(UPDATE: Letter to YWN added in extended article) Kosher consumers who buy hand-made shmurah matzoh will be paying 8% – 20% more than a year ago, a KosherToday survey showed. The special bakeries say that the steep price increases are due to the rising cost of wheat. In Boro Park, customers can expect to pay $18.25/lb. while at other bakeries prices are as high as $20.
The shmurah matzohs have already been in the news with one illegal Williamsburg bakery shut down by authorities and another, experiencing extensive damage from a 3-alarm blaze.
Despite the record breaking price increases and the increased competition, matzoh bakeries expect to sell a record number of the hand made matzoh. One bakery said that unlike many other foods, some people buy matzoh at the same bakery that their father or grandfather may have patronized.
The steep increases come on top of general price hikes in many Passover foods, including dairy and products made with wheat, shortening and oil.
UPDATE: LETTER SUBMITTED TO YWN:
Dear Yeshiva World News,
It isn’t only matzoh prices, or even prices for Pesach foods.
My husband was nifter almost seven years ago. I was left with six children to raise. In addition, I am multiply handicapped. Each month, a local grocery store, has given me an allotment of money to purchase groceries with. I buy ninety-percent of my groceries, meats, and vegetables there. The money they give me used to cover one trip to the store (and I made eight trips a month).
My children are getting older, and two are now married. But prices have kept rising.
Each year, before Pesach, as early as Chanukah time, I start to worry about being able to afford all the things I will need in order to make Pesach in the way my husband always wanted. His minhag was to eat only hand baked shmura matzoh. With the family present for the sedarim, and having boys who know how to eat, I use approximately twenty pounds of matzoh during the week.
If what you have said is true, and matzoh will cost what you say, I am in deep trouble. There is no way I will be able to purchase enough matzoh and still be able to buy all the other foods I need. Normally, I spend about five hundred dollars on groceries alone – not including meat, dairy products, fruits and vegetables, and of course matzoh. I do all my own baking so that I don’t spend extra money on purchasing cakes, and buy the minimal amount of nosh.
Then there is the added expense of stove covers, sink liners, counter liners, table covers, plastic containers, not to mention cleansers and paper goods. Let’s not forget that we also need wine. I don’t have to tell you that we are talking about a major financial expenditure.
Something has to be done to help control these prices. I know that everything you do always comes back to you, and keeping Pesach in the way my family did when my husband was alive is very important to me and to my children. But am I supposed to go into debt to do so? I didn’t even mention the expense involved with purchasing new clothing – not that I buy so much – but it does all add up.
I have already seen an increase in the price of meats recently, and eggs have skyrocketed. I am worried and I am not alone. With the rising costs of tuition, and the struggle to pay one’s mortgage every month, the price of making Pesach is becoming a hefty challenge.
I hope someone else is as worried as I am and is trying to find a solution to these problems.
A Freilichen Purim to all (another huge expense), and a chag Kosher V’Sameach.
Concerned in Brooklyn.
(Photo credit: Phoenix Jewish News)
Join the official YWN WhatsApp status
73 Responses
I think i’m going to open my own bakery and i’ll call it the SHEMURA MATZO GEMACH. Charging only for the wheat, water and the labor. anyone wana join?
I have a great idea – why not set up price Vaads, like they do in Eretz Yisroel apartments 🙂
But if you think this is a joke, then look at the Mishna Brura siman 242 s”k 2, where he says that they should make Takanos to boycott the fish stores (and not buy fish for Shabbos) if the stores raise the prices.
It is because of the demand for wheat for the production of ethanol.
When you take into consideration that it is a handmade product, labor intensive, breaks easily, the price is pretty reasonable. I do think that Shevarim should be more readily available at a cheaper price.
Judaism comes with a price tag. Literally.
