HaGaon HaRav Dov Lior, a prominent posek in the dati leumi community and mora d’asra of Kiryat Arba commented on Tuesday, 22 Nissim 5773 on the planned draft of bnei Torah. “This is not a gezeira” he is quoted as saying, adding “the devil is not so bad and these are not decrees of Czar Nicolas. Time will play its role and things will calm down.”
The rav made his comments during an address at the Sixth Ramle Conference under the banner “Public Law in a Jewish State”.
The rav explained that in the coming weeks those who are truly learning with mesirus nefesh will be noticed and they will not have a problem, adding one deciding to dedicate one’s life to limud Torah demands “mesirus nefesh, day and night Torah study”. He added that those bnei Torah will not be drafted while others will; explaining the state never recognized all those learning Torah as playing a role in the nation’s security but those who are truly dedicated, are indeed recognized as fulfilling their role.
“This is not a gezeira. They wish to make order” he explains.
Regarding the Supreme Court ruling to abolish the Tal Law, Rav Lior explains the decision was made, adding that in his view, the court failed to adequately take into consideration the tzibur which hold limud as a central role in its life. The rav explained that the court had to also consider how the ruling would be perceived by the tzibur for אין גוזרים גזירה על הציבור אלא אם כן הוא יכול לעמוד בו. The rav feels the court failed to adequately understand the chareidi tzibur and the role of limud in the community.
Rabbi Lior feels that one of the problems in Israel is that everything may be adjudicated in courtroom while this is not so, and not everything is suited for a courtroom. He feels the Knesset must legislate laws to set parameters regarding what can be brought before the court and what may not be adjudicated by the nation’s judicial system.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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13 Responses
Huh? So what exactly, is he saying?
Truth be told…
He is correct, and it has to do with what happened when the Russians tried a similar draft (and with the same motivation – attacking frumkeit rather than a need for more soldiers).
In the 19th century, the frum community allowed its weaker members to be drafted, and ended up alienating the bulk of the population who then started on the road to becoming hiloni. In all fairness, resistance would have led to severe persecution, and the people ten decided that turning over a few was better than risking the whole community.
In the 21st century, most rabbanim have called for resistance. Due to changes in international human rights laws, better communications (as in “the whole world is watching”), and the fact that a significant minority of Israel are Jews who will be uncomfortable with throwing rabbanim in jail or expelling them from Eretz Yisrael, there is less risk in resistance. The worst that will happen will be a lower standard of living.
The courageous resistance to conscription will end up strengthening the frum community, and improve its image in the world at large, and in the eyes of hilonim. Standing up for a moral principle is a tremendous kiddush ha-Shem – and in the age of the internet, it will be very much in public. In the eyes of many, being Jewish means seizing lands from Arabs who have lived there for over 1000 years or trashing their olive trees — now it will mean putting Torah and Mitsvos ahead of parnassah and perhaps even personal liberty.
So “rabbi” Lior. Conscription will discredit the zionists, and make the hareidi world stronger. .
Meanwhile, derogatory flyers aimed at Haredi soldiers serving in the Israel Defense Forces have appeared over the Chag most haredi population centers, including Bnei Brak, Beitar Illit and Jerusalem.
In the flyers, haredi soldiers are called “haredikim.” ( play on the hebrew word for Bacteria – haydakim!) This is what we call our children? Even those who do things we may not agree with? Bacteria?? Is this a Torah community worthy of the name that can say such evil?
adam613: Until now, hareidim who volunteered for the army did so of their own volition, and with knowledge that their medinah supported those who chose to learn full time. Now that their community has been stabbed in the back, the only honorable thing for them to do is to resign from the army. The zionists have cried out “Me neged ha-Shem, itanu” (who is against ha-Shem, with us), and those hareidim who joined the IDF now should refuse to serve.
Torah knowlege and age can only be as strong as the foundation…
#4 This Machlokes which is has initiated from the Charedi side is bringing down Kavod Shem Shamayim in increased numbers.
Worthwhile to study the ‘Meches Chochoma’ who values achdus and defames Machlokes and its ramifications.
Akuperma, your comparison is sickening. The Cantonist draft was a draft of children for periods of 25 years for the express purpose of converting them. The draft of those Chareidi men who are not learning full-time is for the purpose of equalizing the mitzva d’Oraita of defending Am Yisrael. Moreover, it will give these men an opportunity to channel their energy into productive fields whereas now they wander around and cause trouble in their own communities due to their boredom.
Why is it that YWN always refers to Haredi rabbis as ‘Gedolim’ whereas Mizrahi rabbis are only ‘Poskim / Gedolim within the Daati Leumi community.’ ?
If Daati Leumi consider Haredi rabbis to be gedolim despite idealogical differences, why can’t Haredim recognize Mizrahi Torah giants to be gedolim as well?
“In the eyes of many, being Jewish means seizing lands from Arabs who have lived there for over 1000 years or trashing their olive trees”
The leading Religious Zionist rabbis, including Rabbi Aharon Lichtenstein and Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, have repeatedly condemned the “price tag” vandals who have been trashing olive trees and mosques. Unfortunately, the vandals don’t listen to them or to anyone else. Those vandals are like those who are without a god.
#10 read the Torah. Soo you condemn Samson as well since he fought against the Filistines and even killed them!
Also many people don’t recognize nor follow the people you mentioned. Aviner is under a Herem by our Rabbanim including Rav Yaakov Yosef Shlitta and Aviner works together with the Medina.
#9 the “Gdolim” buisness is relatively new. Soo its not an insult not to be referred to as a “Gadol”.
#4 it is mainly NK nutjobs who waste all day making those flyers and all.
#10 Every group under the sun has their fringe group, there are those (#3) who assume that fringe is mainstream when it fits their agenda.
There are many issues that a soverign government decides, who pays taxes and its rates, age to obtain a driver’s license, when and how often postal and sanitation services are given, etc. etc.,, the Israeli government with the haskama of past gedolim stated that those bochurim who “Torasu is NOT umnasu” are required to enlist in the IDF, what is the current shayla???