Deputy Education Minister was quick to respond to remarks made by MK Moshe Gafne in a Haaretz interview, in which he stated, “The Palestinians were here before us – we removed them from here”.
Porush had quite a different viewpoint for his party colleague, stating “Perhaps Gafne came after the Palestinians. I am here for eight generations. All of his embracing of the left-wing is puzzling, annoying and useless. I told him that already at the faction meeting a week ago”.
Adding to Gafne’s critics is the chairman of the Lehava organization, Bentzion Gupstein, who stated, “Gafne proves that the Torah is current and that there have always been spies in rabbinical garb”, opting to make reference to this week’s Parsha, Shelach.
Gafne responded to Porush angrily, explaining “It happens over and over again with Porush. He is critical of my words, the words of Degel Hatorah and that of Maran Rav Shach ZT”L and he did not hear my address. I said without acknowledging the Torah, we have no claim and no right to Eretz Yisrael. I had enough of Porush criticizing me. If he doesn’t know how to speak he should refrain from doing so”.
(YWN – Israel Desk, Jerusalem)
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14 Responses
You have to take Gafni’s words in context, and I think he’s 100% right. According to YWN these are the two statements:
“The first important thing is that the State of Israel be a Jewish state, otherwise we have no right to conduct negotiations with the Palestinians – they were here before us, we removed them from here”
“If we do not have the historical right that the Jewish people have here, we have no rights.”
The explanation is, That the arabs were living in the area for hundreds of years. Even though they were nomads or wild tribes, they were physically in the area. What then gives us a right to settle the land, in many cases, removing arabs from their villages and towns?
The only right we have to the country is as a Jewish nation. We receive that right in the Torah. Therefore, we have to build it up as a Jewish country. Read into that, that we must keep the things that makes us unique as Jews. Shabbos, Kashrus, Sanctity of marriage according to halacha.
If not, what right do we have here more than the arabs? If the Torah gave us the right to be here, we have to respect it, or lose that right.
Without any comment on the story above – the book “The Palestinian Triangle” written by a British historian states that at the turn of the 20th Century, Palestine was a deserted country with only around 20,000 Arab inhabitants.
The huge amounts of Jewish funds channeled into the country lead to a development of the infrastructure, which made it a desirable place to live – so much so that Arabs from the surrounding countries poured in. For every Jew who made aliyah, 3/4 Arabs came to the country.
So the fact that there were so many Arabs in the country in 1948 is largely due to the development of the country in the early 20th Century, largely if not mainly funded by international Jewish philanthropy.
Geordie,
Your toirelech aside, please read your history.
The majority of Arabs living in at least the Jerusalem area are rather new inhabitants, having arrived there during the British Mandate. For several reasons, one of them being ( believe it or not), because of an impending Jewish State, immigrated there from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and other Gulf states. Shenanigans between the Brits and French over control over the territories also moved masses of Arabs into the Jerusalem area and beyond, so the indigenous Arab peoples were far fewer than in the ’30s, say. Are you aware that in Jerusalem at the turn of the century, the majority of inhabitants were Jewish?
If you’re going to say Torah, then kindly stick to the facts. Midvar Sheker Tirachak is a d’Oreiseh.
Just wanted to clarify that Arab immigration into British Mandate Palestine extended even as far as Haifa.
No, the Palestinians ran and thereby admitted defeat.
Gafne is 100% right. Prush is taking crass cheap political shots at a colleague. Yes, Porush’s family may have been in Eretz Yisrael for 10 generations but he is from the extreme minority of yidden currently living in Eretz Yisrael most of whom immigrated post 1947. At the time of the Balfour declaration Arabs outnumbered Jews by 6 to 1 in what is now modern-day Israel. Many Arabs were forced (or chose to flee) during the war of Independence. Gafne is stating a historical fact. While it is true that Jews lived in EY during the times of the Bais Hamikdosh but once we were sent into golus the Jews in Eretz Yisrael were always a minority. Gafne should be applauded for having the courage to say the truth even when most of his voters and supporters probably wish to deny it.
Hey crazykanoiy,
There would never have been a problem with Arabs had their radical leadership accepted the boundaries laid down by international agencies, there would have been peace Jew side-by-side with Arab. But this little piece of truth which is known to fair minded people all across this vast universe , is a bone in your throat and your like-minded buddies. Because you hate Eretz Yisroel, you guys have lied, revised and defamed this Holy Land and continue to blaspheme .
