In an interview with Kol Berama Radio, Yahadut HaTorah’s Moshe Gafne expressed his opposition to chareidim being inducted into national service programs as an alternative to military service, warning “they want to turn us into chilonim (non-frum).”

Speaking on the 8-10 Show with Moti Lavi on Tuesday, 27 Kislev 5773, Gafne warned of the growing “new chareidi’ camp, which he feels threatens authentic chareidi yiddishkheit. Gafne feels that this election poses unique threats to the torah tzibur, and is opposed to the ongoing process that threatens talmidim and avreichim who dedicate their life to the study of torah.

He explains he works with his colleague MK Uri Maklev, literally on a daily basis, for they understand “there is a gezeira against us, the chareidi tzibur” and they understand the need to act. He boasts that in the past, they succeeded in thwarting legislation aimed at inducting talmidei yeshivos into the military, and it is imperative that the tzibur understands the pressing issues facing the chareidi tzibur ahead of the upcoming general election.

Regarding the petition to the Supreme Court by Yair Lapid’s Yesh Atid Party, Gafne explains “he doesn’t have a clue what he is talking about”.

“It’s natural, when one such as Lapid speaks, the media provides coverage. We remain opposed to the various options, including national service, and this fellow, Lapid, is running to the Supreme Court. He does not know the ages, the previous agreements, the decision to permit chareidim to learn for at least five years, but he challenges the cabinet decision nevertheless.”

“Bottom line, I am opposed to the programs, the IDF service and/or national service. One who declares that torah study is his profession must act accordingly, and his place is not in the army or national service. Even a talmid called to an induction center, we see the military does not know how to address him in this situation.”

Lavi:

Didn’t you say that those who do not learn should serve in the army?

Gafne:

My job is to concern myself with those who learn full time. That is my job. Anything that is not in this category is not my job. Therefore, my response to your question is anyone learning fulltime must be protected and this is the bottom line. Without him and those like him there is not merit to anything else. The world stands on their shoulders.

They want to turn us all into chilonim. This includes the learners and those in the workplace, and that is why I am opposed. I am opposed to the government decision of Sunday made without our knowledge to permit 1,300 talmidim to enter civilian service. They want us to be like them, to look like them.

It is our job to preserve the pure פח שמן, to make certain the vile of pure oil remains pure, and the talmidim must continue learning. Nothing has changed regarding my hashkafa and my words are not related to electioneering. This is a battle for religion and lifestyle. I know that there are growing numbers in kibbutzim, where chareidim are foreign – with more people coming to the correct conclusion.

The battle is for everything. It’s all or nothing. You must understand. This kind of struggle demands everyone to report to assist, to take part.

Lavi:

After 70 years with an agreement permitting torah study, perhaps you failed — you and your colleagues?

Gafne:

The prime minister asked us to sit on the committee with Kadima, the party that was spearheading the committee. We refused, unwilling to compromise at all regarding bnei yeshivos, because this was our instructions from Rav Shteinman. This was the position of Agudas Yisrael too, and I spoke with Rav Eli Yishai and Rav Ovadia agreed, sharing this position. We knew there would not be a law but nevertheless, this is what the gedolim decided and we did not sit on the committee.

With all due respect to Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, the coalition agreement included his word that the talmidei yeshiva would continue and he simply did not remain true to his word. So if you ask me about failure, I don’t have the tools to evaluate this but I do know we acted as we were compelled to. You speak about our failures but fail to ask about successes.

Lavi:

What do you say about Pinchasi’s remarks favoring Yacimovich over Netanyahu?

Gafne:

If you are asking me, I don’t rule out working with Yacimovich. I would prefer Litzman. Listen, we are open and realize we will have to do our best with whoever is elected. The matter of talmidei yeshivos will be the top priority but there are other issues too. If you ask me if I would support Tzipi Livni, the response is no, but Yacimovich is a different story. Livni is obsessed with speaking of the problem with the talmidei yeshivos. There is no possibility to work with her and it is my hope that she does not get into power.

Regarding the upcoming elections, Gafne reflects back to 1992 when they tried to raise the Knesset threshold to 2.5% and following their outcry, it was lowered to 1.5%. Nevertheless, the [right-wing] Techiya Party got between 1-1.5% was wiped off the political map, receiving 25,000 votes. 35,000 votes were lost, simply trashed and while the right-wing should have risen to power. The election was lost due to the decision to raise the threshold to keep the frum and right-wing out. Levinger also lost votes. 60,000 votes that should have gone to the right-wing, but were lost and the right-wing lost and this was followed by Rabin coming to power, the Oslo Agreement and the rest is history. The right wines and complains today, but in reality, the right brought it upon itself since the Techiya and NRP parties fought to increase the minimum threshold.

Lavi:

Perhaps your myopic approach, being obsessed with your one or two issues has led to the break away, the new chareidim, those with a broader view? Your voters are also concerned regarding internal problems within the community.

Gafne:

To blame with this too is absurd. I have addressed many internal issues, a long list. I work to make sure talmidim are accepted to mosdos, tax breaks and many many issues. There is no one who has turned to me with a legitimate problem who was ignored.

Lavi:

Let’s look at the broader picture. There is a new reality today, new issues that must be addressed. There are 1,300 chareidim who wish to enter civilian service. Perhaps you have to address this.

Gafne:

No, there is no new chareidim and no new generation. There have always been people like this but the heart of chareidi Jewry has been the lomdei torah. Those on the side have always existed – some always worked. Those who learn fulltime are the ones I am most concerned with, the one I am responsible to look out for, as it is today. There have always been and will continue to be those who work and do other things.

Regarding those who do not fit the mold, the chareidim who are not the learners, I have already stated we take care of them as much as we can too. I don’t plan to get into details here on the radio. This is done privately.

Please permit me to boast our successes, unprecedented. The government last year planned to cut 350 million NIS was yeshivos and we thwarted that. Much of what is done does not come back to credit us for I know the chilonim are watching and the less said the better to avoid irritating them. What the Housing Ministry failed to do because of Yisrael Beitenu I managed to do as head of the Finance Committee for example. Like I said, much is done quietly and there has been much success for all shomer shabbos Jews, not just the chareidim.

(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)