This is an open letter to the Peleg Yerushalmi.
I have never before written a letter to any publication in the past.
My reason for this public letter, is because I have no way to contact you.
You see, on Monday evening, I was stuck in traffic because of your stupid protests, and missed my return flight to NY. But not only myself, but my husband and 5 children. We had just spent a beautiful Sukkos in the Shaarie Chesed neighborhood of Yerushalayim, and were in a cab heading to the airport when you decided to block the street.
I want to let you know, that I am not Moichel you, neither is my husband.
My husband missed another day of work, including important meetings.
My children missed school.
You can never repay me. You don’t even care. because you are doing this “leshem shomayim” (not).
Our family is far from Zionist, Dati Leumi etc. We are a Yeshivish family, with my husband a hard working successful Baal Habas, who donates generously to Mosdos in Eretz Yisroel.
I never realized what these protests accomplished until last night.
Thanks Peleg.
E.S. and family, Brooklyn, NY
NOTE: The views expressed here are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent or reflect the views of YWN.
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40 Responses
Who from peleg yerushalmi is going to see this letter on yeshiva world? This is not an open letter to them, it is a letter complaining about them. Aren’t there more appropriate venues for this letter (if at all)?
Wow, Ms. E.S.
I feel for you. You must have really suffered. You lost a day of work, had to stay night in crummy airport, lost a day of school of valuable Torah education.
This is almost as bad as being thrown into prison for daring to learn Torah instead of join assimilating army. Your kids lost a day of school? These bochurim lost months of yeshiva, and if draft becomes norm, hundreds will lose years of yeshiva study, sleeping in field tents with female soldiers instead. Your husband lost a day of work? What about husbands thrown away from their families into prison or army. You stayed a night in an airport? These guys were forced to spend months in garbage and urine filled prisions with rapists, murderers, and drug dealers, becoming literal slaves of more aggressive criminals, traded as currency. I wonder how much and how these poor bochurim were abused. No, I don’t want to wonder; it makes me sick.
So yea, let me play you a wonderful symphony of pity on my world’s tiniest violin.
You egotistic dummy.
Your letter should have been to the instigator of these confrontrontations and you should demand payment for any extra expense incurred {including any lost wages}. this is gezeilah….F
Furthermore , why are these bochurim not behind their gemoros , rather than creating havoc , bitul torah , and a chilul hashem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
why is it relevant that you are far from zionist or daati leumi , if you were then it would be okay to prevent you from getting on your flight, maybe your husband should support mosdos that teach derech eretz is kadmah ltorah, the problem is that these kids have nothing to do all day they should be working , how many should actually be siting in the beis medresh all day probably half cant even understand a daf gemera, so let them go to the army or get a job
and they are complaining that the police pointed a pistol to them.
peleg doesnt care
they are reshoim who love to suck the blood of others
all in the name of lsheim shomayim
this will end when someone will get very hurt or killed rl
Efifromhill. Your the ignoramus here. Your logic is so twisted but you wont know it even if it hit you in your pea sized brain. You finally made all the true dummies smart with your convoluted comments. I truly feel for you. Vnomar amen!
These useless excuses for “talmidim” and the rabbonim and askanim who encourage them to engage in such disruption of the lives of the tzibur have no shame and will not be deterred unless the police begin to push back forcefully. A day or two in jail is not enough.
I came late to a doctor’s appointment and I know other people missed picking up their kids and others lost time from work.
Peleg is bad; and the leaders are is not my idea of a positive leader. I think the boys can not think and are taught to act like animals.
I agree with Arib.
These kids are bored .this is their fun and excitement.
Most should be working and learning. The system is broken and sadly the leaders are leading the community down the wrong path.
Even the people who argue against the army aren’t honest.
That guy above who wrote that yeshiva boys will be forced to sleep with female soldiers is just a liar and a he knows it himself.
The protesters should be forced to be in a prison for a few months with arabs.
Maybe this will teach them to stop this nonsense.
i think if efifromhill is an example of what torah education produces, then it would be time for a different religion. my grandnephew is deployed to the gaza border for 17 days at a time. i think he is not sleeping in a tent with female soldiers. such lack of hakarat hatov is a remarkable indictment of whatever system produced our all-knowing observer.
The letter is right on thr money! You are 100% right. This is not the way of the Torah! This is nezek of the highest order. This is not the way for Torah’dik Yidden to perform at any time. I would venture to think that these boys behave in a similar way at home, in their daily lives, too! It is shameful.
