(Click HERE for additional photos) Earlier today, police arrived in Meah Shearim to disperse a large crowd which had formed. Apparently, an Egged bus had passed through Kikar Shabbos with an inappropriate ad on its side. The ad was for “Bank Yahav”, and some people did not feel that they should be subject to seeing this.
As the bus stopped for a second in traffic, a few individuals approached the bus, and ripped the large ad off of the side of the bus
Sure enough, the police arrived in force but did have any luck in apprehending the people involved.
(YW News)
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96 Responses
Good job. Finally they did the holy work without any violence. No more tumah on the streets of kedusha.
AH!!!What a Kiddush Hashem!! When will the zionists learn their lesson?!
What’s the sense in posting this if there’s nothing we can do to stop them? We KNOW there are some people who deal with problems in a very primitive manner, and we pray for Kiddush Hashem in the world regardless of whether we hear of every foolish act done.
How long will it take for it to now become open season againt Chareidim?
COOL
Can we hire these guys for NYC ?
Pure Geneivah.
“The ad was for “Bank Yahav”, and some people did not feel that they should be subject to seeing this”. The majority of your readers have no idea what an ad for “Bank Yahav” is all about, we are in a NEW AGE when ‘people do not feel that they should be subject to seeing things’- feelings now determine our actions. Pretty sick!!
the people that do these kinds of things are unemployed do nothing who have nothing better to do with their time.
please, keep back the loshon hara and motzei shem ra
This is all about control and power. It has zero to do with frumkeit. WE control our neighborhood, WE say what is permitted there, HOW DARE you tsionim defy our wishes! It’s the exact same thing with the stone throwing. The raaya is that what they do to stop these things is always worse than the original offense. So either they are a bunch of amm ha’aratzim (I’m not dismissing that possibility,) or it’s just about power and control. Either way, they create a terrible chilul hashem each time they act.
Someone made a
very good point on the blog about the Arab guy dressing up as a Chareidi.
Unfortunatley we have many JEWS who ‘dress up’ like Chareidim. My gosh, why cant problems like these be handled in a civil manner ? Why cant we behave in a way so that we can be PROUD of who we are?
To top it all off ,read comment nos. 6…..
Sheesh!
who gave these reshoyim the rght to practice gezailah bfarheisah berabim????!!!!
As far as i am concerned this was an outright violation of halachah. A company paid god money for that ad. if anyone should find it to be offensive- no one is forcing anyone to look at it. besides there are other ways of approaching this matter which will fall ino the category of civil as opposed to these animal like behaviors.
excuse me, but I saaw the ad. I live in Yerushalayim. I did not see anything inappropriate with the ad. o.k., there was a group picture of a mixed minyan (men & women) but there was no pritzus. The bank is aimed at gov’t workers. so maybe that’s why some m.s. people got upset… I don’t know…
genaivah, are you kidding me? if someone paid good money for poison and was feeding it to your kids would you not take it away because they spent money on it? just because you don’t have the sensitivity to feel that pritzus is poison doesn’t mean that others don’t.
Meah Shearim was there way before Zionism was ever contemplated. Those that wish to tarnish the young children of Meah shearim should pay a price for it.
To all those “civil” people out there that are more concerned about ” destroying” some ad in a public domain should look a little deeper in to their souls. They obviously care very little about the sancity of the holy city of Jerusalem. They don’t see the importance of perserving kedusha for our younger generation and not exposing anyone to immoral pictures. They have been so corrupt by the evil and immoralities in this country they fail to grasp the severity of whats at stake in Eretz Yisrael. Instead of calling these people “animals”,I suggest you take a look at yourself and do a little soul searching and maybe then you will come to terms why these people feel it necessary to act the way they do. It has nothing to do with power. It has to do with standing up to the Torah and morality.
15,
Why dont you go into every newspaper store in NY and rip up the not so kosher magazines? Why dont you bomb cinemas which show pritzezdike movies? Oh, ofcourse , before I forget why dont you have someone attack every woman on the street who is not dressed in a tzniyusdik manner?? I AM ABSOLUTLY SURE THAT THERE ARE MANY WHO ARE OFFENDED ALL OF THE ABOVE.
#12 nameless
I believe this concept of invading their Makom Kadosh, has been tried to be taken care of in a civil manner, but to no avail.
That’s why they take things into their own hands.
