voting/knesset activity, with the beliefe of “is there anything good in the zionists”.

    as I said, being in the Knesset isn’t because we believe there’s something good in zionism, it’s just an outcome of the fact that weather we like it or not we are part of a state that is legislating our lives – see above.

    True, we do feel a RESPONSIBILITY to all Jews including zionists – but not zionism. I’m sure you agree that vast majority of ‘zionists’ are still yidden, and there’s a Mitzva to save them, physically and spiritually. So that Yiddishe Neshama is surely “something good” in them, but not in their zionistic ideology. Every frum yid knows that this state is going to have to crumble before the light of the Geulah shines forth. But how to deal with it while it’s here is like Jews in Europe trying to monipulte the polish nobilmen, mostly by negotiation not force.

18. I geuss this “democracy” doesn’t value freedom of religion.