As far as efifromhill’s reply, shame on you!
With all due respect, I think the author is having a bad day. While I am far from a member of Peleg (in my community most serve in the army), protests like this only happens because the issues here are very real. The inconvenience and loss of missing your flight is a small issue for the locals.
Yerushalayim is not just a nice place to visit, and our home as a people. It’s primarily a place where people live all year. And those people are amazingly generous and understanding during the chagim when they are suddenly overrun by tourists and visitors.
As a visitor, please remember that this country isn’t just for visiting. It’s where we live. And yes, sometimes this gets in the way of your plans. Even when you disagree with the politics of the situation.
Wow! You sound like a very self-centered person. I will be the first to admit that I personally don’t feel too strongly about the cause that these people are protesting for, but that doesn’t mean that it is not a valid cause and that protesting is not a valid response to the actions of the Israeli government.
We can all argue whether they are right to protest, but your letter reeks of egotism and self-centeredness.
You also sound very immature IMHO:
“I want to let you know, that I am not Moichel you, neither is my husband.” and “You can never repay me. You don’t even care. because you are doing this “leshem shomayim” (not).”
Without getting into whether IDF is good for Jews or bad for Jews, or whether, during field operations, male and female soldiers occasionally sleep in same tents (they do), the point is that clearly the draft is a very serious issue that affects hundreds of thousands, and it is a very hot issue. To take your missing the flight (probably left last minute anyway) and make it more important than an issue that affects so many is egotistical.
And yes, I agree that if the protestors did “nezek of the highest order [sic]” then it would not be justified no matter how noble the reason. However you have to show me a single posek that would agree that protesting on street, and causing traffic delays, causing you to be late to your airport and missing the flight is considered real nezek.
Your a Yeshivish family? How dare you call this “stupid protest” you sound Zionist to me!!
Who cares if your husbands successful? Why do you feel the need to mention that he supports Mosdos in Eretz Yisroel?
Maybe YOU need to ask Mechila from the Gedolim behind these protests. I’m wondering how much school your children already missed for this Big trip To EY without blaming it on the protests. How many trips do u take them out of school for during the year.
Get your act together please.
The disabled are also protesting, blocking the streets and highways ,and they are only doing it for money!At least, the yeshiva students are protesting the draft that is trying to force them to register for the anti-religious, secular- coercion IDF.
I think we’re all getting worked up let’s take a deep breath!!! in….out…..in……out…. ok now we can talk respectfully.
Even if one agrees with the psak of Peleg’s leader (regarding not registering for the draft), the blocking of roads is a useless tactic. It does not explain their halachic position, and it does not create sympathy because it doesn’t broadcast any constructive message. For these reasons, it will not effect any policy changes. All it does is hurt people and cause chillul Hashem. It’s very stupid.
I understand and sympathize with the family’s frustration and would probably share it if I were in a similar situation (though I don’t understand why the taxi company didn’t keep updated on such situations and look for alternative routes). Still I suggest that they — and everyone else in this discussion — ask themselves if there were some issue that they would consider worthy of such demonstrations. To give a few examples, imagine that MK Meirav Michaeli were to get her way and the government were to start taking all children away from their parents and raising them in government facilities according to prevailing government values. Or if the Bagatz were to rule in the name of social and religious equality that all Israeli schools are required to give equal prominence to Xtian crosses and Muslim crescent moons along with Jewish stars (don’t think it can’t happen here). I suspect everyone can come up with a red line that would justify demonstrations.
Of course they have a right to protest for their rights and its self-centered to deny them that right due to a personal inconvenience.
When it comes though to blocking major intersections backing up traffic that is already congested thus stopping school buses from getting through and emergency services, that’s another story. Little children having to walk home alone, ambulances not arriving on time etc..
I assume the answer from all the big kanoim who frequent this web site is we are protesting a danger to the neshama, so the guf is secondary (or something along those lines).
For those of you who are not familiar with the situation, the bochurim are NOT getting arrested for refusing to go to the army. They are getting arrested for not reporting to the recruitment office where they can get a ptur. They are not reporting there because they do not want to legitimize the process. Whether that’s a worthwhile cause is debatable, but to cause dangerous situations for principles rather than for an actual spiritually dangerous situation is WRONG.
To brisker35: Maybe YOU need to ask Mechila from the Gedolim behind these protests.”