When it comes to Kedushas Yerushalim, you need to stop thinking like a liberal which has penetrated our thinking through all the liberal propoganda. Outside of E’Y in golus these methods would be totally inappropriate.
Kudos to ajewfrommonsey (#15), providing the advert was indeed pritzusdig. If however #14 is correct, it was a “wildkeit” and therefore wrong.
Yeah, what right does anyone have to destroy a perfectly beutiful picture of an undressed zoineh plastered in the streets of Meah Shearim? I mean the holy State of Israel is a free and democratic society where anyone and everyone does, and ought to, have the absolute unabridged right, nay make that duty, to appear in public in their most basic elements.
When did our beutiful medina, a nation amongst nations, ever become a Torah theocracy? Lest we forget, the laws as interpreted by the esteemed justices of the Supreme Court of the State of Israel trump and take precedence to any purported Torah law handed down to Moses so many thousands of years ago. This is a modern country, not some antiquated religious law based rule.
Now I don’t know if this bus had such a beutiful picture for the public to enjoy and savor, but even if it didn’t kal v’chomer it should have been prized and celebrated — not destroyed and removed from public consumption.
“Sure enough, the police arrived in force but did have any luck in apprehending the people involved.”
That is until the chief of police reads YW tonight (you know that he must) and sees the pictures and arrests the suspect 😉
GOM
20,
Why would it be inappropriate if it would pose as a serious problem for our youth?? Whats the difference, the point is not to allow these things to pose as a danger for our youth.
Whoever condones this behaviour in EY, should condone it anywhere if their intentions are for our benefit!
I am sure you would try and stop an offender ANYWHERE in the world!
I hate to break it to #20 but EY is in Golus along with the rest of us. ANd yes especially in EY we have to act as if we are in golus and have gedolim weigh the chillul hashem against the pritzus of the specific ad. BTW It is a big motzei shem ra to assume that all people who live in Meah Shearim would act like this. We do not even know if the perps lived there… Maybe they were also arabs dressed up…
Yeshivish Hocker (#2) Whatever you hold about the situation there is no reason to ever knock other yidden even if they do have a different opinion. OK! You should be called Yeshivishe Knocker because you Knock other Yidden.
nameless (#18),
your comparison to newspaper stores and cinemas is ridiculous. A person can keep their small children out of those places fairly easily, but please tell me how they can prevent their children from seeing inappropriate pics on buses which drive through their neighborhood?
Also, the reason these things are not done “in a civil manner” is because the courts are anti chareidi and they wouldn’t win.
19, Yaaviv,
Ofcourse, how silly of me! Its much easier and less time consuming to rip the ad off than it is to sit down and write a letter of comlplaint to Egged or any company in a case like this requesting a compromise!
May HaShem strengthen the hands that did this deed!
#26 FillyFrum,
Hey holy brother-you are so beautifully right! I love all my Jewish brothers and sisters and there is never a reason to knock other yidden including #2 heilege reb yishivish hocker
The gemara in brochos 20b relates a story where an amora tore a red dress off a woman in the street!! I guess her tznius “STANDARDS” were not “so-stringent” and was probably H-A-L-A-C-H-A-K-I-L-L-Y permitted!!
And what about violence the gemara calls it “MESIRAS NEFESH”
קמאי הוו קא מסרי נפשייהו אקדושת השם אנן לא מסרינן נפשין אקדושת השם כי הא דרב אדא בר אהבה חזייה לההיא כותית דהות לבישא כרבלתא בשוקא סבר דבת ישראל היא קם קרעיה מינה אגלאי מילתא דכותית היא שיימוה בארבע מאה זוזי א”ל מה שמך אמרה ליה מתון אמר לה מתון מתון ארבע מאה זוזי שויא
“Meah Shearim was there way before Zionism was ever contemplated”, Now we can talk real issues, meah shearim began with families who had no room in the irha’atika, found it ‘overheated’ in many ways and moved to meah shearim. Rav sonnenfeld used to walk on shabbos even in heavy snow to do a bris in the ‘new neighvorhood of meah shearim’. The new YISHUV, it was called a yishuv, settlement outside of the gate, in occupied terrority, vaas mere, was settled by many yidden, Rav Rivlin (his grandson is Ruby in the Knesset)was a prominemt rav of the kehilla. The meah sharim of old has no representation in todays place, they behaved like menschem with unbelievable hakatoras hatov to be living in the city of gold.
The many comments approving this kind of behavior makes me fear for the future of klal yisroel. But I guess it’s really no surprise.