Ironically, this is the week parsha of Shelach, the tragic story of how great gedolim handpicked by Moshe Rabbeinu betrayed their mission, betrayed Am Yisroel and betrayed Hashem.
Your am -haaratzishe arguments pale before their gaonic ones, yet the whole gang of you are comrades-in-lashon hara.
My unsolicited advise to you haters:
Watch your language.
Zion Gate: Even if your point is correct regarding Arab leaders rejecting UN boundaries is accurate it still doesn’t change the fact that “The Palestinians were here before us – we removed them from here”” So the statement of Gafne is accurate and correct.
Zion Gate: Who hates Israel? Historical facts are not hatred. Mature discussion requires coming to terms with facts that you may find uncomfortable without engaging in childish denials and name calling. America expelled Native Americans. All Americans know that and most still love America.
The Palestinians were aggressors against us when there was a division of the land, but Hashem hardened their hearts and they failed to negotiate thinking that they would later win the land by an aggressive war. So they lost.
Crazykanoiy,
OK, show us the historical facts and document when, where and how many were removed. There some minor examples,and you wish to dwell solely on these.
Did you see comments above about the supposed Palestinian inhabitants? THESE ARE the facts, and yours are the mistaken denials. Your shita reflects one that feels sorry for the Palestinians at the expense of our own people. You and I both know which shita this is. It’s a toxic, lying shita. You ignore the expelling of Jews with only pajamas on their bodies from Arab lands. You are not concerned in the least about THIS historical fact.
On top of that, Hashem brought us back to EY after 2,000 years and to deny this modern day miracle is kfirah.
The historical facts also include removal and murder of the 7 Nations by Yehoshua.
Are you comfortable with THESE historical facts?
Our mazal is not Native Americans nor Tutsies, or which people were removed by Pilgrims, Mongols or Brits.
THis is our land , we are back, we are growing by leaps and bounds .
Cherrypick your historical facts all you want…. We are back..
BTY… Gafne pops up here and there to get his 15 minutes, with his sour face. Spare us, please.
FACT:
Thousands of Arabs left their homes 1947-49 for reasons, ranging from calls from their leaders to get out of the way of advancing armies, to being told that they will come back triumphant, to fearing being caught in crossfire and because…. as readynow says, Hashem was in the picture, making our enemies run from our land. Only a minute amount were forced to leave.
The Israel Proclamation of Independence , May 14, 1948 also invited the Palestinians to remain and become equal citizens.
Unfortunately, many of our own people have bought in to the Arab canards and are even pushing this narrative in their bulletins, websites, pashkevillin, droshes tzetlachs, and other blabberei.
Zion Gate:
1) “show us the historical facts and document when, where and how many were removed” – The historical accounts of how the IDF expelled the inhabitants of Lyyda and Ramle are quite accessible to all. The displacement or Arabs during the War of Independence is very well documented. Testimony of Arab civilians and IDF personnel corroborate the facts that transpired and dispel the myth that the Arabs left by their own free will.
2) “You ignore the expelling of Jews with only pajamas on their bodies from Arab lands. You are not concerned in the least about THIS historical fact.” I do not ignore these facts this nor am I unconcerned about them. However, the expulsion of Jews from Arab lands has nothing to do with the veracity of MK Gafne’s comments and as such is irrelevant to the topic of this thread. Please try to refrain from hyperbole and throwing around baseless accusations.
3) “n top of that, Hashem brought us back to EY after 2,000 years and to deny this modern day miracle is kfirah” I do not deny the yad Hashem involved in much of Klal Yisrael returning to EY but if somebody did deny it which ikkar emunah would he be denying. Why would it be kefirah? Terms like Kefirah and Apikorsus should not be thrown around lightly.
3) “Cherrypick your historical facts all you want…. We are back..” No one is cherry picking anything. Bravado and macho sounding comments do not change the historical record.
4) “FACT:” Writing fact in all caps doesn’t make something a fact.
They ran. And they planned to outwit us later by devious ways instead of staying and negotiating in the first place by agreeing with the subdivision, not that the subdivision was correct because the whole land belongs to us.