I will tell you something and I dont care who gets offended. The Gedolim who are behind these protests need to ask EVERYONE for mechila. Not us of them. They have stolen something which they can never return, and that is time. Especially since these so Gedolim dont even protest; they just send out these feeble minded, ignorant stupid bochurim, who don’t learn a bloody word anyway. Oh, its bain hazmanin? So, that absolves them of learning? These protests are all a big joke to them. These leaders are guilty of treason, and as such, should be tossed in jail for a very long time. So mr. brisker, go stick your head back in the ground.
just one question for everyone from new York who’s complaining about the protests causing an inconvenience…..how many times have you double parked and caused other to have to go around you? two wrongs don’t make it right but do some self inspection first….second nobody can change your path except you,they may be vessels to do that but ultimately g-d wanted you to be late or miss that flight so instead of complaining maybe start searching as to why this was meant to be….considering your a “yeshivish family”,and went to Israel for succos, I would like to think you have at least a little faith in g-ds plan.
To efifromhill and some other who wrote with the same agenda:
What you wrote is pure propanda, far from reality.
These boys are in jail not for learning Torah. There are thousands of others who are sitting and learning Torah and nobody throws them to jail. These boys are in jail because they refused to go to the army, show their documents to prove they are in Yeshiva, and go back to their Gemora. This is a POLITICAL fight, fought over the back of young boys, and I’m deeply sorry for them (especially for Kaplinsky, who is a yossom and Rav Shmuel Oyerbach Shlita is basically his substitute father).
The boys went to an army jail. That, in turn, means the second part of your comment is pure imagination as well. Soldiers go to army jail for things as stupid as not organizing their room well, not filing the right document and so on. Army jail is not full of murders, in fact – if someone is a murderer he’ll be tried in a civil court and go to a civil jail, army jail is full with soldiers that didn’t exactly obeyed their commanders.
And if, while awaiting trial in the detention facility – where they are being jailed with real criminals – anything happened to them, it’s on the shouldeirs of the politicians who made the decision to order the boys not to go to Lishkat Giyus. I have plenty of family members who are shtygening in Yeshiva and the army dismiss them a year after year. I also have cousins who are “not misyatzvim”, and some of them do nothing in Yeshivah. And yes, when I confronted their leaders about this, the answer was “it’s still better then them going to the army”.
So as someone who lives this reality everyday – stop spreading lies. This lady is very right, the tremendous Bitul Torah that those hours-on-hours of demonstrations cause, together with the never-to-be-returned Gezel Zman is doing nothing good for those in jail.
Or as a neighbor once told us, in the times of Hitnatkut – and he is not even Charedi: we are not going to Haganot, this is against the way of Torah. Instead, we add more Limud to our day.
Maybe, if instead of punching female soldiers and losing their innocence forever those boys demonstrating would sit and learn, our sitution would be much better.
Can someone explain why are the protests in Bnei Brak? Disrupting innocent Frum peoples lives (for no reason)?
Why don’t these smart-aleks protest in the Non-Frum cities – then we will see how “brave” you are!
Just because you Shukel wildly by Shmona Esray does not give you the right to destroy peoples lives.
Never been so embarrased in my life to wear a black hat as I sat on the jerusalem light rail tonight waiting as young bored peleg yeshiva bachurim sat in front of the train aggravating the hundreds of passengers on board who were mostly chilony.
All the Gedolei Yisroel with the exception of Rabbi Aurbach have opposed these protests that just cause chillul Hashem. I hope our brothers who don’t yet have such a love for Torah realize that this group is aminority and does not reflect the views of proper Torah Jewry.
MAMASH RESHAYIM!
I find it interesting that no body ,not even kahnoim/askonim ran to any of the gedolim with a shyla about the current events happening. Whether its muttar to block traffic or spit at the police or burn garbage can etc.
The askonim always seem to bother r kanievsky about the most mundane questions like should one stay home in florida when it was reported that they are having deadly catagory 3/4 whether. But no one had the guts to go ask r kanievsky or any other gadol about the current events, where the public id. Being terrorized by ladigayers in the name of torah and dass tora.
To: realistic guy.
….ultimately g-d wanted you to be late or miss that flight so instead of complaining maybe start searching as to why this was meant to be….considering your a “yeshivish family”,and went to Israel for succos, I would like to think you have at least a little faith in g-ds plan.
———————————-
Its also gods plan to have everybody eligible to register for the army,so by not registering your going against gods plan.
