MK Rabbi Shai Piron, number two on the Yesh Atid list spoke with Kol Berama Radio’s Moti Lavi on Monday morning, 1 Adar 5773.
KOL BERAMA:
Can you please explain to listeners a bit about yourself and your past? Most listeners do not know much about you.
RABBI PIRON:
I am the rav of Oranit and was a rosh yeshiva in a number of yeshivot and published a number of seforim including a SHuT addressing halachic issues for the disabled.
KOL BERAMA:
Does your party understand that while it seeks to make a change in today’s reality, one cannot throw out the baby with the bath water? Simply stated, how do you feel you can go about implementing change?
RABBI PIRON:
This sounds to me like someone who paid tax and says I don’t wish to pay any additional taxes or someone who received benefits and no longer wishes to enjoy other benefits. One does not have a connection to the other.
KOL BERAMA:
Yes I know but the idea is not to shout we have power, 19 seats so let’s get the chareidim.
RABBI PIRON:
If that was the case we would not have to say we are willing to wait five years before implementing the plan. What you say is not the case. We are not making this decision. In addition to the Ribono Shel Olam there is another ‘Ribon’ in the state, and that is the state.
KOL BERAMA:
Piron is very close to Lapid and has a great deal to say about the party’s policies and influences decisions significantly.
RABBI PIRON:
Because we understand that the process is a major one, in addition to the technical and logistics involved, we feel the draft as we envision will begin in five years from now. This is not about power. During these five years, anyone wishing to be exempt from any service may head out to work if he wishes.
We are looking long term. We know that a beis medrash has the quality talmidim, those who are most serious, and we are all aware of this. These are the people who must continue learning for they are the next generation talmidei chachamim and in my eyes, this is a holy mission. They must continue. Contrarily, those attending three sedarim daily and conducting a regular life can serve and continue learning.
There are the disabled, special needs children, hospitals and other areas that are crying for manpower. We can find an outstanding place for chareidi talmidim to serve and contribute to the nation.
KOL BERAMA:
What about an 18-year-old who is serious and truly wishes to learn and he is pulled away.
RABBI PIRON:
This will not occur. Let me explain again. The number we spoke of, 400 annually is not holy. The concept is holy not the number. Let’s look back to the days of Ben-Gurion and see where this began. What were the numbers?
In 1977 the full time learners simply did not exist. I have studied and learned and I know. Let’s get on a plane and travel to New York and we can find talmidim no less serious than here and they are not sitting and learning full time but doing other things as well.
KOL BERAMA:
Why present it like this. Davka today with a record-breaking number of chareidim in the army and other service areas you guys are coming and possibly destroying it all.
RABBI PIRON:
I want you to understand my distress, what we are seeking. We are not against chareidim in any way. Hear me clearly. The State of Israel needs the chareidim and they are part of the nation, and we need and want them. I have nothing negative to say about the chareidim. They maintain much of the chessed that exists in the nation.
Contrarily, regarding the work place, the chareidi community is at the bottom among OECD nations. The change as you describe, the record-numbers represents an insignificant number.
KOL BERAMA:
Do you have the numbers, the figures because I do? There is a significant difference. Do you know how many chareidim were in the IDF or national service in 2005?
RABBI PIRON:
A few. Nothing to speak of.
KOL BERAMA:
That is correct and what about 2011?
RABBI PIRON:
A bit more than 1,000.
KOL BERAMA:
No. actually it was 4,400
RABBI PIRON:
Permit me to explain where my numbers come from and what you are doing.
KOL BERAMA:
My numbers are the official stats released by the IDF and National Service Authority. In 2005 there were 300 and in 2010 there were 4,000. By the way, the same holds true regarding the workplace. In 2002 the number of chareidi men working reached 33% as opposed to 45% in 2011. There is a sharp increase regarding women too.
RABBI PIRON:
Don’t you get it? 55% are not taking part. That is over half. By the way we are not talking about compulsory induction at the age of 18. Perhaps 20 or 21 years old. These are the issues that we must discuss and decide upon but I can tell you that we are not insisting on the draft age of 18 despite what the media may be reporting.
When you present a plan you begin with the cultural realities that exist and today, induction is at the age of 18 but there are exceptions today, like the preparatory yeshivot so for us, it is clear that the chareidim will not be entering the IDF at 18. On the other side, entering at age 25 or 26 with a number of children does not work for that person in ineffective in the IDF.
Perhaps take a community like Modi’in Illit and place chareidim there to protect the community instead of bringing other chayalim in. They can serve in their own community and not be exposed to the unwanted culture.
KOL BERAMA:
So you are saying a situation cannot occur in which one wishing to learn Torah will not be permitted to do so. Are you sure Lapid and others agree with this? I am not sure the chareidim understand your plan either.
Where did you serve Rabbi Piron?
RABBI PIRON:
Yes they do. We are all of the same opinion in Yesh Atid. I was in hesder in Merkaz HaRav and then served in the Artillery Corps. I learned in yeshiva at Merkaz for over 10 years.
KOL BERAMA:
Do you prefer a coalition without chareidim?
RABBI PIRON:
I don’t believe in a coalition in which any group is automatically disqualified. We don’t view anyone like this.
KOL BERAMA:
You know they say regarding Yair Lapid he has a dislike for the chareidim. At least his late father Tommy was open and above board but with you party leader chareidim feel he says one thing but feels another.