We should rename the yomtov from zeman chyrusenu to zeman ripoffsenu.
now before any smart alec starts ranting why the “rabbomim” dont put a ban on shmurah matzohs like some ignoramas mentioned on the shmeltzer episode postings “the node b’yehuda l’gaby fish on shaboss(by the way its the mogan avrohom hilchos shabos 242 seif 1), a)one can eat machine matzohs b)to manufacture machine matzos is tremendos undertaking, so let us hear your opinion what it should cost c)fish on shabbos is not d’oiraise or d’rabonon unlike matzoh eating ( l’gabay the rabbonim should assur it does pertain here…)
I have to tell you, the Lipa bit especially has really made me realize the wisdom of the gedolim and thoughtful commentators on the dangers of blogs. Please realize that yes, there has unfortunately been price gouging in the past but if you do the grocery shopping you know how much food costs have gone up. We’ve had high gas prices before, that’s not the only culprit. But no brand flour used to be 79 cents, as little as a year ago. Now it’s $1.89!! Hashem should give us all the resources we need to make a bekovedik yom tov with all the trimmings, because it will cost more this year, and it won’t be the manufacturers’ and storekeepers’ faults.
And a p.s. Read the kids’ book Chaimkel the Dreamer and you will look at Jewish storekeepers in a whole new, sympathetic light.
And to add to #4’s post. Wheat and flour prices have gone through the roof and shmura flour is more expensive to begin with (the wheat is bought from small farmers and milled in small mills and then there is the cost of the mashgiach). Also, this is a seasonal business, thus the owners of the bakeries (if privately owned) need to survive for the entire year. Yes, it is a tyrcha for large families, so maybe cut back a little and maybe the gedolim should matir kitniyot thus giving large families more and less expensive foods to eat over pesach.
Look at this positively, When we come up to shomayim after 120, we will be questioned on our conduct when it came to spending monies: if every purchase was justified? perhaps a little too much splurging etc. etc., At lest then we’ll have a limud zechus for ourselves we splurged when it came to buying matzos aswell.
So cheer up chevrah! and don’t get so scared if a mitzvoh cost you a bit – after all imagine how much a yid in the next world would be prepared to pay just to have on bite of matzoh (a kzayis)!
The following is from the BBC
Why are wheat prices rising?
Wheat prices have hit record highs and tight supplies of the staple crop have ignited concern about rising food costs.
The price of spring wheat jumped almost 25% on Monday – the biggest one-day increase to date.
The rise comes as the UN’s World Food Programme warns that it will have to start cutting rations or feeding fewer people if it does not get more money to cope with the higher cost of food.
Wheat is used to make staple foods such as bread, pasta and noodles.
EXPORT CURBS
The main reason behind Monday’s sudden rise in wheat prices was a decision by Kazakhstan to impose export tariffs to curb sales.
Kazakhstan, which is one of the world’s largest exporters of the grain, said the curbs would help it battle an inflation rate of nearly 20%.
The move follows similar restrictions imposed by Russia and Argentina.
DROUGHT
World wheat stocks are expected to hit a 30-year low this year, partly driven by the worst drought in Australia in 100 years, which halved the winter wheat crop to 12 million tonnes in 2007.
Reports of drought and water shortages in north-west China, where most of the country’s wheat is grown, have also spurred buying in recent days.
LAND FOR BIOFUELS
Demand for alternative energy sources has led farmers to sow less wheat and convert land to crops such as corn, sugarcane and rapeseed, that can be turned into biofuels.
Ethanol, diesel and other liquid fuels can be made from processing plant material.
But this means there is less land for growing food crops.
Wheat prices may come down as high prices convince farmers to devote more land to the crop, but this takes time.
“Ample supply is likely to emerge in the second half of the year, with farmers increasing their portion of acreage attributed to wheat,” said analysts at Barclays Bank.
GROWING DEMAND
In addition to the supply problems pushing up prices, there has also been growing demand.
Increasing wealth in China and India, for example, has led to consumers eating more meat, which means more grain is needed to feed farm animals.
The US Department of Agriculture forecasts that Chinese imports of pork will double over the next 10 years.
SPECULATIION BY INVESTORS
Wheat prices have also soared as commodities have found favour among investors struggling with poor returns in other markets.
Stock markets have lost ground as the world economy slows and the fallout from the sub-prime crisis continues
International wheat prices skyrocket
Tuesday February 26, 2008, 11:49 pm
The following is from ABC
The price of high-quality wheat has shot up in some countries, recording its biggest increase in a single day.
American spring wheat, used to make bread, has risen by 22 per cent.