“I suggest you take a look at yourself and do a little soul searching and maybe then you will come to terms why these people feel it necessary to act the way they do. It has nothing to do with power. It has to do with standing up to the Torah and morality”. Rav Mechel you are rewriting history, a favorite in the literary world of today. They act like this – due to no chinuch in hashkafas hachaim, and lots of excess hormonal testestornes. This is not kedusha, this is hooligans that bring dirt to hashems torah.
Do you realize that this is exactly what muslims do while enforcing their beliefs? their called terrorists.
It’s OK to talk Lashon Harah about these people who you portray as “tzionim”? Where is the double standard? A bus is not alowed to have an ad on it? Perhaps the photos should be forwarded to the police department so these punks can be apprehended and sent to prison where they belong. Shouldn’t these guys be at work or in Yeshiva not outside waiting to see what kind of trouble they can make?
to all you eho don’t live in Meah Shearim and/or didn’t grow up there and is unaware of what has been done and what is being done in public and behind the scenes for the last seventy years to deal with community issues as well as all the issues and fights that have evolved there during that time:
BUD OUT and continue worrying about your own community and it’s yiddishkeit and chinuch.
leave meah shearim alone and let them deal with it themselves
“who gave these reshoyim the rght to practice gezailah bfarheisah berabim????!!!!
As far as i am concerned this was an outright violation of halachah.”
I always find it amusing how everyone knows when yenim is breaking halacha. I mean come on what you wrote wasnt Motzei Shem Ra. WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF FIRST!
Kudos to #15 you are right on the money. Perfect analogy.
who says that the only 2 options are: 1- reacting in a wild way, or 2- supporting it?
there’s happy medium as well, a.k.a. normalcy.
you go to the one in charge of placing the ads on the bus and nicely explain to them that it’s inappropriate for a bus to ride in such an area. If they don’t listen, … dunno. But @least try.
The advertising industry follows the principles of Edward Bernays, the “father of Propaganda and Public Relations.”
Bernays was a nephew of Sigmund Freud, and it was Bernays who actually popularized Freud’s theories of human behavior and taught the advertising world how to make use of these theories in motivating people to buy products.
A key principle of Freudian advertising is to exploit the lowest animal nature of Mankind in creating a desire for a product–the sleazier, the better.
In a decent society, such as the United States used to be, such trash would be illegal, and those who peddled it would be arrested and sent to jail for corrupting the morals of society, especially vulnerable young children.
But, “Hakesef YaAne Es HaKol”–Big money talks loudly! So this slimy creature, Bernays, and his Corporate clients, gradually influenced the Government to cast aside all moral standards and allow this unadulterated filth to permeate the public spaces.
Secular Israel prides itself on imitating everything American–including this garbage.
I say bravo to the Yidden who had the guts to protest this filth entering the Holy precincts of Meah Shearim in the Holiest City in the world. They removed a Tzelem Behaichol!
In my experience, living in Meah Shearim for two years: Many of these acts are carried out by American boys passing through Meah Shearim during their Shanah. If it wasn’t, it was probably someone (young) who everyone considers a vilde chaya.
Without getting into this specific dispute, is it Chilul or Kidush Hashem (which each case may be different), it should be pointed out that American yidden who didn’t live a few years in EY, don’t have a clue about the social and judicial system there, and think everything can be worked out politically. They also think outside the Chareidi camp everyone is basically polite and law minded people.
To the avrage Israeli High School graduate this is child play…
nameless, Eretz Yisroel has Kedusha that is unique to it.
Nevertheless, if we could prevent the violation of halacha anywhere, then kol hakovod.
kudos to the guys ripping off the ads, it is time for the establishment to learn to respect the sensibilities of the people
Maaseh Rav: Around twenty years ago there were very inappropriate ads being posted at bus stops and askanim got arrested for tearing them down. It turned into a whole big political issue. Such offensive ads were actually illegal, though the laws weren’t enforced until the Minchas Yitzchak and R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zatzal, made a joint announcement that if the ads didn’t stop they would go out together to tear them down, let themselves be arrested, and then let the police deal with the multitudes of their followers who wouldn’t tolerate seeing their leaders held in jail. Faced with that scenario, the authorities decided to stop allowing the ads.
I’m curious what a posek would say about this issue – even though Israel is a mere pathetic We’re-European-too State that hates the Torah and its teachings, I still don’t see the heter to deface/destroy someone else’s property.