Realisticguy:
You are a true disgrace. G-d’s plan is not an excuse for people doing damage to others. It is sheer chutzpah to justify “Torah dedicated” adults committing acts that damage others. Whatever G-d’s plan, those who cause such wreckage and damage to others are responsible for their actions. If I beat you over the head and stole your money, would you excuse it as G-d’s plan, or would you hold me responsible?
You are not realistic, certainly not in a Torah sense.
poor lady.
you stayed in sharei chessed, why didn’t you knock on Rav Shmuel’s door and ask him to pay you the expense you incurred.
i wonder what YOU would do if YOUR son was forced into the American army, forced to eat semi-kosher food, work with pritzusdig woman, forced to be mechalel shabbos – b/c who in the world knows anything about shmiras shabbos in the non-frum army.
so b/4 you say you’re not moichel, sit down and think rationally – ‘what would i do in the same situation’.
Efifromhill – well done. someone talking sense on this forum.
it’s just they don’t like to hear it…
peleg are blood suckers, murderers, complainers, whiners, reshoim, gazlonim, bums who don’t know a blatt gemora etc. etc.
ysam: you know NOTHING about protesting and closing off the streets
you obviously have not read the reactions of the non frum newspapers – who stand in awe at the fact that the peleg stands strong for their ideals.
why did you not use WAYS
@takes2….why is that g-ds plan? maybe it’s just a test to see if we register or not…g-ds plan is that it’s there what we do with it and how we react is our own bechira…theres a difference between fate and will and they don’t contradict….im not saying it is and I’m not saying I agree with the protests…all I’m saying nobody and nothing in this world can affect anyone unless g-d decides it should be….if one believes in g-d and the Torah then that is truth…..history shows us many times when the majority of people think one way and they are dead wrong…..ramchal(mesilos yesharim) was just one instance when majority thought he was another shabtai tzvi and years later hes a staple in our torah learning…
Rav Auerbach’s father zt”l is spinning in his grave over this. He never would have endorsed this kind of meshugas.
As a “yeshivish” person- you should be moichel without hesitation.
Claiming you are not moichel and your husband also isn’t… doesn’t reflect true Torah values. It doesn’t matter whether they are wrong or right – there is a beautiful tehilla in kriyas shema al hamitta- Riboinoi shel olam hareini moichel lchol…
By forgiving others- you will benefit the most.
When one states they don’t forgive (for an inconvenience that isn’t even life altering… it wasn’t a broken engagement or a divorce or throwing your son out of school etc…. ) they’re just demonstrating what a tremendous ego they have…. do you really think HaShem works for you and will immediately strike these folks with lightning because YOU are not moichel???
Be very careful… you are treading on dangerous concepts. Withholding forgiveness is not a joke.
Coming from another woman – doesn’t matter if I’m yeshivish or not. I’m a simple Jew trying my best.
Personally I say that tefilla every single day and on the days that I struggle with people that have truly caused me life altering pain- I cry and say their name and beg HaShem to help me forgive as THEY are HIS children too.
anonymous72:
You’re missing something. The standard criteria for teshuvah and requisite mechila are known. Viduy, charata, kabala al ho’osid, etc. However, when there is retribution to be made, all is suspended until that is done. The Medrash even notes this as a problem for those who steal from a tzibbur – to whom can they compensate, and be eligible for teshuvah? This family was damaged. Aside from personal inconvenience, there was direct monetary damage. Until there is compensation, mechila is effective. And the teshuvah these thugs may do at some point in their future, if they wise up, may be similarly futile.
This lady has every right to complain about these intolerable protests that seems to have no one leading it. I wish as well still,that she would remove the never mochel clause.
But leaving that aside,one seriously has to ask why these demonstrations are not done as previous demonstrations with an organized approved demonstration with the Rabbinic presence at front and tefillot with tears.
And because these demonstrations were not done in this matter,but just done in a twisted haphazard way of pure violence,it can never be successful,and it will lead to extremely great and regretful behavior,which has already unfortunately have been seen.
I am past hearing about the whole who is right scenario.Reb Shmuel is a great man in his own right and is obviously entitled to his view.It is impossible at this moment to know if he holds of this behavior,and if I am wrong ,please tell me.
But one thing remains for sure,that if this demonstration is just one of using physical force,and not one of asking Hashem for help,as all the previously successful demonstrations always had,then these demonstrations are doomed for failure,and every means to stop it,should be done,and anyone has the right to be angered and disturbed by the actions of these young men,that act in such a dangerous way without at least davening out to Hashem in public for help.