The rise came after big wheat exporter Kazakhstan imposed export tariffs to maintain supplies at home.
US International Food and Agriculture Trade Policy Council spokeswoman Charlotte Hebebrand explained the reasons behind the price rise.
“You’ve got tremendous population growth in the world, and in addition we’re seeing a very large income growth as well,” she said.
“So if you take those two factors, we’re really talking about a doubling of world food demand by 2050.
“On top of that you put biofuels. So there you have created essentially a new demand for agricultural commodities just when the food demand is also very high.”
Do you relize how much effort and expense goes into making strictly 100% kosher products? The people who make them and sell them also have to live and afford things. The rent,fuel and cost of supplies from the wholesalers and farmers also has risen. Many of us cannot afford everything we want (or need). Buy less new clothing,don’t go to the bungalow colony,don’t make a lavish simcho. Save the money for the necessary needs. You don’t have to eat matzo everyday every meal. Learn to look for other,less expensive and simpler meals.
TO # 1 YOU WILL BE OUT OF BUSINESS BEFORE YOU KNOW WHAT HIT YOU
Fortunitly in my family we are not big matzo eaters. Actually, I always have left over boxes.
Now oberlander rainbow cakes thats another story.
And “SHUCKS” somebody always takes all the choclate tops.
No wonder matzah is called “LECHEM ONI” . After I buy 20 lbs. this year, my wallet will surely be afflicted!! Chag Kosher V’sameach to all.
In all honesty, I feel bad for this lady. But, the problem is essentially that there are rising costs everywhere across the board and the manufactures have to pass along the rise in costs to the consumers. The Jewish and Kosher Consumer is not exempt from this rise in costs.
The problem is nationwide as a result of numerous factors, and while this is not the forum to raise them, as a matter of practicality there’s not a whole lot that can be done about it other than to spend less in one area so as to spend more in another.
Where is the Kol Koray to put pressure on these bakeries to take just a little less profit and enable the general population to afford matzos?
Why the need for all these Matzo food drives which increase each year? Just tell these businessmen to show compassion for fellow yidden and take a slightly less profit this year. Don’t they have emunah in Borei Olam that their needs will be taken care of?
I pity any organization that sends me a shnorr brief for matzoh drives this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unfortunately this is how things go and have gone for centuries. Call it inflation, call it whatever you want. In the 20’s you could buy a whole lot of different things for a PENNY. According to a report I recently read, the penny is basically worthless and not only that but it costs the government 2 cents to make a penny. If you can’t afford it, 1) buy only what you NEED (what our parents did) or 2) make some sacrifices even if you don’t want to (ie making Pesach like you always used to). If your income didn’t change, your lifestyle will. Unfortunately this is how things go and have gone forever. For an average frum, small family, $100,000 a year income is standard if you count in tuition, food costs etc. Gedolim can’t help this. Ben Bernake can’t help this. Only Hashem can help by bringing Moshiach.
#13
Why? I’ll get the money sponsered and put some boys to work-it’s a good kosher ‘outlet’. It will have a great schedule: bake matzo, lunch, ah shtikle learning, back to bake, minchah, a shiur on halacha, supper, a good basketball game(hey maybe Lipa will come give a concert one night.)
I’m sure I’ll get some rabbonim to back me. I’m killing to problems with one solution
anyone care to join?
Pardon me for the repition, but for the Ashkenazim in the crowd, why can’t the gedolim matir kitniyot?
It will allow for so many more foods that are nutritious and less expensive.
tell your kids, to stay off the matzohs and eat beef instead
to #17…see posts #7,9,12..also ow much is “a little less profit” do you know exactly how much profit is made after taking into cionsideration #7,9,12 that you should be able to advise ..?
could YW verify need and post name and address of an organization to send contributions to ,to be earmarked for above need?
if the wheat is “rising” does it become now chometz?
As local grocer we recive letters of price increases all the time & one of the reasons they write are “rabbinical supervision” why is that?
Are matzoh prices really out of control? Yes the price per pound goes up every year, but so does everything else!
At least with Matzoh we get sechar mitzvah and a guarantee that whatever we spend for shabbos & yom tov we will get back. What can be better?
one of the gerer rebbes threatend that if the price of spudiks will keep on rising he will wear a straw hat!!!