As we know, the ends don’t justify the means, or, more precisely, a Mitzva HaBaah BaAveirah is an Aveirah. This means that if you damage someone’s property in order to strengthen fulfilllment of lo sikrivu or whatever else, you have been over an Averiah, not mikayeim a Mitzvah.
So what’s the solution if you can’t touch the buses and their ads and your kids will see whatever ads the Zionists put there? It doesn’t really matter, since that’s your problem, but maybe walk with your kids on your left where they can’t see the buses to your right. I’m sure some brilliant Jewish mind, somewhere, can come up with a good solution.
why the negative heading? “meah shearim style”
i was once in traffic on malchei yisroel and the bus in front of us had an inapropriate ad and a yershalmi came and ripped it down
Pritzus tearers we love you!!!!!!!!!!!!! And Iam a college professor, who luves kidusha
When Muslims do this in non-Muslim areas it would be called terrorist activity. But, when their clergy say some behavior is unacceptable, and their people inforce it in their own communities, no fair person has a right to object. We each have a right to keep out own communities safe from what WE believe, is wrong.
Just like the Legal rulings on Porn in the US. It is all according to community standards.
Well, no matter what the history of the community is, Meah Shearim is currently a Chareidi Community, and they DO have the right to keep what they believe is trash out of their community.
Just like KJ has a right to their tznuis rules, and other communities have similar rules.
If you open a store in a chr**tian community, in many parts of the country, and are open Sunday morning, you are likely to get closed down. Yet you will not call THEM terrosits! They are keeping their community the way they like it. Preventing it from downsliding into what they call depravity or evil, or whatever word is appropriate.
Do we Torah Observant Jews not deserve the same consideration, and not be likened ot terrorists just for doing the same thing?
Oh, but you say in the US, is those communities, they would not do it by force….
Well, that is correct. But they are able to pass laws that will allow them to do it gently with police, courts, fines, and other legal means.
However, our brethren in Meah Shearim are not protected by laws. The Golus country they live does not give them the right to religious freedom or any way halachakly to use the court system to accomplish their goals.
This is the only method left to them.
I guess we all need to learn from this Meah Shearim – Style of solving problems, instead of being so passive and allowing evil to permeate our communities.
We have turned into such a passive society. What happened to our ability to fight for what is right. We used to do it. But, there are no Chashmonaim today… or rather very few.
Maybe we NEED to open our mouths, and let people would are not dressed tziusdik, that we are offended by their dress, and that we believe that dress in inappropriate.
Yet, we remain silent, then complain on these blogs. Stop complaining here, and get moving. Move into action. Do it politely, but get off your computer chairs and become activists (not terrorists) for Hashem.
I believe # 31 and 46 have made very valid points. Are any of the self righteous judges, who can decide just how terrible others are, able to give a level-headed response?
I wonder if the same guys that ripped the ad have an Internet connection (referraing to another YW article)
Re: #42 – do these guys look like american yeshiva guys … stop looking for other scapegoats and admit to the fact that what these people have done is wrong. Whether it is an overall reflection of a “meah shearim mentality” is another issue entirely … how can one make justifications for something that is clearly wrong?
#43
“To the avrage Israeli High School graduate this is child play…”
Just to add if I may. Certain state schools have even had police substations installed!
Just to add if I may. Certain state schools have even had police substations installed!
I guess it alleviates some of the pain of our failure, when we claim those Meah Shearim guys are just as bad.
#26 (Fillyfrum)
has a very good point. Why knockk other Yidden? There are all types of israelis. Charedim, Mizrachi, and Tzionim. The tzionim aren’t telling the Charedim how to advertise the latest Shas that might come out. Why are we telling them?
Yeshivish Hocker – enough with the constant putting down. I have relatives who live near meah Shearim, and he told me that he never even saw the bus. it sounds to me like some people look for these things just to stip up trouble.
The Zionists just want to spread their tumah. The possuk in the end of parshas Kedoshim tells us “Velo sakey ha’aretz esschem.” The Zionists element pretends as if this does not exist. Whatever the Zionist element decides it wants to be the reality is their reality. If the Zionist element decides that Arafat is a peaceful person then, according to them, he wants peace, regardless of the facts. We should not copy their ways. Just because we do not like something that the Zionist element does does not neccesarily mean that we have the right to cause damage to the Zionist element’s property. There are halachos involved. Whatever the halachah is then that is how we should act. What we want the halachah to be is not what the halachah is. DO NOT ACT LIKE THEM!