RABBI PIRON:
Permit me to be perfectly honest regarding the entire matter of religion and state. There has been a demonization and I am not pointing a finger at you but for as long as we are being honest, let’s put our cards on the table. The way religion is being conducted here today it has led to much antagonism in many sectors and this is a fact today.
KOL BERAMA:
So Yair would not prefer a coalition without chareidim. Are you going to remain firm regarding your platform?
RABBI PIRON:
As I said it is not a matter of principle but to see if an agreement can be reached. Regarding our platform, every party wants to remain true to its ideals. Wouldn’t you agree?
KOL BERAMA:
Yes but Shas for example is flexible and realizes the need to be this way to enter a coalition.
RABBI PIRON:
We too are aware of this but each party must decide just how much flexibility can be exhibited while remaining true to one’s ideals. Everyone entering the coalition seeks to push an agenda as much as possible.
KOL BERAMA:
With your hand on your heart do you honestly believe Yesh Atid will bring about a real change regarding your flagship inyan, the share the burden? Do you see a revolution in five years from today regarding the induction of chareidim?
RABBI PIRON:
I cannot say what will be or if we will succeed but I know we can only try our best. This is important to us and we are trying to bring about a change.
KOL BERAMA:
Do you see yourself serving as minister of education in the government?
RABBI PIRON:
I can tell you that we have not discussed anything regarding cabinet portfolios. If and I say if it should come about and I am a minister and I am serving as education minister, or in any position, I can tell you we will do our best to act appropriately and, honestly, fairly, with equality and with Ahavat Torah in all our actions.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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12 Responses
The headline is incorrect. He never made the claim that nobody in NY today is learning full time. He said that in 1977 no one was learning full time. And he said that now in NY “we can find” talmidim as serious as those in Israel but who are not learning full time.
The author of the headline misread the quote.
Moderators Response: Actually, your dead wrong. Take a look at what he said. “Let’s get on a plane and travel to New York and we can find talmidim no less serious than here and they are not sitting and learning full time but doing other things as well.”
“Le’s get on a plane”. That means right now, on 2/11/2013, and right now, this very day, between New York and New Jersey, there are an easy 10,000 people learning full time. So yes, Piron is living in fantasy land.
Dear “Rabbi” Piron: The talmidim of Mir, Torah Vodaath, Chaim Berlin, Novominsk, Bais HaTalmud, etc want to set the record straight: They are NOT twiddling their thumbs; they are sitting and shteiging THREE sedorim a day and they do not appreciate your dumb remarks. Perhaps if you actually continued learning Torah after you got your “smicha” you would understand the importance of Torah learning. Klal Yisrael cannot survive without Torah. The world cannot survive without Torah. Go speak to our REAL gedolim, Rav Chaim and Rav Shteinman, and find out what they think of your grand plans and ideas. You’re a shoyta and you know nothing about the REAL Torah world.
“In addition to the Ribono Shel Olam there is another ‘Ribon’ in the state, and that is the state”
????!!!!!!
Is this person for real or is he just an outright kofer??
He has the chutzpah to make a statement like that and call himself a ‘Rabbi’??!? Can somebody please tell me that I misread something here and he didn’t just unashamedly put ‘the state’ on an equal level with HKBH??! And they let him continue the interview??!??
So there you have it from the ‘Rabbi’ of Yesh Atid, there’s now:
1) The Ribbon shel Olam, and
2) ‘The state’ – their official avoda zara
RAHMANA LITSLAN!!
sounds like Piron never visited Lakewood
additionally I didn’t know the medina was on the same plane as the Ribono Shel Olam
y do we keep giving this rasha a platform ?
he may be way off statistically but the default chareidi in new york is not a kollel for lifer the way it is in eretz yisroel. the difference between american chareidim and israeli chareidim in that regard is undeniable.
I still don’t understand, why Piron joined with Yesh Atid & not Bayit Hayehudi.
This guy is a snake with a Yarmuka to give him some credentials. disgusting!
The Moderator’s Response in comment #1 is repeating the same error that the headline made. Unfortunately, the moderator’s response takes an overly aggressive approach in making this error when he says “Actually, your (sic) dead wrong”
What the quote from Rav Piron says – and what commenter #1 tried to correctly point out – is that now (yes, agreed, he’s referring to today) “we can find talmidim no less serious than here and they are not sitting and learning full time but doing other things as well.” That means that there are currently very serious learners in NY that are doing both – learning & working. He’s pointing out that it’s possible to do both at the same time while not compromising the seriousness of your learning. He did NOT claim that there are NO full-time learners in NY.
Again, just to make this very clear – he said “WE CAN FIND…” That means that serious learners that ALSO work exist in NY but NOT TO EXCLUSION THAT THERE ARE FULL TIME LEARNERS IN NY. Do you see the difference? He never said that full time learners don’t exist in NY.
“and we can find talmidim” does not in any way connote that these are the only talmidim that can possibly be found and no others. Whatever you may think of Rabbi Piron and his haskkafos, I don’t think your headline statement “Claims No Charedim In New York Learn Full Time” can be justified. L’aniyas da’ati,this may be motzi shem ra.
Everyone who lives out of the country has no right, IMHO, to express anything about how the Charedim live here – just like I wouldn’t about how Charedim live in the USA – each has their Gedolim who give guidance
By the way, my own son-in-law did civil service but only after speaking to his Rabbonim about it
This Peron – dosen’t seem to have any Rabbonim at all – he says he learned in Mercaz HaRav – but the Frum Mizrachi (“CHARDAL” – Charedi LeUmi) are also against him – so why does the YW put him on at all?