To #1
Re: Matzo Gemach idea
Great Idea
Just watch out. Before you know it you’ll end up like the “GOWN GEMACHS” just charging a nominal fee to “cover costs” ($250-$500 some “gemachs”)
It sure isnt “the poor mans bread”
#29
Do they make straw streimeluch? Good be a new market niche!
Flatbusher (#17) Their revenue is seasonal but they do have costs all year; rent/mortgage, insurance, utilities, taxes (yes some of them do pay taxes) plus they pay for the wheat/flour in advance, coal and wood.
#30
nope. i’m true to my word.
and hey, you never know, if so many people come to the gemach for matzo, the other bakeries will cheaper the price do to the pressure.
whats up welcome to the real world of the yiden!!
Now we know why Hashem gave Bnei Yisroel all the riches of Mitzrayim and the wealth of the yam before he gave them the Torah. He knew how expensive it would be to keep it
Oy vey !! ashandah !! How will I possibly afford the paysach hotel this year . I may have to go to eretz yisroel , the money I save on matzoh will pay for the air fare .
Lets get real,how about this? No more summer in the country , Florida, yarchei kallah in israel, shabbos at the agudah convention ,upscaled camps for our children , no more new leased cars …….You know all those things we really need .If sacrifice is needed Mitzvahs first !! I think we all get the message (my self included) Fargein the matzoh bakery to make his living .. Hashem will give you yours . And to concerned in Brooklyn and others like you who really are struggling , may Hashem bless you all with all you need so that you never have to worry about being able to this and other mitzvos.
sruly613, that’s pretty funny. Regular bread is now more of a lechem oni than shmura matzoh, which is priced as a luxury food.
If a pound of (chometz) rye bread is $1-$1.25, obviously the cost of the flour is only a small fraction of the price maybe $0.30 (30 cents) maximum. (Think of the labor at all stages – planting, gathering, threshing, shleping, shipping, then the energy cost of baking, transportation, then distribution costs, and profits).
So, similarly for shemura matzoh the cost of the flour is only a small fraction of the $15 price. almost certainly less than a $0.50 (50 cent) per pound. I see no way to attribute a significant increase in price to higher wheat costs over last year (unless they mean to maintain the 400% markup = 80% profit margin)!
It’s not for me to pasken, if one can’t afford hand shmura matzohs for all of yom tov – the chazal “asey shabatcha chol v’al titzarech labri’os” (make your shabbos like a weekday but don’t come on to the community) comes to mind.
Probably more relevant – for the family memebers who want to be machmir at the wage-earners expense, despite requests otherwise – sounds compareable to “seudah sheino maspekes l’balah”(taking from someone who can’t afford to give).
In conflicts between between bein adom l’chaverior and bein adom l’makon – a rov should be consulted, but we surely have to consider our family and community along with our zrizus for hiddurim such as using hand shemura matzoh.
Flatbusher,
Seasonal usually refers to when an entity makes profit, not when it is engaged in preparing to make profit.
The Six Flags Safari is also seasonal (see their advertisements for “seasonal workers”) and yet there is involved activity all year long related to upkeep, maintenance, preparation and expenses.
About 15 years ago my aunt told my mother that on Pesach she encouraged my cousins to eat steak instead of matza because it is so much cheaper.
My parent both work full time. They pay a mortgage, utilities, tuition for 4 children and other ordinary expenses. Our Pesach menu consists of meat, chicken, fish, matza, wine, grape juice, seltzer eggs, apple/orange juice, fruits and vegetables. We do not buy any processed foods or bakery goods (except for lady finger for the grandchildren and 2-4 boxes of macaroons).
What should we cut out? Should we not buy shoes, socks, tights and the like for those who need them?
My mother hasn’t gotten anything other than snoods and stockings for yom tov for a while.
We do not have Tomchei Shabbos or the like, B”H. We are very grateful that we don’t need it!
Where is the Simchas Yom Tov? And if my parents are struggling, what about many other people we know?
a hotel for Pesach actually sounds better with all this kvetching, but VAT about the VAT?