All those opposed to the Torah laws on tzinius, all your ranting will not slow down these Jewish heroes. You will accomplish nothing, as these true keepers of the Torah flame stand up and stomp out any shmutz attempted to be dumped in their midst.
Don’t waste your breath.
#35 and #36 – I disagee. the taliban and terrorist types would not stop at ripping the signs down, they would pull the driver and slit his throat, they would then go to the bus company and bomb the bus company. please don’t compare Yidden to the sub-human taliban and terrorists.
DM, note the irony that, as you say, our brethren in Meah Shiarim live in a golus country, yet, a mere paragraph later, you write that everyone should rise up and protest, etc, which is the failed policy of those very same ones who run that country.
Just to counter your chashmonaim angle, the militant baryonim in the time of the Romans didn’t do very well for klal yisrael when the rabbanim told them to, intead, make peace, either. Eis lichal cheifetz…
But, as I commented above, this is all besides the point. If there is a law that you can’t open on Sundays, then it’s just too bad if you had wanted to open on Sundays. Don’t like it? Live somewhere else. If the law is that bus ads may depict “objectionable” content, then it’s just too bad if you don’t want to see that. Don’t like it? Move somewhere else.
Chilul Hashem and Gezel, etc. are Issurei diOraysa, too. And, anyways, nobody is forcing you to see bus billboards.
I just now remember a shiur in one of the seforim of Rav Avigdor Nevenzahl shlitoh, the Rav of the old city. In it he discussed the attitude of some people who feel chilul shabbos shouldn’t be protested (NOT with stonethrowing)because of a “live and let live” attitude. He asked: if someone were to drive his car through your home window smashing and breaking items dear to you, will you also remain calm? 99% sure, you won’t. Why not? Because if it is yours, it hurts and you get angry. If you don’t feel the same for chillul Shabbos (or in our case about a display of pritzus), you show shabbos and tznius isn’t “yours”!
To all you guys that are calling them ganavim etc. As #31 pointed out the story in brachos of the amora that tore a red coat of a lady would you do all the name calling on an amora chas vsholom
I think what the editors meant by meah sharim style is the prevelant sense that charedim are entitled to be above the law.
Law and order is for the secular. We are allowed to take matters in our own hands. We will do want we want. I was just in a charedie neihborhood in Yerushalim. People spray-painted anti zionist slogans on residential buildings. I am against zionism but please have some respect your another persons property.
SPEAKING OF SPRAY PAINTING
The Na Nach sprayed their slogan on the ancient pillars in the cardo in the old city.
I am not joking. All four pillars are part of the Na Nach insanity. Think about the glee a zionist tour guide has explaining that this desecration of priceless artifacts came not from punks but from guys with peyos
it is a shame becase of a few nuts the whole precious community of meah shearim is considered crazy how many people were actively involved
My Rebbi Says Such leshonos are wrong!
Ganavim, lashon haroh, Worse than Idraeli high Schoolers, Zionists, Look like American yeshiva guys, Muslims, Non muslims, Chilul Hashem, Tumah, Pretty Sick, Unemployed, Animal like Behavior. Golly
Shalom Al yisroel!
#57 Gishmak in Lakewood
Dont be so harsh with Yeshivash hocker. Look at #30 and how important it is always to have shalom. I have forgiven yeshivish Hocker. Can You find it in your heart to do the same?
#64 I think you should stop classifying chareidim as a whole and let the editor justify his use of it. And like #65 writes, because of one or a couple of radicals who are “Lesheim Shomaim” you can’t classify the whole meah shearim. While we don’t condone acts of chillul hashem we still have to respect the many good deeds and the very special and choshuva people of meah shearim, and by criticising them as a whole you definitely will not make it a better world.
#66 I appriciate your comment.If youl look in the gemara in berachos 20A youl see he was fined by the goish goverment because she was a goite.
Why Couldnt the cops find those responsible ?? Just check out The Yeshiva World Photo Album !!!!
Gishmak in Lakewood, The tzionim dont tell us how to advertise our latest shas because we dont advertise it with not nice pictures! The disgraceful actions of the sinners of Zion shall come to an end with the speeding arrival of the great Messiah!(who knows maybe he’s in the above picture!)
You all miss the point. The reason the sign was inappropriate was because the bank pays interest which is Ribis and assur.