Now we have the “Matzo Price Crisis”!
#1 Sounds like a great idea, and we should try to make this happen ASAP. The matzohs will be sold at cost,with a preference given to those most needy.
I would be happy to be part of it, and am willing to devote my time.
Anybody willing to participate in any way can email me at [email protected]
This is in no way intended to be a battle/boycot of for profit bakeries, but rather a L’shem Shamayim means of assisting our most needy families who are tremendously overburdened by Pessach expenses,and find it close to immpossible to pay the skyrocketing prices for this Pessach food staple. We must bear in mind that, Klal Yisroel needs to eat on Pessach too!! Helping another Yid should be our top priority,and Parnosah is Min Hashamayim.
I would like to see the very same Rabonim who signed the petition against Lipa Schmeltzer’s concert to also come out with an even stronger condemnation against the incredible prices of “Shmura Matzos”.
This is הפקעת שערים (price gouging) of the highest order.
A kollel yungerman with six-seven kids has to spend a ton of money which he doesn’t have.
The sin of הפקעת שערים was one which the Rabonim of yesteryear were very concerned with. The story goes that the famed “Nodah B’yehuda” forbade eating of fish for Shabbos, to break the monopoly of the fish price gougers.
How about a word of the Rabonim on this matter!!!
עיין ברמב”ם הלכות מכירה פרק י”ד הל’ ו’ וכל המפקיע שערים……. הרי זה כמלוי בריבית”
עיין בבא מציעא (ע:) שכסף של מלוי בריבית לבסוף
הולך לטמיון
עיין בספר שבט הלוי ח”ד או”ח סימן א’ “בענין הפקעת שערים ולאו דאונאה, הנה לצערינו כל אחד רוצה להתעשר במה שהוא מעלה המחירים ומאנה את חבירו ועובר בכל מקום ובכל צעד על לאו דלא תונו”
ועוד ועוד………….………….
to #46 rogatcover assis. see #7,9, 12 A ROGOATCHOVER YOU ARE NOT, NOT EVEN ASSISTANT…among other refutations mentioned above ..one can eat machine matzohs
#46, Rabonim can’t control the price of wheat and labor by issuing condemnations.
GET REAL! THE MATZA BAKERIES SPEND MORE MONEY ON BOXES AND WOOD THAN ON WHEAT AND WATER!!!
This is pure genaiva everybody is aware that merchants who wanted yoshon flour locked in their price and reserved flour Rosh hashana time. Raise prices when necessary stop making phony excuses to rip off the klall
***FYI*** FLOUR HAS DOUBLED IN PRICE LAST WEEK!
DO ANY OF THE READERS HAVE A CLUE? MAYBE NOT! DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW MUCH IT COST TO RUN A BAKAREY? BEFORE YOU SHOOT OFF AND START TYPING PLEASE GET THE FACTS…
here we go again did anybody look at the price of bread lately how much it has gone up ? pasta has has doubted in price . milk has gone up by 50 percent . ect . ect. The price of matza went up almost the regular yearly increase . If anyone knows about the price of wheat it has more then tripled . look for bakerey items to go up now and after Pesach
YES THE PRICE OF WHEAT HAS SKYROCKETED AND THE COST OF RUNNING A BAKERY IS TREMENDOUS BUT ASK ANY DISTRIBUTOR IT”S TRUE THEY LOCKED IN THEIR PRICE FOR YOSHON FLOUR * MONTHS AGO IF THEY GOT A RAISE NOW THEY ARE NOT USING YOSHON FLOUR> THEY SHOULD NOT BE DECEIVING THE OLAM JUST BECAUSE THERE IS AN EXCUSE OUT THER THAT THEY CAN USE>
b”h we have mitzvos too keep yes i know things are expensive i live in england were average price of eggs are £1.45 1litre of petrol£1.06.9 you have too live with it and a freilchin pesach too everyone
And what about the price of beef?
About the only thing that hasn’t gone up is rice and beans.
If this makes you fees better – Did you know that one of the things to happen before the time of mashiach is inflation? We should do all we can to hasten his coming and we can avoid the painfull part before his coming.
#56
That’s because rice is from China and China’s China.
And beans are from Mexico, who made a deal with the U.S., that they won’t raise the price of beans under the condition they let some illegal citizens sneak into America.
The writer of the letter is 100% correct to be concerned about how she will make ends meet over Pesach. These concerns are shared by many families – even where there is a wage earner – let alone widows and single parent families. Prices have definately gone up and will continue to do so. There are however a few suggestions which I would like to make.
1. A number of years ago. I was driving a prominent local Rav down Golders Green Road in North West London. In those days the Kosher groceries were few and far between and the price of most Kosher goods were – as we say “salted and peppered”. Just at that time an Indian gentleman opened a Kosher grocery store where prices were up to 20% cheaper than in the existing stores. I asked the Rav whether there was any Halachic problem in shopping in the new store. He replied that if this will help bring down prices, you have no problem in doing your shopping in this store. The store was very successful and a few years later another store opened, this time owned by a Shomer Shabbos. My wife went into this store on its first day and admitted that she frequented the Indian’s shop. The new store owner promised to match the prices of the Indian’s store and from that day on we never went back to the Indian’s store. Since then numerous Kosher grocery stores have opened in North West London, all have the goods prices reasonably. Some of them also open Pesach stores. There are also others who jump on the band waggon and open special Pesach stores, although they are not in the grocery business throughout the year. The same Rav who I mentioned also gave me a P’sak with regard to Arba Minim, that one should frequent the same Arba Minim Center every year, even though the owner may noy necessarily notice if you do not buy at his place this year. I am happy to give my Pesach business to the same store as gets my business through the year. But I want something in return. Perhaps he can give “loyalty points” or something similar during the year which can be redeemed for a discount at Pesach.
2. In the same way as we are expecting rulings from our Gedolim on many things (e.g. concerts) I wouls like a ruling that would require the Pesach grocery stores to reduce their mark-ups over Pesach on ALL goods. Yes, everyone will benefit, even those who do not need a discount. But such a move would, I believe, benefit the stores as it would bring in many customers who, instead, use the major supermarkets to buy their Pesach goods.
3. One sees many customers walking away from the grocery stores with laden trollys with enough in the trolly to last for a month of Pesachs. If one wants to watch ones pennies, go back to the days when not everything under the sun was available with a Pesach Hechsher and be selective with what you buy – without spoiling Oneg Yom Tov in any way. It is possible. Whilst on that subject, if one has the possibility for storage, put away any unused goods for next year (check “best before” dates first) particularly if you have issues with the cost of Pesach goods.
4. Finally, let the community investigate the setting up of a “thrift shop” system for those in learning or on low incomes. This would definately not mean the opening of special G’mach type stores where people would not want to shop becase of the “stigma” of being labelled as poor and unfortunates, but would allow those who are eligible to sign up to a scheme (under the strict
supervision of askonim answerable to local Rabbonim). This would allow members of the scheme to make purchases on account in local stores using a special store card. They would then pay at the end of the month and would get a discount which would be paid over to the store by the Tzedokoh specially set up to run this “Thrift Shop” system. So that no one should get the idea that such a scheme would be “hefker” and lead to those on the scheme buying goods for othere or buying unnecessary expensive goods, inappropriate for their situation, the vaad of the scheme would be authorised to check the invoices for the members and make adjustents to the disciount where required.
After all that, can I wish all on YW a Kosher – and inexpensive – Pesach.
“Making pesach” is a tremendous expense. And, every time I drop $100 at the grocery, I think about those who cannot afford to do that. We have cut back drastically on the amount of hand shmurah matzoh we use; we only purchase enough for the sedorim. As for other goods, we think twice before purchasing the “kosher l’pesach” prepared food (a cake, or cookies). My thought as I hold a box is, “Do I need this $5 cake, or can that money better go to ma’os chittin?” Usually, the money goes to the rabbi for distribution. Eggs, potatoes, vegetables – it seems that we can go crazy trying to compensate that we cannot have chometz for a week. Nebach – matzoh and eggs are fine for breakfast; a piece of gefilte fish and cheese for lunch; and yom tov left-overs for dinner during chol ha’moed.
Here’s a personal challenge: let’s all, before we bring our cart to the cashier, remove 20% of the items from our cart, and give that to ma’os chittin.