By the way, the guys who ripped off the sign are no longer learning, are unemployed and are looking for a job. If anyone has some appropriate positions open, please hire them.
Joseph,
The Kedusha is where the Shechina rests ,and thats with every Ben Torah no matter where he is on the globe!
But lets imagine the situation differently. Say for example a staunch Zionist, sans black velvet Kappel but with a kippah serugah would rip off posters in Mea Shearim which advocate bitter blood and hate between two groups of Chassidim, claiming that it represents Sinas Chinom, what type of song would you be singing then?
Actually “Rav Mechel” and all the others out there, isn’t it MORE important to worry about what the children are seeing at home? Do you help your wives with cleaning up after dinner? Do you offer to assist with the children at bedtime? Do you read to your kids? Do you always speak nicely to your wives and children? When you are out “learning” are you really learning or are you warming the bench with a nice cup of coffee in one hand, and the Internet in the other? It’s not the the ad was offensive and they ripped it down, it’s that it is a clear and clean double standard. People who are genuine torah yidden would never do such a thing, because they would honestly have never seen it. They look past such thing, and they concentrate on the good and pure in life, not on what they can do to cause strife and headlines.
Did the people who ripped the ad have any thought as to what they were teaching their children? Did they sit and discuss the ad with their children and then explain why they felt it was OK to break law, and tear something that did not belong to them?
It’s not clear cut, but it was a chillul hashem because everyone knows that it’s not the Christians that force religion and their “way” down others’ throat, it’s the Jews.
Christmas time, there are always groups that yell and scream that there are decorations up, but not Menorahs, there are groups that holler and yell about the “inappropriate” ads that stores have up in their windows. We live in GOLUS people, even in Eretz Yisroel, we are in GOLUS, and part of that means that we have to live by others’ rules, not necessarily our own. For goodness sakes, get a grip. If you don’t appreciate or like something, don’t look, and if you fear for your childrens’ safety and purity, then make sure you explain things to your kids, talk to them, and for g-d’s sake, PRACTICE what you PREACH.
The Amora in the Gemora may have been fined by the non-Jewish government for ripping the peritzus off that woman, but his actions are commended in the Gemora. The non-Jewish response is deemed irrelevant by the Gemora, and the Amora is nevertheless praised.
77
what about ‘dina malchuso dina’. Arent we obligated to follow and respect the non Jewish government laws? HOW coult the non Jewish response be deemed irrelavant in that case?
busher – sorry, my missunderstanding (I also apologize to david ladimore #35).
I guess both of you only meant the “NICER” members of the taliban or other terrorist organizations, and you were NOT trying to conjure up the stereotypical portrait of a taliban terrorists when referring to our brothers in Meah Shearim.
תלמוד בבלי מסכת ברכות דף כ עמוד א
אמר ליה רב פפא לאביי: מאי שנא ראשונים דאתרחיש להו ניסא, ומאי שנא אנן דלא מתרחיש לן ניסא? אי משום תנויי – בשני דרב יהודה כולי תנויי בנזיקין הוה, ואנן קא מתנינן שיתא סדרי! וכי הוה מטי רב יהודה בעוקצין האשה שכובשת ירק בקדרה ואמרי לה זיתים שכבשן בטרפיהן טהורים אמר: הויות דרב ושמואל קא חזינא הכא, ואנן קא מתנינן בעוקצין תליסר מתיבתא! ואילו רב יהודה, כי הוה שליף חד מסאניה – אתי מטרא, ואנן קא מצערינן נפשין ומצוח קא צוחינן – ולית דמשגח בן! – אמר ליה: קמאי הוו קא מסרי נפשייהו אקדושת השם, אנן לא מסרינן נפשין אקדושת השם. כי הא דרב אדא בר אהבה חזייה לההיא כותית דהות לבישא כרבלתא בשוקא, סבר דבת ישראל היא, קם קרעיה מינה; אגלאי מילתא דכותית היא, שיימוה בארבע מאה זוזי. אמר לה: מה שמך? אמרה ליה: מתון. אמר לה: מתון מתון ארבע מאה זוזי שויא.
nameless,
Ask the Amora from the Gemora why he was oiver the issur (in your apparent opinion) of dina d’malchusa.
Somehow I think the heilige Amora’s violating the laws of his country were far outweighed by the pritzus he was fighting by ripping it off that woman.
If you still have questions regarding this Gemora (and it is entirely reasonable for you to not understand the Gemora), I suggest you ask your husband to help explain it (and barring that, he can ask his Rebbe.)