Go on a diet if the foods cost too much. Don’t buy the unnecessary junk food. Use non-shmura for the non-seder meals. Use machine matzohs,(YES-there are very kosher shmurah matzohs!)
reminder again and again one can eat machine matzoh or the shmurah coming from yisroel is 1/2 price, otherwise all nesesties are same price…fruits veg,milk products, meat… now most people whether they can afford or not buy pesach cakes chocolate etc etc.. then cry pesach is so expensive. Lots of families have married children come over, and quite a lot from out of town which adds tremendous expense and cant afford it ..but that does’nt make pesach more expensive price wise
How about all those who will be taking expensive vacations over Pesach at hotels and resorts giving, say, 5% to a fund to help those who find Pesach a genuine strain on their pockets.
To jent1150:
On February 26, 2008 @ 9:59 am you wrote:
“now before any smart alec starts ranting why the “rabbomim” dont put a ban on shmurah matzohs like some ignoramas mentioned on the shmeltzer episode postings “the node b’yehuda l’gaby fish on shaboss”
I never mentioned banning “Hand Shmura Matzoh”. All I said was that the Rabonim should condemn the “high” price of “Hand Shmura Matzoh”. I brought down the story about that the famed “Nodah B’yehuda” forbade eating of fish for Shabbos, to break the monopoly of the fish price gougers, only to emphasize the severity of הפקעת שערים (price gouging).
Also, you have to be careful with your words. You used the word “ignoramus”. You should think thrice before using words of this sort. (And by the way you misspelled “ignoramas”. The correct spelling is “ignoramus”).
Your vehemence could be excused that it is hopefully caused by the fire of Torah ואמר רבא: האי צורבא מרבנן דרתח – אורייתא הוא דקא מרתחא לי (תענית ד)
You also point out that it is a “Mogan avrohom Hilchos Shabos 242 seif 1”. If you already want to go to the source, then the source is a “Tzemach Zedek 28”. שו”ת צמח צדק (הקדמון) סימן כח
On February 26, 2008 @ 9:03 pm you wrote:
“ROGOATCHOVER YOU ARE NOT, NOT EVEN ASSISTANT”
For this personal attack I am judging
you “L’kaf Zechus” as you obviously know the greatness of the Ragachover Gaon ZT”L, and probably thought that I am implying that I am in that league. Please lighten up, on the Internet everybody is using all sorts of catchy names, (and this obviously caught your attention as well) and doing so is also acceptable “Halachakly”
Lastly, why can’t discussions take place in a civilized manner?
to #66…if somebody cant afford shmurah matzoh he can eat machine matzoh. now about price gouging on shnmurah matzoh…to masnufacture it is a tremendes undertaking involving more than half year work, alot of workers, high pay etc etc so until you didnt make chesbon of what involves $$$ wise and decent profit they are entitled to, one shouldnt jump “why the rabbonim dont…” the reyoh from fish is no reya as per reason above (machine matzoh, also catching fish does not involve intacacies as producing hand matzoh)also fish is not a chiav d’oirase or, d’rabonon only minhug unlike matzoh on the other hand one can eat machine matzoh. now about aggressive tone… when it inolves attacking rabbonim like a big chelik of the posts in the “lipa” episode and why not kol korah against shmurah matzoh is b’gader “b’mokom sheyesh chilil h’shaem ein cholkin koved…”so thats why i sound more aggresive. my spelling im happy with it as long as understood so even ,lets say, i put I before E even after C is good for me(actually dont have seretary to go over,and doing my business in between). also the din of hafkius sheurim doesnt apply to shmurah matzos it applies to basic staples which are the same price pesach as whole year (see #64). (have no reyah only my opinion which doesn’t count,so if im not right let me know .yasher kodchachem in advance. also if you can post where the n’odah b’yehuda is like to see it (oisiois machkimos)
# 67: I apologize in advance for what I am going to say. How can you tell someone that if they can’t afford Shmurah Matza they should eat machine matza! You can’t tell someone to be mevater their minhagim!