Joseph,
Fine, I will ask him, now if you dont mind adressing my 74 post??? How would you react in the situation I
described?
1. Do the residents of Meah Shearim think that they are on the same level of holiness & understanding as that Amora? They cannot justify their actions using this anecdote.
2. I don’t understand this story – can someone help me out – the reason why we are told to refrain from wearing red clothing is because it is something that goyim wear. if this woman was a goy, then what was the problem with her getup? Am I missing an important detail?
83,
I dont think she was a goy!
According to #69, she was… (???)
nameless, I’d be happy to address 74. Yes, I’d applaud them regardless of who they are — assuming the hypothetical poster you described truly existed and indeed advocated hatred between any two Yidden.
Deliberately, If you don’t understand the story in the Gemora, you should not be so quick and tell the residents of Meah Shearim that it does not aply to them. This Gemora in fact comes as close as an analogy as any Gemora you’ll find in Shas to this incident in Meah Shearim. In fact, not only is this Gemora a close analogy of this incident, what the Amora in the Gemora did in response to the situation (ripping the dress off the woman) is a far more ”aggressive” action then what these Yidden in Meah Shearim did (ripping it off a bus.)
This whole buisness is getting out of hand.
Next time I go to Israel Ill be terrified to walk into any Charedei neighborhood for fear that they might rip the logo off my shirt cuz it has a picture of a horse which is not a kosher animal.
I think a lot of people have some growing up to do.
And I do forgive Yeshivish Hocker for his nonsense.
Oh, well then in that case its difficult to understand why it would be neccessary to rip off her dress. The inyan of tzniyus doesnt apply to a non Jewess.
Joseph, you may be right. I do not understand the gemara (not having gone to “ABC seminary” – see Out of the Mailbag – LOL) and so I probably should not have said that.
BUT can you please reply to my 2nd piece in #83?
One of the sheva mitzvos bnei noach is that they should have a set of laws and courts to enforce them. It is common sense amongst all mankind that having modesty laws is prerequisite for any society. So even non-Jews are subject to dressing appropiately in public.
Can someone post the ad? i need to see if its appropriate or not
#83
He mistook her as a Jewess
Which of course reiterates the point that the Gemora commends the Amora for his ”zealotry” in defending society from pritzus. (Even though he was fined by the non-Jewish authorities.)
Ahhh, Joseph, I am not sure if you are aware of this or not… but we are not living in the times of the Gemorah, and there is not ONE person on this Internet (let’s at least be honest with ourselves here) who is on the Madreygah of the yiddin living in the times of the gemorah, and frankly, if we are ALSO being honest with ourselves, let’s at least admit that the ripping of the ad was done to CAUSE a commotion, not to make a point about pritzus, because the fact that it made the news here, as it did, shows that there was no thought about tznius or any modesty of any sort. IF that was the case, then it would have been done differently, and without media attention.
This story gets more & more confusing to me as each comment contradicts the one before… I’ll leave it to the men.
Thanks for trying, guys
If the denizens of Meah Shearim are so offended by the advertisements on the Egged busses, that they feel it necesary to resort to vandalism, there there is a very simple solution. Egged should stop servicing Meah Shearim. After all, the added burden on the residents of the holy enclave is but a small price to pay to secure the sanctity of their neighborhood.
Joseph,
How can you compare these average ‘Joe Schmos’ in Mea Shearim to the Amoroyim?
What an incredible marketing ploy!!
The marketing for team for Bank Yahav really came up with something here.
They place an ad that they know will be viewed as offensive to the Meah Shearim community (which doesn’t take much). Then, they get all the FREE publicity that the newspaper generates.
I live here and the ad has pictures of woman and men all in a large group prety decently dressed.
However,
The Gedolim of the previous generation in Yerushalayim were asked if the “fanatics” like some pple call them should be stopped- the answer was that Yidden can only exist if there are such type of people around as well.
We need some of everyone to exist!
That is because the Gedolim recognize acting as the Amora acted in the Gemora is in the interests of Torah, Yiddishkeit, and Tzinius (even if we aren’t on the same madreiga as the menora, we can emulate them as much as possible.)
I am just a simpleton, but I have a question.
The Amora was protesting the lack of tzinius, then why would he rip off what she was wearing to cause a greater lack of tzinius?
101,
Thanks, I didnt have the courage to ask that question, I am happy you did! Does anyone have an answer?