There is a story told about a gadol in a previous generation, I don’t remember who he was. Someone came before Pesach and asked him if it was permissible to use milk for the arba koisos. This gadol went out and came back with a large amount of money for this man. He was asked why he gave so much. His answer was: if he asked about milk it means that not only doesn’t he have money for wine, he also has no money for chicken or meat. Therefore, I gave him enough money to buy everything for Pesach.
Let us all daven that we should all have enough to but whatever we need for both Purim and Pesach!
#67 jent1150
The truth is that I wrote it in a rush, thinking that it was a “Nodah B’yehudah”. But then you pointed out that it was a “Mogen Avrohom” (Siman Reish Mem Beis). Then I pointed out that the source of the “Mogen Avrohom” is a “Tzemach Tzedek – Hakadmon – 28. But you are most likely aware that appears in many Tzshuvos Seforim.
Also, you are also most likely aware of the following “Mogen Avrohom”
מגן אברהם סימן קנו
ואם שמע דין ונראה לו שהלכה כך מותר לאמרו בשם אדם גדול כי היכי דליקבלי מיניה [עירובין דף נ”א ופסחים דף קי”ב
Editors Note: Regarding your question, an answer was sent to your email address.
#69..yasher koach but didnt get anything…have mail on spm control so have to put your address on list
#27..see #64,67..”the rest of the year”is about 5-6 mo..which they are also busy aranging myriad of hachons for…again if you dont know how a certain business operates dont give such bright ideas…
to #68..did we say he should eat machine matzoh…but if he is complaining it too expensive cant afford it in this case (see #64, 67 )doesnt go into mafkia sheurim, “why dont the rabbonim this or why dont the rabbonim that”. now i dont know if i’m right about this sevorah..but these guys who start bafalling “rabbonim this rabbonim that” didnt first meayin in halacha either. so lets go back to #68 “you cant tell some one…” but you cant tell someone who has major undertaking EG:hand matzoh to give cheaper because one has the minhug and cant afford it…. the parable you mention is from hagon hakadosh reb chaim (not sure). now again what has this parable to do with our disussion unless you just wants to mention interesting story l’chizik.. now lets not beat around the bush,(that includes our pres. ,zolzein gezunt, all these guys who start ranting rabbodnim this rabbonim that they dont mean subject on hand “tachas asher lo uvdedtu” there is the saying what is the “UNDER” laying factor that that borought you to “asher lo uvadeto” does the ranting …”ayzy apiko..hamvze talmide chachomim….” some to bigger degree some to smaller degree according how much he is influenced from eisoves avir..
# 72: The point of telling over this particular story isn’t because it is “nice”.
The point is that this Adom Gadol could have handed told him milk is permissible for Arba Koisos and sent the poor man on his way. Instead he made sure that he could be mekayaim the mitzvos of Pesach in the way that was correct!
How does anyone have the right to tell someone how to be mekayaim the mitzvos of Pesach? It shouldn’t be a luxury to keep the minhagim that you grew up with in your parents home!!
What is Maos Chittim all about if not making sure that everyone has the matza thatthey need for Pesach? Maos Chttim is not a ‘hiddur mitzvha’. It is a basic minhag that is a part of Hilchos Pesach!
to #73,#68…we dont have anymore “kioch” to repeat …what you say has nothing to do with the shmurah matzoh manufacturer so that he should give cheaper the shmureh matzoh see #64,67, 72. also, please practice “reading comprihension”. “muous chitim” doesnt pertain to the manufaturer..it means me, you, everybody should give to their wherever he belongs to or wants to give “mous chitim” and the one in charge gives it to the needy to buy tzorchai yom tov…
jent1150: I never commented on the matza manufacturers of the prices of matza. It would not be appropriate for me to judge them.
My comments have only bee to those who want to tell people what their ‘tzotchei yom tov’ should be.
So, please, get off my case!!!!!
And with that I will end my participation in this discussion! I wish everyone a ‘freilichen Purim’ and a chag kosher v’sameach’.
#75…please.. dont scare me like that..’yetzed vais eich soin take nisht vos de redtzt”
BE HAPPY THAT OUR GOVERMENT ALLOWS US TO BAKE AND SELL MATZOHS WITHOUT ANY RESTRICTIONS!!!